I thought of a solution today to the economy problem that plagues MMORPG's with a player-based economy. You know the one I'm talking about... the one where it actually costs you money to produce items instead of making money. Why don't they just make the buy price of the items higher for NPC's? If say you had an item that costs you 6s to make, that item would sell to an NPC for 6s or more. Surely this would keep the prices at AH from plummeting far below this sell price.
Now I can see 1 arguement against this and that is this: Surely there would be a surplus of gold then in the economy because there is an unlimited supply of gp comming from monsters. This is going to eliminate the AH!
I believe that this would actually ENCOURAGE the use of the AH. Not only are crafters more comfortable with crafting, but it would increase demand for items that are unique to crafting. This puts more demand at the AH because if you don't get the price you want for it, you would sell it to the NPC... which is taking that item out of the game. Also, when an NPC is out of stock on the item, players would HAVE to go to the AH, thus increasing demand.
I actually don't play World of Warcraft... yet. I played FFXI for a long time and the only reason I stopped was due to the broken economy. It seems WoW is a far superior game, but it is still plagued with a flawed economy. I think that it may even cross the line to perfection if it was fixed.
-Aaron
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11 posts
nobody has any thoughts on this?
Prices of the raw materials would just move up in unison.
Part of the reason why is because, frankly, the AH in WoW is a pain in the butt to use. I would rather give an item away than sell it for 10s at the AH. So, even though there are a lot of drops each day, only a fraction of them will go to the AH; others enter the "non-cash" economy between guildmates or alts, and a lot just get vendored.
So there's always going to be a bit more demand for raw materials than supply at the AH - low-level crafting isn't that rewarding, so people like to blitz through it in big crafting sessions, and high-level crafting requires a LOT of materials.
Increasing the sell price of items is only going to make people want to do MORE big crafting sessions. That will drive up the demand for the raw materials on the AH - because if you can make money, you'll buy, and if you only break even, you still get skill! - and you're left in the same boat you started in, except now you've unbalanced all the non-equipment expenses like mounts.
Not all items are going to be profitable to craft. That's not a sign of a broken economy, it's a sign of a -functioning- one, in that it's capable of valuing raw materials at their actual worth and not by the game designer's formula.
Part of the reason why is because, frankly, the AH in WoW is a pain in the butt to use. I would rather give an item away than sell it for 10s at the AH. So, even though there are a lot of drops each day, only a fraction of them will go to the AH; others enter the "non-cash" economy between guildmates or alts, and a lot just get vendored.
So there's always going to be a bit more demand for raw materials than supply at the AH - low-level crafting isn't that rewarding, so people like to blitz through it in big crafting sessions, and high-level crafting requires a LOT of materials.
Increasing the sell price of items is only going to make people want to do MORE big crafting sessions. That will drive up the demand for the raw materials on the AH - because if you can make money, you'll buy, and if you only break even, you still get skill! - and you're left in the same boat you started in, except now you've unbalanced all the non-equipment expenses like mounts.
Not all items are going to be profitable to craft. That's not a sign of a broken economy, it's a sign of a -functioning- one, in that it's capable of valuing raw materials at their actual worth and not by the game designer's formula.
11 posts
That's a good point. How about this then. Everytime you craft an item, it creates a log on how much it cost you to make that item. The minimum cost that it took to make it would then be the price that you were offered from an NPC.
I have a buddy that plays EQ2 and I was talking to him last night about the crafting system. He said that you don't lose money on the crafting system... Now I don't know exactly how that works, but there must be a way for Blizzard to control prices so that you could feasibly make an in-game trade business that actually makes money. I realize that you get skill-ups from crafting, but my point is what good is a high skill in something if you can't make money on it? The obvious answer is so you can craft something for your own use... from my experience in FFXI, it's often cheaper to buy the item outright then to buy the materials and craft it yourself. Is this not the case in WoW? Please correct me if I have made an incorrect assumption.
I have a buddy that plays EQ2 and I was talking to him last night about the crafting system. He said that you don't lose money on the crafting system... Now I don't know exactly how that works, but there must be a way for Blizzard to control prices so that you could feasibly make an in-game trade business that actually makes money. I realize that you get skill-ups from crafting, but my point is what good is a high skill in something if you can't make money on it? The obvious answer is so you can craft something for your own use... from my experience in FFXI, it's often cheaper to buy the item outright then to buy the materials and craft it yourself. Is this not the case in WoW? Please correct me if I have made an incorrect assumption.
