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Geez...what happened to the game?Follow

#1 Oct 30 2004 at 1:25 AM Rating: Good
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*warning* long post/rant. If you don't want to read a long post/rant, click "Thread Index" above or below this page.

It wasn't until I took a step back and decided to treat this game more like a game and less like a job that I realized that far too many of the people on our server have completely lost touch with reality.

I got tired of farming for gil to equip my RNG post lvl 60, so for the last couple of nights, I've been trying to lvl NIN to 37 (from 34) so I can use the scroll of Utsusemi: Ni that has just been taking up space in my mog house since I got it. I thought it would be a fun break...instead of needing 20k exp to level, I only needed 6.2k exp. I've been known to pull down 20k exp in less than a few hours, so it should have been no big deal, right? Wrong.

Every single group I've joined since then has involved one aspect of selfishness or another. Some were not bad, like the group I joined tonight where I waited for an hour for it to fill up so we could head out. The leader eventually disbanded because so many people who said they would join logged out without notice and didn't come back (selfish).

I got blind invites, and when I responded with a pleasant "Hello ^^" I got no response until I finally told them I wasn't in the habit of accepting blind invites and had to decline. (selfish)

My next invite came from someone who told me I would be replacing them in Garlaige. So I spent 1k gil on a chocobo to get there, /bow'd and /wave'd to them as I ran past, found the party I was supposed to join, only to be told the person who invited me knew full well the party was disbanding anyways. (selfish).

So I hung out at the entrance to Garlaige with my seek flag up like a beggar until I got another invite to a party in Crawler's Nest. I accepted, and used up some Silent Oil and Shinobi-Tabi on my way back to Jeuno so I could grab yet another expensive chocobo to CN. When I arrived there, I was disappointed to find that the one thing they neglected to tell me is that they were being powerleveled. (How in the BLUE hell, with all of the information circulating about this game, can people not know that if you're inviting others to a PL group, you have an OBLIGATION to tell them beforehand that that is the case?). I warped out after 3-4 fights when I realized that the PL wasn't a minor convenience, it was a necessity, as the fights we were engaged in would have otherwise killed us all.

Then I come to these forums. Our home forums. The Siren Server forums. And it's like a god damn soap opera. So and so is stirring up crap because so and so is harassing him and his girlfriend. Exodus is tired of the BS associated with trying to be a positive influence in this forum. Everyone wants someone else blacklisted because they are mean and nasty and forgot to brush their teeth.

All I wanted to do tonight was log into the game, have some fun, and accomplish SOMETHING that could justify my time. The party I spent an hour in before it disbanded because they couldn't get 6 members? I had to ask them *4* times where we were going before I got a roundabout answer. They were either not talking at all, or were talking in /tell or LS chat, and completely ignored me.

Get a damn grip.

I used to be a bit ashamed of my tendency to be a cantankerous bastard from time to time when things weren't working out...disfunctional parties, slow-ass exp, or trash-spamming morons...they all got a piece of my mind.

Now that I've resolved to just chill out and make sure that above all, I (and the rest of the people around me) are having fun, nothing has changed. I still have to be a hardass to get people to remember this is a game and to just shut up, stop snivelling, and either have fun or leave.

Something tells me that the person who is going to have to leave since they can't have fun is likely going to be me.

If that's the case, that's very unfortunate. I don't know how many of you have checked out trailers and previews of the newest "competition" coming out, but it all looks pretty week. FFXI is still hands down the best produced and best supported MMORPG on the market.

The 14 year olds who don't understand the concept of "due process" get choked when the GMs in FFXI don't ban suspected gil farmers on the spot. But then they get uppity when the same GMs haul them to jail and tell them that the crude name they gave their mule isn't acceptable.

Have you even seen the crap coming down the pipe from north american developers? WoW looks like fun until you watch the combat sequences. It's like Double Dragon on a two dimensional field.

EQ2 looks like the developers got bored mid-way through. And Guild Wars? The new MMORPG with no monthly fee? Clumsy as hell. (I just tried the demo).

FFXI is not perfect. It's a freaking video game with an online chat-room built in, not an attempt to create Utopia. The NA community, however, is starting to resemble a hallway in a highschool. Rumors, drama, bullies, idiots, whiners, and immaturity are starting to abound in a game where the original players (our JP counterparts) are 10-15 years older than the NA norm, and it's really starting to show.

