Profession unfairness in groupsFollow

I'm a little tired of the profession unfairness in group activities. Why is it that enchanters get the shaft when it comes to instances, raids, etc? If something drops (blue or purple) and nobody wants it, why do they all get to roll on the enchanter's disenchanted mats from it? It's not the enchanter's fault the others didn't want it.

If this is how things are staying, then I demand that we all roll on herbs, mined minerals, skins, etc. from other professions, if gathered in an instance or raid. It's unfair. If people don't like the idea, then how about everybody just rolls on all drops, if nobody wants them? This way they can sell the item to a vendor for some gold, while if an enchanter wins the roll, they get to disenchant and keep the mats they get.

I'm seriously thinking of just holding onto any shards I get from disenchants in an instance/raid.

As an Enchanter, I love getting Blues for DE'ing.. but I'd never Need it over others Greeds, or expect them to pass. We are doing it to save money, whereas they could use it to sell for Repairs, to save money.
Either way people win.

But if you win the greed.. the disenchants are 100% yours. Period.

Even as an enchanter I agree the current way of doing things makes perfect sense. Everyone killed the boss you all have right to the blue that drops. So either you all greed and if you win you get the shard if they win they sell. The other option is everyone passes and the DE takes it to DE and then the shards are rolled on. The enchanter has the same chance to get a shard either way.

Then you have herbs and mining there is no way a non miner or herbalist can get these thus only the people who can get the item roll. This is normally the case when there are multiple miners or herbalist they all roll for it.

See its all based on who can actually get the item on who gets to roll for it. Blues or purps anyone ore or herbs the respective proffecsions. All you are doing is converting the blue or purple to an item they can AH.

Sadly this isn't the first time this exact topic has come into the forums. The fact is and has been stated in other posts, if you don't want to DE something for a group, don't say at the beginning that your an enchanter, or if they armory you just tell them up front that you don't DE for groups.

There is nothing written in stone anywhere that as an enchanter when you're in a PUG that you have to always DE the non-wanted blues that drop randomly. Now if it were a guild run, then of course the guild rules would apply and that would be that if blues drop that no one wants, they either go straight to the guild bank, or get DE'd for mats.

Still the point as has been stated before, if you don't want to DE something, then just make sure that everyone knows that up front.

Because that mining node is worthless if there’s no miner, whereas those BoP items, if not sharded, can be sold for gold. For lots of gold, in the case of weapons…in fact, some blue BoP weapons vendor for more on my server than a dream shard.

Sharding costs you nothing and increases the group’s overall profit, which means that you get a reputation as a nice guy. You can also hope for the occasional tip; certainly I always tip the enchanters who shard for me. Or, as others have said, you could just keep quiet and disenchant the items you win in greed rolls if you really don’t want to help others out. But please don’t gripe to people that you should get to keep more BoP items than them because you’re an enchanter. Nobody likes a grasper.

I don't think that's the complaint. I think it's simply the fact that the group would have BoP vendor trash if nobody could use the gear that dropped, and a lot of people would pass on said vendor trash just by virtue of the fact that it's...vendor trash. But all of a sudden someone can turn said BoP item into a BoE that everyone could use towards enchanting their own gear or sell on auction and it's communal property.

Keeping in mind my first level capped toon was my hunter, who is an enchanter. I D/E'd many things for groups when she was my main and it was never a big deal for me to hand over the shards to people who won the rolls. Also keep in mind that I don't remember the last time I rolled on a shard. I only mention these to things to set aside any accusations that my opinion is based on any sort of greed or inclination towards self-indulgence.

Having said that, the logic doesn't hold up. The justification people offer for retaining shards as communal property pending a roll is because a) the enchanter couldn't have gotten the drop if they weren't in the group, ergo the group helped them get it and are therefore entitled to a shot at the rewards and b) if the enchanter didn't D/E the item, everyone would have at least had a shot at a BoP blue to vendor.

Justification (a) in particular doesn't hold up, because any other resource nodes (herbs, mining nodes, skinnable corpses, etc.) are typically in farther than most people would consider trying to get to solo. Consequently, they couldn't have gotten to those nodes (or killed the skinnable mobs on their own) without the group.