1 post
In World of Warcraft much of the items that are needed for crafting actually comes from simple drops from creeps or from other skills. Im a leatherworker in WOW, I need potions to create gloves and boots at higher levels in which you can get from Alchemists. When you put items into the Auction Houses in WOW the ingame system automatically raises the bid price a certain precentage from the vendor trade in value.
For example I need 8 light leather and 5 coarse thread for Embossed Leather Boots. The leather I get from skinning so its practically free but it sells for 15 copper a peice, the thread I have to buy, but its only 10 copper each. So im only paying 50 copper for that particaular item, and today I sold 1 of this item for 10 silver, thats 20 times more than what I had to pay for the raw materials.
For example I need 8 light leather and 5 coarse thread for Embossed Leather Boots. The leather I get from skinning so its practically free but it sells for 15 copper a peice, the thread I have to buy, but its only 10 copper each. So im only paying 50 copper for that particaular item, and today I sold 1 of this item for 10 silver, thats 20 times more than what I had to pay for the raw materials.
Quote:
In World of Warcraft much of the items that are needed for crafting actually comes from simple drops from creeps or from other skills. Im a leatherworker in WOW, I need potions to create gloves and boots at higher levels in which you can get from Alchemists. When you put items into the Auction Houses in WOW the ingame system automatically raises the bid price a certain precentage from the vendor trade in value.
For example I need 8 light leather and 5 coarse thread for Embossed Leather Boots. The leather I get from skinning so its practically free but it sells for 15 copper a peice, the thread I have to buy, but its only 10 copper each. So im only paying 50 copper for that particaular item, and today I sold 1 of this item for 10 silver, thats 20 times more than what I had to pay for the raw materials.
For example I need 8 light leather and 5 coarse thread for Embossed Leather Boots. The leather I get from skinning so its practically free but it sells for 15 copper a peice, the thread I have to buy, but its only 10 copper each. So im only paying 50 copper for that particaular item, and today I sold 1 of this item for 10 silver, thats 20 times more than what I had to pay for the raw materials.
Dude, i've been raped by buying shadow oil one too many times. ><
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5 posts
THe problem with the WOW economy is that it is not well balanced. Especially when first starting a profession. I understand that the point of doing a profession is to raise it and make money off of it or even supply yourself with armor, enchants, weapons, etc. But, it costs players that are starting out more money to raise a profession that u no longer have money for repairs or other mateirals you may need. Also, some of your materials come from the npc's which i dont agree with. Tailor's should be able to make the different types of threads that are needed by a lot of the professions. Alchemists should be able to make the dyes that tailors need. Enchanters i think have it the worst. i know some of their enchants sell for over 6g but enchanting raises real slowly. They dont get xp towards their profession when they disenchant which is a big flaw. I think Blizzard needs to rethink how the professions work and how you raise them.
23 posts
It's not so out of whack. I had 265 in leatherworking, saw where it was going, and dropped it. I'm 300 skinning/mining now and my only complain is that the demand for ore is not higher. I'm sitting on over 600 gold though, and have made loans out to lots of friends so that they could buy their mounts. (I'm lvl 59 rogue, lots of friends my lvl, but some got the game late and are just breaking 40)
3 posts
Your thoughts are naive. If your suggestions were implemented it would only cripple the economy. If it were that easy to lvl crafting skills, than everyone would have them lvld and the market would be saturated. Currently the economy is in the best format suited for this environment. Things are not always meant to be easy, it has to be challenging to discourage everyone from abusing it.
What you're saying would basically make crafting free or allow it to make money during all stages.
The idea is simple, you start out, you know squat about how to make items, and there are 100,000,000 players that could do the exact same thing. In the mean-time, however, if you picked something that suits your class, you get useful gear or enchants/potions etc to assist you. Once you get to a higher level, you get to a point where not everyone can just make an alt and be able to make that stuff after an hour playing.
The problem as I see it is that, compared to other games, its too easy to level trade skills. I mean there isn't even a chance of losing materials.
The trouble in many games has been that these items never go away, and the prices eventually drop to near vendor prices, as there is a huge oversupply. In WoW the items soulbind, so this isn't as large of an issue, but higher vendor prices would just cause even more inflation. If you make the sell prices go up, you'll get more money, which will buy a great deal less. The only difference will be that other monster drops will be worth less in comparison
In most MMORPGS, things cost more to make than to sell, because of the number of people that need the items relative to those that need them. Too many people take professions and produce too many goods while leveling up, so you have competition.
The idea is simple, you start out, you know squat about how to make items, and there are 100,000,000 players that could do the exact same thing. In the mean-time, however, if you picked something that suits your class, you get useful gear or enchants/potions etc to assist you. Once you get to a higher level, you get to a point where not everyone can just make an alt and be able to make that stuff after an hour playing.
