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Raise- 500Gil NowFollow

#27 Mar 29 2005 at 8:14 AM Rating: Default
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277 posts
u have the magic spell "Raise" therefore your suposed to raise someone if you please.. liek saying my job is not to SATA give me a fking break, if your in a party and charge someone who dies 500 gil to raise them while trying to save ur *** u got some problems.. if u charge someone gil to raise them period, u got problems. they ask for a raise because of a simple mistake, (they forget to set HP) you can at least give them 35 seconds of ur ime to raise them. and if they dont thank u, they r un thakfull bastaard

Edited, Tue Mar 29 08:20:59 2005 by VlonFFXI
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#28 Mar 29 2005 at 9:51 AM Rating: Decent
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177 posts
Who the **** would charge their own party member's for a raise? I mean **** if I could get away with that I'd just sit in a party all day and let people die, then charge to raise them. Think about what you just said, maybe you can see how stupid you look.

As for SATA being your job? If your a thief in the party thats what thf is designed to do. If your not doing your job in the party, or playing your role so to speak, you should and will be replaced. That simple.

Your trying to talk about apples when we talking about oranges little man. It's never a WHM's job to raise their party members for one simple reason. It's the whm's job to keep their party alive. Therefor you shouldn't have to raise them, unless the whm or someone in the party isn't doing their job.

Thf doesn't have any magic spells unless they are subbing NIN and use Utici. Is it your job to do that? No, it's your choice, and makes pulling safer for a thf. Thf's do however get the ability of Treasure Hunter and TH2. So if your trying to tell me it's my job to raise you, that is just like saying it's your job as a thf to come help me farm for whatever items I need whenever I message you up and ask for help. Free of charge I might add. Everyone who has reached the level 50 and has to do genkai sure knows the value of thf and their TH. Think about all the countless hours a thf spends lfg. Once someone wants to unlock the summoner job or get genkai done they sure know how to invite a thf to their party. So i guess this is your job mr.thf? You started this game not to play for yourself, but to sit around and be used by others whenever it fits their needs, right?

Good info to know. I will keep this in mind. Let me know if you ever make it out of the dunes so the next time I need to farm some clothcraft items I can message you up. You can farm for hours for me, help me get items and I wont pay you for your time or help.

Next time you want to make an arguement on this issue of why a whm is suppost to rasie people who are not in their party, maybe you will take the time to think of an actual good reason and not make yourself look like such a fool.
#29 Mar 29 2005 at 4:33 PM Rating: Good
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830 posts
Howdy folks! Smiley: smile

I have to tell ya, I am an undying advocate for /anon. I mean, seriously, whms have to answer a lot more /tells than just the raise requests({Party}{Location of your choice here}?, Powerlevel me?, Help {Sneak} me through (Horrible Place A) to complete (Ridiculously Beyond my Level Quest B)?, I could go on . . .), and /anon is quite simply the easiest way to avoid ALL random /tells when you're otherwise engaged.

As to charging for a raise, you'll never see that happen from me, though I might turn you down and see if I can't spot someone closer(in the same zone at least). I'm also not averse to accepting donations for my trouble, but I neither demand nor expect them for my services.

In answer to the money-making dilemma, that most whms face - our cloak spells(Invisible, Sneak, Deodorize) make mining an option for us long before some other jobs ever get the chance.
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#30 Mar 29 2005 at 4:35 PM Rating: Good
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830 posts
Howdy folks! Smiley: smile

I have to tell ya, I am an undying advocate for /anon. I mean, seriously, whms have to answer a lot more /tells than just the raise requests({Party}{Location of your choice here}?, Powerlevel me?, Help {Sneak} me through (Horrible Place A) to complete (Ridiculously Beyond my Level Quest B)?, I could go on . . .), and /anon is quite simply the easiest way to avoid ALL random /tells when you're otherwise engaged.

As to charging for a raise, you'll never see that happen from me, though I might turn you down and see if I can't spot someone closer(in the same zone at least). I'm also not averse to accepting donations for my trouble, but I neither demand nor expect them for my services.

