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#77 Aug 18 2014 at 8:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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We should play Madlibs with it.
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#78 Aug 18 2014 at 8:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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#79 Aug 18 2014 at 10:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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EDIT: wth? Looks like I missed an entire page before posting. Quick glance shows everything here already mentioned.


Omegavegeta wrote:
You can flee until shots from a gun change your mind about fleeing & you decide to surrender instead. Especially when they hit you.


According to the initial autopsy, all of the shots entered from the front. That pretty much rules out fleeing. The witness that gave the account of fleeing just happened to be the guy that was there with Michael Brown. The same guy that was also with Mike Brown during the robbery. That doesn't mean he's lying..oh wait, all the shots entered from the front..yep, he's lying.

Note, I'm not in anyway defending ( or accusing) the cop, as I have no idea what happened. I wasn't there.


Some assertions do seem rather odd to me though. The whole "The cop grabbed Mike from inside his cab." doesn't make any sense. He'd be at an immediate disadvantage due to not being able to use his legs or maneuver. Then add to that Mike Brown's sheer size and it doesn't even remotely sound like something a trained cop would do.


The cop not knowing about the robbery also makes it seems at least somewhat plausible that Brown thought he was busted and jumped the cop. Then again, that also doesn't seem like something a normal person would do, so the autopsy would probably need to reveal mind altering drugs in Mike's system for that scenario to hold water.


I honestly think that it's quite plausible that he cop got into an altercation with a very large teen and freaked the **** out.


Edited, Aug 19th 2014 12:33am by CoalHeart

Edited, Aug 19th 2014 12:34am by CoalHeart
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#80 Aug 18 2014 at 11:35 PM Rating: Good
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Kuwoobie wrote:
Unarmed black teenager is murdered by authority figure after alleged petty theft. Community is outraged. Ignorant white people attempt to rationalize justification for the murder. Peaceful protests are met with tear gas, rubber bullets and armored vehicles. Riots and looting happen. Riots and looting are wildly exaggerated.

Did I leave out any details?



Quote:
Unarmed black teenager is murdered
Unarmed? Yes, Black? Yes, Murdered? We don't know that yet.


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alleged petty theft
Alleged? Nope, it's him. Petty Theft? Nope, straight up robbery ( he used force).


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Community is outraged
100% true. What community wouldn't be?


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Ignorant white people
Racist.


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attempt to rationalize justification for the murder.
Not proven as murder at this time.


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Peaceful protests are met with tear gas, rubber bullets and armored vehicles.
Original reaction was most certainly not "peaceful".


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Riots and looting happen
True. This was also the initial reaction.


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Riots and looting are wildly exaggerated.
No, they were really, really bad as folks are really, really mad.
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#81 Aug 19 2014 at 5:20 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
Running away is not really a good reason after a random stop.
Why was he running away backwards?


An eye witness has stated that he was running away while be shot at, stopped after a bullet grazed his arm, turned around and put his arms up in surrender before being peppered with bullets. The witness later filmed two police officers standing over the guy's corpse with her cellphone.
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#82 Aug 19 2014 at 6:51 AM Rating: Good
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Even if you think that the police officer was justified in shooting Michael Brown, just letting a shot to death body lie there without, you know, calling an ambulance for a few hours kind of goes against every protocol under the sun.

Cop "freaked the **** out" is probably exactly what happened. Then again, he's the one who tried to arrest a teenager for jaywalking. Smiley: glare
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#83 Aug 19 2014 at 7:37 AM Rating: Good
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A lot of people I've talked to about this seem really confused as to why people are protesting and rioting in Missouri. Before the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman incident, the response to this shooting would not have been nearly this explosive.

Before then, the idea that the justice system would do nothing about it was generally considered being pessimistic... and then George Zimmerman was acquitted... freed of all charges. We can now expect the officer who shot Michael Brown will not face any real disciplinary action, and people are sensing the great injustice in this. Whether the guy was white or black, or any other race-- he did not have the right to take the man's life so carelessly.

Another thing that kind of irks me is, had the killer not been a police officer, there would be significantly less debate over this. Being a police officer does not give you license to brutally murder an unarmed man who is running away from you.

