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#2553 Feb 28 2017 at 1:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
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The press pool is selected by the WHCA(the same organization making this statement).
My understanding is that the people allowed into the gaggle were not picked by the WHCA and instead were selected by the whitehouse directly, hence the exclusion of resources that would have normally been included in the pool


Your understanding is incorrect (I'd argue deliberately so, given the lengths the media is going to create this false impression). The people added to the gaggle in addition to the pool were selected by the Press Secretary. The press pool was invited to the gaggle. Just like they are for all gaggles. Just like they have always been to all gaggles. There is literally nothing at all unusual about this, except that the media decided out of the blue to pretend that there was.

The only even remotely vague complaint these media outlets could have is that they weren't on the list added in addition to the press pool. But this is normal. When the PS holds a gaggle in his office, he physically can't allow more than maybe 10 or 12 people in there. The full corps is like what 60 members? They can't all fit. They never fit. A large portion of the press corps is always excluded from those gaggles. This is, in fact, exactly why the press pool exists. As long as they were invited there is no problem.

The only difference, as I've mentioned repeatedly, is that those who weren't added to the list decided to demand that they be added, despite most not being added most of the time for these events, and then made a big show of not being allowed into the Press Secretaries office when they decided to show up anyway despite not having been invited, and then wrote stories about how they were excluded and it was so unfair, and whaaa whaaa whaaa....!

Totally made up. And obviously so for anyone who spends any time actually looking at the facts. The media is counting on most people not doing this, and most people just allowing their impressions and understandings from the story to influence them. Which is more or less precisely where the whole "fake news" narrative is coming from. It's this kind of stuff that is infuriating people, and the media just doing yet another blatant example of that behavior is not helping at all.
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#2554 Feb 28 2017 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
And obviously so for anyone who spends any time actually looking at the facts
Congratulations on eliminating yourself from the equation.
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#2555 Feb 28 2017 at 1:51 PM Rating: Decent
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If you're still in doubt, just read the CNN article I linked earlier. In the midst of the hysteria and quotes of outrage, are parts like this:

Quote:
In a brief statement defending the move, administration spokeswoman Sarah Sanders said the White House "had the pool there so everyone would be represented and get an update from us today."

The White House press pool usually includes representatives from one television outlet, one radio outlet and one print outlet, as well as reporters from a few wire services. In this case, four of the five major television networks -- NBC, ABC, CBS and Fox News -- were invited and attended the meeting, while only CNN was blocked.


Er. Muddled writing, since the last sentence there has nothing to do with the pool (but is making an irrelevant point about how 4 of the 5 major TV outlets were invited, which I suppose is relevant to CNN, but not to the actual content of the paragraph they're writing). The take away is that the pool was invited (and presumably was present barring their own choice not to attend I suppose). There is literally nothing unusual about this at all. But it's being reported as though it is. Which makes on wonder why? Other than than to fabricate a story and outrage, there's nothing. You could literally write this story about excluded media at every single gaggle that has ever been held at any White House event. Ever.

What we should be outraged about is the blatant misrepresentation of the facts by the media in this case. Heck. It's not even subtle. All you had to do was read the CNN story itself and then go research what the press pool is and how it works to see that the very story itself is inherently contradictory. A contradiction that every single journalist claiming outrage has to know is false (it's their profession and they know how the system works). The story literally assumes that the audience doesn't know what they know and they can safely just plain straight up lie to them and get away with it. That's freaking brazen.

This isn't even (or shouldn't be) about what "side" you're on. It should not matter if you are a Democrat or a Republican. A conservative or a liberal. A Trump supporter or Trump hater. You should expect and demand that your media, especially the media members sent by their respective outlets to act as the public's eyes and ears at the White House, should be telling us the truth and not deliberately misleading us. Yet that is exactly what they quite obviously are doing. And I guess they just assume we're all just to dumb to figure it out or something.

