Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2 3 4
Reply To Thread

The WolverineFollow

#1 Jul 29 2013 at 8:10 PM Rating: Good
Better than Origins, but not by a whole lot.

The Good:

Hugh Jackman as Wolverine
Yukio
The first couple of Phoenix Cameos
the WW II opening
The bear
The train fight
Bone Claws
The Post Credits scene (SQUEEEE!!!)

The Bad:

Viper
Most of the 2nd half of the movie.
Mariko
The twist as to who the Silver Samurai is
Most of the other Phoenix Cameos
Sticking to the fiction: Wolverine doesn't have super strength. In fact, while certainly not weak, with heavy metal bonded to his bones he really shouldn't be able to toss full grown men across rooms with 1 appendage. While weakened & shot, sans healing factor, he's still pretty much ok. WTF?
The Ninja "fight".
Plot holes - how does Wolverine remember **** from WWII? Didn't he lose his memory in the first solo outing of everything before that? I''m fairly certain XO: Wolverine took place in the late 70s at the earliest... Maybe ghost of Jean magicked it, idk.
____________________________
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin


#2 Jul 29 2013 at 8:49 PM Rating: Good
Remember stuff, or flash back dreams? i've yet to see the movie, so I don't know.
____________________________
Sandinmyeye | |Tsukaremashi*a |
#3 Jul 30 2013 at 6:06 AM Rating: Good
******
20,020 posts
Didn't he get a lot of his memories back over the course of the trilogy? I feel like I remember that happening.

Then again, I blocked out a lot of the trilogy. And nearly the entirety of the third movie. So...
____________________________
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#4 Jul 30 2013 at 6:50 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
*****
12,277 posts
Quote:
Sticking to the fiction: Wolverine doesn't have super strength. In fact, while certainly not weak, with heavy metal bonded to his bones he really shouldn't be able to toss full grown men across rooms with 1 appendage.


Since Adamantium is supposed to be indestructible even a paper thin coating on the bones is enough to make them unbreakable. At least that's the amount I believed they used since the material is extremely rare and hard to produce in large quantities, that's why he still has high agility.
____________________________
Shaowstrike (Retired - FFXI)
91PUP/BLM 86SMN/BST 76DRK
Cooking/Fishing 100


"We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
— James D. Nicoll
#5 Jul 30 2013 at 7:59 AM Rating: Good
******
20,020 posts
Adamantium is also an extremely lightweight metal, which is part of its appeal.

And Wolverine may not have super strength akin to someone like Colossus, but he definitely has strength far in excess of a normal human. For one, his healing factor means his muscles build extremely easily (muscle strength and stamina coming from repeated tearing and healing of muscles). His adamantium frame allows him to brace in ways bone couldn't handle. His mutation also has a certain degree of animalistic power to it. Not as much as Sabertooth, but Logan got the stronger healing factor of the two.

A glance at the marvel wiki says he can lift somewhere between 800 pounds and 2 tons.

Does that mean he can throw people across the room? Probably not. But he is still extremely strong relative to a human opponent.

I've been reading Ultimate X-Men. In that version, he mostly just uses his claws, his speed, and his healing factor. There are definitely instances of his strength, but they're secondary so far. I'm only 1/10 through the series though.
____________________________
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#6 Jul 30 2013 at 8:05 AM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
*****
12,277 posts
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
A glance at the marvel wiki says he can lift somewhere between 800 pounds and 2 tons.

Does that mean he can throw people across the room? Probably not.


Screenshot
____________________________
Shaowstrike (Retired - FFXI)
91PUP/BLM 86SMN/BST 76DRK
Cooking/Fishing 100


"We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
— James D. Nicoll
#7 Jul 30 2013 at 8:06 AM Rating: Good
******
20,020 posts
STOP JUDGING ME, DOG.
____________________________
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#8 Jul 30 2013 at 8:12 AM Rating: Good
******
49,739 posts
That whole end scene in XO:W really messed up the whole memory issue, that's for certain. It wasn't an issue of having amnesia, but of not knowing which memories were real and which were false. Then again that movie also had Sniktpool, the Merc Without a Mouth so I try to ignore anything it tried to establish as canon. I remember, but can't provide a source because I don't remember where I remember it from, but it was said that the adamantium added something like 100lbs to his overall weight. Which, much like everything else in comics probably changed a dozen times between creation to current. Like currently he can't really swim due to it.