The other major thing that bothers me about these kinds of story is: Had the officer that killed Michael Brown, or George Zimmerman used a knife to kill their victims via stabbing and slashing, there would have undoubtedly been much less scrutiny and desperate attempts to justify both murders. Maybe the problem with the US is not so much that we have guns, but because we tend not to hold anyone accountable for how they use them.

It's like... "Did you hear about the guy how murdered 17 people yesterday?" Oh, that is terrible! "Yeah, he used a gun though lol." Oh ok then, it's not so bad now. Second Amendment and all that.

Scenario A: Man lures 17 year old girl into his garage and murders her with a cork *****. "Self defense!" the man cries. "Yeah right, you sick ******* freak." replies the police.

Scenario B: Man lures 17 year old girl into his garage and murders her with a hunting rifle. "Self defense!" the man cries. "Oh, alright then."
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#84 Aug 19 2014 at 7:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kuwoobie wrote:
An eye witness has stated that he was running away while be shot at, stopped after a bullet grazed his arm, turned around and put his arms up in surrender before being peppered with bullets.
The autopsy contradicts that, though.
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#85 Aug 19 2014 at 7:50 AM Rating: Good
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Kuwoobie wrote:
A lot of people I've talked to about this seem really confused as to why people are protesting and rioting in Missouri. Before the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman incident, the response to this shooting would not have been nearly this explosive.
The LA Riots following the Rodney King beating would not lead me to this conclusion.

The big deal with the Zimmerman case was that Zimmerman was not a cop, just some joe-citizen that went all vigilante. This not long after a controversial 'stand your ground' law was put into effect in FL.
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#86 Aug 19 2014 at 8:34 AM Rating: Decent
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They tried to destroy Los Angeles of all places, and nobody even died in that event. Ahh, them's the good old days.
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#87 Aug 19 2014 at 11:13 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Kuwoobie wrote:
A lot of people I've talked to about this seem really confused as to why people are protesting and rioting in Missouri. Before the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman incident, the response to this shooting would not have been nearly this explosive.
The LA Riots following the Rodney King beating would not lead me to this conclusion.



That was LA though.
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#88 Aug 19 2014 at 12:18 PM Rating: Good
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Kuwoobie wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Kuwoobie wrote:
A lot of people I've talked to about this seem really confused as to why people are protesting and rioting in Missouri. Before the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman incident, the response to this shooting would not have been nearly this explosive.
The LA Riots following the Rodney King beating would not lead me to this conclusion.



That was LA though.

Trayvon Martin was shot in Florida.



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#89 Aug 19 2014 at 12:22 PM Rating: Good
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Alleged? Nope, it's him. Petty Theft? Nope, straight up robbery ( he used force).

Great. Not even vaguely remotely relevant unless the guy who killed him knew about it. He didn't. Not disputed. If a guy had shot John Wayne Gacy in the face during one of his clown performances without knowledge of his other activities that wouldn't be especially relevant, would they?
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#90 Aug 19 2014 at 1:19 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
Alleged? Nope, it's him. Petty Theft? Nope, straight up robbery ( he used force).

Great. Not even vaguely remotely relevant unless the guy who killed him knew about it. He didn't. Not disputed. If a guy had shot John Wayne Gacy in the face during one of his clown performances without knowledge of his other activities that wouldn't be especially relevant, would they?


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#91 Aug 19 2014 at 2:30 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
Alleged? Nope, it's him. Petty Theft? Nope, straight up robbery ( he used force).

Great. Not even vaguely remotely relevant unless the guy who killed him knew about it. He didn't. Not disputed. If a guy had shot John Wayne Gacy in the face during one of his clown performances without knowledge of his other activities that wouldn't be especially relevant, would they?


I wasn't making any claims as to it's relevance, just listing facts. However, since you went there, consider this. Cop pulls up next to two teenagers. Cop doesn't know they robbed a store, but the Teenagers DID KNOW.


That couldn't have possibly influenced their actions now could it?