In answer to the money-making dilemma that most whms face - our cloak spells(Invisible, Sneak, Deodorize) make mining an option for us long before some other jobs ever get the chance.
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#31 Mar 30 2005 at 12:44 PM Rating: Decent
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177 posts
Yeah that's all well and good for a low level whm, to become a miner. As you get higher in level those this doesn't really bring home the bacon so to speak. If you mine 24-7 with all that competetion in maybe a week you might earn 100-200k.

Have you looked at the cost to be a high level whm lately? Raise3 for the unlucky whm's before us was upto 3mil gil on many servers. On our's its now down to about 800k-1mil. Just for a raise spell. Not many whm's will be lucky enough to get a noble's tunic or the +1. The tunic is about 10mil and the +1 was 20mil last time I looked in the AH. The cloth needed to make these are about 5-7mil alone. With the cost of being a miner and after AH tax your looking at maybe a year of mining. No thanks.

I personally have never said pay me this much gil or I wont raise you, but a whm shouldn't have to ask in the first place. A thankyou and an amount of gil depending on what type of situation the whm is putting themself in, should be a customary practice of all people who ask for a raise. If you don't have the gil and nobody will pay for it then home point.

Lastnight is a perfect example of what I am talking about. My party went to Kuftal tunnel to fight some tigers for exp. We were there before anyone else came. Our Blm DC'd. While waiting for him to get online another party show'd up. The majority of that party didn't want to camp on top of us, since it is not only rude, but also since the monster's do an AOE paralyze is dangerous for both parties.

Two rude member's of that party decided that they didn't care and decide to pull and fight monster's on top of us. Since we had a Nin, Drk, and War for melee we didn't have a real puller. The drk though risked death on every pull and was our puller. When he got agro he had just enough time to run back to the camp without "claiming" the monster or he would have died. This rude party's thf thought I was rather funny to steal our monster and exp. Although what he did wasn't "against the rules of SE" it is behavior socially unacceptable.

What goes around comes around, I am a frim believer of this. Once again I was not let down, as thier party was wiped out by a Ladon, looks like Guiver's little brother. Thier Brd and Thf were the rude people in that party. The brd warped out, didnt see the whm, but was happy my blm friend managed to warp out alive also. Two dead bodies were left for us to dance happily on, and a beaten up Ladon for us to kill. I even got my level off it.

Now in this case I could have been the "bigger man", well in my case woman, and raised them. Their whm was not comming back to raise them, atleast not to my knowldge. Suddenly now that they needed something from us the said they were sorry and they didn't want to camp on top of us. Still didn't stop them from doing it, or killing stolen exp. I bet they were sorry, but why should I care? There isn't enough gil from all the players on every server combined to even make me give them a Raise1, let alone raise2 or 3.

Anyone who knows me, knows that I like to helpout friends whenever I can. If I am asked for help from someone who isn't a close friend, in a nice way, I try to help when I have the time. As my NIN said it best to me the other day though and I quote "I hope I never get on your bad side, it's a demon". I found it rather funny since it was not only very true but 100% accurate. So why should I be left there having to make that choice of to raise or not to raise?

Part of me felt really bad for them and wanted to raise them.
On the other hand, the whole reason why I am so crass and cold towards people I don't know, the whole reason I am very sarcastic and sometime mean (mean but truthful), is that we as people have to put up with enough crap in the real world. Why should I have to take it here? Isn't that the whole reason we are paying our 15-20 bucks a month for? So that we have a few hours of enjoyment, away from all that bs? Some people drink, others smoke crack, some play FF, everyone has their "thing". Some of them use it to escape reality, while others just enjoy it.

Point is why should I reward someone for "bad behavior" for lack of a better word. If it's my job as a whm to raise them, then I am sure I am the evil whm who wouldn't raise them, as I am sure they try to tell people and have them believe. Then again maybe they might think twice next time before they act this way towards some other poor party just trying to get exp.

It was nice that their whm messaged me up and said that he was sorry for that and it was only a few people in the party not everyone. Like I said my freind was their Blm so I already knew. It was a nice thing to do none the less.

When this type of thing happens daily in all server's I am sure, how could anyone question a whm asking for gil to take time out of their day to raise someone? I am always /anon, and don't ask for gil to raise someone, but also don't see anything wrong with a whm doing so. I personally think that it really sucks that this is what it has come to. That poor Pld didn't do anything but his job and paid the price of his party's actions. That's just how life is sometimes I guess.

