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RNC Chicago passes resolution regarding historyFollow

#1 Aug 19 2014 at 10:08 PM Rating: Good
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Larry Krieger wants to make US history pretty and safe!

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LATimes wrote:
The College Board has taken the additional step of releasing a sample AP U.S. history test to demonstrate the inclusiveness of its approach. But Krieger, for one, isn't satisfied. He paged through it last week with Newsweek, settling on a series of questions keyed to a famous 1890 photograph by Jacob Riis of squalid conditions in a New York tenement.

One question asked is "Conditions like those shown in the image contributed most directly to which of the following?" The correct answer is, "An increase in Progressive reform activity."


Kreiger comments, "That’s historically true but note that progressives are going to be the heroes in this narrative."


Here is the photo referenced above:
Screenshot
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#2 Aug 20 2014 at 12:14 AM Rating: Good
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I gotta stop reading upsetting stories like this right before bed.

Luckily, Larry Krieger isn't actually anybody. Unfortunately, the RNC has generally the same view on history that he does, and they are somebody.
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#3 Aug 20 2014 at 1:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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His first 3 words are "that's historically true" so that should be the end of it, it's about history and what happened.
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#4 Aug 20 2014 at 3:16 AM Rating: Good
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
Larry Krieger wants to make US history pretty and safe!
...or ugly and incomplete.
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#5 Aug 20 2014 at 4:53 AM Rating: Good
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Republicans hate being called stupid, but come the **** on. I can't even find a way to express the disgust I'm feeling with that article. It's like every minute something new pops up to indicate some massive and unstoppable downward spiral in humanity, particularly, and almost exclusively in Americans.
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#6 Aug 20 2014 at 5:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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That same apartment rents for $2300/month now.

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#7 Aug 20 2014 at 6:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
LATimes wrote:
One question asked is "Conditions like those shown in the image contributed most directly to which of the following?" The correct answer is, "An increase in Progressive reform activity."


Kreiger comments, "That’s historically true but note that progressives are going to be the heroes in this narrative."

Here is the photo referenced above:
Screenshot


Conservative values could have been the heroes if those immigrants had just gone to the textile factory next door and demanded more money. Who needs labor reform and government regulation when the free market was working so well for them?

Edited, Aug 20th 2014 7:55am by Jophiel
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#8 Aug 20 2014 at 7:26 AM Rating: Good
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Kreiger wrote:
That’s historically true
That's the end of that, then. Good game.
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#9 Aug 20 2014 at 9:34 AM Rating: Good
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His first 3 words are "that's historically true" so that should be the end of it, it's about history and what happened.

Don't be silly. He's wrong and an idiot, but it's absolutely possible to make a ludicrous historical narrative that's completely true, just incomplete. If every question on the test had a pro socialism answer and the only Republicans mentioned where the ones who tried to bang teenage boys, he'd have a point. I mean it would be really easy to make that sort of test, but it's probably good to also include Republicans who lie about hiking the Appalachian trail to bang foreigners.
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#10 Aug 20 2014 at 10:35 AM Rating: Good
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As long as they have some questions where capitalists are the heroes, it's fair and balanced right?

No socialist or commie heroes allowed, though.
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#11 Aug 20 2014 at 12:31 PM Rating: Decent
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As long as they have some questions where capitalists are the heroes, it's fair and balanced right?

Well, you'd probably want it to be based on fact, so that one would be a stretch.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#12 Aug 20 2014 at 5:05 PM Rating: Good
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Conservatives love to believe in unimpeachable American exceptionalism, yet also believe that America before progressive movements was somehow even MORE super-great. You can't have it both ways.
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#13 Aug 21 2014 at 7:07 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
Well, you'd probably want it to be based on fact,
Considering most history books still paint Columbus as a discoverer, I'd wager that facts aren't all that important.
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#14 Aug 21 2014 at 7:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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History is a lie agreed upon.

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#15 Aug 21 2014 at 9:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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trickybeck wrote:
Conservatives love to believe in unimpeachable American exceptionalism, yet also believe that America before progressive movements was somehow even MORE super-great. You can't have it both ways.
We're still the best, but only partly as awesome as we used to be.
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#16 Aug 21 2014 at 10:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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#17 Aug 21 2014 at 2:36 PM Rating: Default
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
His first 3 words are "that's historically true" so that should be the end of it, it's about history and what happened.


His issue isn't about whether something is true, but the bias with regard to what is chosen to be presented/tested and the surrounding context. In some cases, it's about the wording. For example, the question highlighted above has some awkward language. Why ask what conditions in the photo "contributed most directly to"? That's a strange wording. A better way to ask the question would be to use the word "resulted", not "contributed". Resulted means you're asking an actual historical question: "What happened as a result of this condition?". The word contributed suggests some kind of positive action, which is just strange in this context. So maybe they're just poorly worded, but the argument being made by conservatives is that the wording is designed intentionally to inject the idea of intent rather than just cause/effect.

It also has the potential to support the bizarre cart before the horse idea that if you start with the goal of "progressive reform" the way to contribute to the cause of achieving that is to either create impoverished conditions or create the perception of such. And frankly, there's evidence in some social movements that support this being done by the left (just look at what's going on in Ferguson right now for an example). The idea that the way to get what you want is to be a victim (or be perceived as a victim) has become commonplace among the left. So yeah, that's why that wording bothers conservatives.

