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#102 May 02 2013 at 9:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Loner outsider with no real friends: Check <- Not true. He had Robb and to a lesser degree because of the age difference Bran. In the Nightwatch he has plenty of friends. Grenn, Pyp, the fat one.

His brothers like him because he has such a sparkling personality. In fact, every even vaguely sympathetic character likes him. How could they not? People who don't like Jon may as well be twirling mustachios. Lord Mormont likes him, immediately, decides to groom his as his successor after about an hour. Mance likes him, immediately, to the point of accepting the idiotic conceit that he's abandoned the NW. Aemon Targarryian like him. These aren't "real friends" however. These are people for Jon to rescue. Halfhand likes him so much he wants him to kill him. He's clearly a likable guy. Unless you're evil, of course, then you instantly hate him. This is how we can tell that Mel isn't necessarily evil, she doesn't hate Jon instantly.


Great warrior: Check <- Because he received intensive training his whole life by Ned Stark and the white bearded fellow. I don't think he's superior to Robb in that respect. And he would not stand a chance against Jaime (with both hands), the Red Viper, one of the Cleganes or someone other in their league.

No, his albino wolf would kill them at the last minute after Jon tried really hard. Starting to see the problem? Also you left out Barristan, who if you read carefully, is probably the most dangerous one on one combatant alive, even at 60+


Borderline manga style super pet: Albino dire-wolf? Really, George?: Check <- A trait he shares with all his 'siblings'. The albino part is a bit over the top but at least it makes sense stoywise.


Really? It "makes sense" story-wise? The whole dire-wolf thing makes no sense. It's an early hook to demonstrate that magic is coming back into the world. It may as well be fan fiction. It makes as much sense as the giant lions the Lannisters have, except for Tyrrion who found a dwarf one, and the 30 foot Stag that Stannis rides into battle.

Magical powers?: Check <- Shared with his siblings again. And he's not even close to Bran.

I'm not sure how "shared with his siblings" justifies stupidness. Bran's character is as comical, just incredibly boring to read. "Bran rode on Hodor's back....<20 pages of handwaive vague mythology>" Bran's story arc is clearly cribbed from one of the early drafts of "The Golden Child". Bloodraven is interesting and a deeper mythic archetype. Having to have Bran be supermagicbaby to get exposition on the BR stuff is lazy and tiring to read.

Daddy issues: Check <- Comes with being a *******/adopted.

Yeah, not ****. Daddy issues come with daddy issues? Who knew? There's no reason to have Jon be a *******, though. I mean aside from the big "reveal" that he's Reagar's kid. That's the daddy I'm talking about.

Born leader: Check<- Again that is due to his uprising. He is not a better leader than Robb.

I assume you mean upbringing. He's clearly a better leader than Robb. Did you mean not a better general? I'm sure he'll be revealed to be. We really haven't had the opportunity to find out yet. As to the "upbringing" handwaive, Samwell, Jonas Slynt, etc have simmilar upbringings without magically being born leaders. Am I to believe that the Stark blood just magiks that up in the boys?

Wins over savages to the white man's grace by "understanding" their customs and beliefs almost instantly: Check <- Most of them don't really like him. Only the ones that know him from the time he spent with them.

Right. Of course, once they get to know they'll love him immediately. I mean, unless they're eeeevil.

Slays undead: Check <- He's not the only one. Even the fat one kills one of the Others und thus earnes his title Slayer.

You mean Sam, who kills one with the dragonglass that Jon finds and tells him to keep after Sam dismisses it as unimportant? Is that what you meant? When Jon basically saves Sams life in loco parentis with his sage advice?

He pretty much did what anyone in this position would have done. And it was enough to hold the enemy at bay long enough. Don't see a problem here.

You don't see a "problem" with Mance hanging around and being rebuffed for days as he sens small groups of forces at the wall like a Bruce Lee villain with 20 henchmen?
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#103 May 02 2013 at 9:57 AM Rating: Decent
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What characters do you like, Smash?


The ones written for me, basically. Tyrrian, Arrya, Sandor, Post handchop Jaimie, ok, probably pre Handchop Jaimie too. Littlefinger, obviously, I mean he's the hero, right?
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#104 May 02 2013 at 10:05 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:


What characters do you like, Smash?


The ones written for me, basically. Tyrrian, Arrya, Sandor, Post handchop Jaimie, ok, probably pre Handchop Jaimie too. Littlefinger, obviously, I mean he's the hero, right?


Hah, I thought I was the only one who really liked Littlefinger. The wife thinks I'm off my rocker.

