I wanted to get a general consensus on something regarding what Jewel crafter's provide when making things.
The specific item in question is:
Dragon's Eye
It is used in some Northrend recipes such as this (where 4 are required) Titanium spellshock Ring
On our server the eyes cost an average of 230g each in the AH. If you have patience you can find them for as low as 199 gold by checking it often.
Do you consider it fair if a person wanting this ring or anything else using the eyes, sends all the mats except the dragon's eyes and expects the JC'er to provide them free of cost. For the main reason given as "Its only four dailies you have to do, and that is too expensive for me to buy"
I think its obvious which side I am on with my wording. I don't want to add any extra circumstances to this to confuse it, as there aren't really any. Right now its just that simple. Should the JC'er as a rule provide the Dragon's eyes with no compensation for them.
The JC'er is not getting paid or tipped for their time.
I hope that was clear. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking that there should be some compensation, or at least the gems provided since they are so readily available. Always trying to get different views here.
Thank you guys so much for anyone who gives input on this.
I am not the JC'er or a JC'er at all. But I'm concerned about something I'm seeing with a friend and the ugly debate that ensued.
Also, if there should be some compensation is there a standard price you charge for the "its just four dailies" part. (those dailies create one token which can then be used to buy the dragon's eye or saved to buy the jc patterns. The only other way I'm aware to get them is through the damaged necklace quest which is hit or miss on getting those randomly to drop... though I definitely could be wrong! so lead me in the right direction)
(i'm still working on the tooltip thing be patient)
--Beula--
edit: fixed a link
Edited, Feb 19th 2009 2:26pm by darkmoss
Edited, Feb 19th 2009 2:26pm by darkmoss
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JC: Dragon's eye compensation? advice/opinionsFollow
Quote:
Do you consider it fair if a person wanting this ring or anything else using the eyes, sends all the mats except the dragon's eyes and expects the JC'er to provide them free of cost. For the main reason given as "Its only four dailies you have to do, and that is too expensive for me to buy"
Wow, just wow - is this just one moron making this demand or several?
In that case, I guess I shouldn't have to provide frozen orbs because after all, its just one heroic run.
I shouldn't have to provide arctic fur because all that takes is killing an skinning a mob - its free.
Hell, why should I even bother providing any mats at that - the ore, gems and elemental items are all just a case of mining one or two nodes, the leather skinning, the herbs for pots just picking flowers - no point in paying for anything since its all free and its all just [simple fast task] to get the items.
So no - you do not give this F-N moron 800g worth of free mats because he's too cheap to buy them and 'its only four dailies' for you.
I'd run four dailies for my wife or daughter. I wouldn't run four dailies for my son-in-law, though. Much as I like him, he's not a blood relation, and he'd have to send me the eye. That really means that because my daughter is the jewelcrafter in our family guild he gets off scott-free. Even friends should have to pay for the components.
Thank you so much for the replies. I honestly thought this person was nuts but wanted some verification.
And Rusttle it caused me to break out in a rash of obscenties when I heard what was going on too.
It is one person who is asking this, with some agreeing.
I was hoping it wasn't the general train of thought *whew*.
And you wouldn't believe how many people have told me that arctic fur is "just some skinning" My left horn for more fur!
I don't mind helping out friends/family if I have the mats on hand but for strangers or acquaintances to expect it turns me into a very grumpy Tauren.
And Rusttle it caused me to break out in a rash of obscenties when I heard what was going on too.
It is one person who is asking this, with some agreeing.
I was hoping it wasn't the general train of thought *whew*.
And you wouldn't believe how many people have told me that arctic fur is "just some skinning" My left horn for more fur!
I don't mind helping out friends/family if I have the mats on hand but for strangers or acquaintances to expect it turns me into a very grumpy Tauren.
ohmikeghod the Venerable wrote:
I wouldn't run four dailies for my son-in-law, though.
I lol'd.
OP: A daily is a daily is a daily. More specifically, it's your friend's daily, and nobody else has any entitlement to tell him what he should or shouldn't be willing to do with the award from that daily. Period.
