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#1 Mar 06 2010 at 6:48 PM Rating: Good
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So I've got this itch to read either Captain America or Iron Man, and I sit down and start on their first respective self titled books, only to realize that if I want the full story I have to read "Tales of Suspense" first. **** you, Stan Lee.

So while I, um, wait for that, let's say you were a cape during Civil War. Who's side would you be on? Personally, I'd probably have gone with Tony, because while I understand the whole tradition of masks and anonymity aspect of the other side of the argument, they are weapons, and like any other weapon their powers should be registered. I don't agree with the militarization of it, but letting nuclear weapons run around do as they please doesn't really appeal to me, either.
Civil War
Steve Rogers - Captain America:12 (50.0%)
Tony Stark - Iron Man:12 (50.0%)
Total:24

And no, this isn't a subtle attempt to gather opinions on which of the two I should start on first. Really.
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#2 Mar 06 2010 at 6:55 PM Rating: Decent
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I can't stand Captain America, so Tony Stark it is.
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#3 Mar 06 2010 at 8:05 PM Rating: Decent
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It depends. Are we playing by real world rules? If so, then Tony Stark for sure. Captain America may be fast and strong, but out of a hundred mercenary snipers hired one of them is bound to get lucky. If we're playing by comic book rules, then I choose neither because we'll all fall into the oblivion that is retconning regardless of side.

#4 Mar 06 2010 at 8:08 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm not nearly nerdy enough to be able to vote on this particular subject.
#5 Mar 06 2010 at 8:36 PM Rating: Decent
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I would be with Cap. I wouldn't want the government to tell me who the bad guys are.
#6 Mar 07 2010 at 5:58 AM Rating: Good
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When in doubt - go with Cap.

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#7 Mar 07 2010 at 6:45 AM Rating: Decent
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himdraug wrote:
When in doubt - go with Cap.



Amen to that!

As for the self titled books, just know that the first ones were written a heck of a long time ago, I recently started with the Essential Avengers and I have to say that those first 100+ episodes were pretty darn bad, sexist and violent. (and no, not against their enemies, they fought more along themselves as far as I can tell)
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#8 Mar 07 2010 at 10:50 AM Rating: Good
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I have heard much about the "Civil War" storyline. Is it something that will be (or already has been) compiled into a single "graphic novel" format book?
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#9 Mar 07 2010 at 11:48 PM Rating: Good
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I have heard much about the "Civil War" storyline. Is it something that will be (or already has been) compiled into a single "graphic novel" format book?


Yup.

And FYI- Iron Man just got retconned. He literally lost his mind & downloaded a version of his mind that he put on a hard drive pre civil war.

So he doesn't remember any of it, nor Secret Invasion.

I picked Cap as he had Nick Fury on his side. And Nick Fury is a bad ************.
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#10 Mar 08 2010 at 7:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
So while I, um, wait for that, let's say you were a cape during Civil War. Who's side would you be on? Personally, I'd probably have gone with Tony, because while I understand the whole tradition of masks and anonymity aspect of the other side of the argument, they are weapons, and like any other weapon their powers should be registered. I don't agree with the militarization of it, but letting nuclear weapons run around do as they please doesn't really appeal to me, either.

I assume you mean which side I'd be on politically and not which side I think would win in a giant bar brawl.

From my very basic understanding of this plotline (I'm not a comics person by any means), I'd go with the Capt. Many super powers are usable as weapons but they are an innate part of who the person is, either by birth or accident. Registering people based on the circumstances of their birth seems a bit more facist than I'm ready to be comfortable with.

If someone wants to actually create a weapon, as Stark did, then sure let him register it. If someone breaks the law and is convicted of the crime, then sure let their powers be registered just as they would for some "villain". But registering people for merely being born with it is like registering all men because they were born with a ***** and might become rapists.
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#11 Mar 08 2010 at 4:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
But registering people for merely being born with it is like registering all men because they were born with a ***** and might become rapists.

Except that in the Marvel universe some men are born with particularly big penises and could rape the entire world by themselves should they desire.

Now you could argue that registering superhumans might ultimately prove inadequate in addressing the issue, but suggesting that it is an infringement of the privacy rights of people who could very well destroy a city or two in a single tantrum is fairly ridiculous.
#12 Mar 08 2010 at 4:52 PM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
But registering people for merely being born with it is like registering all men because they were born with a ***** and might become rapists.

Except that in the Marvel universe some men are born with particularly big penises and could rape the entire world by themselves should they desire.

