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Wow, Star trek was stupid. *spoilers*Follow

#1 Jun 20 2009 at 12:59 PM Rating: Default
Although it was a well-acted film with nice performances, man it was stupid as hell. O HAI lets stop the drilling of earth by blowing up the drill...yet they didn't think to do that before Vulcan was pulped. Instead, they had to drop kirk and sulu manually onto the platform.

O HAI, I'm young james t kirk who tries to outrun a flying vehicle by driving my dad's car off of a cliff.

I am also the same james t kirk who is smuggled onto the enterprise, and rather than being tossed into the brig, manages to successfully warn them of impending doom by logic so flimsy it begs belief.

Let alone the whole mining ship from 120 years in the future capable of pwning entire warship fleets. It is also covered in gratuitous spikes, is ten times bigger than warships, and seems to have a boatload of advanced photon torpedos. Plus, the whole "Romulans are really grungy guys with tattoos" kick.

O HAI I'm spock, but don't tell other me because of paradoxes. No wait, I lied just to get you two to become friends, despite me in the end telling you I lied so you two would become friends.

Hi, I am spock who is a trained, logical starfleet officer considered once of the highest in my generation. I can be easily punked off of my command in 3 minutes by Matt Damon asking if I feel stuff. I am emotionally compromised, yet James T Kirk, who lost his father by the same person, and who's whole argument to spock before spock iced him was to go after the ship for revenge, isn't.

Just so much suspension of belief is possible before the movie becomes a farce. What the **** did Uhuru see in Spock? They never interact before, and then suddenly she is kissing him in the lift?

I'm not even talking about normal trek screw-ups. Sending sulu and kirk down to disbale a platform is fine, because in the old series they'd do the same thing, despite instead having a trained security staff on the vessel you'd think that would specialize in such things. Just like dumb crap. Spock can't tell himself about his existence, because of the friendship being required, but oh hell, lets just radically alter the timeline by telling scotty how to discover transporting objects onto warping vessels maybe BILLIONS of miles away years in advance.

J.J abrams needs to quit the strobes and shakycams too. That whole red matter imploding thing was killer on the eyes. And also DURRRRRR we know detonating red matter creates a singularity which transforms into a black hole, so lets just STAND STILL, watch it happen, and then get sucked in.

I wasn't keen on the idea of a remake, but I was willing to suspend feeling and go watch it with family, but man, I didn't expect it to be so absurd.

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#2 Jun 20 2009 at 1:05 PM Rating: Good
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Welcome to last month.

Most of these points had already been discussed in great detail in the other thread.

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=5;mid=124250127173316293;num=18;page=1
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=5;mid=1241752677168711684;num=15;page=1
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=5;mid=1241777937271744024;num=49;page=1

Edit:
Seriously, they are even all on this page!

Edited, Jun 20th 2009 5:08pm by TirithRR
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#3 Jun 20 2009 at 1:20 PM Rating: Default
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The Neispace of Doom wrote:
but man, I didn't expect it to be so absurd.

I don't see how you could have expected anything else. First, it was J.J. Abrams, and nothing he's worked on has ever been good. Second, it was clearly a mass market movie armed at gathering as many viewers as possible. Clearly it was going to suck for the same reasons Spiderman 3 sucked, for the same reasons Transformers sucked, and for the same reasons the next pop culture icon movie will suck.
#4 Jun 20 2009 at 2:04 PM Rating: Good
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Oh come on... Fringe isn't bad.
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#5 Jun 20 2009 at 2:20 PM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
The Neispace of Doom wrote:
but man, I didn't expect it to be so absurd.

I don't see how you could have expected anything else. First, it was J.J. Abrams, and nothing he's worked on has ever been good. Second, it was clearly a mass market movie armed at gathering as many viewers as possible. Clearly it was going to suck for the same reasons Spiderman 3 sucked, for the same reasons Transformers sucked, and for the same reasons the next pop culture icon movie will suck.


Heh, we really had totally different tastes in movies.

Spiderman 3 was extremely superior to the second one, even better than the first one. Transformers was fun and entertaining and this new Star Trek was a good movie, with some stupid scenes in it.

Most of the OP's problems are present in about all the Star Trek movies, if not series too.

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#6 Jun 20 2009 at 5:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Zieveraar wrote:
Heh, we really had totally different tastes in movies.