I was fortunate in that my guild has a very generous jewelcrafter who spent weeks doing the daily and contributing her Dragon's Eyes to make epic rings/necklaces for guildies at no cost (the expectation was that we would provide the rest of the mats). I offered her compensation for the eyes and she kindly declined...kudos to her and I very much appreciated her generosity, but had she requested payment up to market value on the eyes, I wouldn't have thought less of her at all.
A JC can do the daily and sell the eyes they get for a tidy sum, they can bank the eyes and make gear to sell for a tidy sum, or they can use the eyes to help guildies/friends gear up for heroics/raids. Regardless of what they choose to do with them, it's their choice. Personally, I think the going market price of Dragon's Eyes is unreasonable given how relatively easy they are for a JC to obtain. Had my guildie asked me to pay market value for the 4 she used to make my ring, I would have politely declined...not because she was doing anything wrong, but because 800-1200g for a ring I wound up replacing within a month wasn't worth it to me.
Anyone under any circumstances who thinks that they're entitled to dictate the value of someone else's property to them is a blithering idiot. If someone were to give me grief over something like that, they'd be on my ignore list in a heartbeat.
Have the idiot test his theory of free Eyes in the trade channel and see how many takers he gets.
/2 looking for JC to craft EPIC RING. My mats. You provide free dragon eyes. No tip.
/2 looking for JC to craft EPIC RING. My mats. You provide free dragon eyes. No tip.
Even though I'm well known for being a soft touch, even I would have laughed in that guy's face. I don't mind giving my friends free stuff, but even they would at least have the decency to ASK me for it (knowing full well that I'd be doing them a favour) instead of acting like it was nothing for me to farm mats while they leeched me dry :/
I appreciate the replies and suggestions.
He never asks for anything more than the mats (and usually he doesn't have to ask), and often provides them himself anyway. I find myself funneling eternals to him all the time for guildies rings so I know he's going out of pocket on these things to help them out. (I think he might be snorting the eternals to be honest)
I think in this situation the best thing to do is:
"I am sure you can find someone else to do it for you, good luck" followed by a chuckle.
--Beulah--
He never asks for anything more than the mats (and usually he doesn't have to ask), and often provides them himself anyway. I find myself funneling eternals to him all the time for guildies rings so I know he's going out of pocket on these things to help them out. (I think he might be snorting the eternals to be honest)
I think in this situation the best thing to do is:
"I am sure you can find someone else to do it for you, good luck" followed by a chuckle.
--Beulah--
Is it a guild mate? Does your guild provide mats back and forth between professions so as to move the guild forward? Has this guy sent you ore or other mats? Has he ever taken you on a run someplace where he didn't need anything?
I'd just like to add something to this discussion, as a JC. Yes, a token is easy to get by doing a daily. The drop rate on the dailies are incredibly high, making it even easier. Here's the problem though.
The only way I can buy JC designs is with those tokens. The design for the nice purple ring the OP linked costs six tokens. There are six of those nice purples - three rings and three necklaces, one each for tank, healer, dps. There are also designs for the JC-only cuts and they cost tokens, I'm thinking six but I may be wrong, and those gem cuts require a Dragon's Eye to make the gem. Then there are other designs for the blue gems and they also cost tokens - three each if I recall correctly. It will take me a loooong time to get all the designs, so I haven't put one Dragon's Eye on the AH.
Once JCs have all the designs they want and all the craftable items they want, there will really be nothing more to do with the Dragon's Eyes and the prices will drop. Blizzard chose to make it this way - that I can only do one daily to get one token to purchase designs that cost between three and six tokens. I have missed doing that daily only once and am not anywhere near having all the designs I want.
The only way I can buy JC designs is with those tokens. The design for the nice purple ring the OP linked costs six tokens. There are six of those nice purples - three rings and three necklaces, one each for tank, healer, dps. There are also designs for the JC-only cuts and they cost tokens, I'm thinking six but I may be wrong, and those gem cuts require a Dragon's Eye to make the gem. Then there are other designs for the blue gems and they also cost tokens - three each if I recall correctly. It will take me a loooong time to get all the designs, so I haven't put one Dragon's Eye on the AH.