I assume most of you aren't dumb, right? So what is it? Partisanship is just so strong that you refuse to acknowledge what just happened? You'll just look the other way because maybe it benefits you, this time? That seems foolish to me.
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#2556 Feb 28 2017 at 1:55 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
And obviously so for anyone who spends any time actually looking at the facts
Congratulations on eliminating yourself from the equation.


Dude. Seriously? I get that this kind of sniping is your thing and all, but there's a point where your sheer level of idiocy is really only reflecting back on yourself.

You don't actually think you're being clever here, do you?
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#2557 Feb 28 2017 at 1:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
And I guess they just assume we're all just to dumb to figure it out or something.


...just assume we're all just too dumb...
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#2558 Feb 28 2017 at 2:01 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
You don't actually think you're being clever here, do you?
As clever as you believe "I know you are but what am I" is, it's been months since you've been asked for actual evidence of your claims and you've still avoided it like the plague so at this point there's no factual reason to entertain anything you say.
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#2559 Feb 28 2017 at 6:22 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
You don't actually think you're being clever here, do you?
As clever as you believe "I know you are but what am I" is, it's been months since you've been asked for actual evidence of your claims and you've still avoided it like the plague so at this point there's no factual reason to entertain anything you say.


Ah. Another case of the mysterious "you did something back in the past, that I'm not going to specifically or clearly state, but which invalidates what you're saying now" deflection. Got it. Why not just admit that I have a completely valid point in this case and move from there? The fact is that the media's actions in this are completely indefensible. So I guess instead of defending it, or acknowledging it, you're just going to deflect the issue? Not sure what that accomplishes, but congrats, I guess?

I'm reasonably certain that I've provided more than enough evidence and facts and argument in support of the claim I'm making right now, right here, in this thread. Is that not sufficient?

Edited, Feb 28th 2017 5:09pm by gbaji
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#2560 Feb 28 2017 at 6:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
gbaji wrote:
And I guess they just assume we're all just to dumb to figure it out or something.


...just assume we're all just too dumb...


Wow. Um... You're right. The correct and appropriate response to a massive example of media misinformation and false outrage is to point out a typo in my post. Hey. Did you notice the fly on the lens of the camera in the Zapruder film too?
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#2561 Feb 28 2017 at 7:30 PM Rating: Good
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This just in, Kellyanne put her feet on the couch. More at 11.
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#2562 Feb 28 2017 at 8:20 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Did you notice the fly on the lens of the camera in the Zapruder film too?


Are you comparing your post to the Zapruder film? In importance or in content?
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#2563 Mar 01 2017 at 8:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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45.5 wrote:
Another case of the mysterious "you did something back in the past, that I'm not going to specifically or clearly state, but which invalidates what you're saying now" deflection.
I see you're taking your standard approach of feigning ignorance while making random accusations in hopes to distract from your bluff not working. Let's see how well that works out for you this time.
45.5 wrote:
I'm reasonably certain that I've provided more than enough evidence and facts and argument in support of the claim I'm making right now, right here, in this thread.
You haven't.
TirithRR wrote:
This just in, Kellyanne put her feet on the couch.
Proof positive she's not Italian.
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
Are you comparing your post to the Zapruder film? In importance or in content?
Number of headaches.
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#2564 Mar 01 2017 at 9:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Proof positive she's not Italian.

They should put plastic covers on all the White House furniture.
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#2565 Mar 01 2017 at 10:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Proof positive she's not Italian.

They should put plastic covers on all the White House furniture.
I always assumed they had an army of Oompa-Loompas trailing after everyone constantly cleaning.
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#2566 Mar 01 2017 at 10:20 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
gbaji wrote:
And I guess they just assume we're all just to dumb to figure it out or something.


...just assume we're all just too dumb...


The correct and appropriate response to a massive example of media misinformation and false outrage is to point out a typo in my post.