90% of whm's are not greedy, and probally like to help, same as I do. The maybe 10% that are greedy and trying to make a profit off other's misfortunes I hope don't last long as a whm. Really though I don't see any other way to deal with this issue. Many people turn a blind eye, just as if someone was getting mugged or rapped. They may stop to watch for a minute or two, but quickly go on with their own business. I think peoples own morals play a part in how they choose to play their game.

To me I don't think the real issue is not a whm charging for a raise or not. It's why has things gotten to the point where a whm would charge for a raise? I don't know the answer to that question, or more importantly the solution to the problem. So really what other option does a whm have? I have been on both sides of a raise. Maybe the whm's who charge for a raise are doing so to fight back against all those times they have been ripped off, taken for granted, or some other reason. I can't say why since I am not them. It's clear though that many are charging for a raise or atleast considering it from the posts on this thread and other posts on the whm job forum.

Like I said before, it makes me sad that it has come to this, but really what can you do?
#32 Apr 02 2005 at 12:06 AM Rating: Decent
3 posts
I'd just like to say that I feel WHMs are "HEROS".
In my mind a "HERO" is someone that shows selflessness in times of "true" need. The WHM that uses their 2hr without hesitation. The WHM that stops to raise the random body. And above all, the WHM that travels/searches to raise a stranger they've never met. There are those of us out there who /SALUTE you HEROS! That said.. keeping in mind that Tele's are a service these HEROS offer to fund their supergear ^^ and whatnot, I offer my 2 cents ^.-

"Being a HERO isn't always easy. Sadly, if the deeds that define a true hero start to come with a cost then they no longer are a dead but become a service. HEROS do not provide services in times of need, HEROS produce deads."

Some may not be able to grasp this idea ;^^;

Need a raise? Send Torqued a /tell. Keep your checkbook at home.

************
Tel Holla - 500 gil
Tel Dem - 500 gil
Being a true HERO - priceless
************

At any rate, everyone show respect where respect is due. WHMs, for the most part, are true HEROS. /SALUTE



AZMON AKA TORQUED
#33 Apr 02 2005 at 10:45 AM Rating: Decent
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177 posts
Good point and even better arguement. I agree with the things you have said. I feel it's the first real valid arguement of why a whm shouldn't charge for a raise. Maybe the key point you hit on is respect? Not just respect for one type of job, but all jobs and all the other people who are playing this game. Seems we could use alot more of this.

That is also where I run into the problem with what you have said. It is a thin line between love and hate, and even thinner between Hero and fool. Where do you draw that line in the sand?
How many good "deads" as you call em (lol /poke) does a whm do before they to themself's become bitter and jaded? How many times do you let other's step on you and take advantage of your kindness, before you put your foot down? Isn't a random act of kindness just that? A random act, not the expected?

Show me one WHM who believe's it is their job to run around all day and help other's out and raise people. I will then show you a liar. I could understand maybe someone who has taken everyjob to 75, who has done every mission and quest in the game, and who has more gil then they can hold to maybe want to do something like this.

SE made this game so that we would have to work together, and help each other out. So it is really sad to see the lack of respect for your fellow players that occures in this game. To see how peoples greed and own self delusions have ripped apart the joy and fun that this game used to be about.

I don't know about you, but I don't mind doing a good deed every now and then. I will not however play the fool and let people take advantage of my kindness.

So once again I ask you. Where do you draw that line in the sand? Where "Hero" turns into Fool.
#34 Apr 03 2005 at 3:52 PM Rating: Decent
3 posts
I'd have to say there is no true line or even grey area when it comes to being a true hero. Balls to bone, you either are a true hero or are not. A hero cannot be made the fool by traveling to raise someone, then find they've already been taken care of. The fool will always be those who do not respect what a true WHM hero has to offer. The fools are those people that EXPECT or DEMAND to be saved and assume its every WHMs duty. RESPECT is whats missing, something I do not feel is replaced or suplemented with 500 gil. Possibly a movement aimed towards proper "raising edicate" should be made. Much like the "<Blind> <Invites> = <No thanks!>". There has to be a way to stress, to even new players, that what WHMs are doing is above and beyond the call of duty. ^^


I /SALUTE you WHMs!


