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#1327 May 24 2018 at 4:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Yeah, when the National Review can admit that China's loans look sketchy, I'm not going to waste a bunch of time debating Gbaji on it.

In the meanwhile, does anyone want to buy a North Korea "Supreme Leader" peace summit commemorative coin? Never used, I can promise you.


You forgot to make it "that I can tell you" for the full Trump effect.
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#1328 May 24 2018 at 4:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
Seen on Twitter wrote:
Fun fact: “racist” is not a self-imposed title. You do not get to decide if you are racist or not racist. Much like “annoying” - it’s a description of other peoples’ experience of you, not your image of yourself.


Wait a second there, are you telling me that I cannot self-identify?

Edited, May 24th 2018 6:59pm by angrymnk
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#1329 May 24 2018 at 5:09 PM Rating: Good
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angrymnk wrote:
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
Seen on Twitter wrote:
Fun fact: “racist” is not a self-imposed title. You do not get to decide if you are racist or not racist. Much like “annoying” - it’s a description of other peoples’ experience of you, not your image of yourself.


Wait a second there, are you telling me that I cannot self-identify?

Edited, May 24th 2018 6:59pm by angrymnk


God, you're annoying!
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#1330 May 24 2018 at 7:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Like a middle school romance, Trump backed out of the peace summit this morning because they worried that North Korea was going to cancel and Trump wanted to save his ego by being the guy to cancel first.
Washington Post wrote:
Trump suspected that Chinese President Xi Jinping may have had something to do with Kim’s turnabout, musing this week about their meeting this month.

“When Kim Jong Un had the meeting with President Xi, in China, the second meeting . . . I think there was a little change in attitude from Kim Jong Un,” Trump said Tuesday, with Moon at his side. “I don’t like that. I don’t like it from the standpoint of China. Now, I hope that’s not true, because I have a great relationship with President Xi. He’s a friend of mine. He likes me. I like him.”

Boy, that China sure is helping us with North Korea in exchange for eliminating tariffs! What a deal maker!

Edited, May 24th 2018 8:59pm by Jophiel
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#1331 May 24 2018 at 8:34 PM Rating: Good
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Whoever got Bolton hired is the real winner here.
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#1332 May 25 2018 at 5:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
Seen on Twitter wrote:
Fun fact: “racist” is not a self-imposed title. You do not get to decide if you are racist or not racist. Much like “annoying” - it’s a description of other peoples’ experience of you, not your image of yourself.


Wait a second there, are you telling me that I cannot self-identify?

Edited, May 24th 2018 6:59pm by angrymnk


God, you're annoying!


No I am not. But you are racist*.

^^;

( you may want to rethink your definition )

Edited, May 25th 2018 7:34am by angrymnk
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#1333 May 25 2018 at 7:28 AM Rating: Good
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I am racist. Against you. Also, you may notice that I saw it on twitter, never did I claim it as my definition. So you are annoying, and an unobservant lump, too! Smiley: smile
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#1334 May 25 2018 at 7:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
I am racist. Against you. Also, you may notice that I saw it on twitter, never did I claim it as my definition. So you are annoying, and an unobservant lump, too! Smiley: smile


I am supposed to follow twitter now? When was the constitution amended thusly?
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#1335 May 25 2018 at 7:56 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
45 wrote:
"He likes me. I like him.”
I see someone learned foreign policy from a giant purple dinosaur.
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#1336 May 25 2018 at 8:29 AM Rating: Good
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angrymnk wrote:
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
I am racist. Against you. Also, you may notice that I saw it on twitter, never did I claim it as my definition. So you are annoying, and an unobservant lump, too! Smiley: smile


I am supposed to follow twitter now? When was the constitution amended thusly?


You don't have to follow twitter, my quote said "Seen on Twitter" Stop proving my point!
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#1337 May 25 2018 at 8:30 AM Rating: Good
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Seen on Twitter wrote:
Fun fact: “racist” is not a self-imposed title. You do not get to decide if you are racist or not racist. Much like “annoying” - it’s a description of other peoples’ experience of you, not your image of yourself.


Seen on Twitter!
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#1338 May 25 2018 at 1:15 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Like a middle school romance, backed out of the peace summit this morning because they worried that North Korea was going to cancel
Looks like he's teasing to maybe possibly kind of sort of considering to make the summit afterall.
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#1339 May 25 2018 at 1:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well, he DID already have all those coins made.
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#1340 May 29 2018 at 10:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
I am racist. Against you. Also, you may notice that I saw it on twitter, never did I claim it as my definition. So you are annoying, and an unobservant lump, too! Smiley: smile


I am supposed to follow twitter now? When was the constitution amended thusly?


