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#1 Apr 23 2015 at 6:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Much as I dislike the term millenials, they seem to be the only age group in US that likes Snowden and what he did. Apparently, the older you get, the less predisposed you feel towards him. I am not looking forward to my 'get off my lawn' days.

Not to anyone's surprise, he is viewed much better outside of US.
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#2 Apr 23 2015 at 7:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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I bet that they love him in Russia though, so there's that.
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#3 Apr 23 2015 at 7:37 AM Rating: Good
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That's how it works, right? If you don't like your current location for whatever reason, just get up and go to a new silver mine.
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#5 Apr 23 2015 at 10:50 AM Rating: Good
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Above a certain resource/income level, yes it is true. Travel is fairly easy for those of means who don't like the political situation in their country. There is absolutely an opportunity cost to doing so, but it's not impossible.
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#6 Apr 23 2015 at 11:26 AM Rating: Good
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angrymnk wrote:

Much as I dislike the term millenials, they seem to be the only age group in US that likes Snowden and what he did. Apparently, the older you get, the less predisposed you feel towards him. I am not looking forward to my 'get off my lawn' days.
I doubt most Americans even realize exactly what he did. John Oliver did a thing about Snowden and most people had little clue who he was.
#7 Apr 23 2015 at 11:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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angrymnk wrote:
Not to anyone's surprise, he is viewed much better outside of US.

Yeah, one of the questions was whether you thought his actions would help or hurt YOUR country's security. Well, if it comes out that the US was spying on Germany then it stands to reason that Germans would be more favorably inclined towards Snowden than Americans would be.
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#8 Apr 23 2015 at 12:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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angrymnk wrote:

Much as I dislike the term millenials, they seem to be the only age group in US that likes Snowden and what he did. Apparently, the older you get, the less predisposed you feel towards him. I am not looking forward to my 'get off my lawn' days.

Not to anyone's surprise, he is viewed much better outside of US.
The older you are, the more time you spent growing up in a cold war world. Leaking secrets about your country's security and fleeing to Russia was about as bad as it gets in that regard. I imagine aiding "terrorists" will be viewed much differently by our grandchildren than those who lived through 9/11.
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#9 Apr 23 2015 at 12:13 PM Rating: Good
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We'll always create a boogeyman to fight against. I'll probably even be able to prove it in like two~ish hours.
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#10 Apr 23 2015 at 12:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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It is a talent. We've got a good run-up in hating the Chinese already, so that's a start. Maybe we can hate Brazil for something.
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#11 Apr 23 2015 at 2:37 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm not sure if the article highlights the idiocy of millenials, or the idiocy of the author of the article:

Quote:
Millennials, ages 18 to 34, tend to view Snowden as a champion of privacy.


Ironic, given that what he did was take secret/private information and make it public. But just in case we weren't sure whether this is really about folks not actually having a clue what "privacy" really means:

Quote:
"It is unlikely this generation of digital natives will shed a fundamental commitment to the free exchange of information" even when they grow older, Romero wrote...


While the defense of Snowden's actions is always "The NSA is spying on us!!!", the vast majority of the actual data he stole and has been releasing is about legitimate intelligence operations. Which I suppose also highlights that as we get older we're more able to see through a paper thin justification for illegal actions. Well. Some of us.
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#12 Apr 23 2015 at 3:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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As a conservative who wants the government out of your life, shouldn't you be more upset about how much your government is spying on you?
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#13 Apr 23 2015 at 3:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
As a conservative who wants the government out of your life, shouldn't you be more upset about how much your government is spying on you?



gbaji wrote:
While the defense of Snowden's actions is always "The NSA is spying on us!!!", the vast majority of the actual data he stole and has been releasing is about legitimate intelligence operations. Which I suppose also highlights that as we get older we're more able to see through a paper thin justification for illegal actions. Well. Some of us.
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#14 Apr 23 2015 at 4:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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No it's fine that you think that snowden's actions weren't justified,and he shouldn't have done it. However it did happen and now you know, so with that context.

As a conservative who wants the government out of your life, shouldn't you be more upset about how much your government is spying on you?
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#15 Apr 23 2015 at 4:08 PM Rating: Good
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
No it's fine that you think that snowden's actions weren't justified,and he shouldn't have done it. However it did happen and now you know, so with that context.

As a conservative who wants the government out of your life, shouldn't you be more upset about how much your government is spying on you?

Careful, there, buddy. If gbaji flinches any harder he's liable to knock the servers over.



