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Britain votes to leave the EUFollow

#27 Jun 25 2016 at 11:35 PM Rating: Good
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The Brits have eyed their millennia of sovereignty and determined that some faceless, unelected bureaucrat in Brussels doesn't much care about community, self determination, and democracy. Thus they exercised their reknowned resolve and effected what can be seen as a second Magna Carta. Well done, UK! As for all those dire warnings of calamity and doom, the London markets ended up for the week, demonstrating that fearmongering does not faze your ordinary Englishman.
#28 Jun 26 2016 at 4:19 AM Rating: Default
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Good points Kavekkk and I indeed mis-timed the end of colonization. Even in the mid 20th Century too, British still had a hand on India. But then just kicked it into Pakistan and Bangladesh and India based on race/religion or whatever, which was dumb and problematic to this day.. Is there anything England hasn't ****** up? Balfour Declaration? Just terrible all around. I'm almost sympathetic to Irgun.

But. Falklands. Clinging. Come on. Yes, still UK still clings to their one ****** island in Argentina as a measure of their former imperialism. As pathetic as an old person struggling to find their dentures. I guess if the Falklands fails, England will fight Scotland over the Hebrides, with their huge military, or something. Or otherwise there's an easier thing: "I've got a few carriers and nuclear weapons, and still want to be a real power! How? Oh thanks US, I'll join the Iraq War! UH DURRR"

Also: Brexit was more the result of angry poor people ****** over by the elite than "modern English nationalism". But anyway. The UK is not a superpower. Hopefully the EU will punish them enough for them to realize this.

[I mean obviously the UK could indeed be a superpower, since it still has a decent fleet and nukes, and (formerly at least prior to Brexit) economic influence.. It's not though because it has zero balls and is a virtual client state of the US, making zero decisions of it's own. What's the last strife war the UK heroically entered that the US hadn't entered first? The last noble and/or independent war decision the UK has made that went against the US? LOL. Not to even mention non-war leadership. The UK is the **** beads of America. Just another client state. Even more so after Brexit. Look forward to your British soldiers again dying due to sole US decisions that make awful and unnecessary war. Thus you must join and die. Pussies. UK is a *****. UK nuclear carriers and weapons are pussies.]

Edited, Jun 26th 2016 6:26am by Palpitus1
#29 Jun 26 2016 at 5:25 AM Rating: Good
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Modern English nationalism is the manifestation of that. Things suck for us -> must be too many immigrants, ra ra ra up England -> how do we get the immigrants to stop? -> Take charge of our borders again -> Brexit.

No-one holds up the Falklands as evidence we're still an Empire, though, do they? You ever heard someone say, 'oh, we still have the Falklands, rule Britannia'? No. There's just no reason to give it to Argentina, given that they have no historical basis for their claim, the island had no indigenous 'Argentine' (inverted commas, Argentina spent its formative years ethnically cleansing its way across the continent) population, the people that live there now don't want to move or become Argentinian, and Argentina tried and failed to seize it by military force.

Hey, though, you know who else still has a bunch of small territories off South America? Think, what country would make you look the most retarded. Mull it over. Have you got it? Yep, that's right, it's the Netherlands. You know, that country you listed as 'not making hay' over their past glories? Oops. Look at those Dutchmen, clinging to their empire. The anachronistic twats. It's pitiful, really, isn't it? Who else do we have here... oh, right, the Spanish? Melilla and Ceuta, little chunks of Morocco. At least you're safe with Mongolia, eh?

Accept it, you simply aren't educated enough to have any opinions. Sorry whatever **** country you were raised in never taught you to think or to research or justify your opinions.
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#30 Jun 26 2016 at 6:29 AM Rating: Default
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Kavekkk wrote:
Modern English nationalism is the manifestation of that. Things suck for us -> must be too many immigrants, ra ra ra up England -> how do we get the immigrants to stop? -> Take charge of our borders again -> Brexit.


I missed the experiment that makes "->" a new proof of anything. Lemme try though: You-> moron. Is that right?

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No-one holds up the Falklands as evidence we're still an Empire, though, do they?


Uh, GBR went to war over that rather random island, didn't they?

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You ever heard someone say, 'oh, we still have the Falklands, rule Britannia'? No. There's just no reason to give it to Argentina, given that they have no historical basis for their claim, the island had no indigenous 'Argentine' (inverted commas, Argentina spent its formative years ethnically cleansing its way across the continent) population, the people that live there now don't want to move or become Argentinian, and Argentina tried and failed to seize it by military force.


What? No, until now I've indeed never heard such gibberish. inverted commas and ethnic cleansing...jesus christ

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Hey, though, you know who else still has a bunch of small territories off South America? Think, what country would make you look the most retarded. Mull it over. Have you got it? Yep, that's right, it's the Netherlands. You know, that country you listed as 'not making hay' over their past glories? Oops. Look at those Dutchmen, clinging to their empire. The anachronistic twats. It's pitiful, really, isn't it? Who else do we have here... oh, right, the Spanish? Melilla and Ceuta, little chunks of Morocco. At least you're safe with Mongolia, eh?


