lolvaldan and lolSEFollow

LOLOL. Keep us posted.

*Cough*
30 KS per orb there, buddy :P

That explains so much now about Josm....I joined a ZNM run with some people and him and Valdan was in it, and I said I will not be able to help since you have a thief like Valdan in the group and quit.

So a few moments after 3 people in the group sent me a tell saying he is leaving the group now and to come back, so I did and after maybe 5 mins of us getting a few more people Josm said "I'm sorry I wont be part of a group that helps Octavious get gear" and quit...and I was very confused till this moment.

Josm and Valdan sitting in a tree trying to steal everything!

I stopped here; all the rest is tl;dr.

Dude, you are not just friends with a thief, you're trying to defend his actions. (The whole "well, if you don't want him to steal your ****, just set yourself as quartermaster" line is comedy gold.)

Ergo, you're a **** too. Enjoy your scrutiny by relation.

Josm:

(1) You present yourself very well, and I took the time to read your entire post since it was well written. That matters to some of us, even if it's largely irrelevant to the facts of the thread.
(2) I don't blame you personally for the ODS run, nor did I intend to imply it was your fault. I blame, if anyone, Landrix for that *****-up. But why point blame at all? Someone else lost out far worse than I did; I've still got my Lachesis Orb in my Mog House, after all.

That said, as far as your relationship with Valdan goes, the guy's not only stolen a PCC (which is despicable, and worthy of an instantaneous perma-ban), but made serious attempts at jacking Swift Belts, too. His entire history on our server, so far as we're concerned, is treacherous. And while it may seem cold to you, it does logically follow that his every action and high-dollar AH sale would fall under intense scrutiny, and that his closest associates would bear the shame of his brand.

I don't personally have any problems with you, but Valdan is leprosy incarnate, and defending him here will only draw unwanted spite from the majority of this forum, I'm afraid.

Derail:

Guys, you seriously ought to drop this "tl;dr" and "wall-o-text" crap. (Particularly you, Fynlar, since I know first-hand that you're extremely literate—probably more than most.) Something only rightly qualifies as a "wall-o-text" if it's irrational, poorly punctuated, or full of grammatical and syntactical atrocities. A long post that's beautifully (or at least thoughtfully) written can hardly qualify as a waste of time to at least glance over. Particularly when it's the work of a person whose integrity you're calling into question. They deserve at least a moment's consideration if they take the time to defend themselves reasonably.

Now I'm not trying to defend Josm, because as I said in my post above, I don't know the guy. But the bottom line is that the Internet is largely a text-based communication medium, and this is a forum for a game in which about 95% or more of all the conversation is typed, and the storyline written on-screen. So it's sheer idiocy to get pissy about having to read a couple of paragraphs here—especially if they're sensibly arranged.

</voiceofreason>

Edited, Feb 17th 2009 11:59pm by Angina

Just out of curiosity, as a friend, did you ever address this with him? If one of my friends or linkshell mates behaved in this fashion, I'd have to have a serious "Dude, that's NOT cool" chat with said person.

I'm not intending to judge you, it can be a very difficult position to be in when you've known someone IRL for 15 years and they act like this. But if you say nothing about it and look the other way, yeah, that's basically saying to them you think it's OK.

Edited, Feb 17th 2009 11:06pm by widenorg

You say that so casually. "Yes, Valdan stole a PCC, here's how you stop it from happening." It almost sounds like you feel that anyone who gets ripped off deserves it, because they didn't take the proper precautions to keep it from happening.


Is Valdan in the habit of reporting his exploits to you? You make it sound like there have been other times Valdan has done shady things and he's told you about it, but that this incident isn't one of them. Was stealing the PCC an isolated incident for Valdan, or is it common behavior for him?

Also, if you haven't been informed of any details regarding this, isn't your information just as much hearsay as the post you are quoting?


Oh yes, how irritating. How dare someone try and hold Valdan accountable for his actions. If Valdan hasn't ripped me off, then I shouldn't have any problems playing with him, right? Is that how you feel, and how you think other players should also feel?

Precisely what prompted my tl;dr, in case anyone was wondering.

If your post starts off with something that retarded, I can only presume that the rest of your post is filled with rubbish as well.