On an unrelated note, I have no idea who you're responding to in the above post - I can't find the original anywhere. It's like I'm missing a whole string of someone's posts in this thread...

nm just noticed that it's from someone's post that they edited after the fact.

Edited, May 2nd 2013 12:06pm by Eske
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#105 May 02 2013 at 10:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
the Hound

Nope Smiley: tongue

Edited, May 2nd 2013 12:16pm by Nilatai
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#106 May 02 2013 at 10:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Hah, I thought I was the only one who really liked Littlefinger. The wife thinks I'm off my rocker.

Everyone should love Littlefinger. He's deflowered so many Tully women he should change his coat of arms from a mockingbird to a trout being fileted. He's also clearly Loki in the Ragnarok that's about to unfold. He doesn't kill people he dislikes, I mean he does, but he also kills people just to confuse things. Loses a "duel" with Brandon Stark and says "hey I'm never going to win a sword-fight with this guy, maybe instead, I'll just destroy his entire family and take the remnants of his house for my own. Or as Littlefinger calls that sort of planning session "Tuesday".




Edited, May 2nd 2013 12:44pm by Smasharoo
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#107 May 02 2013 at 11:09 AM Rating: Good
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Nilatai wrote:
Elinda wrote:
the Hound

Nope Smiley: tongue

Edited, May 2nd 2013 12:16pm by Nilatai

Hmm, perhaps I should have used Sandor as "The Hound is dead"
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#108 May 02 2013 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Elinda wrote:
the Hound

Nope Smiley: tongue

Edited, May 2nd 2013 12:16pm by Nilatai

Hmm, perhaps I should have used Sandor as "The Hound is dead"

Now you're gettin' it Smiley: wink
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#109 May 02 2013 at 11:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:
Much rambling.


You have every right to your opinion but when I suggested that some of your 'tropes' for Jon are factually wrong or not even remotely limited to this one character you come back with sarcasm and anger. It may have escaped you in your frenzy but I actually agreed with you on some points. On others I disagreed but that's obviously more than you could stomach. Which renders this discussion rather fruitless. I wish you a happy life.
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#110 May 02 2013 at 12:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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You must be new here, that's how Smash talks to everyone.
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#111 May 02 2013 at 12:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Nilatai wrote:
You must be new here, that's how Smash talks to everyone.


Aye, I dare say he's sustained by embittered, sarcastic well-wishes.
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#112 May 02 2013 at 12:18 PM Rating: Decent
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You have every right to your opinion but when I suggested that some of your 'tropes' for Jon are factually wrong or not even remotely limited to this one character you come back with sarcasm and anger. It may have escaped you in your frenzy but I actually agreed with you on some points. On others I disagreed but that's obviously more than you could stomach. Which renders this discussion rather fruitless. I wish you a happy life.

I wish you one, too, with high hopes that your tissue paper thin psyche can withstand the slings and arrows life my hurl at it. I will pray, nightly, that someone doesn't neglect to say "thank you" at a Burger King drive through window or that you suffer some similar indignity causing your inevitable death at your own hands in a fit of despair and hopelessness. You have no inkling how kind I've been to you or the restraint I've shown, but have no fear, you slighting me in this way is something I've grown able to withstand with good grace.

I lie. Yes, I lie. I will lay awake this night and all others, sleepless staring at the ceiling of my bedroom silently asking myself: "Why? Why didn't that random person seemingly named after the Spanish word for "Achievements" LIKE me?" Then I'll realize it's the lack of the albino wolf and sleep like a baby.
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#113 May 02 2013 at 12:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not sure why I check this thread anymore. It's nothing but spoilers, that I don't click on, since I'm the last person in the world that's not read the books (and I have no plans to).

Remember when this was about the show on HBO? Good times...
#114 May 02 2013 at 12:29 PM Rating: Good
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Someone didn't read the disclaimer.......
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#115 May 02 2013 at 12:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't read. I only watch TV. HBO, specifically.
#116 May 02 2013 at 12:33 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't read. I only watch TV. HBO, specifically.

You've got a new favorite show?
You've been watching HBO?

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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#117 May 02 2013 at 12:35 PM Rating: Good
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Nadenu wrote:
I don't read. I only watch TV. HBO, specifically.

Eep, I was referring to the Thereallogros who was complaining that Smash was being mean. You snuck a post in between.



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#118 May 02 2013 at 3:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:
I don't read. I only watch TV. HBO, specifically.

You've got a new favorite show?
You've been watching HBO?