Once JCs have all the designs they want and all the craftable items they want, there will really be nothing more to do with the Dragon's Eyes and the prices will drop. Blizzard chose to make it this way - that I can only do one daily to get one token to purchase designs that cost between three and six tokens. I have missed doing that daily only once and am not anywhere near having all the designs I want.
"the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
Hermann Goering, April 1946.
Hermann Goering, April 1946.
Thank you for your input cynyck, this is basically what I've been told by the two JC'ers I've asked. I think it is important for others to understand that.
also, I had a feeling these questions would come up and I wanted to avoid the distraction they could cause but they are important:
Is it a guild mate? Yes
Does your guild provide mats back and forth between professions so as to move the guild forward? Let me stop laughing first...no. I didn't want the conversation to tangent because of the guild thing. Our guild is totally unstructured and chaotic. We move. But it is more a crazy vibration with periodic spikes up and down, not forward. We do help each other, but its all voluntary, nothing written or imposed, we just individually help each other. Its full of some really great people, that if we had structure would move forward.
Has this guy sent you ore or other mats? Never.
Has he ever taken you on a run someplace where he didn't need anything? Never, nor have I ever witnessed them doing that for someone else.
But really I wanted to know just without those things what the standard practice was in general. Obviously extenuating circumstances would change that one way or the other.
B
also, I had a feeling these questions would come up and I wanted to avoid the distraction they could cause but they are important:
Is it a guild mate? Yes
Does your guild provide mats back and forth between professions so as to move the guild forward? Let me stop laughing first...no. I didn't want the conversation to tangent because of the guild thing. Our guild is totally unstructured and chaotic. We move. But it is more a crazy vibration with periodic spikes up and down, not forward. We do help each other, but its all voluntary, nothing written or imposed, we just individually help each other. Its full of some really great people, that if we had structure would move forward.
Has this guy sent you ore or other mats? Never.
Has he ever taken you on a run someplace where he didn't need anything? Never, nor have I ever witnessed them doing that for someone else.
But really I wanted to know just without those things what the standard practice was in general. Obviously extenuating circumstances would change that one way or the other.
B
Quote:
Thank you so much for the replies. I honestly thought this person was nuts but wanted some verification.
Yeah, hands down - just because an item might be relatively easy for you to get doesn't mean that the item isn't still rare/expensive.
Quote:
And Rusttle it caused me to break out in a rash of obscenties when I heard what was going on too.
It is one person who is asking this, with some agreeing.
It is one person who is asking this, with some agreeing.
NP - tell the ones that are agreeing to have their JC toons pony up the four DEs and see how fast they disagree.
Quote:
I was hoping it wasn't the general train of thought *whew*.
Nah - stupidity of that magnitude is inevitably the exception, not the norm - if it was then I know I'd of stopped playing this game years ago.
Quote:
And you wouldn't believe how many people have told me that arctic fur is "just some skinning" My left horn for more fur!
I would - that's part of the reason that annalogy was put in - I skin mobs during different instances and get that 1 in 50 drop and cheer and half the time some cheapskate wants me to give it to them for whatever reason with the mindset of 'Its easy for you to get them you just have to skin stuff' - excuse me, but how many mobs have you seen me skin to finally get just ONE to drop? Did it ever occure to you that there's a good reason why they go for 50-100g on the AH?
Quote:
I don't mind helping out friends/family if I have the mats on hand but for strangers or acquaintances to expect it turns me into a very grumpy Tauren.
Eh - there's a point where one has to stop - former lady friend was like that - always hooking peeps up with raw mats, finished goods and loans for mounts and what-not then when it came time for her to score her own epic mount no one seemed to be able to repay the loans and no one that'd received hundreds in mats and finished goods helped at all.
I am a JC, and I go to the AH every single time I want a Dragon's Eye.
Why? Because those dailies that I do provide me with the only currency that will let me buy the top end JC recipes. I will NOT purchase a Dragon's Eye with a token until each and every last recipe which I could possibly think of being useful is bought.
We're talking something in the vicinity of 3 months worth of dailies, every day, just to get the recipes, and not all of them. Lately I've been slacking on my dailies, so it'll take even longer than that.