(ZAM servers are in San Diego, right?)



EDIT: "flinches" makes more sense.

Edited, Apr 23rd 2015 5:52pm by Bijou
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#16 Apr 23 2015 at 5:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
No it's fine that you think that snowden's actions weren't justified,and he shouldn't have done it.


At least you think it's fine, as opposed to the OP being disappointed with it.

Quote:
As a conservative who wants the government out of your life, shouldn't you be more upset about how much your government is spying on you?


No. I think I'm exactly the correct amount of upset based on how much my government is spying on me. Which is to say, not much at all.


Let's not forget that the context here isn't "do I think my government should spy on me and how much", but "do I think what Snowden did was justified". I happen to think that people who praise Snowden out of a belief that he's somehow freed them from government spying, or even revealed any significant domestic spying by our government, just haven't paid much attention. As I said above (twice even!), the vast majority of the classified documents he's dumped have nothing to do with domestic spying, and mostly to do with legitimate intelligence operations by our government. Which puts his actions well into the "violation of national security" and "high treason" categories. Trying to defend that with the very very thin claims that he's really just blown the whistle on NSA domestic spying is not remotely legitimate IMO.

Blown the whistle on what exactly? Has anyone learned the details of a single actual instance of domestic spying from Snowden? All I've seen is very vague documents talking about potential sources of information, that frankly looked ludicrous to me when read. I honestly think it's the kind of document you'd write as a honeypot to catch idiots who think they're looking for "proof" of spying. As an old boss of mine would say: The documents are "content free".


As to actual government spying? Yeah. I don't like it when it's aimed at our own citizens. Here's the thing though. I'm far more concerned about overt uses of government power to compel me to do things than I am about covert uses of said power that don't actually affect me in any way at all. In the grand scheme of "things I worry about", the NSA having a complete record of my phone or internet metadata history ranks far far below just about every other domestic spending program the US government currently engages in. It's a matter of putting things in perspective.

Edited, Apr 23rd 2015 4:43pm by gbaji
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#17 Apr 23 2015 at 6:16 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Ironic, given that what he did was take secret/private information and make it public. But just in case we weren't sure whether this is really about folks not actually having a clue what "privacy" really means:


Jesus, how retarded can you be?

He's referred to as "a champion of "[the public's] right to privacy" not the "privacy" of un-elected bureaucrats of what is ostensibly a democracy to conduct operations against it's law abiding electors in the service of their private agendas. Snowden wasn't complaining about utilizing intelligence information about terror cells against terrorists. Nor, in fact, Is Russia.

Edited, Apr 23rd 2015 8:19pm by Timelordwho
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#18 Apr 23 2015 at 6:42 PM Rating: Default
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I haven't heard a single person complaining about the US stopping people planning to leave the country and fight ISIS. I don't think people connected the dots yet. Good luck finding a country that doesn't spy on their citizens.

#19 Apr 23 2015 at 6:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Almalieque wrote:
I haven't heard a single person complaining about the US stopping people planning to leave the country and fight ISIS. I don't think people connected the dots yet. Good luck finding a country that doesn't spy on their citizens.



The fact that you accept it as a status quo makes me a sad panda. Honestly, it makes more sad than Gbaji's posts ( because I am virtually certain that he sometimes argues for the sake of arguing ).


Edited, Apr 23rd 2015 8:49pm by angrymnk
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#20 Apr 23 2015 at 6:49 PM Rating: Good
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#21 Apr 23 2015 at 7:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Timelordwho wrote:
Quote:
Ironic, given that what he did was take secret/private information and make it public. But just in case we weren't sure whether this is really about folks not actually having a clue what "privacy" really means:


Jesus, how retarded can you be?

He's referred to as "a champion of "[the public's] right to privacy"...


Why? What privacy of yours did he protect? See, this is the problem. That's what many people say about him, but when you actually look at what he's doing, it's not remotely close to the truth. He's mostly disseminating information about legitimate legal foreign intelligence operations. Which may be embarrassing to the US to have released to the public, and certainly damaging to ongoing intelligence operations, but in no way are those things "illegal", and releasing them to the public in no way protects any right to privacy.

My whole point is that the assumption that his actions were about championing privacy rights is complete BS.

Quote:
...not the "privacy" of un-elected bureaucrats of what is ostensibly a democracy to conduct operations against it's law abiding electors in the service of their private agendas. Snowden wasn't complaining about utilizing intelligence information about terror cells against terrorists. Nor, in fact, Is Russia.


