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#152 Aug 21 2014 at 1:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Maybe Hannah? Have you taught her about why people lose fights with the ATF yet?

Not per se, but I think "Don't be an asshole" probably covered it.
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#153 Aug 21 2014 at 2:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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#154 Aug 21 2014 at 3:47 PM Rating: Decent
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I can think of some weapons manufacturing companies that would benefit from an arms race between the ATF and the Lone Star state.
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#155 Aug 22 2014 at 1:29 AM Rating: Good
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They should have just used some of those militarized bulldozers. Just roll up and give em an hour or two before you start flattening the place. Edit: for the freedom ranch place.

Edited, Aug 22nd 2014 9:30am by Aethien
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#156 Aug 22 2014 at 7:29 AM Rating: Good
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Edit: for the freedom ranch place.
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#157 Aug 22 2014 at 8:17 AM Rating: Good
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Mmmm, freedom ranch. Now I want buffalo wings...
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#158 Aug 22 2014 at 8:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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#159 Aug 22 2014 at 8:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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#160 Aug 22 2014 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
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Some updates.

1. No, Officer Wilson's eye orbital was not smashed. He did have a bit of swelling where the door smacked him, though.

2. Ferguson PD has no police report because they handed it over to the St. Louis County PD to file. They approved it 10 days after the incident occurred. This might be standard procedure in a man-down situation (and makes sense), but they could have said this a while ago when the FOIA requests were filed to them.

3. National Guard has been recalled since the situation has de-intensified a bit.

4. Officer GFY has been put on administrative leave without pay pending further investigation. His great sin was cursing on camera, it seems. Not threatening journalists, oh no, just getting caught doing it.

Edited, Aug 22nd 2014 11:39am by Catwho
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#161 Aug 23 2014 at 10:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Ferguson PD has no police report because they handed it over to the St. Louis County PD to file. They approved it 10 days after the incident occurred. This might be standard procedure in a man-down situation (and makes sense), but they could have said this a while ago when the FOIA requests were filed to them.

Harder than you'd think once the FOIA process starts.
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#162 Aug 26 2014 at 5:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
I'm just pointing out that this perception is false. This is the gear that police would use regardless of the situation

It's not. It's recent. Here's police during the Rodney King riots. Even the armored guys were clearly police, no jungle camo, no military fatigues. You want to know who was dressed like this? The National Guard -- i.e. the military. Not the police, the military.


Yeah. Want to know when that started to change? In 1997 after the police found themselves woefully outgunned by some bank robbers in LA (which is 5 years after the King riots). From that point on, all police departments in all major metro areas have endeavored to obtain body armor and equipment for dealing with those sorts of situations. Not just to have them, but to be able to rapidly deploy police units outfitted with such gear.

Quote:
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We can debate how they got the equipment

There is no debate.


Ok. Bad wording on my part. My point is that arguing about how they got the gear isn't the point. It's not like the military just sold police departments a bunch of surplus stuff and the police said "well golly gee. We don't know what to do with this stuff, but it's really cool, so we'll use it". The police were actively working to obtain such gear all along, and the availability of a bunch of it as the Iraq and Afghanistan wars wound down just provided an opportunity to do so.

Look at the one photo with the heavily armed and armored cop. Care to guess what conflict that was surplus from? This is not new. He's wearing Vietnam era gear. The National Guard units were wearing more modern gear for the time period. Nothing new there. So guess what? The armored cops of today are wearing gear appropriate to the surplus gear available today. And in 15 years, if we don't have any more major conflicts, they'll still be wearing that same gear. And the people then will point to the old outdated stuff the cops are wearing and contrast it to the armored waldo's the military and NG units are wearing, just like you did in the King photos.

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The question is whether it's fair to blame the police for using that equipment in this case, and I honestly don't think it is.

That may be but making specious comparisons to Sandy Hook doesn't help your argument.