Not saying it did, but to say it couldn't matter at all is ridiculous.
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#92 Aug 19 2014 at 2:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Not saying it did, but to say it couldn't matter at all is ridiculous.

Nope. It couldn't matter. At all. The only reason it exists as a topic is to placate racists who were "sure he must have done something" Now there's something to hang the "thug that deserved it" dog whistle ******** on. It wouldn't have mattered if the kid just raped a busload of child nuns or if he had just won 40 congressional medals of honor. Nothing that happened prior to him being shot to death informs that circumstance. It's not "more ok" to have shot an evil kid than it is to have shot a saint.

Get it? Also the idea that he stole some cigars, so he was going to attack a cop car requires a special level of stupid I can't really comprehend effectively to believe.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#93 Aug 19 2014 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
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It could have, but if Officer Friendly was just saying, "Hey you kids, get off the street, that's jaywalking!" any kid who had just stolen something probably would have tripped over themselves to obey and not draw any further attention.

At least that's how I react.

I ran a red light by about five seconds a while ago. Panic! You can bet your britches I went no more than one mile over the speed limit for the rest of that journey. (Thank goodness it was not one of the traffic lights with a camera in it.)
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#94 Aug 19 2014 at 2:48 PM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:

At least that's how I react.


That's cause you aren't a black criminal. He would have just been like "**** the police!" And pulled out his gun sideways.

Edit:
**** filter could at least keep the punctuation intact.

****, really? I hope they are seriously looking at this filter...

Edited, Aug 19th 2014 5:27pm by TirithRR
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#95 Aug 19 2014 at 3:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:
Not saying it did, but to say it couldn't matter at all is ridiculous.

Nope. It couldn't matter. At all. The only reason it exists as a topic is to placate racists who were "sure he must have done something" Now there's something to hang the "thug that deserved it" dog whistle **** on. It wouldn't have mattered if the kid just raped a busload of child nuns or if he had just won 40 congressional medals of honor. Nothing that happened prior to him being shot to death informs that circumstance. It's not "more ok" to have shot an evil kid than it is to have shot a saint.

Get it? Also the idea that he stole some cigars, so he was going to attack a cop car requires a special level of stupid I can't really comprehend effectively to believe.


No, it exists because the cop is going to claim self defense. He's going to use the robbery video, where Brown is seen shoving, grabbing and otherwise being very violent to lend plausibility to the narrative that Brown attacked him.


Is it proof that Brown attacked him? Of course not, it is damning enough to make such a scenario plausible in the minds of Jurors? Of course it is.


Just to make sure that you, as you told me "Get it?". The cop isn't going to go with "Brown was a black thug that deserved to die." nonsense. He's going to go with "Brown attacked me, so I defended myself, and here's some evidence to support that Brown is indeed the type of person to do such a thing."


****, this isn't complicated.

Edited, Aug 19th 2014 6:04pm by CoalHeart
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#96 Aug 19 2014 at 3:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Probably won't be admissible. Shouldn't be, anyhow.
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#97 Aug 19 2014 at 4:34 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
Catwho wrote:

At least that's how I react.


That's cause you aren't a black criminal. He would have just been like "**** the police!" And pulled out his gun sideways.



Kinda off topic, but have you seen the movie Equilibrium? Some pretty cool "Gun Fu" in that one.
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#98 Aug 19 2014 at 4:37 PM Rating: Good
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CoalHeart wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
Catwho wrote:

At least that's how I react.


That's cause you aren't a black criminal. He would have just been like "**** the police!" And pulled out his gun sideways.



Kinda off topic, but have you seen the movie Equilibrium? Some pretty cool "Gun Fu" in that one.


I enjoyed the movie, and will usually tune in and watch it when it plays and I'm not doing anything.

Edit:
But my comment on the gun sideways was more the "gangster" way to hold it. Like in the movie Date Night when Steve Carell's character gets a gun pulled on him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDYC7d4FuCM

Edited, Aug 19th 2014 6:40pm by TirithRR
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#99 Aug 19 2014 at 5:58 PM Rating: Good
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Omegavegeta wrote:
I've seen multiple interviews with witnesses that described a struggle through the window of the officer's vehicle.