We certainly do.
Zieveraar wrote:
Spiderman 3 was extremely superior to the second one, even better than the first one. Transformers was fun and entertaining and this new Star Trek was a good movie, with some stupid scenes in it.

I usppose I have two main complaints about these types of movies.

1. The films are entirely formulaic. They're going for the widest appeal possible, and this has been perfected into five components: action, high budget special effects, comedy, love subplot, drama. These may sound like fairly generic components you could find in most any movie, but there is proof. First, you will always find each of these components; Spiderman, Hulk, Transformers, Ironman, Fantastic 4, etc. Not one of these films lacks any one of these components. Second, you will only find the elements in the films. Not one of those films include horror, not one includes mystery, not one includes adventure.

2. The writing is absolutely horrible. Transformers for example, Bumble helps Sam woo his girl and he and the rest of the autobots are sneaking around from Sam's parents so that they don't find out. These are robots on a mission to "save the earth," and obtain an object infinitely important to them, and they're hiding from a teen's parents. I realise the scenes were done for the sake of the love subplot and for comedy, but it was at significant expense to the story. LAter, once they have the allspark in their possession, Sam still carries it. There is absolutely no reason why he should still be in the movie. He only slows them down, but he is forced to carry it around so that the audience can continue to live vicariously through his character. It would be less ridiculous if he suddenly gained jedi powers and single handedly defeated Megatron just so that they could add in more special effects.

The people I talked to who liked the movie basically wrote off the story entirely, saying that's not the point of the movie. They watch it for the 15 minutes of special effect action sequences. To me that like buying a pack of chocolate chip cookies, picking out all the chocolate chips, and then throwing the rest of the cookie away.
#7 Jun 20 2009 at 8:46 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
I usppose I have two main complaints about these types of movies.

1. The films are entirely formulaic. They're going for the widest appeal possible, and this has been perfected into five components: action, high budget special effects, comedy, love subplot, drama. These may sound like fairly generic components you could find in most any movie, but there is proof. First, you will always find each of these components; Spiderman, Hulk, Transformers, Ironman, Fantastic 4, etc. Not one of these films lacks any one of these components. Second, you will only find the elements in the films. Not one of those films include horror, not one includes mystery, not one includes adventure.

2. The writing is absolutely horrible. Transformers for example, Bumble helps Sam woo his girl and he and the rest of the autobots are sneaking around from Sam's parents so that they don't find out. These are robots on a mission to "save the earth," and obtain an object infinitely important to them, and they're hiding from a teen's parents. I realise the scenes were done for the sake of the love subplot and for comedy, but it was at significant expense to the story. LAter, once they have the allspark in their possession, Sam still carries it. There is absolutely no reason why he should still be in the movie. He only slows them down, but he is forced to carry it around so that the audience can continue to live vicariously through his character. It would be less ridiculous if he suddenly gained jedi powers and single handedly defeated Megatron just so that they could add in more special effects.

The people I talked to who liked the movie basically wrote off the story entirely, saying that's not the point of the movie. They watch it for the 15 minutes of special effect action sequences. To me that like buying a pack of chocolate chip cookies, picking out all the chocolate chips, and then throwing the rest of the cookie away


"O man. All these fictional sci-fi movies & TV the masses enjoy are sooo unrealistic!"

Which is why Allegory watches so much Anime.

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#8 Jun 20 2009 at 9:31 PM Rating: Good
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Omegavegeta wrote:
"O man. All these fictional sci-fi movies & TV the masses enjoy are sooo unrealistic!"

Except most scifi films/books try to be internally consistent. Transformers was just simple, bad writing.
#9 Jun 21 2009 at 2:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Allegory wrote:
[quote=Zieveraar]I usppose I have two main complaints about these types of movies.

1. The films are entirely formulaic. They're going for the widest appeal possible, and this has been perfected into five components: action, high budget special effects, comedy, love subplot, drama. These may sound like fairly generic components you could find in most any movie, but there is proof. First, you will always find each of these components; Spiderman, Hulk, Transformers, Ironman, Fantastic 4, etc. Not one of these films lacks any one of these components. Second, you will only find the elements in the films. Not one of those films include horror, not one includes mystery, not one includes adventure.