What made the least sense to me is if why are the adamantium claws smooth knives when the bone claws are jagged? If it's just a coating of metal, shouldn't the metal claws also be jagged?
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#9 Jul 30 2013 at 8:18 AM Rating: Good
*****
10,563 posts
Quote:
A glance at the marvel wiki says he can lift somewhere between 800 pounds and 2 tons.

Does that mean he can throw people across the room? Probably not. But he is still extremely strong relative to a human opponent.


I'd say it probably does mean he can throw people across the room.
____________________________
◕ ‿‿ ◕
#10 Jul 30 2013 at 8:28 AM Rating: Good
******
20,020 posts
lolgaxe wrote:
That whole end scene in XO:W really messed up the whole memory issue, that's for certain. It wasn't an issue of having amnesia, but of not knowing which memories were real and which were false. Then again that movie also had Sniktpool, the Merc Without a Mouth so I try to ignore anything it tried to establish as canon. I remember, but can't provide a source because I don't remember where I remember it from, but it was said that the adamantium added something like 100lbs to his overall weight. Which, much like everything else in comics probably changed a dozen times between creation to current. Like currently he can't really swim due to it.

What made the least sense to me is if why are the adamantium claws smooth knives when the bone claws are jagged? If it's just a coating of metal, shouldn't the metal claws also be jagged?


I've always figured that they removed the bones and replaced them with adamantium before the body could heal.

What confuses me is the notion that beheading Logan would kill him. Why? The brain doesn't manage the healing of wounds. Sure, it'll react to pain and release adrenaline and other hormones that will dull pain and help speed healing, but it wouldn't make sense for his healing factor to be linked to that. That would mean he could only heal wounds that caused pain. Things like adamantium poisoning wouldn't be covered.

Then again, his healing factor makes no sense in the first place, so meh.
____________________________
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#11 Jul 30 2013 at 8:45 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
*****
12,277 posts
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
What confuses me is the notion that beheading Logan would kill him. Why?


Because the brain regulates the organs of the body, without it his whole system shuts down. It's not like he can regenerate a whole new head within a couple of minutes (yet).
____________________________
Shaowstrike (Retired - FFXI)
91PUP/BLM 86SMN/BST 76DRK
Cooking/Fishing 100


"We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
— James D. Nicoll
#12 Jul 30 2013 at 8:49 AM Rating: Good
******
49,739 posts
Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
It's not like he can regenerate a whole new head within a couple of minutes (yet).
Screenshot
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#13 Jul 30 2013 at 9:11 AM Rating: Good
******
20,020 posts
Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
What confuses me is the notion that beheading Logan would kill him. Why?


Because the brain regulates the organs of the body, without it his whole system shuts down. It's not like he can regenerate a whole new head within a couple of minutes (yet).


The brain regulates, but the majority of our vital organs actually manage their own functions. Your brain isn't actively telling your liver to continue filtering blood, your liver is filtering blood as long as blood is flowing (and it is otherwise undamaged from injury or disease).

Realistically, the brain doesn't have much to do with the operation of the bodily organs. It makes sure they're working in tandem, but it doesn't make them work. It does directly control your heartbeat and your breathing, and circulating blood/oxygen is necessary for all bodily functions, but otherwise everything else is functioning because its natural state is to function (assuming blood flow).

And healing doesn't really depend on many body organs to function. The scope of what natural healing can do in a body is limited, of course, and a lot of the healing process in humans has more to do with keeping the rest of their body from breaking down while healing occurs. If you can keep blood pressure up, and you have nonstop transfusions, you can recover from any major wound that's causing blood loss (and nothing else). But if you can't keep blood pressure up, your organs will fail long before your body can close that wound.