The **** are you talking about? The Dutch control the Spanish Melilla island or something? If I'd written such a terrible paragraph I'd be honor-bound to slap myself in the face.And even if I'd written such a bad thing as being "retarded" I'd have to apply it more to your ridiculous post than me. What the fuck. I mean..oops, look at your example of Dutchmen, yet not linking to anything. wow. And I thought I was a bad poster, often typing drunk. You make me look good.

"Did the hollow Earth lizardmen cause global warming?!! Check it out here!! [no link provided]" Ooops no link oop s oops durrrrrr

Quote:
Accept it, you simply aren't educated enough to have any opinions. Sorry whatever **** country you were raised in never taught you to think or to research or justify your opinions.


Heh okay. Watch out for those inverted commas!


fixing quotes

Edited, Jun 26th 2016 8:33am by Palpitus1
#31 Jun 26 2016 at 6:51 AM Rating: Good
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That's not how you use quote tags.

Quote:
Uh, GBR went to war over that random rather random island, didn't they?


GBR? No-one calls it that. The UK was attacked and defended itself, war wasn't declared by either side. What relevance does that have to what I said? How does defending a territory amount to a claim of imperial grandeur? It just doesn't, does it?

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The **** are you talking about? The Dutch control the Spanish Melilla island or something? If I'd written such a terrible paragraph I'd be honor-bound to slap myself in the face.And even if I'd written such a bad thing as being "retarded" I'd have to apply it more to your ridiculous post than me. What the ****. I mean..oops, look at your example of Dutchmen, yet not linking to anything. wow. And I thought I was a bad poster, often typing drunk. You make me look good.


Melilla isn't an island, you ******* simpleton. And I think you'll find that the Spanish and Dutch possessions I'm referring are clearly separated in the paragraph you've taken umbrage with. "Who else... The Spanish?" Even if you're completely ignorant of geography, as you apparently are, you can't mix up Spain and the Netherlands unless you make a real effort.

If you can't search, here you are. Here. There. Click the blue shiny thing. It'll give you the information you want. Dutch colonies in South America. Spain, the other, separate country we were talking about has colonies in Melilla and Ceuta, which are different, separate places attached to the African mainland. They are not islands. Are you following this?

See? You were wrong, again, just like you were wrong about decolonisation. You don't know history, you don't know geography, you don't know international politics. Why are you talking about them?
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#32 Jun 26 2016 at 8:28 AM Rating: Good
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Huh, the Dutch SA islands use the USD. Learn something new everyday.
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#33 Jun 26 2016 at 3:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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A bit of Brexit news I found interesting though I can't speak for the accuracy of the mechanics:
Political Wire wrote:
The British referendum which delivered a democratic mandate for exiting the European Union sent shock waves throughout the world.

But Prime Minister David Cameron made a very clever political move which still could derail the entire effort.

Despite last week’s vote, article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty — which outlines the procedure for leaving the European Union — has not actually been triggered yet. And with Cameron’s sudden resignation the morning after the vote, it’s not clear when it will be.

By announcing he would step down, Cameron quietly handed the responsibility to actually trigger Article 50 over to his successor.

A Guardian reader summarizes the predicament well:

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: Will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?
Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?
Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-manoeuvred and check-mated.
If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over – Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession … broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.


The possible ramifications of exiting the European Union are becoming much clearer to U.K. voters since the vote: market turmoil, recession, Scottish independence, Irish unification, among others.
David Cameron has now forced the leaders of the Brexit campaign to take ownership of their victory. It’s quite a parting gift.


Edited, Jun 26th 2016 4:51pm by Jophiel
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#34 Jun 26 2016 at 4:56 PM Rating: Decent
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That's pretty much on the money, yep. He never seriously wanted Brexit, he wanted to be PM. The best route from him now is to carry on with his leadership bid, then find a way to wriggle out of leaving the EU (parliament refusal, second referendum, general election) that doesn't look a complete personal betrayal of the Brexiters on his part though that is exactly what it will be.

The problem is Britain is massively reliant on the European Economic Area for most of our trade. We can't really, realistically, leave, without completely crippling ourselves. The EEA is based on no tariffs and common regulations between countries (hence the infamous "ban on straight bananas" type stories the British right-wing press love). To be apart of it, the bare minimum Britain needs to do is no tariffs and abide by the regulations. As we do now. So in leaving the EU, if we want to stay in the EEA we have to keep the regulations but we stop having any say in making them. That's problem no. 1. Problem no.2 is, the EU has no particular need to let us in the EEA without strings attached - they will require we pay to be a member and may demand we retain free movement of people to some extent, basically meaning we still have to abide by all the EU rules, but, as stated, get no say in making them. This is the position Norway is in. UK would probably do better as we're a bigger country, but then again, maybe not. We can't have our cake and eat it, and whatever happens we'll lose out relative to the position we're in now.

