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#2502 Feb 22 2017 at 12:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Timelordwho wrote:
The pickings are slim among those demo groups who can also do public speaking/self promotion.

People sit and listen to Ben Carson speak so the bar can't be too high.

Whatever gifts he has received in the field of neuroscience, and they are indeed ample, were not shared among his public speaking ability or skill in speaking on other non-brain related topics.
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#2503 Feb 22 2017 at 12:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
How buoyant are Real Dolls?

Be a newsworthy way to travel to Cuba. Call it a Poontoon.


There, was that so hard?

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#2504 Feb 22 2017 at 12:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Samira wrote:
There, was that so hard?
Yes.
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#2505 Feb 22 2017 at 1:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Demea wrote:
So essentially their looking for a figurehead to validate the rejection of rigid identity politics (i.e. "if you're female, brown, poor or ***, you MUST vote for Democrats"). Why do they always have to pick complete cretins like Milo and David Clarke? Just for the sake of novelty, or is it the shock value of the completely bonkers things they say and support?

Beats me. I find it more amusing that the Clinton/Trump vote may be split 95/5 (or whatever, I'm too lazy to look) but that's still one guy in twenty out of a population of ~35 million. But people act like it's like finding a unicorn to say "This black guy says Trump is keen" and hang on to him throughout almost any nonsense. The importance they place on these people only amplifies the other stuff. Just go find a different black guy!
That wouldn't work. You need to get kicked off of twitter first for the whole narrative to fit right, and finding a black guy who tweets coherently enough to offend people is harder that finding that unicorn.
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#2506 Feb 22 2017 at 6:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Friar Bijou wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
I've used it in the past to argue that it was wrong to label insurgents fighting against US soldiers in Iraq "terrorists" as well. Yes, even when they plant IEDs.

Here? Maybe you have. Care to refresh my memory?
I checked forum search "gbaji/insurgent" and found zero threads containing anything even remotely close to this claim.


The search feature doesn't seem to go back past 2006 now. I'm reasonably certain I posted the word "terrorist" at some point prior to that. And yes, I'm also quite sure I stated on more than one occasion that insurgent fighters in Iran and even Afghanistan were not automatically "terrorists", just because they were fighting US troops, even if they were planing bombs on the roadside.
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#2507 Feb 22 2017 at 6:43 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
That's just plain old hate crime going on there.
It's absolutely adorable you think there's no overlap.


I did not say there was no overlap, just that said overlap is not 100%. Not all hate crimes are terrorism. Surely you can agree with this?
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#2508 Feb 23 2017 at 12:16 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
The search feature doesn't seem to go back past 2006 now. I'm reasonably certain I posted the word "terrorist" at some point prior to that. And yes, I'm also quite sure I stated on more than one occasion that insurgent fighters in Iran and even Afghanistan were not automatically "terrorists", just because they were fighting US troops, even if they were planing bombs on the roadside.
Hence my admission of terrible search-fu, right?
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#2509 Feb 23 2017 at 8:41 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Not all hate crimes are terrorism.
Not all dead people are Alma Cogan, but some are.
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#2510 Feb 23 2017 at 9:12 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Not all hate crimes are terrorism.
Not all dead people are Alma Cogan, but some are.

I did some research, and..well, this checks out.
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#2511 Feb 23 2017 at 12:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Not all hate crimes are terrorism.
Not all dead people are Alma Cogan, but some are. [citation needed]


In other news, John Boehner says that the GOP is never going to manage to repeal the ACA and will, at best, make very moderate changes while leaving the main framework intact.

Edited, Feb 23rd 2017 12:38pm by Jophiel
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#2512 Feb 23 2017 at 12:55 PM Rating: Good
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Something something not a real conservative something something fake news something something yuge crowds.
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#2513 Feb 23 2017 at 1:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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In other, other news apparently Trump's BFF and editor in chief of Newsmax has said that it's time to dial back the media-as-the-enemy-of-the-people rhetoric.