The problem as I see it is that, compared to other games, its too easy to level trade skills. I mean there isn't even a chance of losing materials.
The trouble in many games has been that these items never go away, and the prices eventually drop to near vendor prices, as there is a huge oversupply. In WoW the items soulbind, so this isn't as large of an issue, but higher vendor prices would just cause even more inflation. If you make the sell prices go up, you'll get more money, which will buy a great deal less. The only difference will be that other monster drops will be worth less in comparison
In most MMORPGS, things cost more to make than to sell, because of the number of people that need the items relative to those that need them. Too many people take professions and produce too many goods while leveling up, so you have competition.
I crafted in EQ2, (highest woodworker on the server) and you do lose money on crafting unless you sell it for profit to other players. In EQ2 crafting took tons of time, and you deserved to make a profit from it. In this game crafting takes little effort besides gathering the materials. The prices you see on the AH aren't really a good idea of what the item is worth, its what people are willing to pay to powerlevel their tradeskill up to what they want to make. If you made money vendor selling, people would write bots to do it and inflate the market so that it would cost you 10 gold per stack of linen. This was the downfall of the FFXI economy with fishing bots turning up 10k worth of rusty caps per hour. Just take crafting in WoW for what it is.. a hobby that helps out you and your friends and you'll be much happier with it.
14 posts
On storm reaver we have a solution. Vendor players. They regulate the price of items. Of course its in a vendor players best interest to drive the price of every item as high as possible. But now you can always get materials because there are some people who cant afford the price. On the plus side I make lots of money on light leather.
A note: Im a tailor. If you start 3 mages at the same time with your buds and are going to level them to 20 in two days or 3. Make sure some picks up tailoring and skinning. Someone gets alchemy and herb. and someone gets enchanting and mining. It may seem odd but later on you'll understand these are good combos. Especially for mages that don't want to stop in town except to return quests.
Edited, Tue Feb 22 10:18:41 2005 by hawkinthemist
Edited, Tue Feb 22 10:19:19 2005 by hawkinthemist
A note: Im a tailor. If you start 3 mages at the same time with your buds and are going to level them to 20 in two days or 3. Make sure some picks up tailoring and skinning. Someone gets alchemy and herb. and someone gets enchanting and mining. It may seem odd but later on you'll understand these are good combos. Especially for mages that don't want to stop in town except to return quests.
Edited, Tue Feb 22 10:18:41 2005 by hawkinthemist
Edited, Tue Feb 22 10:19:19 2005 by hawkinthemist
I strongly disagree that the economy is that out of whack. I started two weeks ago and have found numerous ways to make a profit. Other MMORPGs I've played this was impossible. Leveling enchanting is not as hard as it is made out ot be either. And you do rank for disenchants.
C'mon people... it's a game. It is supposed to be a challenge. Otherwise we'd all leave.
C'mon people... it's a game. It is supposed to be a challenge. Otherwise we'd all leave.
OK, forgive me if somebody has already posted this, but I stopped reading about half-way through the thread.
The main reason you dont make money is WOW by selling the items yo create to a vendor, is because Blizzard WANTS you to lose money this way. They have put in a few different methods to take money out of the economy, and this is one. Blizzard is pretty open about this. They did it so the economy would not go completely out of whack, like EQ's did.
Personally, I don't know whether it is working or not, as cash flows so quickly in this game, that you will NEVER run out of cash. Another way Blizzard removes money from the economy is the Griffons. Why do you think it costs you money to ride them?
The main reason you dont make money is WOW by selling the items yo create to a vendor, is because Blizzard WANTS you to lose money this way. They have put in a few different methods to take money out of the economy, and this is one. Blizzard is pretty open about this. They did it so the economy would not go completely out of whack, like EQ's did.
Personally, I don't know whether it is working or not, as cash flows so quickly in this game, that you will NEVER run out of cash. Another way Blizzard removes money from the economy is the Griffons. Why do you think it costs you money to ride them?
I'd like to throw in my 2 cents about this.
I feel that the player driven economy is fine. The only thing that ruins it are players that use bots and gold sellers. These accounts need to be deleted immediately. When gold and such can be purchased outside the game it breaks the economy.
I'm not trying to rant, its just a simple fact.
Off the soap box.
I feel that the player driven economy is fine. The only thing that ruins it are players that use bots and gold sellers. These accounts need to be deleted immediately. When gold and such can be purchased outside the game it breaks the economy.
I'm not trying to rant, its just a simple fact.
Off the soap box.
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