2. The writing is absolutely horrible. Transformers for example, Bumble helps Sam woo his girl and he and the rest of the autobots are sneaking around from Sam's parents so that they don't find out. These are robots on a mission to "save the earth," and obtain an object infinitely important to them, and they're hiding from a teen's parents. I realise the scenes were done for the sake of the love subplot and for comedy, but it was at significant expense to the story. LAter, once they have the allspark in their possession, Sam still carries it. There is absolutely no reason why he should still be in the movie. He only slows them down, but he is forced to carry it around so that the audience can continue to live vicariously through his character. It would be less ridiculous if he suddenly gained jedi powers and single handedly defeated Megatron just so that they could add in more special effects.

The people I talked to who liked the movie basically wrote off the story entirely, saying that's not the point of the movie. They watch it for the 15 minutes of special effect action sequences. To me that like buying a pack of chocolate chip cookies, picking out all the chocolate chips, and then throwing the rest of the cookie away.


The Marvel movies tend to be similar to the comic, those aren't all that complicated either.

I agree completely that most of the Marvel and related superhero movies do not have any truly compelling story. Ang Lee tried it though, with quite a good movie to show for it, but that one failed unfortunately, giving rise to the rather awful remake which even the cast couldn't save this time.

These movies aren't the saviours of science fiction, but stereotypical movies, which are enjoyable if we're lucky. And some are quite enjoyable, like Star Trek or Iron Man or the first two X-men.

It reminds me of a comedy show they produce in Belgium, about a soccer team (amateur level), it's been going on for about 21 years now, and they are finally going to stop the abomination it is. It lasted 21 years because people kept watching it. Not because it's good.




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#10 Jun 21 2009 at 3:12 AM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
First, it was J.J. Abrams, and nothing he's worked on has ever been good.
You have to admit it could have been worse. It could have been Uwe Boll.

Zieveraar wrote:
The Marvel movies tend to be similar to the comic,
Deadpool would disagree with you wholeheartedly. Also, Sandman didn't ice Uncle Ben. They might be decent movies, but they're pretty atrocious if you're fans of the comic books first.
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#11 Jun 21 2009 at 5:45 AM Rating: Good
I have higher hopes for the Deadpool movie.

Overall, Marvel has made some decent movies & I'd like to think that since Blade, have put forth more good than bad.

The movies are entertaining at least, from a Comic fans perspective. It's certainly neat to see things that you've only experienced through the solitary medium of a comic book on the big screen. Admittedly, you may feel slighted as the characters have been "dumbed" down a bit for the masses, but if those masses pick up a comic because of it...

Well, there you go right there.

Hollywood should apologize for Wanted though, that comic was a gajillion times better than that piece of garbage.
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#12 Jun 21 2009 at 7:23 AM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Allegory wrote:
First, it was J.J. Abrams, and nothing he's worked on has ever been good.
You have to admit it could have been worse. It could have been Uwe Boll.

Zieveraar wrote:
The Marvel movies tend to be similar to the comic,
Deadpool would disagree with you wholeheartedly. Also, Sandman didn't ice Uncle Ben. They might be decent movies, but they're pretty atrocious if you're fans of the comic books first.


Deadpool would have my head for it, I'm quite sure Smiley: lol

I'm more referring to the fact that the average Marvel tale isn't really all that much better than the movies released. Granted, they aren't all as bad as X-Men III either, luckily for Marvel.

The movies are indeed not really following the continuity and canon of the marvel comics, that's for certain.
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#13 Jun 21 2009 at 8:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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The film wasn't that hot, but...

Quote:
Let alone the whole mining ship from 120 years in the future capable of pwning entire warship fleets. It is also covered in gratuitous spikes, is ten times bigger than warships, and seems to have a boatload of advanced photon torpedos. Plus, the whole "Romulans are really grungy guys with tattoos" kick.


Of course it's bigger than warships, it's meant to hold a great deal of ore. You know, being a mining ship? That something with limited arms for its period (presumably to eliminate the need for a fighter escort while mining) can kick the **** of **** made 120 years earlier isn't surprising.

Quote:
O HAI, I'm young james t kirk who tries to outrun a flying vehicle by driving my dad's car off of a cliff.


Ugh.