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#2514 Feb 23 2017 at 2:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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That's strange. I don't think anyone has ever accused Newsmax of being the media.
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#2515 Feb 23 2017 at 3:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Maybe that's what he's afraid of. Smiley: eek
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#2516 Feb 23 2017 at 5:11 PM Rating: Good
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Looks like Fox News lost their token liberal. Looking for a new job, Joph?
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#2517 Feb 23 2017 at 5:15 PM Rating: Good
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Hey, speaking of shameless self-promoting cretins like David Clarke, WTF is this noise?!
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#2518 Feb 24 2017 at 8:22 AM Rating: Good
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The guy definitely has some misaligned wires, but that's an impressive bit of campaign merchandising.

Edited, Feb 24th 2017 9:38am by lolgaxe
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#2519 Feb 24 2017 at 1:35 PM Rating: Good
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So, a free press was nice, while it lasted. Link
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#2520 Feb 24 2017 at 2:04 PM Rating: Good
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Spicer is going to make a great director of the Ministry of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda.
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#2521 Feb 24 2017 at 2:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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People who pretend to give a shit about the Bill of Rights will shrug this off.
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#2522 Feb 24 2017 at 5:07 PM Rating: Good
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I promise not say "but Obama did it!" for the next four years, but remember that time they excluded Fox News from press briefings?

It didn't last long then, and neither will this, and it's wrong when any administrations does it.
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#2523 Feb 24 2017 at 5:55 PM Rating: Good
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Remember when Spicer said it wasn't cool?
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#2524 Feb 24 2017 at 6:44 PM Rating: Good
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Demea wrote:
It didn't last long then, and neither will this,
But for the last decade we were assured how it was the liberals that would do anything and everything to destroy the constitution and plunge us into anarchy while the conservatives were our last line of defense of all our constitutional rights!

Obviously it won't last, but much like the sudden onset symptoms of authoritarianism it certainly is amusing watching the reactions when it happens.
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#2526 Feb 24 2017 at 7:01 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
But for the last decade we were assured how it was the Other Tribe that would do anything and everything to destroy the constitution and plunge us into anarchy while My Tribe was our last line of defense of all our constitutional rights!

FTFY

Just depends on which cable news channel you watch.
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#2527 Feb 24 2017 at 7:09 PM Rating: Good
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Channel nothing, it was gbaji and varus.

And for the record, I don't believe there's much difference between the two tribes.

Edited, Feb 24th 2017 8:12pm by lolgaxe
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#2528 Feb 24 2017 at 7:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Demea wrote:
I promise not say "but Obama did it!" for the next four years, but remember that time they excluded Fox News from press briefings?

It didn't last long then, and neither will this, and it's wrong when any administrations does it.


The more important point, apparently lost in the faux outrage, is that Fox News was actually barred from regular briefings in the briefing room. Note that the story in 2009 takes place during a "gaggle" in the Press Secretary's office, in which said barring was discussed and reported on. Such gaggles, in the PS's office, which does not have room for more than a dozen or so reporters, are not:

NYT wrote:
The New York Times’ executive editor, Dean Baquet, told his paper’s reporter that “nothing like this has ever happened at the White House in our long history of covering multiple administrations of different parties.”


Again. The story you just linked was a quote from an exchange in exactly such a gaggle, where we can assume the full press was not allowed to attend, yet absolutely no mention was made of this fact, nor did it generate any outrage. Gaggles are normal. They happen all the time. And they always, by necessity, involve exclusion of most of the full press members that would normally attend a full briefing in the briefing room. Yet this time, it's an outrage? Um...

This is yet another example of fake news. Heck. It's almost like Trump's just trolling them at this point.
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#2529 Feb 24 2017 at 7:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
Remember when Spicer said it wasn't cool?


So other than, ABC, NBC, CBS, Bloomberg, WSJ, Fox, Time, AP, and a ton of other journalists in the normal "pool", plus a few more, you're absolutely correct. Media access was just, like, totally blocked! Just like what a dictator does!!! OMG. Let's all be super alarmed about this.

Or... maybe... we learn about about how press pools work, how they are assigned, and more importantly, how they have always been assigned, and then maybe... just maybe... we'll realize there's nothing to this at all.