Let's drop the question of mental retardation and stick to "did you read the linked article?"

Quote:
From Moscow, Snowden continues to disseminate information about the U.S. and its allies. In February, he made public that the Israeli, American and British intelligence services were coordinating efforts to track the activities of leaders in the Islamic Republic of Iran because of suspicions about that country's nuclear weapons program, Haaretz reported.



In what way does this protect your privacy? Seriously. We can debate what he was "complaining" about, but his actual actions have mostly been about revealing stuff like this. Which is not about protecting privacy and a lot about harming the national security of the US and other allied nations. You can't hand wave away this sort of thing by saying "but he's a champion of privacy!!!". That's complete BS.

Edited, Apr 23rd 2015 6:18pm by gbaji
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#22 Apr 23 2015 at 7:36 PM Rating: Good
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angrymnk wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
I haven't heard a single person complaining about the US stopping people planning to leave the country and fight ISIS. I don't think people connected the dots yet. Good luck finding a country that doesn't spy on their citizens.



The fact that you accept it as a status quo makes me a sad panda. Honestly, it makes more sad than Gbaji's posts ( because I am virtually certain that he sometimes argues for the sake of arguing ).


Edited, Apr 23rd 2015 8:49pm by angrymnk
This is an international status quo for a reason. People who think life can carry on without government surveillance, given the Internet and it's capabilities are living in a fantasy world. If the government discussed every single attack or scenario that is ongoing to the public, people would live out of fear. Nobody cares about what you ate for dinner. This is just like South Park when Cartman thought he was being spied on. You're simply not that important.
#23 Apr 23 2015 at 8:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Almalieque wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
I haven't heard a single person complaining about the US stopping people planning to leave the country and fight ISIS. I don't think people connected the dots yet. Good luck finding a country that doesn't spy on their citizens.



The fact that you accept it as a status quo makes me a sad panda. Honestly, it makes more sad than Gbaji's posts ( because I am virtually certain that he sometimes argues for the sake of arguing ).


Edited, Apr 23rd 2015 8:49pm by angrymnk
This is an international status quo for a reason. People who think life can carry on without government surveillance, given the Internet and it's capabilities are living in a fantasy world. If the government discussed every single attack or scenario that is ongoing to the public, people would live out of fear. Nobody cares about what you ate for dinner. This is just like South Park when Cartman thought he was being spied on. You're simply not that important.


...wow. It is always amazing what good propaganda will do to a brain. Granted, yours may have not been fully functional to begin with, but it is still damn impressive. I am not even sure whether I should point out that the government and useful retards like yourself trying to defend omnipresent surveillance do nothing but drum up fear to live out ( it is the commies, it is the pot, its teh terrorists, its the occupy.. and whatever other fear du jour is currently popular ).

Here is my question. I understand why the government does it ( power, money, power and chicks ). Why do you do it? Are you slow?
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#24 Apr 23 2015 at 8:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Almalieque wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
[quote=Almalieque]I haven't heard a single person complaining about the US stopping people planning to leave the country and fight ISIS. I don't think people connected the dots yet. Good luck finding a country that doesn't spy on their citizens.



The fact that you accept it as a status quo makes me a sad panda. Honestly, it makes more sad than Gbaji's posts ( because I am virtually certain that he sometimes argues for the sake of arguing ).

Nobody cares about what you ate for dinner.


I will tell you a story from the old country. There once was a guy under the watchful eye of the secret police. They were trying to make him sign a loyalty oath so that he would snitch on others. Do you know how they eventually broke him? After years of surveillance and daily oddities like re-shuffled books when he came back home, the officer leading his case went to him and said something along the lines of "My friend, we already know everything about you, we even know how many spoons of sugar you put in your tea."

What I eat matters. Me being left the **** alone matters. If you want to expose yourself 24/7, be me guest; but don't make me do so as well.

Edited, Apr 23rd 2015 10:20pm by angrymnk

Edited, Apr 23rd 2015 10:24pm by angrymnk
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#25 Apr 23 2015 at 8:21 PM Rating: Good
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angrymnk wrote:
we already know everything about you, we even know how many spoons of sure you put in your tea


What is sure and why was he putting it in his tea? Smiley: smile
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#26 Apr 23 2015 at 8:22 PM Rating: Decent
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TirithRR wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
we already know everything about you, we even know how many spoons of sure you put in your tea


What is sure and why was he putting it in his tea? Smiley: smile


Sug'aaaah:>

Edited, Apr 23rd 2015 10:22pm by angrymnk
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