Totem: Those "English" financiers are the most international workforce in the world, no one working in finance in London voted to leave the EU, and it took the promise of £250 billion QE to steady the markets. Those "Brussels Bureaucrats" with their straight bananas decide common regulations for all member states and we'll be dancing to their tune long after this is all over, because they function is to make possible the core purpose of the EU: free trade and competition.
#35 Jun 26 2016 at 7:39 PM Rating: Default
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Didn't read anything, but just bought tickets to London about a week and a half ago. Need to do some research for my trip, but apparently the number one Google search in Britain AFTER the decision is "what is the EU?". Not a very supportive fact for the US/UK parallel argument from the right.
#36 Jun 26 2016 at 8:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Just wait until the morning after election day when it's "Who is Donald Trump?"
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#37 Jun 26 2016 at 8:49 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Just wait until the morning after election day when it's "Who is Donald Trump?"


"What is Benghazi?"
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#38 Jun 26 2016 at 9:46 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Just wait until the morning after election day when it's "Who is Donald Trump?"


"Who is Benghazi?"

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#39 Jun 26 2016 at 10:13 PM Rating: Good
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Timelordwho wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Just wait until the morning after election day when it's "Who is Donald Trump?"


"Who is Benghazi?"


https://twitter.com/Gayhooters
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#40 Jun 26 2016 at 10:14 PM Rating: Good
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Hey, did the powers that be finally decide to unblock the word "gay"? Or only for pride week?

Edit: Nope. Maybe it was the capitalization? Gay. gAy. GAY.

GAYGAYGAYGAYGAY

Edited, Jun 26th 2016 11:17pm by Demea
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#41 Jun 26 2016 at 10:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ah, it doesn't hit the filter if it's part of a larger continuous word. That's so gaygay.
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#42 Jun 27 2016 at 7:33 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Just wait until the morning after election day when it's "Who is Donald Trump?"
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#43 Jun 27 2016 at 3:06 PM Rating: Decent
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It's like wiping your **** with a shotgun.

It's fiscal suicide. All of the companies in the UK will still have to follow EU regulations if they want to sell their products and services outside of the UK, which they're already accustomed to doing so there's no regulatory wins that will actually be realized. Immigration will still happen because the UK needs workers the same as the US needs Mexicans. The cost of EU membership is mostly returned to the UK in various ways.

Separation from the UK provides no tangible benefits and comes with a whole lot of baggage and foreign policy fallout. Stupid stupid stupid. Good luck with that.
#44 Jun 27 2016 at 4:20 PM Rating: Good
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I disagree with you concerning the core reason the EU exists. Originally, it was called the European Coal and Steel Community and formed to smooth the coal and steel trade between a small number of European countries and Britain. It morphed into the bureaucratic leviathan it is today, wherein its' sole purpose is to gain its' own increase. As such, it is not a teachable entity, one which learns lessons from occurrences of democratic upheaval. It is in many respects, a mindless, ever growing creature that seeks to place the imprint of control over anything and everything it can. Take immigration, for example. It serves Germany well to have unskilled labor working cheaply in its' factories to better increase the bottom line, but when the EU demands that all members take in a significant number of Middle Easterners (also unvetted, I'd add) who have shown tremendous resistance to integrating themselves into the culture and community of their host country, it unravels the social fabric of the neighborhoods and the factory floor.

In short, the EU exists to exist. While the subsequent goals and aims of the organization after the coal and steel agreements may have been to prevent another outbreak of world war, the result has been mixed. Yes, seventy years have passed since the [red[last[/red] great conflict, but in the process it has undermined the constitutions and charters of its' democratic members. And there are very likely another six countries who may follow suit after watching Britain.

A supranational government is by its' very nature a sluggish beast. The rules and regulations it creates is by design something which entangles and snarls the process of self determination. Why? Because the prevalent thinking is that individual countries cannot be trusted to make their own decisions in a manner which allows them to comport themselves independently of others. That works until the people on the receiving end don't like the result.

We are seeing a similar situation here in the US. While I am no Trump fan or supporter, it is easy to see why there is a significant portion of people who like what they hear from him. The same message resonates for the same reasons: The body politic no longer listens to what we have to say and instead tells us what to think while it grows and gathers control and power. So the only course of action except to capitulate is to take hold of the voting lever and vote for themselves.