It was just the first thing that popped in my mind of a scene where there were tons of cops in similar gear, yet at the time they were walking around where we could see them on TV, there was no armed threat of any kind at all. The lone gunman had taken his own life hours earlier, yet we still saw armored police vehicles and cops running around in full tactical gear. Yet in that case, the images were interpreted as reassurances to the public that the police where there to protect them, while in this case it's somehow about the cops being too geared up?

Objectively, it makes no sense to complain about the level of gear worn by police forces actively involved in a situation where they could be shot at any moment (and will almost certainly have things thrown at them), but no one blinks when they're walking around doing nothing more than securing an area hours after any possibility of violence has ended. It just seems backwards to me. I get that this is about inflaming the "violent cop" aspect to this. But I really do feel like it's a contrived thing. If you want to get involved in violence with the cops, you can always do so. They aren't the ones choosing to be out there. The rioters are. They'd gladly put their gear up and stay at home if the consequence wasn't people being injured or killed, store windows being smashed, buildings being burned, cars being damaged, etc. The police have no choice but to be there. The people rioting (peacefully protesting!) do.


Want the violence to stop? Everyone stay home. Don't march around town at night. Don't throw bricks and bottles at the cops. Heck. If the protesters don't protest, then there wont be any cops there at all. One side is creating and sustaining this conflict, and it's not the Ferguson police department.
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#163 Aug 26 2014 at 6:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Yeah. Want to know when that started to change? In 1997 after the police found themselves woefully outgunned by some bank robbers in LA (which is 5 years after the King riots).

Not really. It mainly exploded after 9/11 and the expansion of the federal program. Again, we're not talking "A city should have a well equipped SWAT team for special situations" here but rather the entire police force dressed as soldiers and cruising around in mine resistant armored vehicles for crowd control purposes. One is an appropriate response to a couple well armed bank robbers, the other isn't.

[Edit: Prior to 9/11, the major driving force wasn't scary bank robbers with AR-15s but rather the overhyped drug war. At least that was a little more under control. Once police forces started getting daydreams about fighting off Al'Qaeda terrorists at the Twin Pines Shopping Mall, it was all systems go, full speed ahead]

Quote:
It's not like the military just sold police departments a bunch of surplus stuff and the police said "well golly gee. We don't know what to do with this stuff, but it's really cool, so we'll use it".

That's pretty much exactly what's been happening. Also, the program has a "use or lose" style provision which incentivizes finding reasons to use these new toys regardless of how appropriate it is.

Quote:
Yet in that case, the images were interpreted as reassurances to the public that the police where there to protect them, while in this case it's somehow about the cops being too geared up?

It's pretty telling that you think this is actually an argument.

Edited, Aug 26th 2014 7:32pm by Jophiel
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#164 Aug 27 2014 at 12:14 PM Rating: Decent
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It's not like the military just sold police departments a bunch of surplus stuff and the police said "well golly gee. We don't know what to do with this stuff, but it's really cool, so we'll use it".

Actually it's *exactly* like that. Funny when you assume something is true and it turns out the opposite is factually correct, or as you refer to it: "thinking".
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#165 Aug 27 2014 at 4:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:
It's not like the military just sold police departments a bunch of surplus stuff and the police said "well golly gee. We don't know what to do with this stuff, but it's really cool, so we'll use it".

Actually it's *exactly* like that. Funny when you assume something is true and it turns out the opposite is factually correct, or as you refer to it: "thinking".


My point was that the police departments were already looking for this kind of equipment prior to it becoming widely (and cheaply) available via military surplus. What was preventing departments from having armored vehicles and tactical gear in 1998 wasn't a lack of interest or need, but the cost and availability. I'm countering the suggestion that the military somehow forced the police to take this stuff even though they didn't want it, didn't need it, and didn't know how to use it.

If this same gear had been available to police departments in the late 90s for the same price, they would have obtained it then. It's not that the police departments changed, or that we've made them "more militarized" (or our society as a whole is more militaristic) somehow as a result of evil George Bush and his war on terror.