It's also helpful to read the actual article, and not the editorial slamming it. Far more information about the full context of the complaints is available. It wasn't just that question, but all the questions in that section. The next question asked about the cause of the conditions, and the answer was basically just "low wages", which again is technically correct, but fails to address *why* these men earned such low wages. Which sorta echoes the modern liberal argument for higher wages for everyone, while ignoring the fact that wage *should* vary based on the value of the labor in the workplace. And let's face it, "cause they had low wages" is a crappy answer for an AP level test.

The final question in that section directly ties "advocates for individuals such as those shown in the image" with those who believe that "government should act to eliminate the worst abuses of industrial society". So not only does this leave the student with the assumption that low wages are "abuse", but that if you feel for people earning low wages, you must support active government intervention. And, just in case the "liberals care for the poor while conservatives don't" angle wasn't presented strongly enough, one of the wrong answers to the question was: "Capitalism free of government regulation would improve social conditions”. So the test blatantly assumes that anyone who believes that capitalism will improve social conditions are *not* people who care about individuals like those in the image. So, of course, anyone teaching their students to pass the test would have to teach them that capitalism doesn't improve people's social conditions (despite massive evidence that the opposite is true).

That's biased as ****. And biased specifically to influence the students views of current political issues, under the guise of teaching and testing them about historical events. So yeah, that's a problem.

Edited, Aug 21st 2014 1:41pm by gbaji
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#18 Aug 21 2014 at 2:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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His issue isn't about whether something is true, but the bias with regard to what is chosen to be presented/tested and the surrounding context. In some cases, it's about the wording. For example, the question highlighted above has some awkward language. Why ask what conditions in the photo "contributed most directly to"? That's a strange wording. A better way to ask the question would be to use the word "resulted", not "contributed". Resulted means you're asking an actual historical question: "What happened as a result of this condition?". The word contributed suggests some kind of positive action, which is just strange in this context

No, ******, "Resulted" would indicate the conditions were the sole cause. For example, your post "resulted" in my mocking laughter. "Contributed" indicates that the conditions were a factor in a certain result. For example your post "contributed" to my feelings of superiority relative to GOP voters.

Understand?
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#19 Aug 21 2014 at 3:02 PM Rating: Default
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Smasharoo wrote:
His issue isn't about whether something is true, but the bias with regard to what is chosen to be presented/tested and the surrounding context. In some cases, it's about the wording. For example, the question highlighted above has some awkward language. Why ask what conditions in the photo "contributed most directly to"? That's a strange wording. A better way to ask the question would be to use the word "resulted", not "contributed". Resulted means you're asking an actual historical question: "What happened as a result of this condition?". The word contributed suggests some kind of positive action, which is just strange in this context

No, ******, "Resulted" would indicate the conditions were the sole cause.


No. It would indicate that the effect was the sole (or in this case "most direct") result. Remember we're asking for the effect "resulting" from the cause, not the cause "contributing" to the effect. The problem with the word contributed is that it's used backwards relative to the question. If you started with a question about progressive reform and asked which things contributed to an increase in said reform, pointing to the conditions in the photo would be correct because it's one of many things that contributed to the thing you are talking about. But when you start with the image and go the other direction, you are looking at the "result" from the conditions in the image (or "most direct result"). And that answer is "increased progressive reform".

It's about the directionality of the wording.

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Yes, I do. You don't though.
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#20 Aug 21 2014 at 3:47 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
No. It would indicate that the effect was the sole (or in this case "most direct") result. Remember we're asking for the effect "resulting" from the cause, not the cause "contributing" to the effect. The problem with the word contributed is that it's used backwards relative to the question. If you started with a question about progressive reform and asked which things contributed to an increase in said reform, pointing to the conditions in the photo would be correct because it's one of many things that contributed to the thing you are talking about. But when you start with the image and go the other direction, you are looking at the "result" from the conditions in the image (or "most direct result"). And that answer is "increased progressive reform".

It's about the directionality of the wording.

Quote:
Understand?


Yes, I do. You don't though.


Wow, that is quite the gymnastic logic. Almost impressive.

Nah, just kidding, you look like an ******* and a ****** when you post things like this!
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#21 Aug 21 2014 at 4:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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No. It would indicate that the effect was the sole (or in this case "most direct") result. Remember we're asking for the effect "resulting" from the cause, not the cause "contributing" to the effect. The problem with the word contributed is that it's used backwards relative to the question.

Nope, it's worded perfectly. Amazingly, a test written and reviewed by dozens of people with advanced degrees *somehow* managed to be more correct than your wild fucking guess.

Amazing.

Edited, Aug 21st 2014 6:31pm by Smasharoo
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#22 Aug 21 2014 at 4:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Short version: Boy, the turn of the twentieth century sure made free market principles look like crap for most people. We should totally fight against that narrative though since those principles make up a good chunk of our ideology.
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#23 Aug 21 2014 at 4:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji can't make the distinction between "unrestrained capitalism can improve the life of the working class" and "unrestrained capitalism will improve the life of the working class".


And of course gbaji completely ignores "unrestrained capitalism can result in the working class being treated as virtual slaves". He seem blissfully unaware that that is the situation depicted in the picture.
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#24 Aug 21 2014 at 11:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wait, wait, WAIT!!!!!

You could see that?
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#25 Aug 22 2014 at 7:28 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
Amazingly, a test written and reviewed by dozens of people with advanced degrees *somehow* managed to be more correct than your wild fucking guess.
But do they know any 80 year olds?
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#26 Aug 22 2014 at 8:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Gbaji is friends with twenty late-19th century immigrant laborers and they all agreed with him.
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