I was also pointing out your overuse of the word "just".
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#2567 Mar 01 2017 at 10:22 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Proof positive she's not Italian.
They should put plastic covers on all the White House furniture.
I always assumed they had an army of Oompa-Loompas trailing after everyone constantly cleaning.
The Oompa-Loompa sits at the desk now.
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#2568 Mar 01 2017 at 10:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Proof positive she's not Italian.
They should put plastic covers on all the White House furniture.
I always assumed they had an army of Oompa-Loompas trailing after everyone constantly cleaning.
The Oompa-Loompa sits at the desk now.
Oompa Loompa doompity do

Got an executive order for you.

Oompa-Loompa doompity dee

Let's build a big concrete wall for free...

That was awful. I'm sticking to science stuff. Smiley: lol

Edited, Mar 1st 2017 8:58am by someproteinguy
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#2569 Mar 02 2017 at 8:31 AM Rating: Good
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How is that wall coming along, anyway? Last I heard Mexico still hasn't sent us a check, and the “existing funds and resources” that Mexico would totally pay us back for was short something like $21b.

Looks like Sessions is the next on the chopping block, as GOP lawmakers are turning on him for lying about Russia during his confirmation. I guess the whole "draining the swamp" thing was to create a revolving door administration.

Edited, Mar 2nd 2017 12:03pm by lolgaxe
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#2570 Mar 02 2017 at 1:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well you need something to revolve to pump the water out right? Isn't that how most pumps work?

The whole hubbub over the Russia thing continues to be amusing. Not sure what to make of it. Given they could kill us all at the drop of a hat anytime they wanted to, the idea that the President or some members of his staff are more sympathetic to their cause seems like small potatoes.

Edited, Mar 2nd 2017 11:14am by someproteinguy
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#2571 Mar 02 2017 at 3:52 PM Rating: Good
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Sessions recuses himself from Russia inquiry

45 wrote:
During a tour of the U.S.S. Gerald Ford Thursday afternoon, President Trump expressed support for his embattled attorney general, saying he had “total” confidence in Sessions.


Isn't Trumps "total confidence" the kiss of death?



Edited, Mar 2nd 2017 1:56pm by stupidmonkey
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#2572 Mar 02 2017 at 8:23 PM Rating: Good
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Fake news

CNN Article in the link wrote:
Sergey Kislyak, the Russian ambassador, is considered by US intelligence to be one of Russia's top spies and spy-recruiters in Washington, according to current and former senior US government officials.

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Dandruffshampoo wrote:
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#2573 Mar 03 2017 at 12:32 AM Rating: Good
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article wrote:
Meanwhile, the Russian government on Thursday said it has never interfered and has no plans to ever interfere in the domestic affairs of other countries, Kremlin spokesman Dmitri Peskov told journalists when questioned about Sessions.
That's...gbaji-level BS right there.
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#2574 Mar 03 2017 at 6:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, tell it to the Ukraine.
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#2575 Mar 03 2017 at 6:30 AM Rating: Good
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The most sensible explanation I've been given is not that there is so much a control element within the Trump administration from Russia, though still possible, but rather a Trump administration helps Putin domestically by giving him a foreign distraction. A flailing and failing U.S. presidency allows him to say how comparatively well he is doing, and actions like a Muslim country ban show that every democracy has its limits, and so his authoritarian regime seems less restrictive when the U.S. is also curtailing rights and freedom.
#2576 Mar 03 2017 at 8:18 AM Rating: Good
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I bet Pence is regretting how much focus they put on Clinton's emails now.
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#2577 Mar 03 2017 at 8:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
I bet Pence is regretting how much focus they put on Clinton's emails now.

Why? That helped win them an election whereas no one in the GOP will give a fuck about Pence's private-official email use, much less act on it in any appreciable way.
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#2578 Mar 03 2017 at 9:04 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Why?
One more thing to scramble to rationalize on top of the mountain of other turds they're dealing with. It's just fun watching how Tasmanian Devil this administration is becoming. Of course nothing is actually going to be done, Captain Obvious.