Edited, Aug 27th 2014 3:47pm by gbaji
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#166 Aug 27 2014 at 5:12 PM Rating: Excellent
gbaji wrote:
It's not that the police departments changed,
They have.


gbaji wrote:
or that we've made them "more militarized"
We have.

gbaji wrote:
(or our society as a whole is more militaristic)
It is.


gbaji wrote:
somehow as a result of evil George Bush and his war on terror.
It is (partially).

Funny how your amazing observational skill missed all that though.Smiley: rolleyes

EDIT: Forgot the snark.

Edited, Aug 27th 2014 5:33pm by Bijou
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#167 Aug 27 2014 at 5:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
I'm countering the suggestion that the military somehow forced the police to take this stuff

Nobody said that...
Quote:
a result of evil George Bush and his war on terror.

...or that

I guess debates are easier to win when you just make up the other side as you go along.

"But you said 9/11!" Gbaji pouts. I did, and I was referring to the nation at large and the same mindset that gave us towns that felt the need to post the "Threat Level" on billboards and the sincere belief that the Harper Hills County Fair was a potential Al'Qaeda target for their next attack. Which was the real spur for police departments requesting this stuff and the DoD distributing it. Not "But... but... LA bank robbers! And Sandy Hook!"
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#168 Aug 27 2014 at 7:15 PM Rating: Decent
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My point was that the police departments were already looking for this kind of equipment prior to it becoming widely (and cheaply) available via military surplus.

No, your point was that the post 9/11 changes that removes essentially every barrier stiffer than a eunuch's member didn't lead to an excess of military style equipment in the hands of civilian law enforcement. Which was wrong. Because you were wrong. It is in no way complicated.

Your new story of your point being that it was demand from police departments that drove this change and not the massive increase in supply is fascinating considering your entire market philosophy relies on exactly the opposite being true. I mean, I realize you probably don't understand the contradiction, but you being stupid doesn't always make it less amusing.

You should probably proceed to Roger yourself rectally at this point, likely resulting in your untimely passing.

Good luck.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a whore. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#169 Aug 27 2014 at 8:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
"But you said 9/11!" Gbaji pouts. I did, and I was referring to the nation at large and the same mindset that gave us towns that felt the need to post the "Threat Level" on billboards and the sincere belief that the Harper Hills County Fair was a potential Al'Qaeda target for their next attack. Which was the real spur for police departments requesting this stuff and the DoD distributing it. Not "But... but... LA bank robbers! And Sandy Hook!"


And that's where we disagree though. On two things (at least):

1. That the events of 9/11 and/or terrorism in general has had anything at all to do with police forces utilizing "military style" gear (except to the point that the WOT has made a good amount of relatively new surplus gear available of course). As I pointed out earlier, police forces have long geared themselves with whatever the latest military surplus was available to them. Some of the police in the Rodney King riots were wearing surplus Vietnam gear, for example. As times have gone by, the desire for police to have greater tactical capability has grown, but I simply don't agree that 9/11 was the cause of this. It's a process that has been going on for some time before 9/11.

2. That the type of equipment the police are wearing in any way at all justifies the response from the rioters and protest groups. As if the gear the cops are wearing causes them to riot, to burn down buildings and smash windows and throw rocks. This is denial of responsibility to the utmost degree. The violence is not occurring because of the police response, the police response is occurring because of the violence. And I for one and getting sick and tired of all these pundits rushing to whatever TV microphone is handy to blame the cops for what's going on. And yes, the whole "but they're so militarized" is just complete BS that is being used to aggravate the situation. Doubly so when it's coupled with the massive racial undertones already present.


As I've been saying all along, we can debate (or argue or whatever) *why* the police have that gear, but that's completely beside the point with regards to the violence going on. Focusing on what the cops are wearing is ignoring what's actually happening. And part of what's happening is groups of people actively egging on the violence in Ferguson. And one of the many tactics they're using is the whole "police are wearing military gear!!!". Um... So what? It does not matter what they wear. But that does not stop journalists from going out of their way to tell their viewers/readers/listeners that Ferguson looks like a 3rd world country because of the gear the police are wearing. Stop saying that guys. It looks like a third world country because you've got a bunch of thugs roaming the streets committing acts of violence and the people who could put a stop to it are hindered in doing so by a media that is just itching to blame them if they so much as point a finger at someone in a way that looks a bit rude.


