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Discrimination on Phoenix?Follow

#1 Sep 21 2004 at 1:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Ok, now I know that this will be a slight rant, but I feel the need to start a thread on it anyway.

We all know that there is a lot of anti-Japanese sentiment on Phoenix. It is a sad fact, but true. Personally, I have been in several all JP parties, and it is always a very pleasant experience. I have never come across any reason why the NA and JP players (as well as the new European ones) cannot live in peace and harmony in our little world.

Until today.

/begin rant

I was excavating in Tahrongi Canyon (my gil-maker of choice...man do I hate fishing!). I was standing over an excavating site, about to use my pickaxe, when a player came along and starting digging with her pickaxe on top of me. Now, I am not one to go into the excavation/mining etiquite debate. Whatever, she got out her pickaxe faster than I did. So I turned around to move on. As I was walking away, she /slapped me! Twice! I sent her a tell, asking why she had done that. I had not only been at that point first, I had also been in the area first, so technically, if there really was anyone in the wrong, it would have been her. I got a tell back all in Japanese script, so I sent the "I don't speak any Japanese" translate text back to her.

I was talking to a friend about it later who told me that there are a lot of JP players that he has talked to that are extremely competetive about mining/fishing/excavating/farming/what have you. He said they see all NA players as newbs because we got FFXI a year and a half after they did, and they deserve to have more rights to things because of this. Now, obviously, since I don't speak Japanese, I don't know if this is the case in this instance. I was, however, extremely offended by her actions, seeing that I took the higher ground and walked away rather than making an issue out of the matter.

/end rant

So this brings me to my ultimate question: We NA players are constantly accused of being prejudiced against the JP players. But has anyone had similar experiences to mine? And is there a way to combat these kind of things? I searched for over 10 minutes through the autotranslate function to try to find a way to ask this person why she had slapped me, but couldn't find a way that made sense. Does anyone else ever wish the autotranslate function would be expanded so that these types of situations can be resolved?

I really just want us all to get along. I know that sounds really after-school-special-ish, but it's true. Any experiences, stories, or ideas that could help combat ALL prejudice in FFXI, please post here.
#2 Sep 21 2004 at 1:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Of course there is discimination. The japanese people on all servers view the NA like we invaded their perfect world. There are the jpn who enjoy the NA(I know many who are cool people) and there are the jpn who hate the NA. These are the ones with "JPN party only" in their names. I've been invited to all jpn party and someone joins who doesnt like NA, and they ask if I can leave or they leave(jpn leader kicked them out :P). I don't think there will ever not be people who don't like NA. BTW next time ask the person not to take your points. use translator like (please)(Stop!)(steal) and if it continues call a GM for harassment.
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#3 Sep 21 2004 at 2:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Personally i don't have any problems with Japanese players or NA players.I am a canadian player and i have started a linkshell where i have both japanese and NA players in it.I also sent a tell once to A japanese player and the leader of the party filled up the spot.Then the japanese player started saying thats why he hated NA players.I then proceeded to say that i was sorry and how some NA are very ignorant but i told him not to stereotype us because of a few people.He then after about 5 minutes of talking that he was sorry and all that other Jazz.SO i say Can't we all just get along
#4 Sep 21 2004 at 7:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I really just want us all to get along. I know that sounds really after-school-special-ish, but it's true. Any experiences, stories, or ideas that could help combat ALL prejudice in FFXI, please post here.

If you really wanted us to all get along, you wouldn't have mentioned the Japanese in your post.

Your post is simply about one person who was inconsiderate of another. There is no indication based on what you wrote that the JP knew you were NA. That said, there is no argument for discrimination. Starting threads with accusations against a whole country like this will only worsen the situation.

It's also possible that, due to lag, the JP ended up at the mining point first. The language barrier is unfortunate in this case since the two of you were not able to resolve the problem amongst yourselves.