Hell, I've even checked out standalone RPGs. You know, the big names like Baldur's Gate and Morrowind. Both look like Super Mario Brothers compared to FFXI. I've watched the gameplay trailers.

Do any of you even understand how priviledged we are to be able to play an RPG (online or otherwise) where the developers actually invested the money into motion capture and making the entire game as visually appealling as was possible with the platform they originally launched it on?

Does anyone on our server actually play the game for the sake of a fun challenge with new things to see around the corner and new areas to explore?

I spent a few hours the other day running around Oldton Movalpolos, checking out farming options and working on a quest there. A couple of times I thought it would be more fun if I could find a couple of people to join me and take on a few things that were too risky to handle solo. Do you think I could find a single NA player to join me? (I have nothing against JPs, but it's a little more fun when I can communicate in my native language and be understood).

None. Everyone has one of two mindsets...make gil, or get exp. Screw everything else. And yet, they complain when the gil or the exp is slow. They talk about how sick they are of the "grind". But when an opportunity comes up to do something different, fun, and rewarding, if there isn' 6k exp/hour or 50k gil/hour in it, it's like they're wasting their time.

Where did the fun go? When did people start to forget that rush of excitement the first time they stepped out of their home city to fight something, wondering what it would be like? Where did the excitement go that came from zoning into an area where you'd never been before?

It's almost like everyone is focused on leveling higher and higher so they can fight HNMs and gods so they can get better gear to be better at fighting HNMs and gods...nevermind the fact that I ran into a 57 RNG not too long ago that didn't know that the ferry from Selbina WASN'T the only way to get to Mhaura.

Why do we level if the only reason we level is to get better at leveling?

My rant is done.

If you run into me in-game, just understand this.

I'm a 60 RNG/NIN (currently working on NIN) who wants to have a fun time with a friendly group who knows what they're doing and walk away feeling like the time I spent farming to buy the tools I need to do my job was worth it.

Is that so much to aak?
#2 Oct 30 2004 at 9:50 AM Rating: Good
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I, in all my years, could have NEVER said it better myself.


/bow
/respect
/salute
/<insert more praise here>

You definitly get my rate up for this man. Chin up, alright? Even I could tell you that at least there's a small handful of people out there that think just like this.
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#3 Oct 30 2004 at 10:03 AM Rating: Decent
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amen.
^^
#4 Oct 30 2004 at 12:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Amen. Times... 463.

I really can't follow up with anything, it's all been said well.
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#5 Oct 30 2004 at 4:02 PM Rating: Decent
well said :)
#6 Oct 30 2004 at 4:52 PM Rating: Decent
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/stand
/applaud

Yes, others see this too...god this feels great. I too have made this realization many a moon ago that others feel this game is just about the gil/exp. It's about the great race to 75 and having the uber gear and tons of gil. You've pretty much sumed up what I've been wanting to say for so long.

I love the parties I get into where you don't even think about looking at how much you got tnl...or you'll say to hell with death let's see if we can beat it. I love to be farming with others and we say, "Ok, let's take a break and just explore for a bit". The only problem with this is, it rarely happens.

So yeah, if your ever on and you see me on, just send a holla and I'll explore with you.
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#7 Oct 30 2004 at 5:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Very nice post Aruelius. It makes me wonder though, how exactly do people who are always rude, or who always blindly invite people or who generaly make people feel unwelcome (generaly in parties) progress through the game? In general I dont invite someone that in the past has offended me or is known for being a bad player, am I the only one that does that? If not, then how do they get along in the game?

This is a social game, people who always whine, or always insult people, or are just down right not nice need to realize that this game involves other people too. . . real people. I know that if I acted the way some do in game in real life I'd be fired from my job, my friends would hate me and life would be miserable. Maybe thats just how some people like thier lives, where everyone dislikes them becuase they dont know how to behave and are laking the mental capacity to figure out why. Those people should go find themselves a game that doesn't require interaction with other humans and quite ruining the game for those of us who do appreciate that we all have different personalties but can still get along. Of course, I imagine people that are lacking in proper social skills flock together, just like they do in junior-high school. Maybe thats how they progress in the game.