I'll be able to say that (sort of) when they finally make Hickman and Weiss' books into something good. I'd like to see The Death Gate Cycle, but it'll never happen.
#119 May 02 2013 at 4:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:
I don't read. I only watch TV. HBO, specifically.

You've got a new favorite show?
You've been watching HBO?


I... am actually really disappointed. While I agree with the sentiment to an extent and loved the costumes (and the GoT entry electric guitar riff), this is probably the worst AoA song I've ever heard.
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#120 May 02 2013 at 4:41 PM Rating: Good
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LockeColeMA wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:
I don't read. I only watch TV. HBO, specifically.

You've got a new favorite show?
You've been watching HBO?


I... am actually really disappointed. While I agree with the sentiment to an extent and loved the costumes (and the GoT entry electric guitar riff), this is probably the worst AoA song I've ever heard.

That's because they peaked with 4 chords. Smiley: tongue
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#121 May 03 2013 at 4:22 AM Rating: Excellent
A Game of Tropes

Starring:

Smasharoo as 'Tyrion'
TheRealLogros as 'Sam'
Nitalai as 'Jon'
LockeColeMA as 'Cersei'
Elinda as 'Grand Maester Pycelle'
Eske as 'That guy who plays Kev in Hollyoaks'
TirithRR as 'a lampshade'
Kavekk as 'Jaime's severed right hand'

Night gathers and now their watch begins. Tyrion, Sam and Jon are the Wall. It's cold. Super cold. Remember that time when you were really cold? Yeah, it's colder than that. Wind, snow, ice, freezer, Aberdeen, that guy from Mortal Combat named Sub-Zero, think of something really cold and it's even colder than that. But dragons are hot. Remember that. Dragons hot, the North cold.

Sam: The Wall has stood for thousands of years! It can never be taken. Not from the North, at least. It's just far too big. Too tall! Too icey. No one will ever take it from the North, never, ever, never.
Tyrion: They could just build a ladder.
Sam: You don't understand! Think of something big. Got it? Well the Wall is bigger than that. Even something really really big, like an elephant.
Tyrion: Or dig a f*cking tunnel.
Sam: The Wall has spells! Magic spells, that were cast by an ancient Lord who was also a prostitute but also a ******* and had a magic sword that could destroy the Wall, but he lost it when he went north of the Wall and no one really knows what happened to it. I read it in a Book called 'Magical Stuff That's Probably Extremely Relevant Eventhough It Sounds Boring'. The sword was called The Wall Tearer, but no one really knows why.
Jon: Enough chit chat, boys. Go practice in the yard with wooden swords, you'll need it when we face those undead creatures that can only be killed with fire.

Meanwhile, back in King's Landing, Cersei is in bed, pleasuring herself with Jaime's severed right hand.

Cersei: Oh Jaime, your hand is so hard right now. So... stiff. Do you like how warm it feels down there?
Grand Maester Pycelle: Your Grace, may I be excused now? I have things to attend to, like plots and whatnots.
Cersei: Shut up. I'm not done telling you my evil plans yet.
Grand Maester Pycelle: As you command.
Cersei/LockeColeMA: So stiff, and hard, and yet nimble. Oooooh, Jaime.
That guy who plays Kev in Hollyoaks: Your Grace! You know those untrustworthy Southron traitors you hired to kill the High Septon and then re-arrange the crime scene so that it looks like he died sticking his sceptre up his backside?
Cersei: I did what now?
That guy who plays Kev in Hollyoaks: Well one of them called Andy a ******, so Andy called his elder brother Gavin and now Gavin's all like mental and **** and he's saying he's gonna break his kneecaps with a baseball bat.
Cersei: What?
That guy who plays Kev in Hollyoaks: But Gavin is going out with Tom's sister, Ashmita, and she's got a twin sister who's just got a job as an estate agent on Uxbridge Lane, and Andy's parents are buying a flat from her, so she thinks she might sell them the flat with the broken boiler. Should I call the fire brigade?

Next week: Will the Wildlings finally learn how to build a ladder? Should That guy who plays Kev in Hollyoaks call the fire brigade? Will that new girl who's kept her clothes on for 3 episodes finally get naked? Is TirithRR made of dead jews? All this and more, on Game of Tropes.
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#122 May 03 2013 at 6:09 AM Rating: Good
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RedPhoenixxx wrote:


Next week: Will the Wildlings finally learn how to build a ladder? Should That guy who plays Kev in Hollyoaks call the fire brigade? Will that new girl who's kept her clothes on for 3 episodes finally get naked? Is TirithRR made of dead jews? All this and more, on Game of Tropes.
Smiley: lol

Will we learn next week if Kavekk was wearing a rubber glove?