That's the real problem in Ferguson. The police in Ferguson have displayed amazing restraint in the face of what looks like a determined effort to create a violent response so the cameras can show it and inflame yet more violence. Notice that the film crews rarely bother to show the public the violent protests and looting and rioting that precedes the police response. They just show you the aftermath, when the cops are moving through the area clearing things up. So you're not seeing the majority of cops who are wearing normal gear and standing around with the folks who are actually assembling peacefully. You're only seeing the minority of cops wearing the tactical gear who are clearing out the areas the rioters were just in.

But hey. Feel free to blame it all on the gear the cops are using. Cause that make so much sense. Smiley: rolleyes

Edited, Aug 27th 2014 7:04pm by gbaji
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#170 Aug 27 2014 at 8:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
And that's where we disagree though.

*Shrug*

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#171 Aug 27 2014 at 9:12 PM Rating: Excellent
gbaji wrote:
So you're not seeing the majority of cops who are wearing normal gear and standing around with the folks who are actually assembling peacefully.
Does FOX show this sort of footage a lot? I wouldn't know. I don't watch TV news.
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#172 Aug 27 2014 at 9:34 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
"But you said 9/11!" Gbaji pouts. I did, and I was referring to the nation at large and the same mindset that gave us towns that felt the need to post the "Threat Level" on billboards and the sincere belief that the Harper Hills County Fair was a potential Al'Qaeda target for their next attack. Which was the real spur for police departments requesting this stuff and the DoD distributing it. Not "But... but... LA bank robbers! And Sandy Hook!"


And that's where we disagree though. On two things (at least):

1. That the events of 9/11 and/or terrorism in general has had anything at all to do with police forces utilizing "military style" gear (except to the point that the WOT has made a good amount of relatively new surplus gear available of course). [/i]

9/11 wa directly responsible for the dept of homeland security. Only it wasn't simply local law enforcement that were burdened with military stuff. I personally was shipped off to alabama and stuck in a chamber with sarin gas cuz, you know, podunk hazmat teams had to prepared to fight the terrorists. Hospitals, fire depts and police were geared up with all the latest gizmos and gadgets. Most of which now, a decade later is rotting in storage. At least ferguson got to use some of their military toys.
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#173 Aug 27 2014 at 9:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Honestly, this is someone who just equivocated a few special officers during the LA riots wearing plain green body armor over their blue police uniforms with the stuff on display in Ferguson. Hence the shrug. It's not even worth arguing with him about it. He did pull a "Blame it all on..." strawman though so if you're playing Gbaji Logical Fallacies bingo at home, add one to your card.
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#174 Aug 28 2014 at 7:19 AM Rating: Good
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Friar Bijou wrote:
Does FOX show this sort of footage a lot?
Everyone is showing footage of it.
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#175 Aug 28 2014 at 8:05 AM Rating: Good
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Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
So you're not seeing the majority of cops who are wearing normal gear and standing around with the folks who are actually assembling peacefully.
Does FOX show this sort of footage a lot? I wouldn't know. I don't watch TV news.

How would gbaji know? He doesn't get his news from anywhere.
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#176 Aug 28 2014 at 9:53 AM Rating: Decent
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So you're not seeing the majority of cops who are wearing normal gear and standing around with the folks who are actually assembling peacefully.

Weird. It's especially strange because when Black Panthers were hanging out at polling stations, I didn't see anything about it because it was lost in all the stories of 40 something bespectacled polish guys working as election judges, because that was equally interesting to the masses. Clearly Obama is sending marching orders to the lamestream media about this, because he'd like nothing more than to take guns away...from police...or at least armor. Or something. Probably for the Kenyan invasion.
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#177 Aug 28 2014 at 8:24 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
Honestly, this is someone who just equivocated a few special officers during the LA riots wearing plain green body armor over their blue police uniforms with the stuff on display in Ferguson.