What you've seen is multiple interviews with just two witnesses. One of them was the robbery accomplice walking with Brown, and the other only appeared after the first one's account was splattered all over the news (so great potential for her modifying what she saw based on what she heard). It's telling that both accounts claim that Brown was shot in the back while fleeing the cop, but Brown's body has no bullet entry points in his back (or any indication he was shot while facing away from the shooter). So either they both managed to miss-see events in the exact same way, or she adjusted her version of events to match his.

So you're really just hearing one account. From a guy who was an accomplice to strong arm robbery and has every reason in the world to point the finger of blame at the police.

Quote:
I've seen no interviews where the witnesses described Michael Brown as instigating the struggle.


How on earth do you suppose a 6'4" 290lb man ends out face first halfway into a car door struggling with a police officer if all he ever did was try to avoid or escape the cop? Seriously. The entire claim that the cop reached out of the window and tried to pull Brown in is absurd as ****. A 5'9" person attempting that on someone so much bigger? And for what purpose? So as to ensure that the guy with no leverage or height or size or strength advantage is now in close proximity with the guy who has all of those things? It's far more likely that Brown chose to reach/climb into the car on top of the officer for some reason. We can speculate as to why, but it's hard to imagine that he could have been forced into such an advantageous (for him!) physical position by the officer.

Quote:
I've seen one where the witness states the cop "started it" by essentially giving Michael Brown and the witness **** for jaywalking, exchanging words with Brown, attempting to open his door which bounced back at him because he hit Brown with it being so close, the cop reaching out through the window and struggling with Brown, a shot being fired in the car, Brown fleeing while bleeding from a gunshot, & Brown being shot & shot at while fleeing and surrendering.


Again, the only witness who saw anything prior to Brown and the officer struggling in the car was Brown's friend. He's a poor witness at best. And even his story kinda skips past the whole "bounced back into the car" and to "Brown and cop struggling in the car" without really explaining how they got into that position. Also, the whole "shot while fleeing" bit doesn't work when none of the injuries indicate being shot from behind.

All of the physical evidence we've heard of so far points to someone who had just committed a robbery being accosted by a police officer, not realizing the cop didn't know about the robbery, he reacts violently to a cop whose guard is down (cause he doesn't realize this is a robber suspect), gets the drop on the cop, a struggle ensues, and the cop shoots him in the car. Brown backs out of the car, and the officer pursues him, ordering him to surrender. Brown chooses to charge the cop again rather than give up, and the cop fires several more rounds at him, hitting him in the right arm and then in the head, finally killing him.

This is a far more likely scenario than the alternative. It just doesn't match up with a "racist cop kills black teen" narrative that so many want to talk about.


Quote:
That doesn't mean Brown didn't "start it", but it'll be the officer's word against the witness's. Multiple witnesses have stated they saw Michael shot multiple times while running away & attempting to surrender.


And the forensic evidence. Which, I suspect, just like in the Martin case, will turn out to tell a very different story than that being claimed in the media. But maybe you're right. We should just not bother to learn from the past examples of rushing to judgement in cases like this. Cause that works so well.

Quote:
Even if Brown was the "bad guy" throughout most of this, the cop didn't have the right to execute an unarmed man who was surrendering.


Correct. But that kinda hinges on whether he was actually surrendering, right? You're taking one person's word as gospel truth. Maybe you shouldn't do that.
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#100 Aug 19 2014 at 6:33 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
Alleged? Nope, it's him. Petty Theft? Nope, straight up robbery ( he used force).

Great. Not even vaguely remotely relevant unless the guy who killed him knew about it.


Wrong. It's relevant because the guy who committed the robbery knew about it, and that would certainly influence his interaction with a police officer 10 minutes later.
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#101 Aug 19 2014 at 6:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Samira wrote:
Probably won't be admissible. Shouldn't be, anyhow.


If the defense rests on "Brown was a kind and gentle soul who would never assault anyone, so the cop must have fired for no reason at all", then it's massively relevant and would be admissible (well, should be).
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