There are Japanese scumbags and there are American scumbags. Regardless of their nationality, dealing with someone like that sucks. The best thing you can do is try to spread as much kindness as possible and not create more cross-nationality animosity.
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#5 Sep 21 2004 at 8:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
These are the ones with "JPN party only" in their names. I've been invited to all jpn party and someone joins who doesnt like NA, and they ask if I can leave or they leave(jpn leader kicked them out :P).

I actually got into one of these parties because I explained to them with my poor romaji skills that I understand Japanese courtesy and that my girlfriend is Japanese. ;)

I started learning Japanese so I could talk with the JP players on FFXI. A few months after that, I met this girl. All in all, it's been really great to be able to get my point across most of the time.^^
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#6 Sep 22 2004 at 12:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Your post is simply about one person who was inconsiderate of another. There is no indication based on what you wrote that the JP knew you were NA. That said, there is no argument for discrimination. Starting threads with accusations against a whole country like this will only worsen the situation.


You're right.

Honestly, I have come across so many NA players being rude to JP players lately that I guess I just expected the same back...and I guess that makes me just as guilty. I shouldn't have allowed my friend's stories about JP players influence how I felt in this situation. Thanks for setting me straight.

However, although there possibly could have been lag issues, that still does not justify slapping me, IMHO. That was just plain rude. I reserve slaps for nasty teenage boys who type sexual emotes.
#7 Sep 22 2004 at 1:46 AM Rating: Decent
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When it comes to mining/harvesting etc its sometimes hard to know who came first to a mining point. I have mined some with my gf and she's sitting next to me. On my screen I can be 3-4 seconds before her but we both think we are first to get to a spot.

Knowing this is vital if you want to keep cool doing some mining. Understand that people might belive they are first on a spot, make a /bow if you're both on a close call and find another spot to mine. I bet the person will leave you be at your new spot. People aren't asses most of the time, give it a shot and you will make some new friends.

Ofcourse, there are point stealers but there isn't much you can do about it except trying to explain why its wrong and go on with your work.
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#8 Sep 22 2004 at 2:46 PM Rating: Good
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I am NA, and I am going to get rated down for this, but damn me, I am going to say it. Here are my experiences with JP parties.

1. JP/NA have all evened out in pt exp. All are pretty good.

2. With JP, nice as hell in a pt, when it comes to gil ie. NM camping or farming or mining etc., all bets are off, it's best man get's the gil. They will happily spend hours helping you get a job, but are very competitive with gil.

3. 99% of the time ---> AT LEAST THEY ARE POLITE! (My greatest beef with NA, not all, but a lot, just poor manners!)

My two cents, I hate bad manners.
#9 Sep 22 2004 at 3:05 PM Rating: Decent
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double posts suck, so scroll on down, haha

Edited, Wed Sep 22 16:06:19 2004 by NativeGrrl
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#10 Sep 22 2004 at 3:05 PM Rating: Decent
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wow.

yikes, as a Japanese American girl I can say that overall, language barrier is a huge issue. Set that aside though, and in many cases I've encountered more rude NA Players than JPN ones, and that's even when the JPN players have no clue that I understand the language.

I left carbuncle server because of its overwhelming NA/ English speaking anti Japanese sentiment, and I'd hate to see thhat happen on this server. Rude people are rude no matter what culture, and the bigger issue is not whether Yokozunasama is being rude to me as much as how am I treating other players?

Personally from my perspective, there has been more discrimination towards JPN players than from JPN Players. Thats just my solitary exp, however, I've sat in parties where people ragged on JPN players in general for hours until I told them I was JPN-AM... I just think yah, that player is blist worthy and move on. And yeah, I blist players from any nationality.

Half of it is language barrier.
http://shigemo.com/FFXI/nihongo_guide.html is a great basic guide that goes beyond auto translators....

And hey, I love you all, but next time some one is rude to you, call them on it. If they don't apologize, blist them and move on. you really do have better things to do. Like read my letters in the forumn, haha


peace.