Most of the genuine oddities are common to all series and films of star trek - start trek combat and tactics are not realistic and never ever have been.
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#14 Jun 22 2009 at 5:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Too lazy to scroll back up and quote, but I'd just like to point out that Spiderman 3 was terrible. 2 was better in practically every single way that a movie can be better than another movie.
#15 Jun 22 2009 at 6:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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The lack of nudity from miss Dunst is disappointing.
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#16 Jun 23 2009 at 3:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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4 should have Mysterio. Played by Bruce Campbell. Mysterio is always about **** with Spidy's head, and what better way than by a guy that has been around in all the movies.
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#17 Jun 23 2009 at 5:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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Late to the party, but I just wanted to see what everyone was talking about. Afterall, there have only been 2 Spiderman movies. Smiley: mad
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#18 Jun 23 2009 at 10:53 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
Seriously, they are even all on this page!


eh, i only got around to seeing it because my father, who is an incredible science fiction/fantasy geek, was visiting and wanted to see it. Nice to know other people felt the same way.

Quote:
Of course it's bigger than warships, it's meant to hold a great deal of ore. You know, being a mining ship? That something with limited arms for its period (presumably to eliminate the need for a fighter escort while mining) can kick the **** of sh*t made 120 years earlier isn't surprising.


I'm not too up on my star trek timelines, but I don't think it was until deep space nine you got the idea of shuttle "fighter" escorts, usually it was cap ship versus cap ship battles. About the ore, well it could be anything-a mining ship should probably have a factory on board to process it, but then again this one was warp capable.

I really think though they could have called it a warship and it would have made more sense, the drill was not so necessary imo.

Quote:
I don't see how you could have expected anything else. First, it was J.J. Abrams, and nothing he's worked on has ever been good. Second, it was clearly a mass market movie armed at gathering as many viewers as possible. Clearly it was going to suck for the same reasons Spiderman 3 sucked, for the same reasons Transformers sucked, and for the same reasons the next pop culture icon movie will suck.


It's star trek though,so my mental bar is lowered, and I don't mind some level of absurdity for a fun film. This is a movie series that had the original cast time travel back into modern day america to save the whales, if i recall. But when its absurd, even for a trek film, yeah that's surprising.

Quote:
Deadpool would have my head for it, I'm quite sure

I'm more referring to the fact that the average Marvel tale isn't really all that much better than the movies released. Granted, they aren't all as bad as X-Men III either, luckily for Marvel.

The movies are indeed not really following the continuity and canon of the marvel comics, that's for certain


They really can't. Spiderman especially seems vulnerable to it, because beyond the origin story, marvel screws the **** out him. Good luck being faithful to explaining how spiderman found the symbiote in that weird other planet the beyonder created during the first secret war. Current continuity is all messed up, spiderman unmasked himself during the civil war, has had to deal with being some crazy spider-totem thing, had to deal with that bizarre one new day storyline...

Quote:
Except most scifi films/books try to be internally consistent. Transformers was just simple, bad writing.


what's really sad is that the animated cartoon had a better and more internally consistent premise, despite the weirdness of energon cubes and optimus prime magically forming a blazing axe. The autobots flee cybertron with the matrix, megatron and the decepticons catch up and they crash the ship into earth. It reactivates later and repairs friend and foe alike.

And the enemies, well, speak.
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#19 Jun 24 2009 at 3:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:


Quote:
Deadpool would have my head for it, I'm quite sure

I'm more referring to the fact that the average Marvel tale isn't really all that much better than the movies released. Granted, they aren't all as bad as X-Men III either, luckily for Marvel.

The movies are indeed not really following the continuity and canon of the marvel comics, that's for certain


They really can't. Spiderman especially seems vulnerable to it, because beyond the origin story, marvel screws the **** out him. Good luck being faithful to explaining how spiderman found the symbiote in that weird other planet the beyonder created during the first secret war. Current continuity is all messed up, spiderman unmasked himself during the civil war, has had to deal with being some crazy spider-totem thing, had to deal with that bizarre one new day storyline...


I've been using my subscription to the marvel comics digital online site to try and update my knowledge on the whole Civil War thing, I missed most of it when it came out. I knew Captain America gets a bullet in the head because that was actually mentioned in the news (well, at least online), only recently read that Spiderman unmasked himself.

The Beyonder tales were fun the first series, not so much the second time and I believe it ended with him being revealed as a sentient infinity cube or something?

That Secret Wars thing set a few things in motion for all involved, with Venom being the biggest thing.



I saw Star Trek again last night, I have to say that I liked it more the second time. Sure, there are faults in the movie (the whole Kirk marrooned on that iceplanet was borderline retarded for instance) but as a whole it is a good movie.

As for that mining ship, let's not forget that it's a Romulan one. They're not the most rational and sane race to be found. A Federation one would not be equipped like that, but a Romulan one does seem feasible.