You don't have to follow twitter, my quote said "Seen on Twitter" Stop proving my point!
TBH this is as close as I can get to following twitter. I don't see how you people manage to stay there.
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#1341 May 29 2018 at 1:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
Seen on Twitter wrote:
Fun fact: “racist” is not a self-imposed title. You do not get to decide if you are racist or not racist. Much like “annoying” - it’s a description of other peoples’ experience of you, not your image of yourself.
Also seen on twitter and 100% related to this comment: Rosanne Barr finding a way to get her successful show canceled on ABC.
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#1342 May 29 2018 at 2:25 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
Seen on Twitter wrote:
Fun fact: “racist” is not a self-imposed title. You do not get to decide if you are racist or not racist. Much like “annoying” - it’s a description of other peoples’ experience of you, not your image of yourself.
Also seen on twitter and 100% related to this comment: Rosanne Barr finding a way to get her successful show canceled on ABC.

One good thing about bigots, they're easy to identify because they don't know when to shut the fu=-k up.
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#1343 May 29 2018 at 2:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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I imagine she's probably well enough off she doesn't have to.
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#1344 May 29 2018 at 3:49 PM Rating: Good
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And where is gbaji, jumping to her defense, you ask? And 3, 2...GO!

Also, Pic Relevant: https://xkcd.com/1357/

Screenshot

Edited, May 29th 2018 3:10pm by stupidmonkey
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#1345 May 29 2018 at 5:51 PM Rating: Good
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
And where is gbaji, jumping to her defense, you ask? And 3, 2...GO!
There's nothing racist about refering to the Muslim Brotherhood. And i think its' important to know which Plant of the Apes movie was being referred to. If its Charlton Heston's movies, then maybe she was just saying VJ's face was hairy...
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#1346 May 29 2018 at 6:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hey, there's humans in Planet of the Apes! Maybe she meant VJ was Mark Wahlberg's kid!

They should replace Roseanne Barr with Rosie O'Donnell. You could still call it Roseanne and plus you can drive "Becky" meta-humor into the ground.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#1347 May 29 2018 at 6:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
And where is gbaji, jumping to her defense, you ask? And 3, 2...GO!
There's nothing racist about refering to the Muslim Brotherhood. And i think its' important to know which Plant of the Apes movie was being referred to. If its Charlton Heston's movies, then maybe she was just saying VJ's face was hairy...


Or, maybe, she was referring to the social structure in the film, which was very much racially aligned, and had a strong caste system, and in which adherence to dogma about the "truth" of the world was so strongly enforced that those who might provide evidence to challenge it were literally killed or lobotomized to keep the masses from questioning said dogma, and even those with scientific knowledge that refuted said dogma participated in the deception so as not to rock the social boat. Not at all a parallel to the identity driven social ideology of the left, and the great lengths they go to in order to prevent anyone from being exposed to information which might make them question that ideology. Nope, not at all! Let's ignore that and just leap to the fact that it's a planet of the Apes, and that's kinda like calling someone a monkey, which as we all know is what racists all call black people, and Valerie Jerrett is black, so it must be entirely about race! Gotta keep that racially driven ideology going, right?

And no, this is not me defending her one bit. Roseanne has long been an obnoxious angry comic who goes out of her way to be offensive in her comedy. It's not like this is new for her, and I've never been a fan of her or her "art". I do find it interesting how the willingness to accept her comedy has changed based on the perceived "direction" of the politics behind it. When her comedy mostly focused on offensive attacks on social institutions which conservatives might care about, she was fine. She was hurting those evil conservatives and making fun of them, so let's give her a pass. She starts spouting some conservative seeming stuff, and goes after a prominent person on the left with the same form of offensive comedy? Burn her!!!

It was a dumb thing for her to do though. She should have used a source less likely to be associated with race. Like maybe 1984, or Brave New World. I can't say what was going through her mind though, so whatever. It's entirely possible, given the rumors of folks deciding to jump off the show anyway, that she decided to burn it to the ground purposely rather than allow it to fail on its own. Dunno. Don't really care that much either.
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#1348 May 29 2018 at 7:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
I do find it interesting how the willingness to accept her comedy has changed based on the perceived "direction" of the politics behind it. When her comedy mostly focused on offensive attacks on social institutions which conservatives might care about, she was fine. She was hurting those evil conservatives and making fun of them, so let's give her a pass.

When was this?

