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JP players are NOT FF godsFollow

#1 Aug 23 2004 at 11:16 AM Rating: Good
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Hey Lakshmi!

I am Vawn, 55 PLD. I wanted to start this thread because something has been bothering me lately. I read comments such as "a jp friend of mine said...", implying that if a jp player does something, then THAT is the way to do it. Has anyone partied with a BAD jp player before? I sure have. In fact the ratio of bad jp players to good jp players seems to be just about the same as it is for the english players. The one exception may be at lower levels, but that is most likely due to that the jp players have been playing longer.

I also get sick of seeing "<English Party><No Thanks>". But I guess if we think we're worse than they are, why would they want to party with us?

Now I am defintly not saying that we are better than they are by any means. All I am saying is there are plenty of english players that can hold their own compared to the jps.

I won't be surprised to see replies telling me that I am dead wrong, and they are superior to us. I just won't understand them...
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#2 Aug 23 2004 at 12:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Hi Vawn,

Seem you around. Used your free taxi service once (thanks again).

As for Japanese players I have had great experience and bad experience (nothing in between).

I think the great experience is definitely due to their long playing time (they are usually rank 9-10). Went to the crawlers nest as whm at 24 (I thought they were going the wrong way). Stayed in the entrance tunnel and killed crawlers. Rockin pt.

I have also had bad experience with solo Japanese players but I think it is due to communication and the poor translator (how do you say pull in Japanese ?......"Fishing" go figure).

I think NA players can and do definitely stand equal to Japanese players when given the same playing time. I think

I do think the Japanese are beeter organized though for EF's and game elements when alliances are needed (have you ever sat thorogh the bi*chin and moaning to get an alliance together? I am sure at 55Pld you have).

I think overall NA players are more creative but that sometimes means more chaotic.

Part of the game I love is the variety of "characters" I randomly get in parties. This is seldom with the Japanese players due to the communication problem (which is unfortunate).

The game is the most fun when the pt has good chemistry talkin, jokin, and generally rockin!
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#3 Aug 23 2004 at 1:30 PM Rating: Decent
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They're not?

>< Just kidding.

Anyway, I haven't had many JP parties... The few that I have, I've found are exceptional. Pretty much what I get with English parties.

Let's see... my second Japanese party, I asked the players, in Japanese, what it means when they say "JP ONLY" and why they ask that. They replied that many Japanese players aren't very good at English, and it makes them nervous when they can't understand what the English PT members are saying. Miscommunication in a PT can be disasterous. Most Japanese players mean no offense by requesting "JP ONLY." There are bolder Japanese players out there that try to PT with anyone, even if they don't know the language.

I just think it's something that we shouldn't get all worked up about. And (English) (Party) (No thanks.) is not meant to be offensive either. I know the "no thanks" sounds haughty or... or patronizing, but in Japanese it's not like that at all. They mean it in the most polite of ways.
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#4 Aug 23 2004 at 8:09 PM Rating: Decent
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I used to have no complaints about Japanese players until recently. They would never refuse an invite from me nor pass me up for invite into their party. I realized this was a luxury for simply being a Tarutaru.

I've now taken a break and decided to level MNK on my Hume. In a week I've probably had one Japanese player in my party out of a good amount of invites.

I've also played with a terrible Japanese player. He came down to Garlaige, I think we were around level 50ish. Galka MNK with fishing gloves and RSE leggings.
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#5 Aug 23 2004 at 9:53 PM Rating: Decent
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I invited a lot of JP players lately to party with me. Ive become quite good qith that evil auto-translator.

I broke the barriers of JP only by mentionning that there were Japanese in the PT allready. They chat we chat, the rest is smashing and bashing and all my party mates use the auto-translator their WS. (one very well done part of the tool, WS and Battle plan, love ya!)

Just dont be affraid to invite and be polite... Never know when that JP is bored out of his mind at 3am LFP for the last 8 hours... who knows?
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#6 Aug 24 2004 at 5:50 AM Rating: Good
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Hmm... It's not so much the fact that people think there aren't ANY bad JP players. It's the fact that the ratio of bad EN players far outnumber it. ^^; Conversely, that's not to say that no EN player is an outstanding one. Yes, there are awesome EN players out there, just like there are JP players.