Now you could argue that registering superhumans might ultimately prove inadequate in addressing the issue, but suggesting that it is an infringement of the privacy rights of people who could very well destroy a city or two in a single tantrum is fairly ridiculous.


You could also make the argument that for large scale destructive systems legitimacy can and will become moot. You better be bringing some pretty large guns to the table if your goal is to rein in something with military strength equivalent to than of a small-mid size nation. That; or competent diplomacy.
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#13 Mar 08 2010 at 4:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Timelordwho wrote:
You could also make the argument that for large scale destructive systems legitimacy can and will become moot. You better be bringing some pretty large guns to the table if your goal is to rein in something with military strength equivalent to than of a small-mid size nation. That; or competent diplomacy.

Allegory wrote:
Now you could argue that registering superhumans might ultimately prove inadequate in addressing the issue,

It's not so nice when it's done to you now is it?!

Edited, Mar 8th 2010 4:57pm by Allegory
#14 Mar 08 2010 at 5:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Allegory wrote:
Now you could argue that registering superhumans might ultimately prove inadequate in addressing the issue, but suggesting that it is an infringement of the privacy rights of people who could very well destroy a city or two in a single tantrum is fairly ridiculous.

Of course it's an infringment. You're trying to say that it's a worthwhile infringement upon their rights but that doesn't make it stop being an infringement.
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#15 Mar 08 2010 at 5:49 PM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
You could also make the argument that for large scale destructive systems legitimacy can and will become moot. You better be bringing some pretty large guns to the table if your goal is to rein in something with military strength equivalent to than of a small-mid size nation. That; or competent diplomacy.

Allegory wrote:
Now you could argue that registering superhumans might ultimately prove inadequate in addressing the issue,

It's not so nice when it's done to you now is it?!

Edited, Mar 8th 2010 4:57pm by Allegory


I'm missing the part where meanness is taking place.

More of a constructive symbiosis.
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#16 Mar 08 2010 at 6:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Of course it's an infringment. You're trying to say that it's a worthwhile infringement upon their rights but that doesn't make it stop being an infringement.

You're correct, I spoke incorrectly. What I had intended and failed to get at was not that it was a worthwhile infringement, but that it was not longer worthwhile to pretend people had these rights. It's not that these rights are real and extreme circumstances prove an acceptable exemption, but that they never were there in the first place and in a universe significantly different than our own they are not longer useful to imagine.

That is why I think it is fairly ridiculous to make an argument that registering superhumans is an infringement on their rights.
#17 Mar 08 2010 at 6:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't know enough about imaginary Marvel world to say -- does the Bill of Rights and the 14th Amendment not exist in that world? If they do, then the super-powered folks should have a right to privacy which is being infringed upon by a legal onus to register their innate powers regardless of if/how they use them.
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#18 Mar 08 2010 at 6:57 PM Rating: Good
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The whole issue is over a team of good guys going in to stop a bunch of bad guys, who at the time weren't really doing anything other than being on the lamb, for their reality TV show to get ratings, and said bad guy used his power to get away and destroyed a school full of young children.

The 14th Amendment exists, along with the rest. Its basically everything we have, but with explosions. So congress, along with supporters of the change from the super hero community (IE: Tony Stark / Iron Man and others) created a bill to have everyone register and have them train so an incident like that wouldn't happen again.

Edited, Mar 8th 2010 7:57pm by lolgaxe
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#19 Mar 08 2010 at 7:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ok, so then it seems a pretty obvious infringement upon their rights if registration is mandatory. It might be one people think it worth it but it's an infringement nevertheless.
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#20 Mar 08 2010 at 7:10 PM Rating: Good
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You're correct, I spoke incorrectly. What I had intended and failed to get at was not that it was a worthwhile infringement, but that it was not longer worthwhile to pretend people had these rights. It's not that these rights are real and extreme circumstances prove an acceptable exemption, but that they never were there in the first place and in a universe significantly different than our own they are not longer useful to imagine.

That is why I think it is fairly ridiculous to make an argument that registering superhumans is an infringement on their rights.


Whom do they register to? Who makes them register? What is the penalty for non registration? Is that registration valuable enough to risk defection of parties which one would assume are of national interest?
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#21 Mar 08 2010 at 8:25 PM Rating: Good
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Is it like registration to the selective service that is mandatory?
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#22 Mar 09 2010 at 12:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, I don't know if I could side with someone that locks people up in a secret prison in the Negative Zone. You know, it's interesting that Annihilus invaded the universe because the marvel universe was expanding into his, but it isn't like anyone on Earth 616 had exactly respected the boundaries of his domain.