Anyway, her show wasn't canceled because of the show's content. It was canceled because she was a racist kook on Twitter. Which isn't something liberals are immune to doing, for example Kathy Griffin's photo of her holding up Trump's bloodied head.
Rolling Stone wrote:
Griffin is, however, guilty of taking part in a photo shoot that involved her holding up a bloody replica of President Trump's head, a stunt that cost her numerous commercial endorsements, her job at CNN as one half of the New Year's Eve broadcast with former friend Anderson Cooper and other gigs as venues around the country quietly canceled her shows.

In the months that followed, Griffin received safety tips from the FBI regarding hate mail and had the Secret Service investigate her actions to determine whether or not she was an actual threat to the president. Many, if not most, of her celebrity friends began to avoid her at all costs.

It could just be that being a public dumbfuck has consequences no matter what your political stripe is and being "a comedian" isn't an effective shield.

That said, I'm proud of you for finding an even stupider defense/explanation for the "Planet of the Apes" remark than even I came up with in jest. You're a living example of Poe's Law in action, my friend Smiley: laugh

Edited, May 29th 2018 8:16pm by Jophiel
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#1349 May 29 2018 at 8:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
I do find it interesting how the willingness to accept her comedy has changed based on the perceived "direction" of the politics behind it. When her comedy mostly focused on offensive attacks on social institutions which conservatives might care about, she was fine. She was hurting those evil conservatives and making fun of them, so let's give her a pass.

When was this?


Most of her career has included comedy and public statements (and actions) which one could more easily place as "left leaning" (although to be fair, mostly was just "offensive"). But there was the time she screeched and grabbed her crotch while singing the national anthem. And the time she posted Zimmerman's parents home address cause "no one should be able to hide". And... well... a list of somewhat hateful and obnoxious stuff.

I'm sure the fact that she ran as a green party candidate, supported liberal causes and politicians, and otherwise toed the stock entertainment media liberal line didn't hurt at all in protecting her from fallout over these things. Sure. There was fallout, but it boiled over quickly and in several cases she just used the hype to go on to sell whatever new venture she was doing.

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Anyway, her show wasn't canceled because of the show's content. It was canceled because she was a racist kook on Twitter.


Uh. From what I've read, there were several cast members planning on quitting. Hard to tell the exact reason, but it sure seemed like a lot of this was them not wanting to be on a show with a main lead who made a point of playing a pro-Trump conservative character. I suspect a ton of people who signed on to the project assumed it would be the same old Roseanne from back in the day, and it would all be a great big liberal fun fest or something. And then found out it wasn't. And then did everything they could to get out of it.

The tweet was a great excuse for the network to cancel the show. Yeah, I'm putting on my Smiley: tinfoilhat a bit here, but my impression is that the network got a lot of backlash for the conservative nature of the language on the show, but it was doing well in ratings, so they couldn't just cancel it without it being too obvious. And then this comes along. How convenient.

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Which isn't something liberals are immune to doing, for example Kathy Griffin's photo of her holding up Trump's bloodied head.


Yeah. There's a pretty large difference between literally depicting yourself as though you had just beheaded a political figure, and making a comment that if you squinted just right could be made out to be racially offensive. If the latter was really the criteria for having a show cancelled there would be a ton of shows cancelled. There's a lot of racially directed comedy out there. But as long as the comedy is targeted at the right race (ie: white people), and/or the person doing the comedy is a person of color, and/or the person doing the comedy is perceived as being "on the left" (and is, preferably, making a joke about a person on the right), it's all good.

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It could just be that being a public dumbfuck has consequences no matter what your political stripe is and being "a comedian" isn't an effective shield.


Again, despite the two not actually being equal in weight, let's see if, in three months, Roseanne retracts her apology about her tweet about VJ, and then goes on tour promoting the "joke" she made. You know, like what Kathy Griffin did starting in August of 2017. I don't seem to recall anyone being outraged that she was making money off the offensive (and threatening) "joke" she made. Nor did she seem to have any difficulty finding financial backing for said endeavor. Nor did she find it difficult to sell tickets.

I suppose it's possible that Roseanne's going to try the same thing here. And maybe in 3 months, she'll be touring the hick counties promoting herself as the "woman who took on Valerie Jerrett and got fired for it". Who knows? I suppose that in the entertainment industry, anything is possible.

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That said, I'm proud of you for finding an even stupider defense/explanation for the "Planet of the Apes" remark than even I came up with in jest.