So, realistically, all that should be required to kill Logan is to stop his circulation. Any severe enough injury to his heart or a major artery (or maybe multiple arteries) should be more than sufficient to cause his blood pressure to crash and cripple his healing capabilities. Thus, the only possible explanation for his healing factor is that his normal cells are equipped to regenerate in ways normal human cells don't at all (obvious, since he can heal without scars).

I guess the best way to think of it is that every one of his cells is a stem cell and somehow intrinsically tuned into his genetic map so as to know the location and type of cell it should become.

Also of note, the presence of adamantium shouldn't make beheading that much more difficult. The spine isn't a single bone, it's many bones linked by cartilage. Swipe a blade through that cartilage and poof, beheaded wolverine. They can't be connected, because he wouldn't be able to move if they were.

Anyone able to tell how bored I am?
____________________________
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#14 Jul 30 2013 at 9:26 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
*****
12,277 posts
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Also of note, the presence of adamantium shouldn't make beheading that much more difficult. The spine isn't a single bone, it's many bones linked by cartilage. Swipe a blade through that cartilage and poof, beheaded wolverine. They can't be connected, because he wouldn't be able to move if they were.

Anyone able to tell how bored I am?



Adamantium chain-mail cage under the skin, around the neck. Smiley: tongue
____________________________
Shaowstrike (Retired - FFXI)
91PUP/BLM 86SMN/BST 76DRK
Cooking/Fishing 100


"We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
— James D. Nicoll
#15 Jul 30 2013 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
******
49,739 posts
Ultimate Hulk tore Ultimate Wolverine in half and threw his legs over a mountain. Also notable, in Punisher vs the Marvel Universe he bit Wolverine's hand off and used it as a necklace. Deadpool has been decapitated at least twice, and both required his head being placed back on his neck to fully come back. Once backwards, so I guess three times technically. To note though, Wade was cursed to live by Thanos so that might be an issue. As far as killing, Daken (aka Wolverine Jr) was drowned to death, and the recent self titled Wolverine book had James Logan basically ******* himself near any puddle of aqua. He also has his healing factor turned off currently, so he's basically ******* himself from fear at everything from cars to shaving. Sabretooth, who was decapitated with a sword made out of the hate in Wolverine's blood, which turns off all of their healing factors, is running around running his own school.

And now you're caught up.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#16 Jul 30 2013 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
******
20,020 posts
So there's a civil war-esque conflict in the ultimate universe? Is that what Ultimatum is?

I just started that universe. Read 1-12 (and 1/2) of Ultimate X-Men. Trying to figure out what I want to read, and what order.

Which largely boils down to whether or not I want to read Ultimate Fantastic Four. I know Johnny Storm is a main character in Ultimate Comics X-Men, so I sort of want to. I also don't like Reed Richards, so I sort of don't. But if his teenage re-imagining is better, I could deal.

I'm liking the series so far, though. I still dislike Cyclops but c'mon, that was always going to happen. And I love Storm and Marvel Girl's characterization in this one.
____________________________
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#17 Jul 30 2013 at 2:04 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
*****
12,277 posts
lolgaxe wrote:
Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
It's not like he can regenerate a whole new head within a couple of minutes (yet).
Screenshot


Just saw this post, did they just hit him with a ******* nuke?
____________________________
Shaowstrike (Retired - FFXI)
91PUP/BLM 86SMN/BST 76DRK
Cooking/Fishing 100


"We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
— James D. Nicoll
#18 Jul 30 2013 at 3:27 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
34,925 posts
I saw it this weekend. It was good, but not fantastic. It is a *very* loose interpretation of the Frank Miller Graphic Novel. There are some "odd" changes that were made, some of which honestly made the plot far more complicated than the original. Several characters were basically split into two different characters, with different aspects of the story presented. Some characters were just changed entirely. And some were just added in.

Without giving anything away, it did make for a bit of a confusing story, since you weren't sure who was on who's side (which I suppose was the point). That would be fine, but there were a couple of choices made along the way that made sense from a story writing point of view (conceal who's doing what), but no sense from the characters point of view. I got the sense that a couple of key scenes were either deleted or shortened in the theatrical release because there was one glaring character choice that made no sense at all (but could have with like 10 seconds of additional film time). I say shortened because there's a particular scene that seems to cut away suddenly and you get the distinct impression there was supposed to be more of a reveal there (to the character involved) but that they didn't want the audience to see it, so they left it out. Had that scene continued, it could easily have explained a couple of other things which happen later that instead you were like "why did that person do that?"