Talk about shades of gray, Reed Richards is pretty creepy in Civil War.

Edited, Mar 9th 2010 12:37am by Paskil
#23 Mar 09 2010 at 12:40 AM Rating: Decent
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On the subject of Damning Marvel...

One thing that has irked me is the way their stories are so disjointed. As an example from my last post: Annihilation books 1, 2, and 3. Just when the story seems to be working towards at least some sort of temporary resolution, it cuts off. This seems to be the case with all their books. I don't have the time, money, or resources to read through every other series to catch all the plot details and resolution. If you're going to make a separate plot involving crossovers, the entire story should start, run, and end in its entirety in the series. I don't care if you have to release 100 books to finish it, I'm not reading Amazing Spiderman #436 (or whatever) just to catch a few details not included in Civil War.
#24 Mar 09 2010 at 8:12 AM Rating: Good
Joph wrote:
Ok, so then it seems a pretty obvious infringement upon their rights if registration is mandatory. It might be one people think it worth it but it's an infringement nevertheless.


If I recall correctly, registration "is" (in the fictional Marvel World) only mandatory if you want to be a super hero. You had the option to retire if you have powers, or register if you wanted to use them. If you were not registered & used them in a public capacity, you were in violation of the Registration Act & the Tony Stark lead S.H.I.E.L.D (And now currently the Norman Osbourne run H.A.M.M.E.R.) would Party Van you. If you further refused to register, you got sent to prison.

It's kinda like registering a gun. If you use one in public it needs to be registered. If you simply own one & don't use it in public, it's kinda hard for the authorities to arrest you for an unregistered one.

Mutants weren't really factored in as the government had, at the time, tabs on the 198 that were left.

Cap had a real issue with this mostly because, back in his Nomad days, he had a real problem following the orders of some corrupt people. Government run Super Heroes post registration wasn't something he wanted to see abused again. Well, until their battle made a mess & hurt some folks causing Cap to surrender.

Then be "assassinated."

Which didn't actually happen. He was shot & put into suspended animation while being simultaneously unstuck in time, like Desmond on Lost, by the Red Skull who himself was "dead" but in the head of some other dude looking to transfer his consciousness into Cap's body.

Or something.

Oh and Bucky's not dead, he's the New Captain America.

So there's two.

Edited, Mar 9th 2010 1:20pm by Omegavegeta
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#25 Mar 09 2010 at 6:17 PM Rating: Good
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That "makes sense".
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#26 Mar 11 2010 at 12:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Omegavegeta wrote:
Cap had a real issue with this mostly because, back in his Nomad days, he had a real problem following the orders of some corrupt people. Government run Super Heroes post registration wasn't something he wanted to see abused again. Well, until their battle made a mess & hurt some folks causing Cap to surrender.

Then be "assassinated."

Which didn't actually happen. He was shot & put into suspended animation while being simultaneously unstuck in time, like Desmond on Lost, by the Red Skull who himself was "dead" but in the head of some other dude looking to transfer his consciousness into Cap's body.

Or something.

Oh and Bucky's not dead, he's the New Captain America.

So there's two.

I don't read comics although I sometimes enjoy reading threads about them and this is exactly why. I'm amused at the soap opera nature of the whole thing but I couldn't convince myself to actually spend money that that sort of silliness.
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#27 Mar 11 2010 at 5:49 PM Rating: Good
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What Jophiel said.
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#28 Mar 11 2010 at 5:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Omegavegeta wrote:
Cap had a real issue with this mostly because, back in his Nomad days, he had a real problem following the orders of some corrupt people. Government run Super Heroes post registration wasn't something he wanted to see abused again. Well, until their battle made a mess & hurt some folks causing Cap to surrender.

Then be "assassinated."

Which didn't actually happen. He was shot & put into suspended animation while being simultaneously unstuck in time, like Desmond on Lost, by the Red Skull who himself was "dead" but in the head of some other dude looking to transfer his consciousness into Cap's body.

Or something.

Oh and Bucky's not dead, he's the New Captain America.

So there's two.

I don't read comics although I sometimes enjoy reading threads about them and this is exactly why. I'm amused at the soap opera nature of the whole thing but I couldn't convince myself to actually spend money that that sort of silliness.