Also Aurelius, I feel your pain in the aspect of parties. When I was a RNG (long long ago lol) I absolutely hated the way that people would blindly invite me, not make me feel welcome and then expect me to burn all the gil I made while farming to help them level. Yes I know it was my job, and selfish o my part to think that, but c'mon, RNG farm the most in the game and people just expect you start the game off loaded. I once had a person laugh at me after dieing several times that I shouldnt even have joined the party, becuase I wasted y time in the group, and the time spent farming just to join...man I just noticed how selfish I sound lol.

Anyways, the point I'm trying to get to is that everyone really needs to strive to be nicer to EVERYONE else. It really does make it hard to enjoy the game when everyone has thier own personal agendas and dont want to help others or just go exploring with others as Aurelius mentioned. I'm sure I'll catch some flack for this but who cares lol. With that said I think I'm done now, sorry for making you read my little rant. Also, if you ever see me in game, send me a tell and say hi, I'm always up to go do something if you need it and I'm not terribly busy. =^.^=
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#8 Oct 30 2004 at 11:42 PM Rating: Decent
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I migrated my main character to hades and i hated it. Lots of stuff went wrong, so i made new character on siren and i leveled all day yesterday and lastnight and things were pretty mundane until about halfway through when i hooked up with this one party and i gotta say, we did'nt get crap for exp, because we screwed off alot, but we HAD FUN. Between the tank runnin around and mession with the MNK about being gay, me taru dancing, and the rest of the party goin afk every 5 minutes....I had a blast. I never laughed so hard and had soo much fun in this game until that party. In between that, i was b/sing with my LS and having fun there.

I know ppl are going to think i'm an idiot, but what the hell is the point in leveling as fast as you can and making tones of money without havin fun with the game and the people? Before i started this new character, i was about to quit altogether.

Give it time and if anything, level another job from the ground up. You'll be amazed at the interesting ppl ya meet.
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#9 Oct 31 2004 at 10:31 AM Rating: Decent
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I gotta agree with you Vegetacron.

I have a new character on another server, and I'm having a lot of fun with that. It's a nice break from the usual slaving away all day to get that next level.

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#10 Oct 31 2004 at 12:16 PM Rating: Decent
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One of the things about FFXI that appealed to me when I was thinking about joining was what everyone told me, that levelling up was too hard, and the game required too much time too play. But instead of seeing that as a disadvantage as my other firends did, I liked the concept because I'm usually not in a hurry to get things done and I do enjoy experimenting and playing around with things. Players that are only after instant gratification would get turned off by FFXI, which only makes it better in my eyes to not have such people around. The main reason that I hated Ragnarok was because the other players were so mean and stuck up. I swear that the maturity level of that game is 10 years below what FFXI is. My only problem with FFXI (or any other mmorpg) is that I still haven't really gotten over the shyness that I have about interacting with the other players and I tend to be too much of a loner.
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#11 Nov 04 2004 at 5:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Well... I was just about to quit this game about month ago, rather than buy the expansion pack. It was, as you guys said, too much like a JOB.

What I've done is take a step back, and not take the game so seriously. It's not a race to lv 75. This game will be around for years, you DON'T need to reach it's climax next month ^^. Take the pressure off yourself, play at a slower more comfortable pace, and whatever happens happens.

It is unfortunate about the growing selfishness in the game, though. Too bad we can't really do anything about it, except maybe try to teach these people the right way to play. I remember at first, not knowing what I was doing... And I was taught the way of things by more experienced players. I took the advice in stride, and didn't see it as a slap in the face for not knowing everything.

Maybe we should take it upon ourselves to show those less "knowledgeable" players, and show them how it should be done. And if they aren't willing to listen, then at least we tried. In the end, we as the players are responsible for the game's environment.

Edited, Thu Nov 4 05:31:01 2004 by SniperEdain
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#12 Nov 07 2004 at 10:03 AM Rating: Decent
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I think the issue that really haunts the players and makes them so greedy and selfish is the fact that money is 'hard' and certain items are 'nessesary' to doing your task well.

Money hard and needed items means people knows exactly what certain classes will lean towards and start bumping up the prices on those items. The more people become dependant on sniper rings for example the more they lose touch with the game at its core and focus solely on aquiring those items.

