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#52 Sep 18 2015 at 9:24 AM Rating: Good
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I can't even believe there is a debate about this one. What is the tl;dr of what gbaji is saying? That it would have happened to anyone?

They couldn't have just looked the the thing with their eyes and said "Oh, you know, that's not a bomb" and gone about their day? It's like the gun-shaped Pop-Tart incident all over again, but worse.
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#53 Sep 18 2015 at 9:38 AM Rating: Good
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I used to have a chunk of a motherboard on my keychain. Guessing that wouldn't fly nowadays. Would have been novel getting crap for that instead of my black trench coat(I was in HS during the Columbine era).
#54 Sep 18 2015 at 9:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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I still use an old SIMM memory stick for my keys. Fortunately, I'm an old white guy.
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#55 Sep 18 2015 at 9:49 AM Rating: Good
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Kuwoobie wrote:
That it would have happened to anyone?
That white kids get cuffed, printed, and interrogated for much less all the time, but the liberal media is just hiding all the examples of it happening.

Edited, Sep 18th 2015 11:54am by lolgaxe
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#56 Sep 18 2015 at 10:19 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I still use an old SIMM memory stick for my keys. Fortunately, I'm an old white guy.
True. Even as a teen I'd probably be fine in this day and age, since everyone's more worried about foreign bombers than crazy white kids in big coats or unabomber lookalikes.
#57 Sep 18 2015 at 11:28 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Let me repeat. Looked like something that could be mistaken for a bomb. Could therefore have been intended to be used as a hoax bomb. Student therefore handcuffed and detained until intent could be determined. Student released without charges once it was determined not to be a hoax bomb. That's how the legal system works.
Sadly, in certain rather backward jurisdictions.

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#58 Sep 18 2015 at 11:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not sure why they handcuffed the kid. He weighs, what? 120?

Maybe they were afraid he was gonna do a double back flip and make another clock, ninja style.
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#59 Sep 18 2015 at 12:26 PM Rating: Decent
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
I used to have a chunk of a motherboard on my keychain. Guessing that wouldn't fly nowadays. Would have been novel getting crap for that instead of my black trench coat(I was in HS during the Columbine era).

Pfft, I was wearing my dad's London Fog to school *before* Columbine.

And I used to have a laptop memory card on my keyring too.
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#60 Sep 18 2015 at 12:30 PM Rating: Good
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Are you trying to out dork him?
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#61 Sep 18 2015 at 12:42 PM Rating: Good
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I read comic books and wore combat boots.

So nothing changed. Livin' the dream.
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#62 Sep 18 2015 at 12:58 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
So nothing changed. Livin' the dream.
Liar, you leveled up when you started watching MLP.
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#63 Sep 18 2015 at 1:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Debalic wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
I used to have a chunk of a motherboard on my keychain. Guessing that wouldn't fly nowadays. Would have been novel getting crap for that instead of my black trench coat(I was in HS during the Columbine era).
Pfft, I was wearing my dad's London Fog to school *before* Columbine.

The reason why you weren't "getting crap" in your dad's coat is probably because you looked like Columbo.
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#64 Sep 18 2015 at 4:01 PM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
So nothing changed. Livin' the dream.
Liar, you leveled up when you started watching MLP.
Don't lie. You've always wondered what friendship could be.
#65 Sep 18 2015 at 6:53 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
Yeah, no one thought it was a bomb. But it seems that you can just say something looks like a "hoax bomb" because it has a circuit board and a display. Like a calculator. Or a digital watch. Or a hand held gaming device. Or a a phone. Or a tablet. Or a coffee maker. Or a digital thermometer. Or those old digital pets. Or... a clock.


Sigh. If someone takes those things apart, spreads the components around inside a box, and then wires them together, then yes, some people will think that looks like a bomb. Certainly, most people would think that's out of place. The standard here is "if a random student or faculty member saw this sitting unattended, is it likely they might think it's a bomb (or some other dangerous device)?". If the answer is "yes", then the item isn't something a student should be taking to school, unannounced, and carrying around with out teacher knowledge and supervision.