You think it's logical for people to constantly be on the defense? I think it's more logical to realize that in any micro- or macrocosm of human society there is some shared sense of trust within a community - be it your neighborhood or your video game server. Individuals join a pick-up group for an activity, and their first instinct usually isn't going to be, 'Let me QM myself incase anyone tries something shady.' Advocating this sort of distrust and suspicion causes the community as a whole to falter. It is not the unknowing individual's fault he/she was scammed. It is unreasonable to expect that he/she should have seen it coming or could have prepared better. That's like telling a rape victim it's all her fault because she chose to go out alone that day.

I'm either being misunderstood or I didn't make myself clear. I'm not saying this is the reason for the event or that anyone is at fault for not following or even that they deserved it, but it's a great way to prevent it. It's wonderful advice that has been given in the thread already. I even follow it myself if I'm doing something with a person I'm not entirely familiar with. Take it as a way of being prepared in case someone is plotting to take your stuff.


There's no need to be on a constant defense. By all means, don't get lead and QM yourself when you feel at ease. All I'm saying is that if you feel that you don't really know someone by experience or at least proxy, you should be prepared for the worst. Gavian wasn't at fault for the situation, Valdan was. It's just that it's wise to be prepared for such an occasion, especially with pickup parties.


What I posted was from my personal experience. If you don't trust me, I understand, but this is what I know to be true.


Yes, irritating for him maybe, but not for me. Do what you want. I won't hold them accountable for it. I just felt it necessary to explain why calling him a coward wasn't correct.


Yes, because it's entirely rational to drive an hour to his university, search for him for hours on end, slap him on the wrist saying "That's a bad [insert name here], you did a bad thing!" and then proceed rub his nose in it. As a friend for so long, I respect that he has his own priorities. If he wants to do something that's detrimental to his reputation, then that's his own business. My friendship with him goes a little deeper than what he does on an online game though, so I don't feel it's correct to end a friendship for that. I respect your opinion and how you would handle something like that. It takes a lot of personal will to do such a thing.


I would've posted on this forum a long time ago if I was going to defend him and support him for what he did directly. I posted in the forums for this:
I was personally targeted for no other reason than association and I felt that I needed to explain how that was faulty logic. That was my main reason for posting, anything else was just clarification on the matter.

Edited, Feb 18th 2009 2:10pm by Josm

The bolded part is something that really stuck out to me in your post. You say that what he does to his own reputation is his own business. What about what he does to his fellow player? Do you care at all about the time spent by others in this game trying to achieve something, only to be robbed by your friend? I will agree with you that if Valdan wants to trash his own reputation, then so be it, but doing so at the expense of honest, legitimate players is something I feel cannot be excused.

And it comes as no surprise to me that some would judge you based on association, even if you don't directly come out and say you approve of his actions. By sitting back and doing nothing, I would tend to assume one of two things. That you either don't see anything wrong with what he's doing, or that you do fault in his actions but simply don't care or don't find it important enough to speak up. The type of behavior your friend has shown is enough to enrage other players, 99% of whom have never been scammed by him personally. I can't even begin to describe absolutely disgusted I would be if I ever found out that one of my "friends" was a greedy thief with seemingly no respect for his fellow player. You, on the other hand, seem to show indifference, if not defense, of the person behind these actions. Eh, it's "his business" after all.

This isn't a complicated issue. It is almost if not completely universally accepted across the server that Valdan is in the wrong here. I haven't seen anyone say "Yes, if you get the opportunity to steal an expensive item, go for it." I find it almost impossible not to pick a side here, and it's pretty clear which side the player base (or at least, those who've heard of his behavior) is on. As someone associated with him, you may unfortunately be put in a difficult position, but in the eyes of some you will be making a choice no matter what you do. You can either choose to join the player base and speak out against what most find to be despicable behavior from your friend, or you can continue to lie back and watch him rob unsuspecting players of their truly earned rewards, while showing no concern for his actions. Though the second choice could, quite understandably IMO, damage your reputation by association if that's the path you choose. To see someone who is supposedly a good and respectful guy sit back and watch this happen is in some ways (though certainly not all) worse than seeing what Valdan is doing himself.

Edited, Feb 19th 2009 4:54am by Susanoh