Wow. Just... wow. Um. Let me know when no media is allowed to report on anything, is barred from entering the building, no press briefings are held at all, etc. Then we can talk. This is just a handful of liberal media outlets accustomed to getting their way, getting butthurt because they weren't added into the list of "also included" on top of the regular press pool, with that honor going to a handful of other media outlets instead.
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#2530 Feb 24 2017 at 8:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
People who pretend to give a shit about the Bill of Rights will shrug this off.

Check it out. I was 100% right.
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#2531 Feb 24 2017 at 8:20 PM Rating: Good
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Congratulations on predicting water would be wet.
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#2532 Feb 24 2017 at 8:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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I like to grab the easy points to run up my score.
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#2533 Feb 24 2017 at 8:43 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
Remember when Spicer said it wasn't cool?


So other than, ABC, NBC, CBS, Bloomberg, WSJ, Fox, Time, AP, and a ton of other journalists in the normal "pool", plus a few more, you're absolutely correct. Media access was just, like, totally blocked! Just like what a dictator does!!! OMG. Let's all be super alarmed about this.


(This is a FacePalm smiley from iOS)

Edited, Feb 24th 2017 6:58pm by stupidmonkey
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#2534 Feb 24 2017 at 10:51 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I like to grab the easy points to run up my score.

That's why you'll never beat Trump: you're grabbing points while he's grabbing... well, you know.
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#2535 Feb 25 2017 at 1:58 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Or... maybe... we learn about about how press pools work,.
Lesson #1: Breitbart is about as much "the press" as =4 is.
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#2536 Feb 25 2017 at 7:05 AM Rating: Good
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Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Or... maybe... we learn about about how press pools work,.
Lesson #1: Breitbart is about as much "the press" as =4 is.
Of course, cause now Breitbart is the Administration. Smiley: schooled
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#2537 Feb 26 2017 at 8:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Gbaji wrote:
Not all hate crimes are terrorism.
So, I looked up the definitions of the two and I can't see any meaningful difference where the high profile attacks wouldn't be considered terrorism.

Side note: ISIS was supposed to be gone within 3o days. Is it official?
#2538 Feb 26 2017 at 10:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
Side note: ISIS was supposed to be gone within 3o days. Is it official?

I think the wall fence dotted line is supposed to keep them out.
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#2539 Feb 27 2017 at 8:23 AM Rating: Good
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Guess we'll find out Wednesday since no one is going to watch the address tomorrow night.
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#2540 Feb 27 2017 at 11:42 AM Rating: Good
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This administration has made "the press" into their enemy. It's kind of like being some random passer-by thinking you're going to discuss politics 2008's Asylum with a wagon full of unpopular opinions and expecting everyone to agree with you-- then raging at them and saying only Varus is allowed to post in their private blog when they don't. --being belligerent and defensive about every little thing because "grrr, you're the media and I don't like you!"

The more Trump cries about the media being mean to him, the deeper they will dig their claws into his flesh just to hear him squeal. I really want to know what they think is going to happen.
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#2541 Feb 27 2017 at 3:19 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Guess we'll find out Wednesday since no one is going to watch the address tomorrow night.


I've though for a moment of just muting the TV and have Close Captioning selected.

Then I figure I might not even be able to handle that.

So if I feed a need to have some news in real time, I'll open up the NY Times page with real time commentary by their reporters about the garbage that comes out of 45's mouth.

I expect he'll spend most of the time boosting about how much he done already and complaining about the Fake News and evil MSM.

edit because my keyboard and mouse don't like to stay with me, as i type.

Edited, Feb 27th 2017 4:23pm by ElneClare
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#2542 Feb 27 2017 at 5:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Or... maybe... we learn about about how press pools work,.
Lesson #1: Breitbart is about as much "the press" as =4 is.


Irrelevant. The gaggle includes the white house press pool plus a handful of other outlets chosen by the Press Secretary. That's absolutely normal. The pool itself rotates among the members of the press corps and is designed to ensure that even in small venues, everyone gets to share in the video/audio/notes/etc taken of the event when it's in a venue too small for the entire corps.

