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#27 Apr 16 2011 at 9:03 AM Rating: Good
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Daimakaicho, Eater of Souls wrote:
Aripyanfar wrote:
Erm. Didn't Ned Stark die fairly shortly into the first book? Or at least, he was the FIRST of the main characters to die. Wouldn't they have to do a fairly major rewrite to keep Ned in the storyline? True Blood the TV series was written more and more away from the books' scripts, in a very successful way. But... keeping Ned alive through GOT? In the documentary they were sprinkling Ned scenes along with Daenerys scenes where she already is in the grasslands, and has the dragon eggs.
You're just remembering incorrectly (not that I can blame you if it's been a while since you read the book; I read it only a few months ago, so it's more fresh in my mind). Ned doesn't die until near the end of the first book (it's not the very end, but probably 4-5 chapters away from it), and Dany gets her dragon eggs probably 2/3 of the way through that book too. The dragons hatching is the very last thing that happens in the first book.

Ok, guess it's been too long since I read them to remember the plot order correctly. I think I saw a new book in the series on the New Releases shelves of my SF speciality store, but it's been so long since I read the first four that I wasn't moved to pounce on it and check that it was actually the fifth book in the series out at last.

Tyrion is my favourite character too, along with a couple of the Stark/Snow children. I like intellectuals. I hope that the shallow Stark girl grows up and realises that Tyrion is worthy of love. Also, this is my take on where the books series should go: The blacksmith ******* boy and Daenerys both have different but equal claims to the throne. At least the two of them have more direct claim to the throne than anyone else in a hereditary monarchy. The most equitable thing to do (in a feudal system) would have the two make a political marriage and be coequal-rulers.

Edited, Apr 16th 2011 11:06am by Aripyanfar
#28 Apr 16 2011 at 9:18 AM Rating: Good
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I swear if GRRM kills Jon Snow, Arya, or Tyrion, I quit the series. Also, I'd like to see Nymeria return. Also, also I hope he doesn't kill Ghost.
#29 Apr 16 2011 at 5:23 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm getting one of those free preview weekends of HBO right now, so I won't have to download the first episode at least. 8:45 PM tomorrow.
#30 Apr 16 2011 at 7:36 PM Rating: Good
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OMG, the TV series is starting in the US really soon? How soon?

Is Arya the brave little Stark girl who learned to fight? I like that one a lot too. Yeah, he hasn't got too many "good" characters to kill off any more.

I actually LIKE that he has been brave enough as a writer to kill main characters. Most writers cocoon readers in a dream world that doesn't really acknowledge how dangerous their imagined worlds would be to live in. Power struggles, crime, diseases, in worlds without constitutions, police forces, good communications or medical science. Novels are chock full of The Lucky.

Fine Literature, that examines what it is to be human, is more brave and cruel to its characters. But I wouldn't call ASOIAF fine Literature. It's really good SF, but it's not literature. There's some good SF out there that has unhappy or downer endings, but they are in the decided minority. There might be people who like those books, who can cope with that severe tug on their heartstrings in their recreational reading. But after all the death and bloodshed, I personally hope that Martin rescues some of the good out of the ashes. I'm still hoping for a happy ending and a rescued world.
#31 Apr 16 2011 at 7:46 PM Rating: Good
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Aripyanfar wrote:
OMG, the TV series is starting in the US really soon? How soon?


sunday(tomorrow) 9pm eastern, so just over 23 hours from now soon
#32 Apr 17 2011 at 1:10 AM Rating: Good
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sscearcev wrote:
Aripyanfar wrote:
OMG, the TV series is starting in the US really soon? How soon?


sunday(tomorrow) 9pm eastern, so just over 23 hours from now soon

AIIEEE!
#33 Apr 17 2011 at 11:11 AM Rating: Good
8 HOURS AND COUNTING.
#34 Apr 17 2011 at 11:45 AM Rating: Good
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Ugh, I have work scheduled for when it starts.

Thank God for DVRs.
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#35 Apr 17 2011 at 8:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Hmm, so far it has potential. It did feel rushed though. I think a two hour premier would have been better. It felt like they were in too big of a hurry to introduce all of the main characters. They could have easily left out the bits with Dany and had her in the next episode. I have a feeling that they really wanted to end the episode with Bran's fall, so they had to pump a lot of content into the first episode. Still, they certainly did a good job creating the world, they just need work on pacing. By the way, did anyone else spot GRRM in the wedding scene?
#36 Apr 18 2011 at 12:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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I must say, there were probably more boobies in this version than I pictured when I was reading the books.
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#37 Apr 18 2011 at 12:16 AM Rating: Good
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
I must say, there were probably more boobies in this version than I pictured when I was reading the books.
It seemed about the same to me, but it gets more prevalent later on in the book, so perhaps it was a bit much for the first episode. I must say though, Viserys was nailed down perfectly. It's exactly how I imagined him. The Stark children are all a bit different and/or older than I would like, but it's not bad. I did notice that they didn't even mention names for the direwolves; does that come later in the book than I thought it did?
#38 Apr 18 2011 at 5:33 AM Rating: Good
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
I must say, there were probably more boobies in this version than I pictured when I was reading the books.