Personally, I tend to join JP parties a fair bit, being able to converse in the language without looking like an idiot... too often. I have a couple of JP friends, some in my LS. Kaahi is right, alot of times, they are unsure of their own English skill, hence the "JP Only" tags. Once, I was speaking in both languages in PT to translate between the JP and EN members. One of the JP members said something to the effect that she was envious, and that she was trying hard to learn English too. So, yeah, sometimes we tend to get a bit defensive, but sometimes it's unfounded. ^^a

Honestly though, I have been in awesome EN PTs (( my LS static PT for one >.>b )). But seriously... when I search on my WHM38, most of the EN invites are from the Crawler's Nest. Replacement parties are generally something I do not partake in, because on several occasions, I have arrived at a destination only to remain there for about 5 minutes before the PT disbands. This is something you rarely see JP PTs doing. Once a member leaves, the whole PT returns to Jeuno to seek again. When I want to *start* a PT on my WHM, most of the EN seekers are already *at* the Crawler's Nest. Yes, I understand that travelling might be a hassle, but I tend to find other places to go besides Crawler's Train-- er, Nest. Why would I invite someone who wasn't readily available? And the list goes on.

It's just the little things like those that bug me. Thankfully, alot of that is weeded out in the later levels, regardless of JP or EN. But yes, that's my own reasoning/opinion. Feel free to respond if you don't agree. o.Oa
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#7 Aug 27 2004 at 2:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Heh, Jp players have a habit of not using auto translate at all, and just doing their own thing...or maybe that's just the ones I've parties with?
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#8 Aug 27 2004 at 4:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
. They replied that many Japanese players aren't very good at English, and it makes them nervous when they can't understand what the English PT members are saying. Miscommunication in a PT can be disasterous. Most Japanese players mean no offense by requesting "JP ONLY." There are bolder Japanese players out there that try to PT with anyone, even if they don't know the language.



This is really quite true.
Several friends in my linkshell often play using the Japanese client, so that they can party with Japanese friends (and other japanese players they have not yet met) and converse natively.

These friends of mine are not Japanese, but they do have some fluency, enough to make good use of the JP client.

Just the other night, one of these friends was telling us in LS chat about the arduous conversation he had just had with one of his JP party members (arduous only because my friend's Japanese was limited enough to make the finer points of this conversation a little difficult to expres).

He was trying to explain to the JP party member that it was perfectly fine that the member didn't speak English, because my friend was happy to translate between the JP members and the the English members.
Evidently, he had a hard time properly explaing that it was OK.


However, another revalation(to him) that came out of the experience was the fact that when many Japanese players say "no thanks" to english-speaking parties, it is because they don't feel they have the ability to communicate effectively enough to make it worthwhile for either side.

My own conversations with Japanese friends have supported this.
Now, my japanese friends happen to have very good English skills, but they agree that not everyone does, and by and large, the general expression of unwillingness to party with englis speakers is not a form of elitism, but rather self-consciousness.


Now, having said that,
yes, I will also acknowledge the fact that there are Japanese players who do hold the general opinion that "north american players are bad players, lets not interact with them".

In the same vein, there are north american players who vociferously insist that "japanese players arent 'all that', and people should wise up and stop licking their toes because they're all just a bunch of elitest bastards"
(I hasten to add that with this comment I am not taking aim at anyone in this thread, this is an overgeneralized extreme example, so please Vawn, don't think that I have pointed this at you specifically).


The truth as I see it is simply that there are probably just as many fine japanese players as there are american ones, as well as just as many stupid ones.


I believe the reason that some people hold japanese players in such esteem is because of their particular experiences in japanese parties that were extremely efficient and satisfying, and where they learned a great deal from their partymembers.

There is some justification for the feeling that japanese players (some, not all) are more skilled players; this has to do with the fact that many of them have been playing the game longer than we have, and have really ironed out their skills and understanding of how to make it work well.

The caveat to this is the fact that there are brand new japanese players coming into the game every day, just as there are brand new north american, and soon, european, players too.

I agree that "just because someone says they heard it from a japanese player, therefore it must be treated as gospel" is inapropriate.
But much of the credibility must lie on the person delivering the news.
Some people will take it as gospel because it has the magic word "japanese" attached.
Others who may be more discerning, will be willing to reserve judgement either way until they can find further support of the idea in question.

Apart from having been playing the game longer, we must credit the japanese players for having been maintaining informative sources for longer as well.
I fully appreciate the resources available here at Allakhazam, but that does not diminish the value I have found in other japanese online resources, which often do have more complete information.


Ultimately, I think that it is neither good to idolize japanese players indiscriminately, nor to lambast them reactionarily because you're sick of hearing about people idolizing them.

We are all people, regardless of the language we speak.
Each one of us is capable of feeling the same joys and angers, loves and pains, stresses and pleasures; and each one of us is capable of being a compassionate, respectful and generous person, or an ignorant, selfish and mean person.
Because of that, I do my best to give everyone the same chances, and try to treat them with the same manner.
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