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#20 Jun 24 2009 at 3:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Zieveraar wrote:
only recently read that Spiderman unmasked himself.
Then Marvel changed their minds and made it all just not happen. I mean, something like A WHOLE YEAR OF STORYLINE just "didn't happen."
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#21 Jun 24 2009 at 5:45 AM Rating: Good
Quote:
Then Marvel changed their minds and made it all just not happen. I mean, something like A WHOLE YEAR OF STORYLINE just "didn't happen."


But while I enjoyed some of JMS' run on ASM (Morlun & Ezekiel were cool), "The Other" & the Gwen/Osborn love children being stricken from continuity weren't a bad thing.
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#22 Jun 24 2009 at 9:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Zieveraar wrote:
Spiderman 3 was extremely superior to the second one, even better than the first one.


There's something wrong with your head if you think Spiderman 3 was a good film.

Lolgaxe wrote:
Then Marvel changed their minds and made it all just not happen. I mean, something like A WHOLE YEAR OF STORYLINE just "didn't happen."


That whole retcon was **** Don't hire an author renowned for long, complex story arcs, then decide you don't like his story arc and just remove it from the continuity. JSM's stuff wasn't 100% gold, but I would rather they stuck with it instead of trying that kind of clumsy-ass editorial retcon.

It's almost as bad as what they're doing to Batman at the moment. Everyone knows that the caped crusader is just going to get rescued by Booster Gold and this whole Batman: Reborn **** will be forgotten as fast as last night's drinking.
#23 Jun 24 2009 at 2:06 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Zieveraar wrote:
only recently read that Spiderman unmasked himself.
Then Marvel changed their minds and made it all just not happen. I mean, something like A WHOLE YEAR OF STORYLINE just "didn't happen."


Really?? Haven't gotten to that point yet Smiley: lol

I get visions of Patrick Duffy stepping out of the shower here.


Quote:
Zieveraar wrote:
Spiderman 3 was extremely superior to the second one, even better than the first one.


There's something wrong with your head if you think Spiderman 3 was a good film.



Much better than the really boring part 2 imo. Doc Oc was ridiculous, heck that whole movie was ridiculous.

Then again, I've always preferred X-Men and Wolverine anyway.
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#24 Jun 24 2009 at 8:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Zieveraar wrote:
Much better than the really boring part 2 imo. Doc Oc was ridiculous, heck that whole movie was ridiculous.

Then again, I've always preferred X-Men and Wolverine anyway.


I'm inclined to say that while the choice between 2 and 3 is a toss-up between Doc Ock and Venom/Hobgoblin/Sandman, you can't say that 3 was better than the first one. Not by any stretch of the imagination. The first one actually had a plot.
#25 Jun 24 2009 at 9:38 PM Rating: Good
I don't mind the "post" One More Day stories, but I'm not collecting them anymore either.

I'm still enjoying the "main" Marvel U Comics Spidey character in New Avengers, but the combination of the post One More Day cast on ASM & the fact that it comes out like, every week, has lead me to drop it from my regular pull list for the first time in almost 17 years.

And the relaunching of Ultimate Spidey better be good, or imma be ****
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#26 Jun 25 2009 at 3:13 AM Rating: Good
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zepoodle wrote:
I'm inclined to say that while the choice between 2 and 3 is a toss-up between Doc Ock and Venom/Green Goblin/Sandman,
It was Harry, and I raged at the eXtreme Hoverboard look he was given. Not that I blame anyone, there was a lot to rage about in the third movie.

I'm really not sure how I feel about the retcon, though. I'm glad the Wonder Goblin Twins (Activate!) don't exist anymore, but Ezekiel and Peter as a teacher were probably some of the best story elements in a long time. Likewise, I'm going to miss the WolverSpidy Claws just for the laughs, but not the Spidy Night Vision or Spidy ANYTHING STICKS TO MY ENTIRE BODY powers. Although, I do wonder where those went. A toss up, over all.

Oh, and the Kingpin fight. That was awesome.



Edit: Just finished reading ASM 598. Smiley: oyvey is my reaction.

Edited, Jun 25th 2009 7:57am by lolgaxe
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#27 Jun 25 2009 at 7:23 AM Rating: Good
Aunt May should have stayed dead from back in ASM #400 (That **** made me cry).

Which is funny, cause that was during Mark Bagley's run on ASM which must have been a few years before USM which which just relaunched for it's 10year which means...

Yup. I'm old.