AZMON AKA TORQUED
#35 Apr 09 2005 at 6:36 PM Rating: Default
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208 posts
KOLID Codyf is the most hated person in the game? hes my best friend!
Weird huh?
Anyways I agree with this. I went to the dunes once and about 4 people asked me for a raise at the same time.
Well I chose one which was a mistake

I went to go raise someone and there he was, dead. So I was going to do the normal thing and raise him. His name was fums.
Well, when I was done with the spell. . . 150 MP WASTED He not only declined it, but returned to his homepoint. Which just HAPPENED to be in Selbina. Oh well.
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#36 Apr 11 2005 at 1:51 PM Rating: Decent
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177 posts
When I was talking about fools, it was about whms becoming fools.

There are many things I get asked to help out with daily as a whm. Come raise me, we need a whm for promy or dynamsis, help me get my coffer key, genkai 1 paper, ect. I just find it odd that so many people know to send a tell and ask for help, yet rarely do these same people return the favor.

That's what I am talking about when I say some people will use whm's to get what they need done. I think it is foolish to help people over and over again without getting any help in return from them. It's not that I believe if I help someone that they owe me something. However If you feel that you can consistantly msg me up whenever you need a favor, I should be able to do the same.

Most of the people posting here seem to be lower level players. Since they mostly talking about raising in the dunes. So it will be harder for them to fully understand what I am saying since its like 40-60 levels above them. As you go higher in the game you will see how things change.

As for the lack of respect and making a point to people, I think that people charging for a raise makes a pretty clear statement that something is wrong. Granted there probally are a few greedy whm's who are just trying to make gil by doing this. Maybe it's some of our local retards trying to one up their loser friends, in the battle to be the most hated. I doubt that this will be the case of the majority of whm's who charge for a raise.

Another thing is most people at the higher levels usually have enough respect and understanding of the game that they already know to offer gil for a raise. That or they have a friend who is a whm who will come raise them, they don't need to stand around (well in that case lay around since they are dead) and bother people for a raise.
#37 Apr 11 2005 at 4:11 PM Rating: Decent
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61 posts
LOL....fun how this topic has wondered a bit, but I wanted to reply to Moev's post.

I'm the sort of person who would promise to help someone get the Ninja flag or do a quick AF run if I have the time, and not even ask for or just turn down any payment. It is my hope that they would "pay it forward" and maybe in a small way people would get a bit more polite...heaven knows we need it (I got yelled at to "stop training" in the Citidel because my party killed a Fallen Mage that was pulled by an inconsiderate thief--who was obviously not with me for being 10 levels lower--to the entrance...very very odd).

But I have had an experience where I helped out a group of people from Level 1 do everything...from missions, to AF quests, to everything. And now they are the same level as I am...they're too good to even talk to me, let alone invite me to xp or anything. I'm starting to understand why some of my high-level friends are so hesitant to help out people. It seems as if it's not worth it sometimes.

Edited, Mon Apr 11 17:18:53 2005 by DarleneFFXI
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#38 Apr 11 2005 at 6:57 PM Rating: Default
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208 posts
Do you have the party members pay u 500 gil? Because what if the guy is like one of those people who don't pay once they get raised? like ya know the British kind?

Britain Stinks. Literally. Tell me when there's one sunny day in London.
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KWEH!
#39 Apr 11 2005 at 7:00 PM Rating: Default
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208 posts
I'm not sure anymore, its a whm's job to raise people in their party I guess. it doesnt hurt to MPK the guy if he doesnt say thank you, then say "well you know what? I guess i messed up, here let me trade you 5k. . . oh wait! your dead! ha! thats too bad i guess." Get on a chocobo, step all over him then get off then MPK someone near him.

No. . . i didnt do that. .. .