The answer, clearly, is "yes". I know many of you have latched so firmly onto the "profiled Muslim kid" narrative that you just don't want to see this, but this is the reality. Leave that same device lying around in a school, and someone will tell the faculty that they saw something that looks like it might be a bomb. And the faculty response to that isn't to go check out the device to see if it's a bomb, but to immediately evacuate the school and call the bomb squad. Because their first priority is the safety of the students, not making sure that they don't make a mistake. You can always fix the mistake in the other direction, but if you hesitate, and it is a bomb, people will die.

No one believed this was a bomb. What they believed was that it was something that could be mistaken for a bomb, and therefore should not have been taken to school. I'm really not sure why so many people are having such a hard time understanding this.

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The standard is apparently "So long as I arbitrarily say it looks like a bomb despite all logic and common sense, that's a good enough reason to have you arrested and taken off in handcuffs. And it'll be your fault for being 'foolish' enough to have brought it."


Despite all common sense and logic? Are you kidding? Because of common sense and logic. Again, leave such a device lying around at a school unattended, and see what happens. You can sit there and declare that no one would ever think it might be a bomb, but the fact is that most people would. More importantly, it only takes *one* person to think it might be a bomb. So how about instead of creating a standard where 100% of all people who might see something must be educated enough about electronics to be able to accurately determine if something is or isn't a bomb, we adopt a standard that says that we should avoid leaving stuff lying around that looks out of place, even if we know it's not dangerous. It's terrifically easy after the fact, when you know it was just a taken apart clock, to be so sure that it wasn't a bomb, and therefore no one could possibly mistake it for such, but that's just plain wrong. Bomb squads get called to investigate harmless devices whenever some random person *thinks* they aren't harmless.

I find this image to be relevant here. Can you honestly say that if you hadn't already seen the picture of this kids clock, you'd be able to identify which of these devices isn't an IED? I don't think very many people could.
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#66 Sep 18 2015 at 7:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Kuwoobie wrote:
I can't even believe there is a debate about this one. What is the tl;dr of what gbaji is saying? That it would have happened to anyone?

They couldn't have just looked the the thing with their eyes and said "Oh, you know, that's not a bomb" and gone about their day? It's like the gun-shaped Pop-Tart incident all over again, but worse.


Did the pop-tart gun incident happen to a Muslim kid? How about the nerf gun incident? Or dozens of squirt gun incidents? Or drawing a picture of a gun? Or using a sign language signal for name that looks like a gun pointing gesture? Did those all happen just to Muslim kids? Or is this exactly the kind of thing that "would have happened to anyone"?

We can certainly talk about whether zero tolerance rules result in overreactions (they do). But my issue is with the whole "profiled because he's Muslim" angle. That's complete and utter BS. The school officials and the police did not treat him any differently because of his ethnicity or religion. Ironically though, everyone jumping on the "defend this kid from anti-Muslim bias" are. So the one Muslim kid who suffers from a zero tolerance overreaction gets an invite to the White House? Um... That's someone treating him differently because of his religion right there.
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#67 Sep 18 2015 at 7:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Sigh. If someone takes those things apart, spreads the components around inside a box, and then wires them together, then yes, some people will think that looks like a bomb.

Some people will think it looks like a portrait of Jesus or the Holy Mother but that doesn't mean it's divinely inspired, either. Maybe we should base these things on what an intelligent and reasonable person would think rather than what "some people" would think. At least before we go arresting kids over blind hysteria.
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No one believed this was a bomb. What they believed was that it was something that could be mistaken for a bomb, and therefore should not have been taken to school.

That's the hilarious dissonance of your argument. "No one thought it was a bomb -- but someone will think it's a bomb!" "No one thought it was a bomb -- but look at this picture someone on the internet made of grainy and poorly cropped bombs!"
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Despite all common sense and logic? Are you kidding?