Oh, & this thread is now about comics. Right now: Spider-Man

Ultimate version or main Marvel U version?

I go with Ultimate, barring it's relaunch sucking.
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#28 Jun 25 2009 at 7:26 AM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
zepoodle wrote:
I'm inclined to say that while the choice between 2 and 3 is a toss-up between Doc Ock and Venom/Green Goblin/Sandman,
It was Harry, and I raged at the eXtreme Hoverboard look he was given. Not that I blame anyone, there was a lot to rage about in the third movie.


The film credited him as "New Goblin" anyway.

Omegavegeta wrote:
I go with Ultimate, barring it's relaunch sucking.


Ultimate started off pretty awesome, but it's becoming progressively **** as time goes on. I think it's just a degeneration issue. It was supposed to be a full universe reboot so they could play with the characters without messing up the previous canon, but it eventually established its own canon which it now can't avoid messing with. Which I guess is the point of this whole Ultimatum ****

Really, I'm happy with the old universe. I don't mind people **** with the canon so long as they tell a good story in the process. Some of the best comic book stories ignore the canon entirely.

Edited, Jun 25th 2009 3:32pm by zepoodle
#29 Jun 25 2009 at 9:22 AM Rating: Good
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Really, I'm happy with the old universe. I don't mind people @#%^ing with the canon so long as they tell a good story in the process. Some of the best comic book stories ignore the canon entirely.


Probably because the majority of the canon is so mind bogglingly stupid.
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#30 Jun 26 2009 at 2:55 AM Rating: Good
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Ultimate universe where the current Ultimatum series is taking place? If so, then I'm definitely more for the main universe. Any universe where Magneto gets his arm cut off with a metal sword is nowhere I want to be.

Screenshot
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#31 Jun 26 2009 at 3:17 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Ultimate universe where the current Ultimatum series is taking place? If so, then I'm definitely more for the main universe. Any universe where Magneto gets his arm cut off with a metal sword is nowhere I want to be.

Screenshot


He's gonna rape her.
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#32 Jun 26 2009 at 8:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Kavekk wrote:
Probably because the majority of the canon is so mind bogglingly stupid.


Most of it is due to rampant fanboyism in the industry. Giving jobs to your fans isn't as great an idea as it sounds. Have you paid any attention to what comic book fans say and write?

Quote:
Ultimate universe where the current Ultimatum series is taking place? If so, then I'm definitely more for the main universe. Any universe where Magneto gets his arm cut off with a metal sword is nowhere I want to be.


Jeph Loeb has gone nuts. I feel for the guy, but I don't feel that he should be writing while he's so nuts.
#33 Jun 26 2009 at 9:49 AM Rating: Decent
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There are three reasons I won't read Marvel or DC comics.

1. The retcons. I'm not bothered by saying a year of storyline didn't happen. I'm bothered by the reason a retcon is needed: they want to change the story. Making Peter Parker a high schooler breaks the old story.

2. Multiple authors. No consistent vsion. Essentially all authors after the first are trying to milk the character for money, not actually trying to continue the story.

3. Crossovers. Probably the biggest reason. Can a fan **** bring in big bucks when you've run out of real ideas? Sure! Can it brutally massacre the stories of all those involved? Always. At least with manga I know I'll never see Ichigo and Naruto team up to take down Yagami Light.
#34 Jun 26 2009 at 2:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Allegory wrote:
There are three reasons I won't read Marvel or DC comics.

1. The retcons. I'm not bothered by saying a year of storyline didn't happen. I'm bothered by the reason a retcon is needed: they want to change the story. Making Peter Parker a high schooler breaks the old story.

2. Multiple authors. No consistent vsion. Essentially all authors after the first are trying to milk the character for money, not actually trying to continue the story.

3. Crossovers. Probably the biggest reason. Can a fan **** bring in big bucks when you've run out of real ideas? Sure! Can it brutally massacre the stories of all those involved? Always. At least with manga I know I'll never see Ichigo and Naruto team up to take down Yagami Light.


Several crossovers aren't very good, but there have been a couple that were more than worth the read. Ofcourse, now I have to start sum some up I suppose Smiley: grin

Age of Apocalypse does come to mind as one of the biggest and best, Onslaught wasn't all bad but not really all that great either.

My biggest problem is just the extreme repetition. Just about everybody dies and comes back, stories reappear, slightly altered. There's just so many times the same characters can experience the same thing. Just different names after a while.
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#35 Jun 27 2009 at 11:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Allegory wrote:
There are three reasons I won't read Marvel or DC comics.