^^
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#11 Sep 22 2004 at 11:39 PM Rating: Decent
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hmmmmm I have never had a JP player ever be nothing be kind but I know alot of NA's who seem to hate JP player for some reason :/. Granted I have never been invite into a JP unless a friend recommended me so my knowlege is limited. But remember people everyone in this game (besides bots) are human no matter what race they are so lets just get along with each and just play it like a game not a freakin debate on morals :P
#12 Sep 23 2004 at 12:14 AM Rating: Decent
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when ever this happens to me i always first send them a tell giving them the opportunity to voice their opinion but then i always get the @#%^ You! in japanese. This last part even happens as soon as i enter a area. So to keep my own sanity i have started to respond with {I'm sorry i'm busy} {hand} {inside} {trousers} {jerkin} {incrediably tuff} {worm}. Needless to say this makes me feel better and usually leaves them speachless. Take care.

PS If u see Calabogh in game...Holla. Ill holla back!
#13 Sep 23 2004 at 1:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Arigatou gozaimasu, Paksenarrion.

That link was usefull. I will try to make use of it when I end up in a JP party, which hasn't happened much sadly. I'd love to experience a party with JP players but I haven't got an invite yet.. probably because I'm a melee >.<

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#14 Sep 23 2004 at 6:01 AM Rating: Decent
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The few rude Japanese players that I've met have been rude because they were @#%^s, not beacause they were Japanese.
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#15 Sep 23 2004 at 12:53 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't understand why I would get rated down for pointing out the discrimination in the post about discrimination lol

Is there really someone who disagrees with my thoughts? I would be happy to discuss if you decide to actually post. The "us and them" mentality is a good way to screw up relationships between any two groups.
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#16 Sep 23 2004 at 3:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I don't understand why I would get rated down for pointing out the discrimination in the post about discrimination lol

Is there really someone who disagrees with my thoughts? I would be happy to discuss if you decide to actually post. The "us and them" mentality is a good way to screw up relationships between any two groups.


It wasn't me that rated you down...if you scoll up you'll see that I agreed with your original post.

Also, Pakse, thanks for the link...I bookmarked it in my laptop, hopefully it will be helpful if I run into another misunderstanding with a Japanese player.

The point of my posting this story to begin with was to try and help END discrimination...even though I didn't realize at the time that I was discriminating. I'm sorry...I'm not the type that is too proud to admit when I have been wrong. Please, guys, don't flame at each other or rate each other down...maybe we could use this thread as a place to post more helpful links, like the one Pakse posted.
#17 Sep 23 2004 at 4:10 PM Rating: Decent
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*hugs Arieanna.*

As is typical for a LT member, (save for Vivec, that subligar swathed slut) every encounter I've had with you has been enjoyable, and I wouldn't hesitate to punch the teeth out of any player who accused you of being discriminatory, at least judging by how I've seen you play. We all have flaws and areas in which we could grow as individuals, and better is the person who faces hers and learns from them than the self made paragons.


Except me of course. I am naturally perfect. Sorry, but it's true. I never make a mist-*thwap*

ow.
Stupid Ronfaure tree, watch where you are going.

I'll discuss another area of discrimantion in a different thread soon, though.
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#18 Sep 23 2004 at 4:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Great link... I have been in a few JP parties and they have been awesome.... I will definetly be using that guide next time I'm in one.

