Disenchant option 3.3 a bad thing for enchanters?Follow

I wouldn't mind as much if it was BoP only gear that had the disenchant option, but green BoE stuff shouldn't.

It simply gives everyone the craft now, and makes dust/essences ridiculously easy to get. Not to mention that if your server happens to have a low population of enchanters, the new LFG system will still kill your profits, as its across realms.

qft.

Every big enchanter spams trade with it

"Your mats, free..tips welcome! My pats, [insert price]"

You get to pick the price.


I like the feature. It means I don't have to pay you, the Disenchanter, your AH price for mats for me to get my Enchants.
And all that gear I win doesn't just get vendored for repair gold.

So, in essence, it seems from the opinions on this thread that the disenchant option is a bad thing for enchanters and good for non-enchanters.

Oh, and Iddigory, grow a pair. Going personal over a question is pure garbage.

It isn't a dead horse topic at all. The other topic was discussing what we thought would happen when the system went live, and now its actually gone live. To re-start a topic that is already 40ish posts in was much more inappropriate than starting another one.

And really, if you don't like repeating yourself, just don't?



You conveniently forgot the price of dragon's eye there Cheech. Its 100G+ for 10 minutes of work, and was still more when WoTLK came out.



A. Of course, the OP mentioned transmutes because he's really not discussing how much more difficult it will be to make gold with 3.3. He was really talking about transmuting for convenience.



Tailors can gather for themselves. Its not unique, but they can gather without a secondary profession. Also, its not like you can farm for mats with Enchanting any faster than you could as a non-enchanter, barring quest rewards and gear upgrades.



The cost to level enchanting is pretty high compared to some other crafts (like alchemy). You act as if greens are free to everyone and are worthless by themselves. Many fetch a pretty penny in the AH, and vendor costs must be considered as opportunity costs as well. Opportunity costs must be considered when leveling the craft. Just because I gathered the dust myself doesn't mean its free. If I use 3k gold worth of dust to level the craft and only receive 1k gold for the enchants I've made, then leveling the craft cost me 2k gold. For a guy who calls the OP stupid, you'd think basic economics wouldn't be that difficult to grasp. I guess your post was just a retarded rant. (and I don't even mean that to be offensive).

The only items a DEer gets to DE over others are quest rewards and gear upgrades, which aren't really the topic of the OP. Nor is the gold from it incredibly substantial when factoring in opportunity costs.

I didn't leave anything out. Most JC will be using their tokens for recipes, and only buying DEs when they need them for themselves or no longer need anymoe. That's a huge time investment (even if you aren't getting them all).

And I tried selling one once to test how it would work. I had to post it 3 times before it sold, and mine was the cheapest I ever saw up. Don't remember if there was a deposit cost on it, but 100G in 7 days isn't anything to brag about.

And, again, it meant getting recipes slower.



I say bull. His whole OP was about how this change was a huge blow to his bank account. Daily and mats are both relevant to money-making. If he was arguing that they should get one for convenience (because being able to make enchants for all 8 of your own slots isn't food enough) than he didn't bother to make that point.



Tailors gather cloth, which is an item that is still usable by every other class through the first-aid skill. Furthermore, this isn't relevent. Because EVERYONE can gather and sell cloth.

The point is that Enchanters get exclusive rights to their mats, when no other craft does. And they still need the enchanting ones for many of their recipes. If I'm a JC, I need to take mining or buy from a miner to prospect/make jewelry. That's the closest we get, but getting epic gems from other sources (that anyone can use) is cheaper, anyway. Rare gems we have a slight advantage on from our daily CD, but that's still random--you can end up with 15 G from a 40G investement, easily.

Enchanters get their "gathering" skill built in, and no other profession does. They all have to work with the economy. Enchanters got to control theirs for a long time (mat/enchant prices dropping was the fault of enchanters, no one else). Now, they have to engage the economy, like everyone else. They don't get to run a heroic, sell the mats, and get them traded back to make an item +tip anymore. A player actually has more options.

This makes it more equal with other professions. Still not perfect, but the only real option if they aren't going to make DE a separate sub-skill (which they, realistically, should).



The cost is way lower if you compare them to most crafts without the relevant gathering profession (which you HAVE to do if you want to compare them without bias). JC? Have fun when your only way to level up requires Titanium, high-level gems, and Frozen Orbs (not to mention the atrocious treck up). Same with most others. Mats are VERY expensive on the AH when you need a lot, and there is no way to get them without the gathering skill.

Enchanting has their skill built in. And it is VERY cheap to level if you aren't an idiot. Bid, don't buyout, unless the BO is low. You can easily get mats that will bring you up to the top tiers cheaply (and you'll probably make money from leftovers). Plus, you can make some scrolls now, to sell on the AH. They won't be awesome money, no, but it's better than most other professions (minus Inscription) can do while leveling. Especially if you can get something like +4 stats to chest, which sells for 200+G on my server.

Furthermore, every greed roll you won in an instance up till now was high profit or mats for you. For me, that was some vendor gold to cover repairs. I didn't get JC mats, either.

The enchanter could turn a 10G vendor item into a 40G abyss crystal. Were you GUARANTEED it? No, but you could. And the DE option was born of enchanters taking advantage of groups in order to increase their odds for mats. 4 epic drops, top 4 rolls get an abyss crystal? Much better odds to get yourself one when no one could get two epics.

This change is completely fair. If anything, it is a chance for enchanters to increase their profit margins.

A. Stop offering your services for optional tips. If you forced players to buy off AH, they would.
B. Stop dropping enchant prices. It's hard to get them back up due to tipping (this goes with any profession).