The point is that, by it's very nature, no media event in which the current press pool is invited is "excluding" any member of the press. The entire outrage is fabricated, and largely rests on the assumption that most people don't know the difference between a briefing and a gaggle, nor how the press pool is made up, nor how media is normally managed. No one was excluded from the gaggle. The only thing even remotely different is that the extra journalists invited by the Press Secretary in addition to the pool included a few conservative media outlets instead of the usual flock of liberals.

Again though, who the Secretary chooses to invite in addition to the pool does not matter in terms of whether the media is being "excluded". As long as the press pool is invited, then all media outlets are "included".
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#2543 Feb 27 2017 at 5:46 PM Rating: Default
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Kuwoobie wrote:
This administration has made "the press" into their enemy.


Only if you strip off adjectives like "fake", "misleading", "lying", etc from the phrase. The administration's issue is with media outlets that seem to be less interested in informing their viewers/readers than they are with finding any way at all to twist the language of something in a way to make it negative towards the administration, the Republican party, and Conservatives in general. So more or less the same thing I've railed about for like the entire life of this forum.

And yeah, btw, mislabeling a gaggle as a briefing (doubly funny if you look at the title of the article and compare to the url itself btw) and then claiming that some violation of our freedom of the press has occurred as a result, is absolutely "fake news". It's exactly the kind of thing that Trump has been attacking, and they respond by... providing yet another example of the behavior.

Not exactly winning points there, are they?

Quote:
The more Trump cries about the media being mean to him, the deeper they will dig their claws into his flesh just to hear him squeal. I really want to know what they think is going to happen.


You mean the media? I think they'll continue to lose credibility the more they keep doubling down on the same BS. All they just did was confirm Trump's claim with this. Doing more of the same will only make things worse for them, not better.
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#2544 Feb 27 2017 at 5:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'd just like to remind everryone that gbaji doesn't support Trump.
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#2545 Feb 27 2017 at 6:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Almalieque wrote:
Gbaji wrote:
Not all hate crimes are terrorism.
So, I looked up the definitions of the two and I can't see any meaningful difference where the high profile attacks wouldn't be considered terrorism.


Um... You provided your own answer. The "high profile" cases are a subset of all "hate crimes" (and are presumably large scale type events). Some guy randomly beating up a *** guy because of his sexual orientation is committing a hate crime. He's not even remotely committing an act of terrorism though. Somewhat by definition a hate crime is the result of someone's hate (obvious yeah). If you hate <insert group here> you're not necessarily planning some grand scheme to influence people's opinions much less broad political policies when you take a hateful action towards a member of that group. The thought process for such people likely does not extend much beyond "there's someone in <insert group> right there! Let's get him!".

For it to be terrorism, there has to be an intent to use the event to put fear into the population as a whole, with an eye towards changing positions/policies in some way. The IRA planted bombs in public places and then called up the cops and told them where the bombs were. In most cases, no one was injured (with some notable exceptions). The implicit threat to this was "we didn't have to call you, and maybe we wont next time". That's terrorism. Even if no one was hurt, it's terrorism. Even if there's no "hate" involved, the methodology makes it terrorism. I'm not saying that many members of the IRA didn't also hate the Brits, but their motivation was primarily political changes involving how Northern Ireland was treated and represented in the UK (or for some a desire to not be in the UK in the first place). It wasn't just "I hate those guys". It was "I don't like what those guys are doing and I've settled on this as a means to get them to change".
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#2546 Feb 27 2017 at 6:45 PM Rating: Default
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Kavekkk wrote:
I'd just like to remind everryone that gbaji doesn't support Trump.


I don't support using false information to influence perceptions and opinions. Nothing more. I'd be making the exact same argument right now if it were still Obama in the office and his Press Secretary did the same thing, and the media tried to falsely make hay out of it. Um... The key difference is that the media never made these sorts of accusations when Obama's Press Secretary (or any past Secretary) held gaggles in his office, but are in this case.