No, but then I'm not trying to defend school officials and the police arresting a kid over a clock either so I don't have to stretch my credulity as far as you do.
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More importantly, it only takes *one* person to think it might be a bomb.

For... what to happen? Because, it only takes one person to decide that a calculator looks like a bomb or a phone or a shoe or a cat or a tree or a pile of tissue paper. What happens then?
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Bomb squads get called to investigate harmless devices whenever some random person *thinks* they aren't harmless.

So your argument is that kids should also get arrested, handcuffed and taken to the police station and juvenile detention facility if they bring a lunchbox to school? Because someone once thought a lunchbox was a bomb, Gbaji! It only takes one person!
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I find this image to be relevant here.

It is an excellent lesson on stupid internet shit people will eat up on Facebook, yes. Your argument is that no one could possibly tell this from an IED except no one actually thought it was a bomb but that's exactly what makes it so dangerous... or something Smiley: facepalm
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#68 Sep 18 2015 at 7:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Did the pop-tart gun incident happen to a Muslim kid? How about the nerf gun incident? Or dozens of squirt gun incidents? Or drawing a picture of a gun? Or using a sign language signal for name that looks like a gun pointing gesture? Did those all happen just to Muslim kids?

Did those end in arrest, handcuffing, detainment, attempted coercion into a false confession, mug shots, fingerprinting?
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#69 Sep 18 2015 at 8:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Debalic wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
I used to have a chunk of a motherboard on my keychain. Guessing that wouldn't fly nowadays. Would have been novel getting crap for that instead of my black trench coat(I was in HS during the Columbine era).
Pfft, I was wearing my dad's London Fog to school *before* Columbine.
The reason why you weren't "getting crap" in your dad's coat is probably because you looked like Columbo.
/squint

"Just...one more thing. What chapter were you supposed to be reading for AP History?"

/chewcigarbutt
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#70 Sep 18 2015 at 8:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Did the pop-tart gun incident happen to a Muslim kid?
Didn't end with white kid being handcuffed, printed, and interrogated.
gbaji wrote:
How about the nerf gun incident?
Didn't end with white kid being handcuffed, printed, and interrogated.
gbaji wrote:
Or dozens of squirt gun incidents?
Didn't end with white kid being handcuffed, printed, and interrogated.
gbaji wrote:
Or drawing a picture of a gun?
Didn't end with white kid being handcuffed, printed, and interrogated.
gbaji wrote:
Or using a sign language signal for name that looks like a gun pointing gesture?
Didn't end with white kid being handcuffed, printed, and interrogated.
gbaji wrote:
Or is this exactly the kind of thing that "would have happened to anyone"?
If you ignore the whole being handcuffed, printed, and interrogated part.
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#71 Sep 18 2015 at 11:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Debalic wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
I used to have a chunk of a motherboard on my keychain. Guessing that wouldn't fly nowadays. Would have been novel getting crap for that instead of my black trench coat(I was in HS during the Columbine era).
Pfft, I was wearing my dad's London Fog to school *before* Columbine.

The reason why you weren't "getting crap" in your dad's coat is probably because you looked like Columbo.

Dude, I *loved* Columbo.
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#72 Sep 19 2015 at 2:40 AM Rating: Good
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Kuwoobie wrote:
I can't even believe there is a debate about this one. What is the tl;dr of what gbaji is saying? That it would have happened to anyone?

They couldn't have just looked the the thing with their eyes and said "Oh, you know, that's not a bomb" and gone about their day? It's like the gun-shaped Pop-Tart incident all over again, but worse.

Yes, he is saying that it would happen to anyone. And because it was a "hoax bomb", the kid had to be detained, fingerprinted, and interrogated. But also because it was a "hoax bomb", there was no need to evacuate the school and call the bomb squad, since they knew it wasn't real. But the kid still needed to be arrested because he might blow somebody up.
#73 Sep 19 2015 at 6:26 AM Rating: Decent
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xantav wrote:
Kuwoobie wrote:
I can't even believe there is a debate about this one. What is the tl;dr of what gbaji is saying? That it would have happened to anyone?