I don't think it's stupid at all. If she had used any other example of a popularly known film/book highlighting a distopian/authoritarian future in her tweet, would you have failed to get that it was about the screwed up social structure and that she was talking about VJ's political ideology (and comparing the two)? There is nothing at all in Planet of the Apes that you could correlate directly to human racial biases or stereotypes. You can only go there if you actually ignore the entire point of the work, and the social structure it portrays, and the inherent problems within that social structure (which, btw *are* intended as a warning against similar human social structures), and instead break right through that fourth wall and interpret it solely in the context of "OMG! The title mentions Apes, so it must be about calling her a monkey or something!"

Talk about missing the forest for the darn trees there. Again, I'm not precluding the possibility that she actually did just intend to call VJ an ape, so as to make the racially offensive remark, knowing it would create outrage. It's totally possible for that to be the case (and monumentally stupid as well). It's well within the pattern of her past offensive comments for this to be the case.

But in the absence of her actually coming out and saying "I intended to call her an ape because I think that black people aren't really fully humans and are more likely less advanced primates", I'm going to go with the assumption that a woman who got the freaking backing of the black caucus when she ran maybe really was just making a comment about VJ's social ideology and comparing it to the ideology in the film. Because... you know, it actually fits.

Heck. VJ's ideology actually fits Animal Farm even better. But then that would likely get a similar backlash, so I guess that's a no-go too.

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You're a living example of Poe's Law in action, my friend Smiley: laugh


Er? I think this is the second time you've made that assertion. You're just as wrong about what Poe's law actually is, and how it's applied, this time as you were then.

Poe's law is about mistaking satire of a position for a serious statement in support of said position, or failing to make clear that a statement about a position is supposed to be satire, leading to said mistake. Either way. Neither of which applies here.

I suppose we could invent our own internet law pertaining to whether someone chooses to interpret someone else's post in the most offensive or least offensive manner. But that would be a different thing. And honestly, neither side is any more "right" about their choice. Um... But obviously, I tend to fall on the side of giving people the benefit of the doubt that they didn't intend to make a racist comment, and are probably not actually racist, even if something they say could be interpreted that way. Call it the Howard Cosell defense if you want.

I get that in today's politically correct world, most people do tend to go out of their way to find the most offensive interpretation of what someone said and then assume that's exactly how it was meant. Sometimes (quite often), to the complete bewilderment of the person who made the statement. And yeah, I also get that there is a need to be vigilant in watching out for overtly racial language, since the alternative (being blind to it) can also have negative social consequences. I just happen to think we've become way too sensitive on this issue, and not terribly consistent in its application. And we're seeing racial language in things that are intended otherwise.

And in this particular case, it's a convenient sidestep of the reference to the content of the film and the social "rules" therein, and any discussion of whether VJ's ideology does actually lean in that direction, which I suspect at least somewhat drives the issue. I immediately got the social structure connection. But then, I'm more familiar with a decade or so of conservative discussions about her and her ideology than most. I can see how someone who only knows her skin color and that she was a member of Obama's cabinet might only see that aspect of her. I don't know any conservatives who's opposition of VJ is "she's black". I know a heck of a lot of conservatives who will talk at length about her ideology, her methodologies, the things she supports, what she believes in, and yes, an analysis of what kind of social structure we might have if the kinds of ideology she espouses were to come to be. So yeah, I get the Planet of the Apes reference. Completely. And the only reason I'd make any association with race is because I'm aware that folks on the Left will not see the social structure connection and only see "ape=>monkey=>black=>offensive racial comment".

And, just like clockwork, that's exactly what happened.
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#1350 May 29 2018 at 9:33 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
I don't think it's stupid at all. If she had used any other example of a popularly known film/book highlighting a distopian/authoritarian future in her tweet, would you have failed to get that it was about the screwed up social structure and that she was talking about VJ's political ideology (and comparing the two)?
Right. Like if I write a tweet saying "if Wall Street and Downfall had a baby=Trump" and you screamed I was saying he's a Nazi I get to claim that I just meant he's for a strong military?
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#1351 May 29 2018 at 10:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Uh. From what I've read, there were several cast members planning on quitting. Hard to tell the exact reason, but it sure seemed like a lot of this was them not wanting to be on a show with a main lead who made a point of playing a pro-Trump conservative character.

LOL -- God forbid you not play the Conservative Martyr Snowflake card but they were quitting because of her behavior today. The show was No. 3 in the ratings and the highest rated comedy on TV. Sure, sport... ABC was just dying to find a reason to cancel Smiley: laugh
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Poe's law is about mistaking satire of a position for a serious statement in support of said position, or failing to make clear that a statement about a position is supposed to be satire, leading to said mistake.

Smiley: laugh You just don't get it. That's what makes it perfect.
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