I'm also annoyed that the "breaking news" preempted the History of Comedy documentary. Smiley: motz

Edited, Mar 3rd 2017 10:17am by lolgaxe
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#2579 Mar 03 2017 at 10:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Allegory wrote:
The most sensible explanation I've been given is not that there is so much a control element within the Trump administration from Russia, though still possible, but rather a Trump administration helps Putin domestically by giving him a foreign distraction. A flailing and failing U.S. presidency allows him to say how comparatively well he is doing, and actions like a Muslim country ban show that every democracy has its limits, and so his authoritarian regime seems less restrictive when the U.S. is also curtailing rights and freedom.
Yeah, the "useful idiot" description seems like a better fit right now than the whole puppet regime conspiracy theory. Even if Trump was just a run-of-the-mill isolationist it'd be change from having people wanting to put puppet regimes on your borders. Enough of Trump's aims are popular here and benefit Russia indirectly anyway, so there's really no dire need to interfere on this level. The interfering is either being done at a different level, or not being bothered with at all.

Edited, Mar 3rd 2017 8:59am by someproteinguy
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#2580 Mar 03 2017 at 11:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Why?
One more thing to scramble to rationalize on top of the mountain of other turds they're dealing with. It's just fun watching how Tasmanian Devil this administration is becoming.
I'm actually sitting here wondering how the heck this doesn't come out during the general election campaign. You'd think someone on the Clinton team would have realized Pence was doing the same thing. Just seems like it's a weird thing to overlook, or at least a weird card not to play if you knew you had it in your hand.
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#2581 Mar 03 2017 at 3:15 PM Rating: Good
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Right now I'm wondering where the line is on this blind devotion I'm seeing, or if there is one at all. How anyone at this point can stand up for such a vile candidate/presidency is beyond belief.

How much lower than this can we go? Who might the next Republican president be-- Newt Gingrich? To what extent won't people take up defensive and apologetic attitudes and rationalize every detail, using terms like "personal freedom" to justify the obviously stupid and corrupt.

How bad can things be allowed to get before we collectively realize we've gone too far?
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#2582 Mar 03 2017 at 4:02 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
I bet Pence is regretting how much focus they put on Clinton's emails now.

Why? That helped win them an election whereas no one in the GOP will give a fuck about Pence's private-official email use, much less act on it in any appreciable way.
Personally, I'll get mad if he possibly put classified information at risk. Until then, meh.

Kuwoobie wrote:
Right now I'm wondering where the line is on this blind devotion I'm seeing, or if there is one at all. How anyone at this point can stand up for such a vile candidate/presidency is beyond belief.

How much lower than this can we go? Who might the next Republican president be-- Newt Gingrich? To what extent won't people take up defensive and apologetic attitudes and rationalize every detail, using terms like "personal freedom" to justify the obviously stupid and corrupt.

How bad can things be allowed to get before we collectively realize we've gone too far?
The fact that you still consider that there might be someone worse does you credit. People are at the point rationalizing away Dubya as being a pretty okay president. And I don't mean GOP partisans who already loved him. Smiley: laugh


Personally, I still think Trump has potential to be the best GOP president we've had since Lincoln, if he can get past the early patch. I'm not expecting that he will live up to that potential, but I think it's there. I still suspect I'll look back at the end of his time in office and think "Yep, still better than Hillary."
#2583 Mar 03 2017 at 4:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Personally, I'll get mad if he possibly put classified information at risk.

No you won't. And he did discuss homeland security and terrorism issues via his private email.
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#2584 Mar 03 2017 at 4:40 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Personally, I'll get mad if he possibly put classified information at risk.

No you won't. And he did discuss homeland security and terrorism issues via his private email.
Yes I will. I mean, I'm not gonna throw a conniption over it. But I'll get mad. Trump and Pence have made me mad a few times. I send them angry tweets, ask how they could be so stupid and move on with my life.

And was any of that info classified? I'll check after I wake up tonight to see if I'm sending Pence an angry tweet.
#2585 Mar 03 2017 at 5:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
I bet Pence is regretting how much focus they put on Clinton's emails now.

Why? That helped win them an election whereas no one in the GOP will give a fuck about Pence's private-official email use, much less act on it in any appreciable way.


