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#27 Oct 09 2013 at 8:09 AM Rating: Good
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I suppose the timing could work thinking about it, and we know Scarlett Witch is in Age of Ultron, which will be released around the same time as S3 of Agent of Shield will be coming out. If the rumours of Ultron being an American Military product to replace the Avengers are true, then there is an element of metahuman paranoia there, so wouldn't it be kinda cool if Avengers 2 finished with M Day which would then lead into the Civil War storyline?
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#28 Oct 09 2013 at 8:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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While they certainly could do a Civil War in the near future, such an event would immensely benefit from them having the legal rights for Spider-Man, the FF and the X-Men. Right now the participants would be to few to really call it a war. Smiley: lol And Spider-Man (or Daredevil for that matter) could help with the secret identity conflict.
Is this even a realistic scenario at this point? I mean Marvel Studios buying the movie rights for those other characters.

And I would really love Onslaught or the Age of Apocalypse on the big screen but I don't think that could happen. Smiley: frown
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#29 Oct 09 2013 at 8:39 AM Rating: Good
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Ultron being a military creation makes a lot of sense in the current universe. Right now, the most powerful military in the world has to rely on an extra-governmental force to handle the most-significant threats to their safety.

The Iron Man movies show off just how badly they wanted the IM armor, how much significance they put on it, and how insufficient it was. So, what, are we supposed to believe they wouldn't do everything in their power to get themselves their own House Party protocol, with AI-controlled armor to replace their drones? Not a chance. They'll want a Jarvis, and they'll want their Jarvis to be able to control the robotic body.

Then we add in the Hulk movie (and CA), and we know how badly the military wants super soldiers.

So, realistically, the only possible thing from preventing them from creating Ultron is the question of whether or not they have that capacity. But creating a mad AI? Not surprising.

Jarvis was created to be Tony's other half, essentially. I remember them talking about the keyboard Tony uses to interface with his computer systems; how the language he and Jarvis use to communicate is unique to them. And there are a lot of moments in the movies that show off Jarvis' values and morality, because Tony clearly wanted him to be a whole being. A military creation probably isn't going to be created with that kind of eloquence or poetry, and its sentience probably isn't going to be created with the mission of making it a thinking, feeling person. It's going to be engineered specifically for combat (when Jarvis was something added on to Jarvis' systems).

I'll be interested to see what they do with Jarvis in that movie. I really wish he got more "screen time," for lack of a better word. I think he's this incredibly fascinating character (like EDI in Mass Effect), and we don't get enough of him.

[EDIT]

Quote:
While they certainly could do a Civil War in the near future, such an event would immensely benefit from them having the legal rights for Spider-Man, the FF and the X-Men. Right now the participants would be to few to really call it a war. Smiley: lol And Spider-Man (or Daredevil for that matter) could help with the secret identity conflict.
Is this even a realistic scenario at this point? I mean Marvel Studios buying the movie rights for those other characters.


I don't doubt it would have essentially nothing to do with identities, in this universe. But a similar conflict could easily be engineered. Imagine if the government passed a law describing supers as being military-grade weaponry, and gave the government discretion to overrode their personhood with regards to the law? You know, essentially exactly how the military has been treating Banner this entire time?

Yeah, that could definitely cause a big conflict. Don't need an army of supers, just need a group of heroes large enough to split into two and still let them royally F- things up.

It wouldn't be a Civil War on par with the comic version, of course. No chance. But the movie universe just won't have nearly that level of characters, ever, for unsurprising reasons. Think about how underwhelming film 3 of X-Men was. So many characters, so few reasons to care about any of them...

Edited, Oct 9th 2013 10:44am by idiggory
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#30 Oct 09 2013 at 9:25 AM Rating: Good
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Last night the head SHIELD lady (the black one) said to the head SHIELD guy (the one that looks like Maxwell Smart) something about him having died before.

What's that all about?
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#31 Oct 09 2013 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
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Clark Gregg's character, Phil Coulson?

Did you see the Avengers?
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#32 Oct 09 2013 at 11:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Honestly? While I see them using plot elements from past/existing storylines, I think it's a bit of fancy to expect that they'll "do <storyline>" in the films. They wont do Civil War, or House of M, or whatever. There are just too many costs involved (not just character rights, but story rights as well). It makes far more sense to write their own stories instead. That way you introduce something "new" and you don't have masses of fanboys telling them that they did <storyline> wrong.

Given the ending of Avengers, the next plot line will involve Thanos. I think that'll keep them busy for several years of film making. While they may certainly inject elements of the whole "control vs liberty" angle with regard to supers along the way, I just don't see them committing to an entire universe (or even sub universe) story arc around just that. You have to remember that what works in a monthly comic series wont necessarily work in a series of connected films. Fans want battles against super powered opponents and each film has to have a relatively self contained plot. This does not preclude individual films containing aspects of the Civil War theme, but I don't see them moving that far away from the "real world" with their entire franchise. Having some kind of open war would block more storyline possibilities than it would open up. Again, what may be neato to do in a comic book format, wont work in films.