Simple. The crafters are to blame for their own lower prices.

This is how I make all my cash. I have an AH disenchanter on both the Horde and Alliance on my server. I was concerned that the supply of greens in the AH would be decreased. I have not seen that to be the case. I'm just as busy as always. I am not seeing a decrease in my income.

I'm ok with the change. In fact, I've been disappointed that an enchanter hasn't been in the groups I've been in. I'd like to use the de option too.

Edited, Dec 11th 2009 7:23am by dadanox

Not any more than it did before. You still aren't getting items if they win the Greed roll.

It does reduce your chance of an Abyss Crystal per run, but that's it. Everything else remains equal.

Enchanters have been double dipping for ages.

Let's assume for a moment that pre-3.3, Joe Blow never had a D/E alt or friends to D/E for him. Let's pretend that for the average player without Enchanting, their only source for mats was the auction house.

Enchanter wins.

Said average player tracks down an enchanter to get their enchant done and tips.

Enchanter wins.

Let's say the player getting the enchant done is a cheap monkey and doesn't tip. Enchanter still wins. He got the gold from the mats.

There still needs to be an enchanter in the group for the D/E function to work. If there's no enchanter in the group (or there is but their skill isn't high enough to D/E the items in question), the D/E function is grayed.

The real question is whether or not this function is creating an increase in the supply of enchanting mats such that it will create a significant drop in prices, and it's too early to tell whether or not that is the case.

My sense, however, is that it's not. Enchanters whining about this feature need to get over themselves and realize they're not the only enchanters on their realm, and that people have been getting their stuff D/E'd outside of dungeons for ages.

The balance has certainly shifted in my server and Abyss Crystals are selling for 30% less than they were before 3.3 hit. That's 4 days after the release of the patch prices have taken a dive.

As for changes in patterns of conduct regarding getting an enchant ... obviously some stuff has changed on the supply front so you should also expect changes in demand (all those unenchanted alts ... ) or you would think overnight enchanters of the world would unite and raise their fees, but you forget our dear friend John Nash (google it if you are not friends with him yet), which is why I doubt you'll be able to charge high fees for any enchant any time soon. In fact the ones I charge most for are the BC ones, of which I have a few.



Simple, you are wrong. You have no idea about economics but, hey, keep being ignorant and call others "butthurt" the new elite wordz used in epix threads.

I've spotted a little niche market on my server, so I'm going to see if it's worth it cornering it for a bit, doubt it, but worth a try for fun.

The original point I was trying to make in the thread was not about fairness or unfairness, I was merely pointing out that half of an enchanters "trade" used to come from their monopoly on enchanting matts. The new change is of course welcome for 90% of the wow population, so it might be so that it's a good adjustment. Furthermore Blizzard has been trying to make professions equal in both their (stat) benefits and, to some extent, their gold making potential, though I'd say that at this later they have failed as most crafting professions suck at making gold.

The other big gold maker in my server, JC, is feeling the pinch a little too, for a different reason, after a crazy 3.2, funny that, so I guess we're mostly on the same boat, which is they way it should be I guess.

Just let go Iddigory. Wow economy follows the same principle as real world economy when left to its own: supply and demand. You seem not to understand it, which is why you suggest trying to form a cartel or the such (look it up, google is your friend).



Right here, fundamental lack of understanding of it. Let me explain it to you, I think it's necessary. To be able to "*****" players, one player needs to have a firm enough hold of the market. That is, to control a large enough part of the supply (or demand, but that's not the case at all ehre) side of the market. A single player can not do that in MOST scenarios, rather sees a market, tries to make a profit out of it, usually (gross generalization) by going a little bit lower than the lowest tender for equal goods, which brings the price closer to the "fair market value" of said service or product.

You, however, suggest that somehow enchanters should modify their conduct in order to exert a higher price for their enchants, which is both, unrealistic and the very deffinition of "S·C·R·E·W·I·N·G" players. Good God, such a beautiful contradiction.

Will there be a change in the economy? One is already happenning. How will that pan out? Enchanting was THE proffesion in TBC, and has been a rather profitable one until 3.3, with current changes, I should think the supply side of matts will go down in the form of there being less enchanters due to some people switching to other, more profitable or more "exciting" proffesions.



Edited, Dec 12th 2009 8:34pm by LGarth

Conversely, chanters still only need one profession to level chanting, meaning that they can easily pick up mining or herbalism or skinning to farm gold with.

Personally, as someone with a chanter toon, I'm lovin this - got a crap load of mats gathered on my other toons that I never would have gotten without this as well as saving me the time of mailing the greens back to my chanter and having to DE them.

I do agree that we got ripped as far as not having a daily and not having all that much in the way of new options for LK though - my mage just dinged 80 and I discovered just how sucky a spread of chants I really had to buff her gear with.

while I agree with you that this is how enchanters make gold, I'll still tell you that you are wrong. 100% wrong.

If I had to rely on drops from grouping, I'd be a very poor disenchanter. Anyone who thinks that there are more greens in dungeon drops than in the AH is delusional. Anyone who thinks "all your unwanted greens, blues, and purples belong to me" is megamaniacal and should be removed from the group post-haste.


If you can't find items to disenchant at a profit other than by going into instances, you haven't been doing it right. If you don't know how to get cheap stuff from the AH, then you are stupid. I was trying to find a different, less confrontational word to describe your position, but I couldn't. "stupid" it is.

Edited, Dec 15th 2009 7:00pm by ohmikeghod