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"The Outstretched Shadow" debate thread (spoilers!)Follow

#1 Aug 26 2007 at 3:48 AM Rating: Good
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Might be the best to start this thread, see who's ready to join up and get things started?

Threads don't sink fast on this forum so it's around for a while for those that want to join in but haven't read the book yet Smiley: wink

My short impression of the book: didn't like it much. It is extremely repetitive at first, constantly hammering in the fact that the city isn't a good way to live and that the Council are basically fascists. I tend to get that message quick, I definitely do not need to be reminded almost every time Kellen gets in a pensive mood.

It's very stereotypical, the outcasts are the good guys and know how to live with the other races in peace and cooperation while the big city of humans with the "adults" are the bad ones. Kellen just happens to encounter his sister when he leaves the city, then happens to be a knight-mage when they were in trouble later on.

However, I've never cared all that much about originality, not storywise anyway as this is very hard to get completely. Everything's been written before, in some form or another. So that's not a problem for me.

Ultimately it was the repetitiveness and at times the simplicity of it all that ruined it for me.

Anyone else got some first thoughts?
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#2 Aug 26 2007 at 3:01 PM Rating: Good
I was all in all happy w/the book, I think GieG had said in the other thread, the repeativeness is to set the storyline. Normally the rest of the series flows smoother than the first book. Shalkan was quite amusing to me, but I'm a chick so I'm gonna like Unicorns no matter what :P It was a good enough book that I plan on reading the rest of the series. After you've read soooo many fantasy fiction books, you start to see a connection between them all. The really good ones are just able to add a new twist :)
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#3 Aug 27 2007 at 4:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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Zieveraar wrote:

It's very stereotypical, the outcasts are the good guys and know how to live with the other races in peace and cooperation while the big city of humans with the "adults" are the bad ones.

They do explain it why they banned the Wild Magic, being afraid to join the Endarkend. The City is overdoing it, and becoming what they feared.

Zieveraar wrote:

Kellen just happens to encounter his sister when he leaves the city, then happens to be a knight-mage when they were in trouble later on.

I agree, this could have been written a bit better. But most of the times I find it quite boring if it takes 4 chapters for the main characters to find each ohter. Also they did hint on Kellen being a Knight-Mage with the Outlaw hunt.
Zieveraar wrote:

Ultimately it was the repetitiveness and at times the simplicity of it all that ruined it for me.

Like I said, I forgive it, for being the 1st book, and they need to set the story. I agree how the main characters meet could have been worked out a bit better.
Mistress Cami wrote:

Shalkan was quite amusing to me, but I'm a chick so I'm gonna like Unicorns no matter what :P
I found Shalkan very funy most of the time.
Mistress Cami wrote:

It was a good enough book that I plan on reading the rest of the series.
Already started in the 2nd book.

But I really like how the Wild-Magic works, having to pay a price for each spell. Also Kellen's strougle with the Wild Magic in the beginning I enjoyed

Edit: Oh and congratulations on your niece Cami.

Edited, Aug 27th 2007 2:22:40pm by GieG
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#4 Aug 28 2007 at 12:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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GieG wrote:
They do explain it why they banned the Wild Magic, being afraid to join the Endarkend. The City is overdoing it, and becoming what they feared.


It's just done in a rather extreme fashion imo, not leaving a decent person in power in the city. Too black and white.

GieG wrote:
Like I said, I forgive it, for being the 1st book, and they need to set the story. I agree how the main characters meet could have been worked out a bit better


Lately, I just don't have the patience anymore. It's odd really, this might not have stopped me a couple of years ago, but now I'm starting to just think "to **** with it" and find something else.


I do agree that the idea behind the Wild magic is pretty good, you either give in to it and accept how it works, or go bad and be consumed by the demons.
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#5 Aug 28 2007 at 12:23 PM Rating: Good
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Zieveraar wrote:

It's just done in a rather extreme fashion imo, not leaving a decent person in power in the city. Too black and white.


Don't think it's to black and white. The High-Mages really think they are doing the best they can. And for the good of the City.

Zieveraar wrote:

Lately, I just don't have the patience anymore. It's odd really, this might not have stopped me a couple of years ago, but now I'm starting to just think "to **** with it" and find something else.