Edited, May 3rd 2013 2:10pm by Elinda
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#123 May 03 2013 at 6:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'd be more offended at being labeled Cersei if I didn't think I could TOTALLY pull off the innuendo in this dialogue while cross-dressing.

I don't know if it's a good thing that I'm so confident that I could play the role or not...

Quote:
That's because they peaked with 4 chords. Smiley: tongue


Sad, but true Smiley: laugh Though In the Club and This is How You Write a Love Song were pretty funny too!

Edited, May 3rd 2013 9:18am by LockeColeMA
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#124 May 03 2013 at 9:48 PM Rating: Good
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LockeColeMA wrote:
While I agree with the sentiment to an extent and loved the costumes (and the GoT entry electric guitar riff), this is probably the worst AoA song I've ever heard.

Still better than anything on Renegades. Smiley: schooled
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#125 May 04 2013 at 9:55 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Kavekk as 'Jaime's severed right hand'


I always get the bit parts.
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#126 May 04 2013 at 4:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:
Sure you aren't, hon.

You convinced me. Seriously though, if you think there's *anyone* reading this that doesn't immediately click on the "spoiler" tag, you're delusional.


Present.
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#127 May 05 2013 at 6:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kavekk wrote:
Quote:
Kavekk as 'Jaime's severed right hand'


I always get the bit parts.

Shut up, Jaime. I don't pay you for witty banter!
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#128 May 06 2013 at 9:25 AM Rating: Good
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The wall climb was the biggest thrill of the episode. Too much time spent on Cersei's and Tyrions marital woes. I don't know that the squibbling between Osha and Meera is leading to anything or not. If not, it's just plain irritating. The Freys were sufficiently creepy - much how I had imagined them.

Theon's torture is getting hard to watch. I had wondered how graphic things might get.

I liked the little voice-over soliloquy by Littlefinger, but all-in-all probably my least favorite episode of this season so far.
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#129 May 06 2013 at 9:38 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda the Adventurer Enthusiast wrote:
The wall climb was the biggest thrill of the episode. Too much time spent on Cersei's and Tyrions marital woes. I don't know that the squibbling between Osha and Meera is leading to anything or not. If not, it's just plain irritating. The Freys were sufficiently creepy - much how I had imagined them.

Theon's torture is getting hard to watch. I had wondered how graphic things might get.

I liked the little voice-over soliloquy by Littlefinger, but all-in-all probably my least favorite episode of this season so far.


It was real up and down for me. The Osha/Meera scene was dumb, and probably pointless. Theon's stuff needs to start going somewhere to merit all the time they're devoting to it.

But I like Ygritte a lot more in the show than the books, and her speech to Jon Snow was pretty endearing. Tywin/Lady Olenna was good, and the last scene w/ Littlefinger & Varys was stellar.

Also, Thoros of Myr is pretty cool. But I like this development with Gendry not.
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#130 May 06 2013 at 2:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
But I like Ygritte a lot more in the show than the books, and her speech to Jon Snow was pretty endearing.


Hmm had the opposite effect on me. I liked her more as a vicious "we wildlings against the world" savage. But I really dig Tormund Giantsbane.
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#131 May 06 2013 at 3:05 PM Rating: Good
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TherealLogros wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
But I like Ygritte a lot more in the show than the books, and her speech to Jon Snow was pretty endearing.


Hmm had the opposite effect on me. I liked her more as a vicious "we wildlings against the world" savage.


Eh, the wildlings plan doesn't really make sense like that to me. If they've any sort of plan other then "scatter like roaches" after getting past the wall, then they'd be delusional, best as I can tell. Based on everything we've been told about their individualism and tendencies against rule, it makes more sense for Ygritte to mostly just be worried about Ygritte.

TherealLogros wrote:
But I really dig Tormund Giantsbane.


Tormund is indeed awesome. GoT was always in need of a few characters that seemed like crazed berserker vikings.

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#132 May 06 2013 at 5:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Elinda the Adventurer Enthusiast wrote:
The wall climb was the biggest thrill of the episode. Too much time spent on Cersei's and Tyrions marital woes. I don't know that the squibbling between Osha and Meera is leading to anything or not. If not, it's just plain irritating. The Freys were sufficiently creepy - much how I had imagined them.

Theon's torture is getting hard to watch. I had wondered how graphic things might get.