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Edited, Thu Sep 23 17:22:09 2004 by Bautista
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#19 Sep 26 2004 at 12:48 AM Rating: Decent
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W00T Bautista! How ya been, haven't seen you much lately. ><
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#20 Sep 26 2004 at 3:19 AM Rating: Decent
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I have been in several JP parties, and never been able to communicate to them, i will book mark that link and print it out for when i pt with jps, may come in handy, as far as this thread goes, i found that most jps are "JP ONLY" cause they dont want to deal with the language barrier, I have run across some jps that just dont like NAs, and the other way around. I spent 11 months in Japan on Okinawa, in Tokyo, Gatemba, Mt. Fuji and the southern coast of Mainland Japan (cant remember name of town) and i have found that out of all the jps ive met they have been friendly and willing to help to the best of the extent, not speaking any japanese and trying to find the right train to take is kinda hard, but while i was over there i have never had anybody be outright rude to me, unlike in america.
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#21 Sep 26 2004 at 3:31 AM Rating: Good
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There are good and bad. For every NA player who is willing to call a japanese a terrible name or refuse to get along, you're going to find a japanese player who thinks many nasty things about NA.

People are people... it just boils down to who they are. All jp are not rude, or nice. All na are not rude, or nice. Judge people on an individual basis.

I have had terrible experiences with people of both nationalities and I have had wonderful ones.

Yesterday, for instance, I went to explore oldton movalpolos. I was just looking around, and decided to kill a moblin for fun. Apparently this particular kind of moblin was hunted to extinction for something it drops. I went to kill it, pulled out my weapons, and ran towards it. Suddenly, a little taru casts stun on it, stealing it away from me. In the say channel, I see "HAHAHAHAH" /laugh /laugh... the guy thought it was hilarious. Little NA taru drk... really rude. Decided it would be fun to steal mobs from in front of me repeatedly for some reason.

I then went down further in the place. I saw a 75 jp bard killing an nm bugbear. I asked her if it was a mission or quest nm, and she said {Quest}. So I asked if she spoke english. She said "Shut up noobee."
So I blisted her and walked away.

One NA jerk and one JP jerk, all in 5 minutes.

On the other side of the spectrum, I met 2 wonderful players yesterday, went out of their ways to help me out. One NA and one JP.

So... I really don't think it matters. Play however you want to be perceived. Abandon all racial stereotypes yourself, and hope everyone else does the same. Harbor no hatred or discrimination, and shed preconceived notions. Wait for someone to act before you make your opinion about them, and hope they do the same. If they don't then they aren't worth your time.
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#22 Sep 26 2004 at 4:07 AM Rating: Decent
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there is.. but it is everywhere in the world. such is the beast known as human. i myself have partyed with only one JP player.. and i must say it was quite enjoyable. as was my year tour on Okinawa, Japan. i was there for a tour of duty. I am a Marine and we all need to have a tour over seas so i knocked it out right away as my first duty station. i am happy to report that i never ran into a rude JP. also the cab drivers would help me learn some japaness.... witch i forgot soon after geting to my destanation.... >_> i blame the drink for that. i printed out the info from that link and i will be puting it to good use. i knew how to say some of it already.. just couldnt type it. now ill be glad to be in a party with JPs. i just hope they can figure out a way to say if im main tain or not. hehehe...

anyway that is my 2 gil from a guy in the digital cammies.
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#23 Sep 26 2004 at 4:24 AM Rating: Decent
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semper fi Meckruco, former Marine also ^^, was on UDP to Okinawa, but got extended due to Iraq, as i said before, the whole time i was there i never met a rude jp
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#24 Sep 27 2004 at 7:56 PM Rating: Decent
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lol. I think Japanese feel somewhat superior to Americans dependant on their attitude. Obviously, doubious ranting and cursing by NA players has not increased our compatability.

I speak some Japanese and can read some kanji and hiragana. I dont think it oges over well with the Japanese when I tell the mI am Chinese either. soo....

I don't see that many "NA PT ONLY" Signs up. So, It seems safe to assume that JPN players have either had bad experiences and/or don't like the American attitude towards them so they retaliate.

I have no clue what I just said so dont worry about it!!
/wave Oren.

Nice guide Paksen! Can you find a guide in Chinese so these people can learn what my friends are saying? This whole language barrier thing is trivial.
Solution: I'm going to sleep....


Edited, Mon Sep 27 20:57:19 2004 by AgentLee
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