They wont do anything that requires large scale global changes to the universe. As long as they stick to that baseline, they can do independent films within the Marvel umbrella (FF, Xmen, Spiderman, Avengers, etc) and allow a reasonable assumption that this is all happening in the same world. Once you do a major global change in one film (like Civil War), you're stuck reflecting that reality in every other film in the same universe (or just saying that it's a different universe which isn't as fun for the viewers). I don't see them writing themselves into a corner like that. I mean, I try not to underestimate the ability of writers to do just that, but it would be foolish for them to do so. The 1% of their audience who would go "Cool! They're doing Civil War" would be overshadowed by the other 99% who would not like the fact that their heroes aren't in "their world" anymore, and then wonder why the changes in one film are ignored in another, etc. It's just a bad idea IMO. Stick to a baseline that fits in a single world. Refrain from global changes. That's how they should proceed.
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#33 Oct 09 2013 at 11:46 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Clark Gregg's character, Phil Coulson?

Did you see the Avengers?

Yeah, that's the guy. k, I did see the Avengers. That was the guy Loki killed.

I don't remember him reminding me so much of Maxwell Smart in The Avengers.
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#34 Oct 09 2013 at 12:55 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Clark Gregg's character, Phil Coulson?

Did you see the Avengers?

Yeah, that's the guy. k, I did see the Avengers. That was the guy Loki killed.

I don't remember him reminding me so much of Maxwell Smart in The Avengers.


Smiley: lolSmiley: lolSmiley: lol

He's been in all the movies except Hulk, Iron Man 3, and Captain America.
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#35 Oct 09 2013 at 12:57 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Given the ending of Avengers, the next plot line will involve Thanos.


Thanos, at this point, seems like a pretty obvious setup for Guardians of the Galaxy, since Avengers 2's villain is confirmed as Ultron. Would be weird to introduce Thanos now and wait until P3 for him to be relevant.
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#36 Oct 09 2013 at 1:38 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Quote:
Given the ending of Avengers, the next plot line will involve Thanos.


Thanos, at this point, seems like a pretty obvious setup for Guardians of the Galaxy, since Avengers 2's villain is confirmed as Ultron. Would be weird to introduce Thanos now and wait until P3 for him to be relevant.


Unless they set it up as Thanos being the creator of Ultron instead of Henry Pym, since Ant Man won't be in this movie.
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#37 Oct 09 2013 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Elinda wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Clark Gregg's character, Phil Coulson?

Did you see the Avengers?

Yeah, that's the guy. k, I did see the Avengers. That was the guy Loki killed.

I don't remember him reminding me so much of Maxwell Smart in The Avengers.


Smiley: lolSmiley: lolSmiley: lol

He's been in all the movies except Hulk, Iron Man 3, and Captain America.

What can I say, he's rather nondescript.
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#38 Oct 09 2013 at 1:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Quote:
Given the ending of Avengers, the next plot line will involve Thanos.


Thanos, at this point, seems like a pretty obvious setup for Guardians of the Galaxy, since Avengers 2's villain is confirmed as Ultron. Would be weird to introduce Thanos now and wait until P3 for him to be relevant.


Unless they set it up as Thanos being the creator of Ultron instead of Henry Pym, since Ant Man won't be in this movie.


/shrug

Or any of a number of different ways they could use him. What would be odd would be the reveal at the end of Avengers and then him having nothing at all to do with A2. People would be like "What was with that guy they foreshadowed in the last film?". Remember that in the film format, much of your audience isn't going to be watching every film or following a story arc that crosses several films. So you can have common elements that cross over, but trying to tell part of a story in one, then another part in another, etc isn't going to work well. Each has to be its own self contained story. Cross over elements/references really have to be restricted to just bonus stuff that those who watched the other film(s) will get, but wont cause a plot gap for those who didn't.
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#39 Oct 09 2013 at 1:56 PM Rating: Good
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Most people don't stay to the end of the credits unless they know there's going to be that scene, so that's not really an issue.

And up until now, ALL of those little snippets have been used to hype other movies, in general. Hulk hyped Iron Man. Iron Man hyped Avengers. Iron Man 2 hyped Thor. Captain America established the base premise for Avengers. Avengers, seemingly, hypes GotG (which is a good move, because it's easily the outlier here).
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#40 Oct 09 2013 at 3:33 PM Rating: Good
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Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
Unless they set it up as Thanos being the creator of Ultron instead of Henry Pym, since Ant Man won't be in this movie.
Ultron not being created by Pym just makes me think this is just a random robot with the same name, so I can't really say I care too much who creates him. Thanos, Stark, Demolition Man. It's all the same.
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#41 Oct 09 2013 at 11:43 PM Rating: Good
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Thanos, at this point, seems like a pretty obvious setup for Guardians of the Galaxy, since Avengers 2's villain is confirmed as Ultron. Would be weird to introduce Thanos now and wait until P3 for him to be relevant.