Oh. And just before anyone goes there. The press pool members (typically one print, one online, one TV, and one radio journalist) rotates each day and the members are selected by the White House Corespondents Association, *not* the White House. So Spicer has zero ability to "exclude" anyone. The pool is selected by the collection of journalists themselves, and the pool was included in the event. What happened last Friday was a normal informal meeting in the PS's office. Just like hundreds of past such gaggles. None of which have *ever* resulted in outrage because every member of the press corps was not allowed in the room.

Seriously. Can anyone actually explain to me what was done that was wrong here? Anyone? I get that there's a ton of screeching and crying, and when we hear that much noise, we often just assume there must be something legitimate behind it. But when you look at what actually happened, can anyone state objectively what was done that was wrong or even remotely a violation of standard meetings between the PS and the press? Cause I sure can't.

Edited, Feb 27th 2017 5:04pm by gbaji
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#2547 Feb 27 2017 at 8:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
I don't support using false information to influence perceptions and opinions.
Bullshit.
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#2548 Feb 27 2017 at 8:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Remember when Gbaji argued for pages defending Breitbart using edited video with a misleading introduction to make some Obama administration peon look racist?

The irony here is like a onion -- so many layers!
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#2549 Feb 27 2017 at 9:07 PM Rating: Default
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Oh. And I particularly love this bit of completely BS grandstanding:

White House Correspondents Association wrote:
"The WHCA board is protesting strongly against how today's gaggle is being handled by the White House," it said in a statement. "We encourage the organizations that were allowed in to share the material with others in the press corps who were not. The board will be discussing this further with White House staff."


Let's just pause to recognize how utterly false and deliberately misleading this is. The implication one gets from this is that since many media outlets were excluded from the gaggle, they have no access to what was said inside, and thus the need to put out a plea for those in attendance to pass along what was said and heard to the rest of the press corps.

Here's the problem with that (and why it's intentionally misleading). As I've mentioned a couple of times already, the press pool was invited to the gaggle. The press pool is selected by the WHCA (the same organization making this statement). The press pool exists specifically to cover events where the size of the room/venue/whatever isn't large enough for the entire press corps to attend (like, say a meeting in the Press Secretary's office). To be selected as a member of the press pool, you must be a member of the press corp and agree to pass along any information, recordings, video, etc obtained at the event for the free use by all other media members in the press corp. That's the entire point of the press pool. It's to ensure that every member of the corp can print a quote, or use a video or audio taken at any event, even if they could not personally attend due to space issues. They are basically the chosen representatives of the entire press corps. Hence why I've repeatedly stated that as long as the pool reporters are present, there can be no "exclusion". Everyone in the entire press corps has access to and use of everything that happens in the presence of the press pool. That's how the system works.

Calling on those who attended to share the material with the others in the press corp is a completely unnecessary and redundant request. The pool was in the room. They're already required to do this, and have already agreed to do this. The only reason to make this statement, isn't to actually try to get access to what was said in the gaggle, but to mislead the public into thinking that they didn't already have that access and had to make some kind of special request to get it. Which in turn helps to perpetuate the false belief that anything at all unusual or wrong has occurred.

Which, you know, just kinda takes the cake here. Now if it were some random bloggers (or posters on a forum board) out there ignorantly demanding this, so that the "free media" has access to what was said in the gaggle, you could excuse it. They're just ignorant of the process. But this came directly from the WHCA board. A group of people who know very well how the press pool system works. They're the ones who developed it, and the ones who manage it, and the ones who select those who are in it. They can't claim ignorance. So we must conclude that this is a very deliberate bit of misinformation. Which yeah... Just doubles down on fake news.


Pretty darn indefensible IMO. But maybe I'm wrong. Anyone care to defend this statement by the WHCA? I'd love to hear it. For the lulz if nothing else.
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#2550 Feb 28 2017 at 7:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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The press pool is selected by the WHCA(the same organization making this statement).
My understanding is that the people allowed into the gaggle were not picked by the WHCA and instead were selected by the whitehouse directly, hence the exclusion of resources that would have normally been included in the pool
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#2551 Feb 28 2017 at 8:33 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Let's just pause to recognize how utterly false and deliberately misleading this is.
No need to pause. You posted it so it's just second nature to treat it as utterly false and deliberately misleading.
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George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
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