Yeah, I feel the same way, only after having bought well over a thousand of them first.

It's addictive, it really is. Even after being bored to death with the repepitive nature of it (as all soap operas are), I still have to stop myself buying new ones.


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#29 Mar 11 2010 at 9:54 PM Rating: Good
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#30 Mar 12 2010 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
I'm addicted, going on 15 years.

I'm enjoying Seige, currently. Ares getting ripped in half by the Sentry being, well neat.

Screenshot
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#31 Mar 12 2010 at 1:20 PM Rating: Good
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That was pretty neat of Bob. I'm betting he dies or gets lobotomized or whatever just before the Avengers reset.
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#32 Mar 12 2010 at 1:37 PM Rating: Good
Bob's a lot more interesting as a bad guy.

I dunno what's gonna happen to him, though. Sure, the big 3 are gonna go up against him, but gods don't seem to have bother him all that much. He's pretty much going to have to be an Avenger, I don't know what else they could do with him.

His wife lobotomized him recently & it didn't stick.

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#33 Mar 12 2010 at 6:28 PM Rating: Good
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Even as a badguy, he just doesn't seem all that interesting. Then again, I've never been a fan of any character who's regularly described as the "Most Powerful Being in Existence." I like my characters to have flaws; Massive flaws. Look at Spidy. There's a guy that can't make his real life work for anything.

Ares, though. He made me laugh a few times, and I'll miss him.
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#34 Mar 12 2010 at 6:47 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Even as a badguy, he just doesn't seem all that interesting. Then again, I've never been a fan of any character who's regularly described as the "Most Powerful Being in Existence." I like my characters to have flaws; Massive flaws. Look at Spidy. There's a guy that can't make his real life work for anything.

Ares, though. He made me laugh a few times, and I'll miss him.
Screenshot


You're going to miss him? For maybe twenty or so episodes before he's back in. It's Marvel, just about everyone comes back, I'm still expecting them to bring back all the mutants they've been butchering in the last few years somehow. Maybe in a sort of Dallas way, that would be fun.

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#35 Mar 13 2010 at 5:48 PM Rating: Good
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At least they can't pull a "HA HA HE WAS JUST SLEEPING" like they did with Captain America. I wonder how they'll bring him back. Maybe pull a Thor and Donald Blake and soon Hercules and Asmodeus Amadeus Cho and have him be the manifestation of a mortal.

Edit: Wrong weird name.

Edited, Mar 13th 2010 8:22pm by lolgaxe
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#36 Mar 14 2010 at 12:31 AM Rating: Good
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I like my characters to have flaws.


Bob's got some flaws, being an all powerful yet insane "drug" addict & all.
As the Sentry, he's almost perfect though. Except when the Void comes out to play.

As for Ares' return, he is an immortal god so it's certainly to be expected at some point. However, his son Phobos is gonna have to wreck some **** first.

Anyone reading the Deadpool/Spidey/Hitmonkey crossover atm? It's a hoot.
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#37 Mar 14 2010 at 4:18 PM Rating: Good
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Omegavegeta wrote:
Anyone reading the Deadpool/Spidey/Hitmonkey crossover atm? It's a hoot.
Yes, and yes.
Screenshot

Deadpool is the new Spider-Man/Wolverine hybrid. He has a dozen or so of his own titles, and he's all over the place even after the fact. Which works for him, he doesn't quite work as well when he's by himself, but team him up with someone else and its MAGIC. I enjoy his Team-Ups book, and I'm looking forward to the Deadpool Corps.

Edited, Mar 14th 2010 5:19pm by lolgaxe
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#38 Mar 15 2010 at 7:25 AM Rating: Excellent
I like Deadpool, but I simply can't afford to pick up all his books nowadays. However, I still love my collection of the early Joe Kelly/Ed McGuinnes run.

Screenshot


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#39 Mar 16 2010 at 5:43 PM Rating: Good
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I think its time for another Agent X Miniseries, or dare I dream? A full monthly series.
Screenshot

Okay, so he was just Deadpool 2.0, but it was still amusing.



Edit: I've been waiting for this for what feels like forever.
Screenshot

Also: Bob.
Screenshot


Edited, Mar 17th 2010 1:53pm by lolgaxe
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George Carlin wrote:
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#40SorinMarcov, Posted: Mar 17 2010 at 10:49 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) lolgaxe.... You are so weird dude.... I guess you are not marvel enthusiast.. You are a DC fan...
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