Edited, Jun 27th 2016 6:23pm by Totem
#45 Jun 27 2016 at 4:27 PM Rating: Good
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As for the calamity and ruin that is predicted by the Remainers and cosmopolitans, nothing will really change in terms of the economy. Nations will continue to trade, diplomacy will continue to occur, and the stock market will continue to rise and fall, just as if Great Britain had never left. The fearmongering of the elites will get them nowhere and life will go on.
#46 Jun 27 2016 at 5:12 PM Rating: Good
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Totem wrote:
The fearmongering of the elites will get them nowhere

It will get them re-elected, published, or invited to appear on 24/7 cable news. In some cases, it even gets you a movie, book deals, and lucrative government cheese!
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#47 Jun 27 2016 at 5:57 PM Rating: Good
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It could even take them all the way to the Republican nominee.
#48 Jun 27 2016 at 9:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Political Wire wrote:


A Guardian reader summarizes the predicament well:

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: Will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?
Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?
Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-manoeuvred and check-mated.
If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over – Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession … broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.


If you subscribe to a theory by a random reader of a newspaper, sure. This is only a predicament if you assume two things:

1. The results of invoking article 50 are actually as dire as claimed here.

2. Boris Johnson knows these dire things will happen but ran on doing them anyway.

Which frankly doesn't make a whole lot of sense. What makes far more sense is that Johnson believes that leaving the EU will be better for the UK than staying, and that's why he made it a central plank to push for. Having succeeded, it seems pretty unlikely he'd change his mind.

Quote:
The possible ramifications of exiting the European Union are becoming much clearer to U.K. voters since the vote: market turmoil, recession, Scottish independence, Irish unification, among others.
David Cameron has now forced the leaders of the Brexit campaign to take ownership of their victory. It’s quite a parting gift.

[/quote]

Again, only if the opinion of said reader is actually correct. For those who believe that the UK leaving the EU is actually a good idea, then being allowed to take that action and take credit for it *is* a good thing too. If Cameron really wanted to sabotage this, he could have chosen not to step down, pushed a halfhearted effort to invoke article 50, managed to "fail" at it, then hand the mess over to whomever comes along after him. By setting that business aside entirely, he certainly hands it over to his replacement, to succeed or fail, but at least it'll be entirely in their control (including the credit/blame).

I did find the end of day market results the day after the vote interesting. UK was down 4%. France down 8%. After the initial shock reaction by the markets, the results weren't that bad for the UK at all. I suspect the bigger losers in this are going to be the countries in the EU that have been being propped up by the more successful/productive nations. As more countries start looking at this equation and realizing that being part of a deal that grants them trade benefits with nations who are still costing them more than the trade is netting them, we may just have seen the first trickle from the floodgates. Hard to say this early though.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that this vote was a referendum on socialism in general, but it does have some interesting aspects of that question with regard to nations rather than individuals within nations. From what I've heard, a lot of the anger stemmed from the sense that the people in the UK had so little influence or control over decisions made by the EU, but were increasingly seeing their lives being changed as a result of those decisions. How much of this is political hoopla is hard to know, but the core was certainly already there. And it's interesting that this is a form of the same kind of anti-socialism that we see here in the US. It's all about decisions being made "far away" that increasingly seem to micromanage people's lives.

People seem to forget that part and parcel of the trade deals that the EU manages includes price and quantity controls. So, for example, factories in the UK may be restricted from producing more than X amount of a given product and/or forced to sell it at a given price, so that they don't overly compete with a similar industry in another country in the EU. It's no different than the trade/tariff stuff that all nations do, except that in this case it's not being done by the government of your nation to benefit your nations economy, but may be imposed on your nation to your detriment, but to the betterment of another EU nation that the EU leadership feels needs an economic boost, or otherwise believes that "the good of the whole" is better off as a result.


Again. There's no way to know whether this decision will ultimately be better for the UK, or worse. I actually suspect better, but I'm the eternal optimist when it comes to free (or maybe just "free-er") markets. It does somewhat jar the whole grand unified European "plan" that's been steadily grinding along for the past several decades though. I suspect that the EU will be worse off absent the UK, than the UK will be worse off outside the EU. But that will certainly depend on what they do going forward from today.
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#49 Jun 27 2016 at 9:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Totem wrote:
As for the calamity and ruin that is predicted by the Remainers and cosmopolitans, nothing will really change in terms of the economy. Nations will continue to trade, diplomacy will continue to occur, and the stock market will continue to rise and fall, just as if Great Britain had never left. The fearmongering of the elites will get them nowhere and life will go on.


What will change is that the folks in Brussels will have just a little less power than they had before. Which, IMO, was what this whole thing was really about all along.
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#50 Jun 27 2016 at 10:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
If you subscribe to a theory by a random reader of a newsletter, sure.

Can't be worse than random poster on a defunct gaming forum.
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#51 Jun 28 2016 at 3:23 AM Rating: Default
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What a ridiculously asterixed word. Your astute post has made me gay.
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