They did somewhat turn the theme of the original graphic novel on its head though. Well, sorta. The big theme in the original was man versus animal, with Logan succeeding when he chooses to be the man. This is somewhat played out in the film, but then they kinda lose it halfway (guess they just can't entirely get away from "berserker guy waving his claws around" from a sales point of view). So we're left with him embracing the Wolverine, which is good for character continuation (and series continuation), but not really like the original theme.


This story absolutely takes place after the events in Xmen3, and leads into the next Xmen film directly (stay for the scene at the end btw). I was surprised they were that direct with the lead in, honestly. But cool as ****.

I'd recommend it. It's worth watching. Good action sequences, and it advances the story of the character in a reasonable way. You wont get the same deep character development that the graphic novel had, but this is the movies afterall.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#19 Jul 30 2013 at 8:41 PM Rating: Good
The Wolverine: Spoiler FAQ
____________________________
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin


#20 Jul 31 2013 at 4:55 AM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
***
1,148 posts
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
What confuses me is the notion that beheading Logan would kill him. Why?


Obviously he is a zombie.
____________________________
Osseric
#21 Jul 31 2013 at 8:17 AM Rating: Excellent
******
49,739 posts
Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
did they just hit him with a @#%^ing nuke?
Technically yes. He was hunting down Nitro.
gbaji wrote:
I got the sense that a couple of key scenes were either deleted or shortened in the theatrical
That seems to be an issue with Fox movies in general. What could have been one of the best lines in a movie turned into the weirdest and confusing in X-Men 1 because of it. When Storm says that infamous line it makes absolutely no sense, but what was cut out was all of Toad's lines where he would recite Wikipedia-esque factoids about frogs and toads while kicking everyone's asses. So at the end, when Storm says her line about toads and lightning, it was supposed to be this big ********** You" for all the lines he was forcing down their throats, and would have been pretty awesome. What we're left with is just Storm suddenly developing down syndrome.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#22 Jul 31 2013 at 8:29 AM Rating: Good
******
20,020 posts
After reading that spoiler FAQ, I think I'm going to go ahead and not see this. I'm too disappointed in the series overall for it to matter. As much as I love Hugh Jackman as Wolverine, this just sounds painful. Much as the first one was.
____________________________
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#23 Jul 31 2013 at 12:02 PM Rating: Good
Encyclopedia
******
34,925 posts
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
After reading that spoiler FAQ, I think I'm going to go ahead and not see this. I'm too disappointed in the series overall for it to matter. As much as I love Hugh Jackman as Wolverine, this just sounds painful. Much as the first one was.


Honestly though, most of the "WTF?" issues brought up in the FAQ looked like they were explained, but were left on the cutting room floor. For example:

Yashida has to fake his death in order to pass the reigns over to Mariko, so he can conceal his new immortality while still running his empire. There's a scene where it looks like this is about to be explained (she's asked to consider whether he chose to hand it all to her in his will because she was strong, or because she was weak), but it cuts away abruptly, presumably because it would have revealed that Yashida is alive and in the Silver Samurai suit, and they wanted that reveal to occur later.

Shingen wanted to inherit instead of his daughter, so when he discovers that she's going to inherit everything, he has his Minister of Justice toady arrange for his Yakuza buddies to kill her. Yashida did figure this might happen, which is why he sent his top ninja (Harada) to protect her. He probably just underestimated the amount of force they'd send.

Why did the Yakuza attempt to capture instead of kill Mariko? Um.... Because the Minister of Justice, the guy who actually has the Yakuza contacts is also Mariko's fiance. It's an arranged marriage, and is his payoff for doing things for Shingen. What possible reason would he have for killing her, given that she's going to inherit the entire family business if she lives long enough to marry him? He was clearly attempting to double cross Shingen, so he could control everything. Then he wouldn't need Shingen at all. Duh.