Also, that despite massive attempts to distract the issue into the mere use of a private email account (see all the comparisons to Powell), the issue was about the use of a private email server (thus not subject to regulations involving archiving and subpoena), and in Clinton's case, the illegal transfer of classified information from secure State Department servers onto her own, very much not secure server.

I seem to recall a ton of talk during Bridge Gate about text messages and emails and whatnot being used as evidence of deliberate traffic blockages, yet I don't recall a single person suggesting that any of those messages or emails which were via private accounts rather than government issued accounts, somehow constituted a violation of the law. Strange, right? Oh wait! Not strange at all. There's nothing illegal about doing that. What's illegal is when you work with classified documents and store them on your own personal server in your basement.

Get back to me when this is even semi related, other than containing the word "email".
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#2586 Mar 03 2017 at 6:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Heh. Just did a bit more research on this, and apparently not only is it not illegal in Indiana law for the Governor to discuss work related stuff on a private email account, it is actually illegal for him to use his government provided account for anything that isn't strictly work related. Specifically, anything that's political in nature (like say discussions with campaign donors, conversations about anything not directly related to actions he's taking as Governor, etc). He's actually more or less required by law to have a separate private email account and he's actually safer under the law to lean more towards using it in preference to the government account if there's even a question as to whether it may fall outside "official work" territory.

Um... Yeah. So not even remotely similar. Honestly, the biggest concern (and surprise) is that people still have AOL accounts. Really? I mean, this is Indiana, but still...
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#2587 Mar 03 2017 at 9:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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45.5 wrote:
Get back to me when this is even semi related, other than containing the word "email".
No one came to you in the first place.
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#2588 Mar 03 2017 at 10:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
45.5 wrote:
Get back to me when this is even semi related, other than containing the word "email".
No one came to you in the first place.
*ZING!*
















No one comes with him, either!

DOUBLEZING!
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Jophiel wrote:
Last week, I saw a guy with an eyepatch and a gold monocle and pointed him out to Flea as one of the most awesome things I've seen, ever. If I had an eyepatch and a gold monocle, I'd always dress up as Mr. Peanut but with a hook hand and a parrot.
#2589 Mar 03 2017 at 11:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
And was any of that info classified? I'll check after I wake up tonight to see if I'm sending Pence an angry tweet.

We don't know because they won't say.
Indianapolis Star wrote:
Indiana Gov. Eric Holcomb's office released 29 pages of emails from Pence's AOL account, but declined to release an unspecified number of others because the state considers them confidential and too sensitive to release to the public.
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#2590 Mar 04 2017 at 1:18 AM Rating: Good
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Well, then I guess you're right by default. I can't see any point in getting mad if I can't be at least moderately sure he did something that will make me mad.
#2591 Mar 04 2017 at 2:36 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah, he's not a dumb ***** like Hillary so let's give him the benefit of the doubt.

******** eh?
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#2592 Mar 04 2017 at 7:18 AM Rating: Good
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They're tapping my wires!!!!
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#2593 Mar 04 2017 at 8:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Well, then I guess you're right by default. I can't see any point in getting mad if I can't be at least moderately sure he did something that will make me mad.

Ok, keep us posted.
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#2594 Mar 04 2017 at 9:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Easy enough for a sitting President to declassify orders from a previous administration. Let's see what you've got, Mango Man.
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#2595 Mar 04 2017 at 11:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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It was reported prior to the election that people in the counter-intelligence community sought approval for surveillance on people related to the Trump campaign from the FISA court. Supposedly, they were initially turned down and told to narrow their focus but then accepted. Related from the Guardian (from around six weeks ago):
Guardian wrote:
The Guardian has learned that the FBI applied for a warrant from the foreign intelligence surveillance (Fisa) court over the summer in order to monitor four members of the Trump team suspected of irregular contacts with Russian officials. The Fisa court turned down the application asking FBI counter-intelligence investigators to narrow its focus. According to one report, the FBI was finally granted a warrant in October, but that has not been confirmed, and it is not clear whether any warrant led to a full investigation.