1. The retcons. I'm not bothered by saying a year of storyline didn't happen. I'm bothered by the reason a retcon is needed: they want to change the story. Making Peter Parker a high schooler breaks the old story.

2. Multiple authors. No consistent vsion. Essentially all authors after the first are trying to milk the character for money, not actually trying to continue the story.

3. Crossovers. Probably the biggest reason. Can a fan **** bring in big bucks when you've run out of real ideas? Sure! Can it brutally massacre the stories of all those involved? Always. At least with manga I know I'll never see Ichigo and Naruto team up to take down Yagami Light.


There are several reasons I don't read manga, but I guess it'll only displease you to say them.
#36 Jun 28 2009 at 12:13 AM Rating: Good
Quote:
1. The retcons. I'm not bothered by saying a year of storyline didn't happen. I'm bothered by the reason a retcon is needed: they want to change the story. Making Peter Parker a high schooler breaks the old story.

2. Multiple authors. No consistent vsion. Essentially all authors after the first are trying to milk the character for money, not actually trying to continue the story.

3. Crossovers. Probably the biggest reason. Can a fan **** bring in big bucks when you've run out of real ideas? Sure! Can it brutally massacre the stories of all those involved? Always. At least with manga I know I'll never see Ichigo and Naruto team up to take down Yagami Light.


1. Making Peter a high schooler again in USM didn't break the story at all. It was simply a retelling of the story updated for the modern era. It doesn't remain faithful to the cannon but is instead inspired by it. UXMen was the same thing, but it just started to suck about halfway through.

While The Ultimates I & II are some of the greatest Marvel stories ever told.

2. USM had a consistent vision, as did Y-The Last Man. I understand where you're coming from with this one, though. Which is why nowadays I tend to pick up some of the "big" Marvel & DC books only when writers/artists I like are on them.

And The Ultimates I & II as well as the Joss Whedon/John Cassidy run on Astonishing X-Men are a couple examples of "consistant vision". I remember Jim Lee did a years worth of Batman too (forget who wrote it. Millar?) which was cool.

3. Crossovers can suck & are a huge drain on the wallet. However, sometimes they don't suck too. Case in point the recent crossover between Deadpool & the Thunderbolts. Hilariously awesome.

Truth be told, I pick up Marvel books mostly out of habit & DC books only when I like the creators. Outside of that, Invincible, The Walking Dead, & Kick-Ass are really the only indie books I read regularly.

Edited, Jun 28th 2009 4:15am by Omegavegeta
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#37 Jun 28 2009 at 5:56 AM Rating: Good
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Why does everyone always spell "canon" "cannon"?
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#38 Jun 28 2009 at 6:47 AM Rating: Good
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I was just left wondering why they didn't teleport a nuke aboard the mining vessel when they opened up for teleporting.

'Hay u gusy, plz send ur captian here 4 executions!'
'Uhm, okay...'
*beeeeeam*
'o shi- u set up us teh bomb!!1'

*boom*

But then again, if they'd just done that, we wouldn't have had a movie to watch. It would've all been over before Kirk was even born.

Edited, Jun 28th 2009 4:48pm by Mazra
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#39 Jun 28 2009 at 3:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Omegavegeta wrote:
3. Crossovers can suck & are a huge drain on the wallet. However, sometimes they don't suck too. Case in point the recent crossover between Deadpool & the Thunderbolts. Hilariously awesome.
I find that good and bad. Good in that Deadpool has been my favorite Marvel character for a long, long time, and the more titles he's in, the more titles I get to enjoy his madcap shenanigans. The bad news is that Deadpool is quickly becoming the new Wolverine, in that they're putting him into EVERYTHING. Personally, I'm waiting for his crossover with the Power Pack.

Speaking of Wolverine, Daken can be pretty funny, too. I get the feeling that Marvel is going to retire Wolverine for a while (As in kill him) and let Daken take over in the X-Men, Avengers, Power Pack, Alpha Flight, and the other fourteen magazines a month Logan appears in.
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#40 Jun 28 2009 at 4:18 PM Rating: Good
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O HAI, I'm young james t kirk who tries to outrun a flying vehicle by driving my dad's car off of a cliff.


There really is a good reason for that. It's to show that Kirk is really good at hanging from ledges.

:P
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