Tell the cheapskate that since it's only 4 dailies for a JC, he's welcome to take up the JC profession and level it up to the 350+ range, do those 4 dailies, and provide you the mats.
Why? Because those dailies that I do provide me with the only currency that will let me buy the top end JC recipes. I will NOT purchase a Dragon's Eye with a token until each and every last recipe which I could possibly think of being useful is bought.
We're talking something in the vicinity of 3 months worth of dailies, every day, just to get the recipes, and not all of them. Lately I've been slacking on my dailies, so it'll take even longer than that.
Tell the cheapskate that since it's only 4 dailies for a JC, he's welcome to take up the JC profession and level it up to the 350+ range, do those 4 dailies, and provide you the mats.
I'm not a JC but I do have sympathies. Personally, I feel that if a material is available on the AH, someone that wants something crafting that uses the material should provide them themselves.
I do enchanting. If someone wants an enchant that uses an Arcane Crystal (AH cost on my server, around 150g) then they have to provide it. It doesn't matter how many I've got in the bank or how many I picked up on the last guild run (we roll for the unused spoils, I occasionally win), that's mine and if someone wants an enchant, they have to provide their own materials. Same should apply for jewelcrafting, blacksmithing, everything.
I do enchanting. If someone wants an enchant that uses an Arcane Crystal (AH cost on my server, around 150g) then they have to provide it. It doesn't matter how many I've got in the bank or how many I picked up on the last guild run (we roll for the unused spoils, I occasionally win), that's mine and if someone wants an enchant, they have to provide their own materials. Same should apply for jewelcrafting, blacksmithing, everything.
Scholar
27 posts
I'm a fresh level 80 and I've been eye-ing one of those titanium rings.
I have a very good friend from college who is a jc on his main@jc level 450.
He is also in my guild.
I've always sent him all my green's to help him level his enchanter, and he does my enchants for free.
I also send him ebonweave to his tailor for free so he can make 22 slot bags because he makes double moonweave.
He will probably send me moonweave for the same reason once my tailoring is up there.
I WOULD NEVER ASK HIM TO PROVIDE ME WITH 4 FREE DRAGON EYES!!
I have a very good friend from college who is a jc on his main@jc level 450.
He is also in my guild.
I've always sent him all my green's to help him level his enchanter, and he does my enchants for free.
I also send him ebonweave to his tailor for free so he can make 22 slot bags because he makes double moonweave.
He will probably send me moonweave for the same reason once my tailoring is up there.
I WOULD NEVER ASK HIM TO PROVIDE ME WITH 4 FREE DRAGON EYES!!
Quote:
Lately I've been slacking on my dailies, so it'll take even longer than that.
I'm lucky in that my JC is a mage so after I dinged 71 with it so it could port back to Dal on its own, I simply set the bind point for the heart of the area I do most of my JC dailies. As such, doing the daily for JC only takes 5m or less - hearth down, kill half a dozen mobs (at most) for the drop, click combine, port back to Dal, turn in and done.
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Because those dailies that I do provide me with the only currency that will let me buy the top end JC recipes. I will NOT purchase a Dragon's Eye with a token until each and every last recipe which I could possibly think of being useful is bought. We're talking something in the vicinity of 3 months worth of dailies, every day, just to get the recipes, and not all of them.
This, pretty much. I am main JC in a small guild. Ultimately I feel like I'm benefitting more(for both me and the guild) from getting every design there is. Dragon's eyes can be bought fairly easily and those epics will last weeks or months depending on progression. While saving sometimes 50-60g (that's difference on BO between raw and cut gems on some specific design on my server) by having familiar JC that never charges guildie for cutting(they bring gems, I cut designs they want) is far better in my humble opinion.
Yes getting every gem design will get over 3 months, adding to it metas and epics is getting close to half year of daily day after day. HALF YEAR. Now tell me it's ok to waste 4 days multiple times without being compensated for it in some way.
Our guild has an interesting Dragon Eye arrangement involving me and our second in command. I am rogue with herbing 450 and JC 375. I plan on eventually dropping JC for engineering. My guild mate is JC/Ench 450. I do the JC daily turn in token for DE and mail directly to him. I get my 13g he gets the DE. He uses his tokens for recipes. Some might think I am getting short end of stick, but I think it is win/win.