FFXI is not a hard game to play. There shouldn't be these stupid DRG vs DRK and PLD vs NIN cat fights thats always breaking out. Maybe gil is more of a challenge to get when compared to per se AC2 where you could gold every item you find right in the field, but theres no reason for people to camp NM's for days on end because a certain the drop is 'needed' for any certain class.

Some people have this stupid mindset that if they went and paid overly high costs on +1 items(which come on and admit it, +1 items are RARELY worth the extra 10 times cost) that everyone else should be wearing +1 gear as well. If they are not then that person must be a bad player. How many players have been in XP groups where NO ONE talked? Alot I am sure....Thats not my idea of fun. I want people to chat and know I am talking to a human and not some dumb machine.

Anyone can make effecient XP/hr, but it takes a real player to know what their idea of effecient is and know how to have fun doing so.

My LS and I try to make a weekly XP hunt in numerous zones which we may not have visitied before. Yes sometimes we get slaughtered. Some times we have some harsh fight, but over all we have fun doing so. People say they are tired of fighting crabs, flies, and other common mobs, but then they absolutely refuse to go and try to level anywhere else but the norm.

The game isn't broken...it's the people playing it that is. Well there goes my added rant to add-on heh.
#13 Nov 08 2004 at 12:45 AM Rating: Decent
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I really find it irritating when people use the wrong negative adjectives to describe a situation.

The word "Selfish" really doesn't describe any of those situations. Most of them could be said to be rude or asinine, but none were selfish. Just my little mini rant on his rant.

Really though I see no REAL purpose to rants. Yes they do blow off steam and are a nice coping tool, but they never actually accomplish anything.

Quote:

Some people have this stupid mindset that if they went and paid overly high costs on +1 items(which come on and admit it, +1 items are RARELY worth the extra 10 times cost) that everyone else should be wearing +1 gear as well. If they are not then that person must be a bad player. How many players have been in XP groups where NO ONE talked? Alot I am sure....Thats not my idea of fun. I want people to chat and know I am talking to a human and not some dumb machine.


I've been called an elitist, and I know those people simply don't understand. I simply like to enjoy leveling, rather than trudging through it. +1 gears makes the game more fun for me, and everyone else in my party. No of course +1 gear is not neccesarry, but I dearly like it when I see other players with it, it makes the game more enjoyable. I find that there's less arguing and more fun in parties where everyone is well equipped. In regular or poorly equipped parties I hear people saying to one another stuff like " man you don't have dark staff" and "You should really get some snipers." While in +1 equipped parties there's things like "Wow did you see how much I hit that for?" and "Awsome, I didn't think we'd be able to take that down."

It seems players like to stereotype +1 equipped players as "elitists," "snobby," or "arrogant." If I turn down your invite because you have poor gear it's not because I'm snobby, it's because I want to have fun, and parties that constantly yell about the tank not holding hate and the like aren't fun.
#14 Nov 08 2004 at 2:50 AM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
The word "Selfish" really doesn't describe any of those situations. Most of them could be said to be rude or asinine, but none were selfish. Just my little mini rant on his rant.


I'm inclined to disagree with you. The term "selfish" being described as consideration only for one's self applies to all of the situations I listed.

The party I joined, and waited for an hour to fill out, only to have it disband because people who had joined kept leaving with no warning or notice? They weren't thinking about the other members of the group, they were thinking "This is taking too long...*I* am bored, so I'll just leave and go do other things." (consideration only for themselves...they could have at least told us they were leaving so we could immediately start finding replacements, instead of wasting time wondering what was going on.) So yes, the term "selfish" does apply to that situation.

The people who sent me blind invites and proceeded to deny me the common courtesy of returning my tells? They weren't thinking about me joining a group to have fun...they were hoping they could spam invites and get a tank before someone else did. A blind invite I can overlook. Someone who invites me without a /tell beforehand and then doesn't respond to me for 10 minutes...they're thinking only of themselves. Again, the term "selfish" applies.

The group that invited me to their little chump PL session? Maybe selfish doesn't apply to that case (it may, but for the sake of argument, let's say it doesn't). Saying they were selfish to have not told me before I wasted over 1k gil on a chocobo was a whole lot better than saying they were just flat out stupid. So I chose the lesser of two evils in criticizing them.