Justification (b) has some merit to it, simply because if there's no miner in the group, the mining nodes are worthless to said group. It's not like anyone else can pick up the entire node and vendor it. There have been people in the past who have argued that enchanters who won't D/E for the group are selfish yadda yadda yadda, and that doesn't hold up either. In most cases (especially level 75+/heroic dungeons), the value of the shard is almost always greater than the vendor buyback price on blue armor. Sometimes it's even higher than the vendor buyback on blue weapons. Either way, the enchanter is increasing the value of the BoP item, either by making it so that it will sell for more, or by saving the person who gets it the auction cost of that shard the next time they need one for an enchant.

And that's why it's sort of a contentious issue...if the enchanter were to get all BoP blues that nobody else wanted by default, the people handing over those items would be losing out at a shot at the vendor buyback value of those items so it's not like the enchanter was the only one who stood to benefit. On the other hand, the enchanter is adding value to the items (in most cases) when they D/E them to a shard, and consequently "expecting" an enchanter to add that value for free is not entirely fair, either.

The standard is that if you can D/E and want to, then that's what you do and everyone gets a fair shot to roll on the resulting shard(s) at the end of the run. If the concept/principle bothers you, you're under no obligation to announce that you're an enchanter. It's your toon, your time to level the profession...nobody else has any entitlement to force you to work that profession for nothing. We're not talking about nice/not nice, just straight up other people telling you what to do with your stuff. It's not kosher. You weren't invited to the group because of your profession, you were invited because of your class. I've never seen "LF1M <insert dungeon here> need enchanter."

You could try asserting some sort of procedure where you D/E all unwanted blues and get to keep 1 of the shards by default. Problem is, folks aren't used to that and they would probably think less of you for suggesting it. (Not saying they'd be right or wrong for doing so, just that's the response I would anticipate).

What about when the enchanter really does need the disenchanted materials? Like if they need Abyssal Crystals for an enchant they want to put on their own gear? Those are very expensive (on my server anyway). It's likely the other people would just sell it, while the enchanter needs it.

Anyway, I just ran through H HoS and never mentioned being an enchanter. Though the group asked with every drop, I said nothing and we all rolled. Luckily I did managed to win 1 of the drops. I think this will be how I do runs from now on, if I'm in need of the mats.

OMG total flashback....

so boards....lets bring up a 3 year old dead horse.
Do skinners get to keep the Pristene Hide of the Beast or do the 10 guys that ran UBRS all get an equal chance to roll on it becuase they helped get said skinner to be able to skin The Beast...
Ok discuse, i'm interested to reinvestigate this issue.

Nah, it's not fair. Does all the Frostweave go to tailors?

Edit: When I say "it's not fair" I mean that enchanters getting all the BoEs is "not fair." Everyone should have an equal chance to roll. The profit for being an enchanter is simply that the dust/essence/shard you get is worth more than simply selling the item to a vendor or on the AH.

Edited, Apr 6th 2009 4:47pm by LockeColeMA

Except you can never get the enchants you want off the AH. I would rather have the mats so I can have an enchanter make something for me (I am leatherworking/engineering, and I have a stack of shards on my character for any enchant I might need). As everyone else said, if you don't want people to roll on it don't offer. I realize it may not seem fair, but the mats for skinning/mining/herbalism are worth nowhere near as much as enchanting mats and not everyone can use them - I would argue that eveyone should be using enchanting mats to get the most out of their gear.

Usually when we have multiple disenchanted items from a run I suggest in group that we give one guaranteed shard to enchanter. It keeps them happy. While I don't think it's ok for them to need all shards but I feel that they should get something for their effort.

Frankly I have never encountered enchanter that would make a fuss over not getting any shards from run. Let's face it when we enter instance we do it mostly for gear drops/emblems/achievements. One can make much,much more money outside dungeon in half the time they spent on run. Making a drama over 10g (estimated value of shards on my server) is kinda weird.

It's just a social contract that we have. Enchanters DE not needed BoP for benefit of whole group. If group is decent they will find a way to thank enchanter for his service. If not, then it's no biggie I suppose. There are far worse things that can happen to You in a dungeon than a lost couple g from shards. Bad run can cost plate wearers 50g+ repair bill but i don't see people yelling for recuperation.

yes but if you didn't go i would still have something to vendor were if no minner herber or skinner goes then i get no item

If you can't afford to buy it and you are an enchanter, it's your own fault, because you know absolutely nothing about making gold. I have no sympathy for enchanters who have no idea on how to get rich in the game. I especially have no sympathy for enchanters who can't make money yet they post on this forum, where money-making advise for enchanters has been available for a long time.