Assuming you meant "equated", there's just a few special officers using the military gear that everyone's complaining about too. So yeah, it's worth making the comparison. Point being that those are the guys who are clearing the riot areas, and that's the most dramatic footage, so that's what most people see on the evening news. The problem is that there's so much value in creating a narrative that blames the cops for everything going on that objective evaluation of their actions has gone out the window. Peaceful protesters pass "normal" police dressed in normal gear and not hindering them in anyway. Then they see people running from some altercation a few blocks away and head there to see what's happening. Then they run into the guys with the tactical gear firing tear gas into the street, and wonder why they're being targeted (they aren't, they just deliberately went to where the riot is going on). Then they see looters and rioters and come to the ridiculous conclusion that those people are rioting and looting because the cops are there firing tear gas.

That's what's going on. And the story that gets repeated is how the police are attacking peaceful protesters. And the media laps it up because it matches the narrative. Then people repeat it on forums like this.

What the police are wearing isn't forcing people to riot and loot, and it's absurd to even suggest it. And in my opinion, if your peaceful protest manages to turn violent nearly every single night, maybe you're not doing it right? Just a thought.
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#178 Aug 28 2014 at 9:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
there's just a few special officers using the military gear that everyone's complaining about too.

Heh. Ok.

Screenshot


It's just a few guys! Smiley: laugh[ Smiley: rolleyes


Seriously, as funny as its been to watch you just weave total bullshit on a topic you're making up as you go along, you're doing a terrible job at being convincing. Stick to making Sandy Hook "comparisons".
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#179 Aug 29 2014 at 4:57 PM Rating: Good
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What the police are wearing isn't forcing people to riot and loot, and it's absurd to even suggest it. And in my opinion, if your peaceful protest manages to turn violent nearly every single night, maybe you're not doing it right? Just a thought

You clearly aren't. For instance, if you loot some tea and throw it in a harbor and then gather to protest the consequences and someone gets shot, you pretty much deserve it.

Cheerio.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a whore. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#180 Aug 31 2014 at 8:54 AM Rating: Excellent
Interesting Article: 7 Important Details Nobody Mentions About Ferguson
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#181 Aug 31 2014 at 10:17 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:

That's the real problem in Ferguson. The police in Ferguson have displayed amazing restraint in the face of what looks like a determined effort to create a violent response so the cameras can show it and inflame yet more violence.



**** cryst.. what restraint? Are we looking at two different towns with the same name? The PD there did everything in their power to pour as much gas on the fire as possible. Most of the white America would have shrugged it off if they didn't **** up so royally on so many fronts..

And here is a way to compare it; a week ago Chicago cop killed a teen, but here are the things that are different:
- the kid had a gun
- police report was actually written
- there is an official investigation just in case
- we knew who the officer was

Now compare it to Ferguson and see me if you can tell me why people got **** off.

Restraint.. there is this old joke of a propaganda movie being made about Stalin. Child sits on his lap. Child says: "Uncle, gimme some sweet!". Stalin says: **** off." and the crew adds a caption:"He coulda killed him!". Restraint...

Edited, Aug 31st 2014 12:18pm by angrymnk

Edited, Aug 31st 2014 12:18pm by angrymnk
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#182 Aug 31 2014 at 11:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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According to Gbaji, there was only a couple cops dressed like soldiers and acting like douches, but everyone else just kept running past them like an old Hanna-Barbera background.
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#183 Sep 02 2014 at 7:29 AM Rating: Good
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angrymnk wrote:
And here is a way to compare it;
There's plenty of things to compare, both sides are ignoring one that happened a week or so ago pretty **** heavily.
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#184 Sep 02 2014 at 7:39 AM Rating: Good
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What bugs me is, and really highlights the military mentality is that the shot kid was left laying in the road with no medical attention, like he was just an enemy casualty.