I liked the little voice-over soliloquy by Littlefinger, but all-in-all probably my least favorite episode of this season so far.


It was real up and down for me. The Osha/Meera scene was dumb, and probably pointless. Theon's stuff needs to start going somewhere to merit all the time they're devoting to it.

But I like Ygritte a lot more in the show than the books, and her speech to Jon Snow was pretty endearing. Tywin/Lady Olenna was good, and the last scene w/ Littlefinger & Varys was stellar.

Also, Thoros of Myr is pretty cool. But I like this development with Gendry not.

This pretty much echoes my thoughts. The last two episodes were awesome, but this one was just kinda plodding along. I forget when stuff with Theon moves along - not sure it's in this season. So I hope we've all but seen the last of him for a while (just need to reveal who his torturer is). I'm really curious about the Gendry angle, as that's completely diverting from the books, right? I think they might be squishing his character into the character of playmate of Shireen (Stannis's daughter), Edric Storm, another of Robert's illegitimate kids, who, I seem to recall, gets saved from burning by... Davos and shipped off to the Free Cities. So my guess is that by the end of the season, Gendry will be saved by Davos, thus prompting Stannis to head north.

Seems like a risky move, as conceivably both Gendry and the other could have roles later in the series. Though knowing GRRM, it's more likely that at least one of them will die before the end anyway Smiley: lol
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#133 May 07 2013 at 10:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Theon's stuff needs to start going somewhere to merit all the time they're devoting to it.

Dude. It's like 1000 pages of him being tortured in the books to no useful plot effect. This is MUCH better. Expect to this sort of torture cameo every few weeks for the next few seasons unless they move the resolution of it much earlier in the timeline.
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#134 May 07 2013 at 11:01 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
Theon's stuff needs to start going somewhere to merit all the time they're devoting to it.

Dude. It's like 1000 pages of him being tortured in the books to no useful plot effect. This is MUCH better. Expect to this sort of torture cameo every few weeks for the next few seasons unless they move the resolution of it much earlier in the timeline.


Ehh.......

I haven't read those particular books very recently, but my recollection is that a great deal of Theon's torture occurs between chapters and is left to the reader's imagination - that he just sort of resurfaces.

Either way, I'm with Greenwald on this stuff. If dogged adherence to the books makes for ****** TV, then change it. They've already set the precedent of doing just that.

My thinking is that they'll need to change the payoff from the books a fair bit in order to make this endeavor worthwhile. The end result from the books doesn't really justify them belaboring this part in the show.
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#135 May 07 2013 at 11:03 AM Rating: Decent
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The wall climb was the biggest thrill of the episode. Too much time spent on Cersei's and Tyrions marital woes.

They have to set up her assuming he's the poisoner when Joffrey dies. A little heavy handed, but viewers need reminders and foreshadowing.

I don't know that the squibbling between Osha and Meera is leading to anything or not.

Bran and Rickon are already separated long before this point in the books. I imagine this the set up for that to happen at some point this season with Bran going off with the Reeds and Rickon and Osha going wherever the **** they go.
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#136 May 07 2013 at 11:04 AM Rating: Decent
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I haven't read those particular books very recently, but my recollection is that a great deal of Theon's torture occurs between chapters and is left to the reader's imagination

Your recollection is wrong. Likely, like all sane people, you eventually just started skimming them "ok, he lost a toe, and blew a dog, and nothing else interesting happened, let's see what's going on in Dorne."
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#137 May 07 2013 at 11:23 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
I haven't read those particular books very recently, but my recollection is that a great deal of Theon's torture occurs between chapters and is left to the reader's imagination

Your recollection is wrong. Likely, like all sane people, you eventually just started skimming them "ok, he lost a toe, and blew a dog, and nothing else interesting happened, let's see what's going on in Dorne."


Possible. But now's the point where I fall back to the trenches of my backup point in the above post.
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#138 May 07 2013 at 11:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Possible. But now's the point where I fall back to the trenches of my backup point in the above post.

I agree. I just don't know what you can possibly have him do, he's isolated from the rest of the plot for three books, and you have to have Ramsey be demonstrated to be a big evil guy somehow ALL of the exposition about his comes via Theon's POV.
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#139 May 07 2013 at 11:58 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
Possible. But now's the point where I fall back to the trenches of my backup point in the above post.

I agree. I just don't know what you can possibly have him do, he's isolated from the rest of the plot for three books, and you have to have Ramsey be demonstrated to be a big evil guy somehow ALL of the exposition about his comes via Theon's POV.