That is to bad, because I really think the 2nd book has potential to be quite good.
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Mistress Cami wrote:

GieG is awesome. That is all :)
#6 Aug 28 2007 at 12:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Don't think it's to black and white. The High-Mages really think they are doing the best they can. And for the good of the City.


True, and I suppose you can't be too reasonable in a fictional story. There has to be a source of strife somewhere, can't have all things just debated and sorted that way. That would be boring Smiley: lol

Having unreasonable "politicians" or other people in charge of a country or city isn't unheard of naturally, there have been plenty of cases of blind or unreasonable leaders that have led their country or city to ruin throughout history.

I do feel it a bit of a cheap and easy way to just make the leaders blind to everything.


When you finished book 2, could you let me know what you thought of it? (might find it somewhere)

There are some elements in it that I would like to bet on happening. The fall of the city for instance, with Kellen's father dying (after trying to kill Kellen and his sister one more time)...

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#7 Aug 28 2007 at 12:44 PM Rating: Good
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I didn't mind Shalkan. But I found Kellen to be positively boring. The book just never grabbed me at any points. I probably will not read the second one based on the first one.
#8 Aug 28 2007 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
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Zieveraar wrote:

When you finished book 2, could you let me know what you thought of it? (might find it somewhere)

There are some elements in it that I would like to bet on happening. The fall of the city for instance, with Kellen's father dying (after trying to kill Kellen and his sister one more time)...

Will let you know, no problem.

I do think the City will fall, but only in the 3rd book when the war will really start. Also I think Idalia will fall for the Endarkend. Because of the Wild Magic she cast, but already paid for. Something will lead from that I think.
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Mistress Cami wrote:

GieG is awesome. That is all :)
#9 Aug 28 2007 at 12:52 PM Rating: Good
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I agree about Idalia. I don't think it would flow as well if she didn't have some very serious repercussions from using the magic. Like falling to the Endarkened.
#10 Aug 28 2007 at 12:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I do think the City will fall, but only in the 3rd book when the war will really start. Also I think Idalia will fall for the Endarkend. Because of the Wild Magic she cast, but already paid for. Something will lead from that I think.


My thought would be that it falls at the end of book 2, sort of a clifhanger for the third part.

Idalia turning evil would be interesting, making her fight Kellen near the end or so. It could be done easily enough, perhaps she refuses to pay for the magic as this would endanger her lover? On the other hand, so far the writer does seem to stick with keeping everyone in their own category. Good remains good and evil will always get it's come-uppings. So imo Idalia might come close but I think Kellen might save her in the end.
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#11 Aug 28 2007 at 1:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Zieveraar wrote:

My thought would be that it falls at the end of book 2, sort of a clifhanger for the third part.


I like this idea, I'll find out soon enough.

Zieveraar wrote:

Good remains good and evil will always get it's come-uppings. So imo Idalia might come close but I think Kellen might save her in the end.

I really hope they will break that chain, and get some good plot twists.
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Mistress Cami wrote:

GieG is awesome. That is all :)
#12 Aug 28 2007 at 1:36 PM Rating: Good
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Agreed. That was one of the major problems I had with the book. There is no grey area. It's strictly black and white. When people write like that and it stays that way throughout, the book becomes entirely predictable.
#13 Aug 28 2007 at 1:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Brill wrote:
Agreed. That was one of the major problems I had with the book. There is no grey area. It's strictly black and white. When people write like that and it stays that way throughout, the book becomes entirely predictable.


I said it before, I'll forgive it in a 1st book. Characters need to be set. In the following books they need to evolve, and break the chains set by the 1st.

If it stay's this way in the 2nd book, I'll be a bit disapointed
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Mistress Cami wrote:

GieG is awesome. That is all :)
#14 Aug 28 2007 at 6:58 PM Rating: Good
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I just did not get the feeling that they would evolve at all in the next book. I don't know why. It was just the way it was written where everything is so blatantly cut and dry. It leaves very little room for anything other than black and white.
#15 Aug 29 2007 at 2:33 PM Rating: Good
It was a good enough book for me that I'll read the rest of the series. If I don't I'll end up dreaming about it, my mind making up it's own endings lol.
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#16 Aug 29 2007 at 4:50 PM Rating: Good
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Yes me to, well I will not be dreaming about it, but I will read all 3 books. Because they do have potential, despite the 1st book. But then again I havn't read as much fantasy books as you guys.
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Mistress Cami wrote:

GieG is awesome. That is all :)
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