. .. .stop. . . i didnt. . .
...well maybe once. . .
Shut up!
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KWEH!
#40 Apr 11 2005 at 7:01 PM Rating: Default
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208 posts
I'm not sure anymore, its a whm's job to raise people in their party I guess. it doesnt hurt to MPK the guy if he doesnt say thank you, then say "well you know what? I guess i messed up, here let me trade you 5k. . . oh wait! your dead! ha! thats too bad i guess." Get on a chocobo, step all over him then get off then MPK someone near him.

No. . . i didnt do that. .. .

. .. .stop. . . i didnt. . .
...well maybe once. . .
Shut up!
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KWEH!
#41 Apr 13 2005 at 2:44 PM Rating: Decent
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177 posts
First off Pande your my favorite ****** lol. Your posts are just funny.

I don't think this posting has strayed off topic at all. This issue is to charge or not for a raise. I have pointed out several reasons why not just whms but alot of high level players wont help. If they do help it is only for gil.

Darlene it's good that your starting to see why alot of us are like this. Just for the record almost daily i do my random act of kindness. Like I said in my last post as you get higher in levels you will see for yourself what I am talking about.
#42 Apr 15 2005 at 6:56 PM Rating: Decent
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61 posts
I suppose I don't charge for a raise, though I would accept payment for a chocobo or some such. And if my LS sends out a call for a raise, I've been known to travel very far (I think the most interesting was to half-moon area inside the canal...got there in one sneak) to rescue a friend. But moreover, I only raise people if they tell me they want it--I just hate casting raise on someone who would refuse it. Or even worse, someone who's afk and will soon HP. And I've grown to the opinion that I will not raise someone in a party who decided they didn't want to invite a white mage.

What I find annoying are people who come up to me out of the blue and demand powerleveling, gil or whatever. Honestly, pl'ing is so annoying, I'd only do it for people who are good friends. But I will not help someone who will not help themselves too... how many have heard "farming takes too long...." from a begger?
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#43 Apr 15 2005 at 7:50 PM Rating: Decent
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177 posts
See your talking about a LS member or a friend. That's a whole other story to me. I talking about some random person I don't know, who wants a raise. I don't charge my friends for tele's, and if I charged for a raise I wouldn't charge someone I knew well.

Can't say that I have heard alot from beggers since I tend to blacklist them asap.
#44 Apr 17 2005 at 4:30 PM Rating: Default
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208 posts
Ls members...*shiver*

I had an LS member who wouldnt stop annoying me, because i said once that i was busy and couln't help her. OMFG SHE FLIPPED! Once I was in Eldieme Neorcrops (whatever) and then she started talking about something about...i dont know i wasnt listening... anyways out of nowhere she wants me to get her all of the kazham keys. -.- i said sry, cant, busy. SHE GOES WILD and makes her own LS that has a really corny name

im sweating because its such nice weather outside, what do u think the weather will be tomorrow?

Moogles are too small to carry all the furniture from country to country...moo

*tries to change the subject*
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KWEH!
#45 Apr 28 2005 at 9:59 PM Rating: Decent
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175 posts
I hate Cowbla PTed with her the other night trying to level my WAR the first thing she does it get a link of pugs. She got so many people killed a few hours before because she drew huge chains that made some zone out into Qufim. I was like wtf they were lucky they had a PL because one guy died like 5 times in 10 minutes.
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#46 Apr 29 2005 at 12:37 PM Rating: Default
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208 posts
Colbwa? Big Jerk. I think I said that he was cool, PSSH. Funny thing happened though.

I was selling Leaping Boots and he said ok i'll take them. When I was about to trade iwth ihm he says "oooo ha nvm i didnt know I had leaping boots already!"

Funny thing happened next.

Some guy had offered me 5 million gil for them, because I had once PLed him for free a lot, so i Said CTRL R 5 MIL GIL, YOU SERIOUS?

Turns out the reply went to Colbwa :)

Then, i was telling my friend, qqwerty, that I just got 4 million gil for him (since i give everything to him) Turns out I pressed CTRL R too many times and it went to Colbwa AGAIN!

So I'm glad he was being a jerk to me. Perfect timing Colbwa. Thanks again!
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#47 Apr 30 2005 at 4:30 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm a 43 WHM and don't charge for raises unless it's so far out of my way I'd need to chocobo over there. Any WHM who charges for a raise is a greedy n00b who can't make money any other way.