It's a series on HBO. There has to be lots of boobs and sex where the people apparently have genitalia on their stomachs.
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#39 Apr 18 2011 at 5:56 AM Rating: Good
Daimakaicho, Eater of Souls wrote:
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
I must say, there were probably more boobies in this version than I pictured when I was reading the books.
It seemed about the same to me, but it gets more prevalent later on in the book, so perhaps it was a bit much for the first episode. I must say though, Viserys was nailed down perfectly. It's exactly how I imagined him. The Stark children are all a bit different and/or older than I would like, but it's not bad. I did notice that they didn't even mention names for the direwolves; does that come later in the book than I thought it did?


I've yet to see the show, so I don't know how far into the book it covers. But I remember the names of the dogs being told really in. At least by the time the King visits the Starks.
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#40 Apr 18 2011 at 7:00 AM Rating: Good
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Based on the previews that I've seen, the wolves should have enough of a role in the show that they'll include their names soon enough. Cute pups!

I enjoyed it well enough. Sure did move fast, though I think I understand why. Seemed like the writers were quite concerned with hooking the non-reader audience. They wanted to get done with almost all of the character introductions and early characterizations, while still having a few major events (the wedding, Bran's fall) to generate interest. The deviations from the novel all made sense, and seemed mostly related to pacing.

Speaking of that wedding, the honeymoon was a fair bit harsher than I recall from the books. Yeesh. Smiley: frown


I still love all the casting choices, perhaps even more so. Peter Dinklage looks to be awesome, and the guy playing Jon Snow seems like he'll make the character more interesting to me than he was in the books. Cersei will be great.

The scenery was a bit hit-or-miss to me. The scene with Ned and Catelyn in the godswood looked fit to be framed, and the scenes of the Wall and beyond were pretty suitable. But Winterfell came off as very forgettable (even more so than it did in the books!) and the Dothraki wedding seemed rather tiny.

Also, neat intro-title thing. Very cool looking, symbolic, and a practical way to get everyone used to the locales.

Edited, Apr 18th 2011 9:03am by Eske
#41 Apr 18 2011 at 9:29 AM Rating: Good
Eske Esquire wrote:
Speaking of that wedding, the honeymoon was a fair bit harsher than I recall from the books. Yeesh. Smiley: frown
I thought so too; in fact, I thought it was a major deviation. Unless I am misremembering it and there is another scene later on in the book where this happens, GRRM made a huge deal of Drogo being very gentle in that scene, which leads Daenerys to accept him willingly as her husband. It's supposed to be a pretty major turning point for that story arc, so I wonder if they are going to put any focus on that.
#42 Apr 18 2011 at 9:47 AM Rating: Good
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Daimakaicho, Eater of Souls wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
Speaking of that wedding, the honeymoon was a fair bit harsher than I recall from the books. Yeesh. Smiley: frown
I thought so too; in fact, I thought it was a major deviation. Unless I am misremembering it and there is another scene later on in the book where this happens, GRRM made a huge deal of Drogo being very gentle in that scene, which leads Daenerys to accept him willingly as her husband. It's supposed to be a pretty major turning point for that story arc, so I wonder if they are going to put any focus on that.


My guess is that with the quick pacing of the first episode, the writers figured that the characterization shift for Drogo would come on too soon (i.e: he's introduced as a cold-blooded killer, then is immediately shown to have a softer side in his very next scene).

Either they plan to soften that side of his personality in the coming episodes, or they just figured that his character works well enough as a nasty guy. I do think that the latter could work, if they fiddle with Danaerys reactions a bit. If they have Drogo stay harsh, then Danny's maturation could be shown to come solely from the power that he gives her, or from the way that he protects her. I suppose that he doesn't have to have a gentle side for things to make sense.
#43 Apr 18 2011 at 10:03 AM Rating: Good
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Just seen first episode, very happy with it!

Winterfell is much as I imagined it. A working, Medieval type fortress, in a cold harsh land. That makes for lots of stone and mud, and not much luxury. Not enough wealth going around for things to be prettier.

I'm pleased with all the casting, and the acting is well enough for a TV series. Tyrion is really good right off the bat. For someone who doesn't remember the details of the story really well, this first episode was a really good summary. The starting point of the politics is established, the clearly different natures of the youngest Stark children established. Jon Snow's bastardry and slightly outcast treatment, the nature of the Lanister siblings and the Targaryon siblings all established. Great hair and make-up on the Targaryons, they are suitably silver.