Why does Harada, who's in on the whole plot from the beginning, suddenly and inexplicably switch sides? Because he's secretly in love with Mariko. His duty is to protect the family, so he's honor bound to carry out the commands of it's head (Yashida). But at some point near the end of the film he realizes that Yashida has "lost his way". I suspect that the same reveal to Mariko about her true purpose in the plan (which was presumably cut because it would reveal who was in the suit too early), also included him overhearing this. That triggered his decision. He realized that his loyalty is to the family, not to just one member of it, and what Yashida was doing would destroy the house he served. That and he probably didn't like that Mariko would be treated as a puppet for her entire life, with the only purpose to produce "heirs" who would themselves just be puppets for Yashida to use.


A lot of this stuff you can figure out by reading between the lines, but is not overtly spelled out. It's why in my initial review I said that it looked like there was supposed to be a lot more explanatory scenes, but they were left out due to time, or pacing, or whatever. The absence of those scenes, however, makes the actions and choices of several characters confusing. You have to actually figure out why people did what the did, rather than have it spelled out for you. Which is not always a great approach for an action film.


I honestly think they just made too complicated a plot. They were trying to do too much, and ended out with a bit of a muddled story. They probably could have cut out half the characters and subplots and it would have worked better. But I suppose I have to give them credit for at least trying to write a complex and detailed plot, with lots of different players and motivations all working at odds with each other. They just didn't pull it off well.

Edited, Jul 31st 2013 11:04am by gbaji
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#24 Jul 31 2013 at 5:04 PM Rating: Good
******
20,020 posts
Yeah, but if all the important information is left on the cutting room floor, that doesn't stop it from being a shi**y movie.
____________________________
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#25 Jul 31 2013 at 5:28 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
34,925 posts
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Yeah, but if all the important information is left on the cutting room floor, that doesn't stop it from being a shi**y movie.


/shrug. There's enough information for you to noodle out what's going on. They just don't come right out and tell you everything. The only thing that's actually outright missing is Harada switching sides. There's one very brief bit when he first shows up where he says something that indicates that his desire to protect Mariko goes beyond just his duty to the family. Plus some information that the two of them more or less grew up together and were close. From that you can extrapolate that something must have happened which made him choose her side against her grandfather, but they didn't show it directly. Just in the middle of the fight, he shows up and starts helping Logan fight the Silver Samurai.. Everything else, there is enough information in the film to figure out, but you have to actually think about it. It's not handed to you in direct dialog. If it weren't for the fact that this is more or less a straight action film, I wouldn't even say that this was a problem at all (I like films where you aren't hit over the head with stuff). But most of the audience isn't going to want to have to do this. They're going to want to be told exactly what's happening, who's doing it, and why. Preferably multiple times with extra recaps in case they forgot since the last time. Cause... Action film.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#26 Jul 31 2013 at 6:02 PM Rating: Good
******
20,020 posts
In a normal film, all that time being devoted to action sequences is going to be spent establishing characterization and backstories that allows something like that to happen organically.

There's a difference between being bluntly told something and having it pan out over time.

If all the major plot elements to explain the events we see are happening off screen, it's not a cohesive film. I'm not interested in seeing irrelevant parts of a story and having to guess at what the real juicy content is. I want the freaking content.

That doesn't mean it needs to be narrated to me. But if you don't put it in, it's like having The Sixth Sense and cutting out the scenes in Willis' character's home. You just get told the truth at the end, it makes no sense, and you're just told you need to accept it. And that's ********* It's lazy film making. The details don't need to be obvious, but the important supplemental details still need to be IN the movie. And for an action film, the basic plot structure needs to be understandable by a casual watcher.

Basic plot structures can go deep, though. Avengers managed to have many, many levels of subtext and parallels providing food for thought. The exact reasons they were working together were never bluntly explained. Those you needed to figure out, you needed to think about how their different characters would interact. But the basic plot threshold was sufficient to tie them together so you could accept it was happening, even if you didn't want to dig into it and didn't fully understand it.
____________________________
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
« Previous 1 2 3 4
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 29 All times are in CDT
Anonymous Guests (29)