If you want to exploit your job (yes, that's what charging for raises is) then go Tele-Taxi. I'm not saying Tele's should be free but if I'm going to Dem, Holla or Mea and I see people shouting I'll tele them for free since it's not out of my way.

I do agree with the OP's point of not having to be /anon everywhere. Though if I'm busy I just politely respond {I'm sorry, I'm busy right now.} and go on with my buisness.

-Cyp
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#48 Apr 30 2005 at 6:52 PM Rating: Decent
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5,159 posts
Quote:
I do agree with the OP's point of not having to be /anon everywhere. Though if I'm busy I just politely respond {I'm sorry, I'm busy right now.} and go on with my buisness.


Exactly. The perfect response to a situation where someone asks for a raise and you can't/won't give them one: {I'm sorry. I'm busy now.}

Or better yet, you could put in your search comment: {Raise} {I'm sorry. I'm busy now.} {Take care.}

Then you could just head off the raise tells altogether, at least for the people who bother reading search comments (surprisingly few).

Edited, Dec 28th 2006 4:15pm by bismarckmajivo
#49 May 02 2005 at 5:13 AM Rating: Decent
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177 posts
You think that would be enough wouldn't you? Still people ask anyway, or after you say no the ask again and again. Your a 42 whm... Like I said before to other people, the game changes as you get higher in levels. You will findout for yourself if when you make it that high.

Go pay 3 mil for raise 3 like alot of whms had to do, then tell me you think getting paid for a raise is exploiting your job. 3mil is probally worth more then all your gear. I've got 10Mil of gear on my back and its just ok gear. Need 20mil more to have good gear.

So getting 500gil to raise someone is nothing to me. The amount isn't the point even. It's a respect thing. Not some fake thanks so much or your the best. Something you have to show for wasting your time to do someone else a favor. I've been personally given from 500gil - 1.2mil for a raise. Never asked for it, but I'd be stupid not to take it.

Anyway this topic is old and boring now. See you again.
#50 May 03 2005 at 9:49 PM Rating: Decent
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So you're saying because I need to spend more money to do my job right, I should abuse one of the few advantages to being a White Mage? Some may not call asking for, well in this case, demanding gil for a spell abusing your job. I do. If you have war as a main/sub and you see someone get aggro, would you demand gil after you provoke it off them? No, most wouldn't.

There's a large differance between talking about raising random people and raising people in xp pts and such. If you're a high level Whm and your in an xp pt and the tank dies OF COURSE you'd raise III him. If you walk by a random dead person in the dunes you'd use raise I. Don't take it out on newer people because high level gear/spells cost more.

Also, as to saying all my gear probably isn't worth 3mil, that's an illogical statement. That would be like me being angry because the levl 12 robe is worth more than the lvl 40 Ryl.Sqr. Robe.

Don't take me the woring way, I'm not saying you should do anything different. I'm also saying even if EVERY other Whm on ther server demands 500gil per raise, I still won't.

Edit; Raise III is currently going for 500k and there are two in the AH...

-Cyp

Edited, Wed May 4 15:30:40 2005 by CyprusFFXI
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{White Mage} {Power}
#51 May 07 2005 at 9:07 AM Rating: Decent
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177 posts
Your whole post was an "Illogical statement". As for your edit. I said go pay 3mil for a raise like some whms had to do, didn't say that was the current price. In 30 levels reread this post and see if you still feel the same way. Exp is even easier for you now.

Personally I could care less if whms charge or not for a raise. The only thing I've said is there are a ton of people who think it's a whm's job to raise them, which it is not. So I can totally see why some of them would start charging. If the person doesn't want to pay... then don't. Find a whm who will do it for free or homepoint.

With all the problems in the game in every server, like buying and selling of gil, it's funny how this is such a problem. People are willing to pay for a tele, coffer keys, genkai, and help with other things. I don't see how asking someone for a favor same as the other things are doing anything wrong or exploiting your job.

If your doing an OH run and need a Ninja you would pay them for their time and shihei's to help. So any ninja who does this is exploiting their job? No, and neither is a whm who asks to be paid for their time to raise someone.

Anyway now i'm very bored of this topic, so I am done with this thread. Bye.
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