Shame for Drogo he comes out looking like a rapist, but I guess the victim-like nature of the arranged marriage for Daenarys is shown up. While Sansa's naive enthusiasm for getting to wed a prince and live in a more exciting place shows a different dynamic for an arranged marriage.
#44 Apr 18 2011 at 10:49 AM Rating: Good
One thing that bugged me is that I didn't see Hodor at all. Did I just miss him (I find that somewhat unlikely, considering who he is supposed to be...), or do you think they might be purposefully leaving him out because of the nature of his character?
#45 Apr 18 2011 at 11:17 AM Rating: Good
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Daimakaicho, Eater of Souls wrote:
One thing that bugged me is that I didn't see Hodor at all. Did I just miss him (I find that somewhat unlikely, considering who he is supposed to be...), or do you think they might be purposefully leaving him out because of the nature of his character?


He didn't appear in it. I, for one, am not bothered at all that they didn't include him. I listened to Game of Thrones on audiobook, and Roy Dotrice (the narrator) constantly yammering "HOOOODOOOORRRR!!" got really old, really fast.

His removal could certainly be due to HBO not wanting to portray a mentally handicapped character. They're not easy to do, and GRRM didn't write Hodor with any subtlety (really, he's easily my least favorite character in the series) for them to work off of. Nor is his part really necessary. Seems like a logical scratch to me.


Back on the wedding scene for a minute: it occurred to me that HBO might have figured that the way the book was written might not have been well received. I mean, a girl gets sold into marriage, to a man whom she doesn't want to marry, then gets raped by him, but ends up liking it because he's kind of gentle about the rape? Could be they figured that they didn't want to open that controversial can of worms.
#46 Apr 18 2011 at 11:30 AM Rating: Good
Eske Esquire wrote:
Daimakaicho, Eater of Souls wrote:
One thing that bugged me is that I didn't see Hodor at all. Did I just miss him (I find that somewhat unlikely, considering who he is supposed to be...), or do you think they might be purposefully leaving him out because of the nature of his character?


He didn't appear in it. I, for one, am not bothered at all that they didn't include him. I listened to Game of Thrones on audiobook, and Roy Dotrice (the narrator) constantly yammering "HOOOODOOOORRRR!!" got really old, really fast.

His removal could certainly be due to HBO not wanting to portray a mentally handicapped character. They're not easy to do, and GRRM didn't write Hodor with any subtlety (really, he's easily my least favorite character in the series) for them to work off of. Nor is his part really necessary. Seems like a logical scratch to me.


Back on the wedding scene for a minute: it occurred to me that HBO might have figured that the way the book was written might not have been well received. I mean, a girl gets sold into marriage, to a man whom she doesn't want to marry, then gets raped by him, but ends up liking it because he's kind of gentle about the rape? Could be they figured that they didn't want to open that controversial can of worms.
I don't particularly like Hodor's character either, but how will Bran get around without Hodor to carry him on his back? Will they just ignore that aspect and not show him being carried around by anyone? Maybe they'll just have someone else do it? I certainly can't picture anyone else being able to carry him everywhere though. That was the only thing that raised a question in my mind.

Concerning the "rape", I can see where you're coming from, but I never really thought of it that way myself. It certainly started out that way, there's no denying that, but I always felt that by opening up to her and showing his gentle side, he showed that he understood, at least to an extent, the situation she was in, and she responded in kind by opening up to him as well. As far as I can remember, the sex never actually started until after she accepted him, in which case I think it doesn't necessarily have to be classified as rape (other than the fact that he still started out by taking her clothes off against her will, which is definitely still an issue). Again, I'm a little fuzzy on the details, so it's possible I'm getting this all wrong. Either way though, they're going to have to show some kind of event that gets Dany to fall for him, so it'll be interesting to see how they do that.
#47 Apr 18 2011 at 4:18 PM Rating: Good
Spoonless the Silent wrote:
I swear if GRRM kills Jon Snow, Arya, or Tyrion, I quit the series. Also, I'd like to see Nymeria return. Also, also I hope he doesn't kill Ghost.
Quit now, then.
#48 Apr 18 2011 at 4:40 PM Rating: Good
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Lubriderm the Fussy wrote:
Spoonless the Silent wrote:
I swear if GRRM kills Jon Snow, Arya, or Tyrion, I quit the series. Also, I'd like to see Nymeria return. Also, also I hope he doesn't kill Ghost.
Snape kills Dumbledore.
#49 Apr 19 2011 at 12:03 PM Rating: Good
I guess they were impressed with the outcome; HBO has already committed to a second season (presumably covering Clash of Kings?) after just the first episode. Source.
#50 Apr 19 2011 at 12:08 PM Rating: Good
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Daimakaicho, Eater of Souls wrote:
I guess they were impressed with the outcome; HBO has already committed to a second season (presumably covering Clash of Kings?) after just the first episode. Source.


Score.
#51 Apr 19 2011 at 4:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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So, y'know, if someone happened to find a streamed episode online that just happened to fall off a truck, I could use a link (in PM) Smiley: tongue

Really want to watch this, but my normal go-to source doesn't have anything up yet!
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