If the FISA court did indeed approve these (which it seems they did since Trump says he was wire-tapped), it would be really odd that Trump would want to call further attention to it since it means that the FISA court found the allegations to be actionable. It's a tough sell to claim that the FBI, which was busy torpedoing Clinton's campaign with their on-off-on nonsense, was taking orders from Obama to hurt Trump versus, you know, acting on actual evidence.

Edited, Mar 4th 2017 11:59am by Jophiel
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#2596 Mar 04 2017 at 12:47 PM Rating: Good
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Someone on the Twitters pointed out that by tweeting about it, Trump may have opened up the results of the surveillance to public inquiry since its occurrence is no longer "classified".

FOIA, engage!
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#2597 Mar 05 2017 at 4:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Comey says that Trump is full of shit.
NYT wrote:
The F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, asked the Justice Department this weekend to publicly reject President Trump’s assertion that President Barack Obama ordered the tapping of Mr. Trump’s phones, senior American officials said on Sunday. Mr. Comey has argued that the highly charged claim is false and must be corrected, they said, but the department has not released any such statement.

Mr. Comey made the request on Saturday after Mr. Trump leveled his allegation on Twitter. Mr. Comey has been working to get the Justice Department to knock down Mr. Trump’s claim because there is no evidence to support it and it insinuates that the F.B.I. broke the law, the officials said.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#2598 Mar 05 2017 at 4:19 PM Rating: Good
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I have no great trust in Comey, but everyone in a position to know how Federal wiretaps are obtained has said some variation of, "That's not how this works. That's not how ANY of this works."
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In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

#2599 Mar 05 2017 at 7:09 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
I have no great trust in Comey, but everyone in a position to know how Federal wiretaps are obtained has said some variation of, "That's not how this works. That's not how ANY of this works."


Not to give any sort of credence to Trump's claims, but since when is the Government the trusted source on whether or not the Government is illegally wiretapping people?
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Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
#2600 Mar 05 2017 at 8:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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TirithRR wrote:
since when is the Government the trusted source on whether or not the Government is illegally wiretapping people?

Trump is "the government". At some point, you need to decide which wing of the government is more credible because just saying "the government" is meaningless.

We have one section of The Government making claims and refusing to back them up and, in fact, saying that they won't release any evidence to support their claims. You have another section pointing out why the first section's claims are improbable and asking for intercession to show it didn't happen. Maybe your standards are far different than mine but I'm not having much trouble determining who seems more credible right now.

Although it's certainly possible that the FBI did in fact tap phones in Trump Tower but did not tap phones specifically belonging to or in order to listen in on Trump but rather on some other member of his campaign staff. Which would actually fit the previous stories and also meet the definition of truth when saying "We did not tap Trump's phones". Really, there's not a result that helps Trump much here unless you believe that Obama actually personally decided to tap Trump but went around the FBI and FISA court to do it. Otherwise, we either have Trump ranting like a lunatic about nothing or else that the FISA court found credible reason to intercept his calls in the name of national security.

Obviously, a fair percentage of the population (and around 99.95% Trump supporters) will believe the Obama story anyway so I guess that's the pay-off for making the claims.

Edited, Mar 5th 2017 8:15pm by Jophiel
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#2601 Mar 05 2017 at 11:16 PM Rating: Good
Repressed Memories
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20,908 posts
Seems like a deliberate Gish Gallop by. If he can generate difficult to debunk controversies of low enough severity faster than than they can be thoroughly investigated to the satisfaction of supportive onlookers, I think he wins. Trump still hasn't released his tax return, but I don't know anybody who cares at this point.

It feeds his narrative about the media being against him, and normalizes a constant onslaught of criticism to where truly meaningful concerns are mixed in a sea of minor objections. Critics will find it difficult to rally around any singular issues, and instead havea slew of spoilers where they all take up separate items they believe to be the nail in the coffin.
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