They couldn't have just looked the the thing with their eyes and said "Oh, you know, that's not a bomb" and gone about their day? It's like the gun-shaped Pop-Tart incident all over again, but worse.

Yes, he is saying that it would happen to anyone. And because it was a "hoax bomb", the kid had to be detained, fingerprinted, and interrogated. But also because it was a "hoax bomb", there was no need to evacuate the school and call the bomb squad, since they knew it wasn't real. But the kid still needed to be arrested because he might blow somebody up.


Sigh, it did not meet criteria for the "hoax bomb" so there should not be a reaction associated with a "hoax bomb". If you think this incident did meet the criteria ( and the law applies to everyone equally ), we should be detaining, fingerprinting and interrogating a whole lot more people.
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#74 Sep 19 2015 at 8:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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I like the links Gbaji picked out. Starting with the second, two girls were arrested for putting an alarm clock into an empty locker with the intent to scare people. But it's the second half that matters: they admitted to trying to scare people. That's the crieria for a "hoax bomb" that Gbaji keeps missing. It could have been an alarm clock or a clock stuck to a package of hot dogs or a bowling ball with a fuse stuck in it or a sheet of paper saying "I am a bomb" -- the important part is that they were using it maliciously to frighten people into thinking it was a bomb. This kid never did that. He always maintained that it was a clock, never suggested it was anything other than a clock and any "but what if it's a bomb but not a real bomb or else I'd leave?" nonsense came from the outside.

In the former, a school was evacuated because a student left a lunchbox sitting unattended. That was it. It didn't have a clock in it, or a bomb, we don't even know if it had a lunch in it. Someone saw a lonely lunchbox, panicked and called the bomb squad. If the criteria for a "hoax bomb" is that someone might maybe sorta think it's a real bomb then every student who brings a lunchbox to school needs to be arrested. Because we have zero people who thought Ahmed's clock was a bomb that warranted an evacuation but a clear case of people thinking that lunchboxes are bombs that warrant it. By Gbaji's criteria, there is absolutely no excuse for not arresting every student who brings a lunchbox to school no matter how benign: If people can (not) be scared by a clock, they can provably be scared by a lunchbox so every lunchbox is a potential "hoax bomb" and the zero tolerance policy Gbaji is relying on demands that every one of these children be incarcerated for the good of the school. After all, common sense has no place here -- if it can trick one idiot into thinking it sorta looks maybe like a bomb, all bets are off.

Gbaji managed to find two stories that don't cover this event at all. In one, some girls acted with clear and admitted intent, but Ahmed never did. In the other, people legitimately thought an object was dangerous but no one ever thought that of Ahmed's clock. Mash them together and you get.... well, nothing that remotely relates to Ahmed's circumstances except for him being arrested.
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#75 Sep 19 2015 at 4:34 PM Rating: Good
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angrymnk wrote:
xantav wrote:
Kuwoobie wrote:
I can't even believe there is a debate about this one. What is the tl;dr of what gbaji is saying? That it would have happened to anyone?

They couldn't have just looked the the thing with their eyes and said "Oh, you know, that's not a bomb" and gone about their day? It's like the gun-shaped Pop-Tart incident all over again, but worse.

Yes, he is saying that it would happen to anyone. And because it was a "hoax bomb", the kid had to be detained, fingerprinted, and interrogated. But also because it was a "hoax bomb", there was no need to evacuate the school and call the bomb squad, since they knew it wasn't real. But the kid still needed to be arrested because he might blow somebody up.


Sigh, it did not meet criteria for the "hoax bomb" so there should not be a reaction associated with a "hoax bomb". If you think this incident did meet the criteria ( and the law applies to everyone equally ), we should be detaining, fingerprinting and interrogating a whole lot more people.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply I believed it. I was just trying to give Gbaji's TL:DR to Kuwoobie to point out the hypocrisy of his position.
#76 Sep 19 2015 at 4:44 PM Rating: Good
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