While Thanos will certainly play a part in GoTG, he's not the big bad. Ultron is confirmed as the big bad in A2. The Avenger's will not fight Thanos until Avenger's 3.
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#42 Oct 10 2013 at 6:12 AM Rating: Good
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Omegavegeta wrote:
Quote:
Thanos, at this point, seems like a pretty obvious setup for Guardians of the Galaxy, since Avengers 2's villain is confirmed as Ultron. Would be weird to introduce Thanos now and wait until P3 for him to be relevant.


While Thanos will certainly play a part in GoTG, he's not the big bad. Ultron is confirmed as the big bad in A2. The Avenger's will not fight Thanos until Avenger's 3.


With this style of universe, that just sounds like a TERRIBLE decision to me. They don't have the benefit of playing with the timelines like the comics do, with the sheer potential for additional side stories and such.

The whole "we sort of delayed the destruction of the world until the future" theme just doesn't work as well in a movie format, imo.
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#43 Oct 10 2013 at 2:51 PM Rating: Good
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Well, the whole massive universe aspect of comics was going to be difficult to portray in movies no matter what they did.
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#44 Oct 10 2013 at 4:22 PM Rating: Good
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I know, but there are definitely ways to get around it. So far, they've been really smart. It's a really tight, concise plot flow with a well-used cast of characters, in general. Incredible Hulk is their biggest weakness (taking place over the course of Iron Man 1, Iron Man 2, and Thor).

Introducing Thanos as a villain and not using him as a real asset until an entirely new phase just doesn't seem like their style.

I just think that people would be bored of him if he only makes an appearance in GOTG next phase. And if he makes appearances in more, they might be sick of him.
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#45 Oct 10 2013 at 7:29 PM Rating: Excellent
I think Thanos is ultimately going to be revealed to be behind the things happening in Thor 2, GoTg, & maybe even Avenger's 2. The brilliance of Marvel's phase 1 is that everything naturally lead to Avengers, but each story was self contained (with the exception of Iron Man 2, which was closer to a prequel to Avengers). After the end of Iron Man 3, it seems natural that Ultron (perhaps created by SHIELD -using Stark tech. - but perverted by Thanos) will be created to fill the void left behind after Stark "gave up" the suits.

After the main plot of Thor 2 (which, again, may have something to do with Thanos) wraps, I'm fairly confident Thanos is gonna be paying Loki a visit. He all but said he would in Avengers.
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#46 Oct 11 2013 at 6:44 AM Rating: Good
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Unless he catches up to him in Alfheim, I can't imagine Thanos barging into Asgard right now.

If he was going to do that, he'd probably have just as easy a time making a grab at the Tesseract or the Infinity Gauntlet (which you can see in the treasure room in Thor).

And I doubt Tony will be out of commission long enough for his absence to be felt by SHIELD. I mean, right now, he's not a reliable asset for them to begin with. And I doubt he's not going to get to work on a new suit right after that cure (or whatever) for Extremis is done.

Now, it's possible that SHIELD wants an Iron Man suit, in general. But I just don't see Fury taking the risk of creating an AI-controlled suit. Creating a suit? Sure. But not giving an AI power over it. He'd reserve that solely for his most-trusted agents.
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#47 Oct 11 2013 at 3:03 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
But I just don't see Fury taking the risk of creating an AI-controlled suit.
I don't know. The guy has an LMD of an LMD of an LMD of himself. Of course, that's Big Boss Solid Nick Fury and not ************* Nick Fury. And to note, LMDs are known to gain sentience. All. The. Time.
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#48 Oct 13 2013 at 8:14 AM Rating: Good
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So finally watched this week's episode. The series is starting to grow on me.

Also, re: Coulson's survival, the theory at the top of my list is that he's a clone with some kind of brain mapping.

It was the whole "this should be muscle memory" thing with the gun. That says to me that his current body isn't his original. But it also makes me think he's not an android, because they would have programmed those behaviors in (or you'd think they would).

So I'm thinking they copied the brain's configuration to the clone, but all the stuff that has to interface heavily with the peripheral nervous system isn't managing, because the routes in the clone body aren't identical to the originally forged ones. Which is ******** pseudo-science that's acceptable enough for a general populace. Smiley: lol

Of course, it makes the Vision route fully possible as well.
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#49 Oct 15 2013 at 6:56 PM Rating: Good
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That was a lot of disbelief in the possibility of psychic powers from people in a universe where the world is held hostage by those very powers on a regular basis. And by SHIELD agents, no less.
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#50 Oct 15 2013 at 9:42 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
That was a lot of disbelief in the possibility of psychic powers from people in a universe where the world is held hostage by those very powers on a regular basis. And by SHIELD agents, no less.


Isn't everything in the Avengers movie universe so far explained by science though? Mystical powers not really being their thing (which is what the agents basically said).
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#51 Oct 16 2013 at 3:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thor and the other Asgardians have powers that would be rather difficult to explain with science.
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