At the moment, I'm of the mind that they should have killed Theon when the Iron Islanders betray him and get out of Dodge. Woulda been a tight, poetic character arc. I think I'd be fine with Ramsey getting removed from the story wholesale, just for that. I'm not super interested in Ramsey's role in the books (he feels like a character that only really exists to convey just how sadistic the characters can be, and Qyburn can fill that role just fine on his own).

Of course, that could all be proved moot by the way the books/show choose to go with the characters. We'll see.
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#140 May 07 2013 at 12:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Of course, that could all be proved moot by the way the books/show choose to go with the characters. We'll see.

Theon's going to obviously be redeemed and sit the Seastone Chair at some point in the last two books.
Eliminating that arc means there's no good reason for Stannis to leave the wall and less of a reason for Jon to get stabbed. There'd be a lot of stuff to rework. You could just make Roose BigBadNorth, I guess, but it doesn't seem to hang together well. It's a bad storyline, generally, but there no easy replacements for it.
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#141 May 07 2013 at 3:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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#142 May 07 2013 at 4:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Is it just me, or are Sam's scenes just painful to watch? The guy they have playing him is terrible.

Edited, May 7th 2013 10:28pm by Turin
#143 May 07 2013 at 4:36 PM Rating: Good
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Turin wrote:
Is it just me, or are Sam's seems just painful to watch? The guy they have playing him is terrible.


You just hate fat people.
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#144 May 07 2013 at 7:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sam's seems?
#145 May 07 2013 at 7:24 PM Rating: Good
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Nadenu wrote:
Sam's seems?


Not only did he typo, he tried to spell "scenes" as "seens".
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#146 May 07 2013 at 7:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ah ok. I thought that might be it, but I just wanted to make sure. And make fun of.
#147 May 08 2013 at 6:42 AM Rating: Good
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I'm not thrilled with Sam's role in the TV show either. Not sure what it is, but even TV-Gilian seems to treat him with disdain. Maybe it's that he seems not just cowardly and lacking confidence, but stupid. Sending him off to be a Maester when he seems to have the IQ of a dolt isn't very believable.
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#148 May 08 2013 at 7:04 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
I haven't read those particular books very recently, but my recollection is that a great deal of Theon's torture occurs between chapters and is left to the reader's imagination

Your recollection is wrong. Likely, like all sane people, you eventually just started skimming them "ok, he lost a toe, and blew a dog, and nothing else interesting happened, let's see what's going on in Dorne."
After Bolton took Winterfell we don't hear from anything about Theon again for a whole book (or much of a book??), then he re-emerges as 'Reek'. The torture that supposedly turned him into a different beast altogether is only related to us through Theon's thoughts and dialog - past tense. Sure there is more torture to follow, but the 'transformation' occurs behind the scenes.
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#149 May 08 2013 at 9:37 AM Rating: Good
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I'm not thrilled with Sam's role in the TV show either. Not sure what it is, but even TV-Gilian seems to treat him with disdain. Maybe it's that he seems not just cowardly and lacking confidence, but stupid.

Fairly stupid in the books, as well, just buttressed by "Sam reads a lot and is good with ravens" Sadly, he has stronger plot armor than almost any other character, because there are a quite a few places where his death would have fit in nicely. But, you don't sell a lot of books to fat people who read a lot who think they're smarter than they actually are by killing the character that represents them, I guess.
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#150 May 08 2013 at 10:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:

Fairly stupid in the books, as well, just buttressed by "Sam reads a lot and is good with ravens"

I think that Sam in the show is pretty close to how Sam in the books acts. The thing is, we get more insight into his mind in the story, so he's a less detestable character. But his actions are the same in both: he's a coward who stutters and fails at even the most basic of tasks.
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#151 May 08 2013 at 11:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:
I'm not thrilled with Sam's role in the TV show either. Not sure what it is, but even TV-Gilian seems to treat him with disdain. Maybe it's that he seems not just cowardly and lacking confidence, but stupid.

Fairly stupid in the books, as well, just buttressed by "Sam reads a lot and is good with ravens" Sadly, he has stronger plot armor than almost any other character, because there are a quite a few places where his death would have fit in nicely. But, you don't sell a lot of books to fat people who read a lot who think they're smarter than they actually are by killing the character that represents them, I guess.


I'm fat and I would pay Martin good money to have him kill off Sam in the most horrible way any character has died in the books so far. Seriously, he's the Jar Jar Binks of the series, in the book and on the television.

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