1) Our guild will have more JC recipes rather than 2 JCs with a few each.
2) He give me priority when buying the recipes (ie which gems do I want next)
3) Titansteel necklace, ring and dagger for free (apart from the aforementioned DEs).
I could sell them on the AH for gold but my guild would be weaker and I would just use the gold to buy the things he made for me. And in the meantime all my mining on my alt goes into the back for my 1-450 upcoming engineering grind
Vulk
Edit: Didn't want to sound condensending to my guildmate if it came off that way. By 2nd in command he is asst gm I rank below him.
Edited, May 8th 2009 4:20pm by holdenvulk
1) Our guild will have more JC recipes rather than 2 JCs with a few each.
2) He give me priority when buying the recipes (ie which gems do I want next)
3) Titansteel necklace, ring and dagger for free (apart from the aforementioned DEs).
I could sell them on the AH for gold but my guild would be weaker and I would just use the gold to buy the things he made for me. And in the meantime all my mining on my alt goes into the back for my 1-450 upcoming engineering grind
Vulk
Edit: Didn't want to sound condensending to my guildmate if it came off that way. By 2nd in command he is asst gm I rank below him.
Edited, May 8th 2009 4:20pm by holdenvulk
I'd of thought that the DEs would be pretty cheap by now - sure, the new raids have probably resulted in a spike thanks to peeps gemming up new gear, but otherwise...
Quote:
Even friends should have to pay for the components.
Friends/guildies are often discounted AH price, but not free, on expensive items. Or "loaned."
10-50% off seems reasonable. Depends how much they help each other. In a raiding guild, a tank getting a ring with better stats helps the raid move forward... sooo.... sometimes it is good to give, but if you always give for free, you'll be a broke fool.
Well, I'm a capitalist, and until you've lvl'd a Maxed JC you'll never know how much gold I dumped into my profession. I don't run daily's for anyone except myself, and then I use my materials I gain to make my living. If I want to spend gold, I need to make gold. I'm currently on a personal goal to buy myself a Hog to ride around............have you priced those? I've yet to find ANYONE willing to give those away. I'm gonna need 30 dragon eyes to make enough rings to just have enough to purchase the mats.
It's all relative.Money makes the WoW go around!
It's all relative.Money makes the WoW go around!
I just glanced through most of the replies here, so I'm sorry if I repeat this, but the JC issue is pretty much like cooking. To get the cooking recipes you need the cooking rewards from the daily. It's sort of like the Northern Spices is the Dragon's Eye to cooking (except much cheaper). Yet there's only two ways to get the spices, either by doing the dailies (you can usually get at least 3 spices at turn in), or using your cooking rewards to buy them. But this guy requesting your friend to provide the Dragon's eye, is like some random person coming up to me giving me worg haunches and requesting I provide all of the northern spices to cook those buff foods for them.
Like I said, the spices don't cost near as much as the eyes, but the concept is pretty similar.
Like I said, the spices don't cost near as much as the eyes, but the concept is pretty similar.
LF Tailor to craft Spellstrike Pants. My mats your BoP Primal Nether, no tip. Sound familiar?
Hips wrote:
I'm currently on a personal goal to buy myself a Hog to ride around............have you priced those? I've yet to find ANYONE willing to give those away. I'm gonna need 30 dragon eyes to make enough rings to just have enough to purchase the mats.
True, they are expensive. But, when your toon gets on that hog and starts picking up some night elf booty he is going to be sooo happy he will thank you for all eternity.
"the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
Hermann Goering, April 1946.
Hermann Goering, April 1946.
There are so many patterns to get with JC dailies tokens that as others have said if I want all the patterns I'll need to do them for month's without buying Dragon's Eye's. I can speed this up by running heroics a ton a day and usually get a damaged necklace and as long as nobody else rolls on it then I might get an extra Dragon's Eye. The same could be said for cooking there is a reason that the Chef's hat is an achievement and takes a good amount of time to get. I find that people asking for free mats don't even think about the time involved. I'm more than happy to give free Dragon's Eye's if someone wants to give me free JC patterns.
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