The notion that we can go about our business in a social game without interacting with our fellow players is not acceptable to me. There is no fun in joining a group of people who say nothing as they go about the mundane and boring task of mass slaughter for the sake of exp. Not only that, but the people who say the least frequently represent the lowest skill level in the game.

Since I've changed my mindset about how I play this game, I find I've reached new extremes of decisiveness. Party not communicating and having fun? I leave. Party member treating other party members poorly? If I'm leader, they get one warning before they are booted. If I'm not leader, I leave.

Funny thing is, the parties who banter and chat amongst themselves are not only more fun, but seem to be more effective. EXP no good? They move to find better exp. Compare that to the "selfish" mindset party that says nothing until someone points out that the exp is weak or the risks of the camp location are too great, and then everyone pipes up... "it takes too much time to move to another camp...I don't want to go." (see also: "I'm lazy and selfish and I'd rather everyone suffer through crap exp/massive downtime than spend a few minutes moving so the party as a whole will get more from the situation.")
#15 Nov 12 2004 at 12:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Since I've changed my mindset about how I play this game, I find I've reached new extremes of decisiveness. Party not communicating and having fun? I leave. Party member treating other party members poorly? If I'm leader, they get one warning before they are booted. If I'm not leader, I leave.


But isn't that selfish? This party isn't fun. No one talks. This doesn't compute with my latest epiphiny on the social, thus they are wrong and I am right. You leave and forsake the party because YOU didn't find it fun? What if one of those members was enjoying themselves in that party reguardless of the silence. Was it fair to him? What if you were the only healer or tank they would have been able to use and the party was forced to disband because YOU weren't having fun.

#16 Nov 12 2004 at 10:13 PM Rating: Good
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Venomrequiem wrote:
Quote:
Since I've changed my mindset about how I play this game, I find I've reached new extremes of decisiveness. Party not communicating and having fun? I leave. Party member treating other party members poorly? If I'm leader, they get one warning before they are booted. If I'm not leader, I leave.


But isn't that selfish? This party isn't fun. No one talks. This doesn't compute with my latest epiphiny on the social, thus they are wrong and I am right. You leave and forsake the party because YOU didn't find it fun? What if one of those members was enjoying themselves in that party reguardless of the silence. Was it fair to him? What if you were the only healer or tank they would have been able to use and the party was forced to disband because YOU weren't having fun.



You ask a fair question. To better understand my perspective, let me ask you this. What is fun about a group that isn't chatting with one another and enjoying each other's company? Take it a step further...they aren't talking and they aren't accomplishing much either. How fun is that?

I've been in groups where the exp was terrible and there was a LOT of downtime. During that downtime, however, nobody was saying anything. I tried to start up numerous light conversations, and was completely ignored. To me, that was NOT fun. Nor do I believe it was selfish of me to leave the group when the downtime continued and the conversations I tried to start didn't.

If I leave a group that isn't working out for me, I always have a reason for doing so. The last group I left was in CN. I returned to Jeuno and found another group. The new group went to CN as well, and we ended up camped beside the group I had just recently left. I got a /tell from a member of the old group saying basically, "What was wrong with our party?"

I told him, "The exp was terrible and so was the apathy." Bear in mind...the group I left was pulling down a blinding 1-1.2k exp/hour, refused to even consider moving camps, and nobody was talking.

3k exp/hour is reasonable for a lvl 35-40 group. 4k is very good, 5k is exceptional. 2k is mediocre at best...1-1.2k? Downright embarassing.

I'm sorry if you end up in a party with me and I leave because nothing is being accomplished and everyone is to busy with their /t and /l conversations to pay attention to their EXP party. If you can find something fun in a situation like that, more power to you.
#17 Nov 14 2004 at 2:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Aur... The game hasn't changed its just that you have gotten used to the environment now that you have been on the game longer you will only see it worsen.. People in the server are becoming higher lvled and are having to deal w/ all the "stressful quests" such as AF gear... and dlvling is becoming a bigger hassle b/c of the XP loss... I'm not arguing w/ you at all but am merely saying look at it in these perspectives...

I wish people wouldn't change but hey gotta live w/ it.. I know I still play like I am a noob b/c I am one =P... A lot of my friends I had when I first started this game I am no longer friends w/ b/c they let the game sour them and lvl grinded.. My suggestion to people is to go and and try crafts instead of constantly level grinding.. dont burn out!
Well im out-
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