TAKE NO PRISONERS.
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What bugs me is, and really highlights the military mentality is that the shot kid was left laying in the road with no medical attention, like he was just an enemy casualty.

Was shot twice in the face. The parts of him required to retain the spark of life were very likely a fine red mist off in the distance somewhere. I don't really have a problem with the lack of urgency. There doesn't seem to be an open question about how long he lived after being shot.
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#186 Sep 02 2014 at 12:58 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
What bugs me is, and really highlights the military mentality is that the shot kid was left laying in the road with no medical attention, like he was just an enemy casualty.

Was shot twice in the face. The parts of him required to retain the spark of life were very likely a fine red mist off in the distance somewhere. I don't really have a problem with the lack of urgency. There doesn't seem to be an open question about how long he lived after being shot.

Head shot killed him. This is about decency. Efforts to at least check for signs of life is a common courtesy.

You hit a dog in the road, you know it's dead, but you'll probably still pull over and check and see.
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#187 Sep 02 2014 at 1:00 PM Rating: Decent
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You hit a dog in the road, you know it's dead, but you'll probably still pull over and check and see.

Is that what you people do? I either chuckle in a satisfied manner or yell "who's laughing now dog!"
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#188 Sep 02 2014 at 1:01 PM Rating: Excellent
I get out and repeatedly shoot the dog with an UZI. That'll teach him.
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#189 Sep 02 2014 at 1:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
I get out and repeatedly shoot the dog with an UZI. That'll teach him.
What are you, a nine year old girl?
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#190 Sep 02 2014 at 1:05 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
I either chuckle in a satisfied manner or yell "who's laughing now dog!"

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#191 Sep 02 2014 at 1:06 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Sir Xsarus wrote:
I get out and repeatedly shoot the dog with an UZI. That'll teach him.
What are you, a nine year old girl?

Good one.
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#192 Sep 02 2014 at 1:17 PM Rating: Excellent
lolgaxe wrote:
Sir Xsarus wrote:
I get out and repeatedly shoot the dog with an UZI. That'll teach him.
What are you, a nine year old girl?

yes, do you want to meet?
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#193 Sep 02 2014 at 1:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Head shot killed him. This is about decency. Efforts to at least check for signs of life is a common courtesy.
I haven't seen stuff or anything, but isn't that pretty normal in a confrontation like that? I mean if they had to discharge their weapons any type of medical people aren't going to be allowed on the scene until they're certain the scene is secure, there's no other accomplices, etc. I mean the paramedics' union would have a fit if someone tried to send them into a situation like that, they have to be absolutely certain there's no danger first. Which is usually means plenty of time for someone to die and lay there a while.
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#194 Sep 02 2014 at 1:53 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Head shot killed him. This is about decency. Efforts to at least check for signs of life is a common courtesy.
I haven't seen stuff or anything, but isn't that pretty normal in a confrontation like that? I mean if they had to discharge their weapons any type of medical people aren't going to be allowed on the scene until they're certain the scene is secure, there's no other accomplices, etc. I mean the paramedics' union would have a fit if someone tried to send them into a situation like that, they have to be absolutely certain there's no danger first. Which is usually means plenty of time for someone to die and lay there a while.

No, this wasn't a battle field. That's the issue. It was one big black kid, who's now lying on the ground. The little threat that there was is lying on the ground with his face blown off - no threat left. It doesn't take a paramedic to see if the guy has a spark of life left in him. The cop can check that. If he did have a pulse, the cop would call the paramedic. Brown wasn't even given that.

In fact, they left his body lying in the road for hours. THAT was stupid. 'Lets let all the townsfolk see what we do to misbehavin' black boys'.
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#195 Sep 02 2014 at 1:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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No, forget it, I'm not being drawn back into this.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2014 4:01pm by lolgaxe
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#196 Sep 02 2014 at 2:10 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
In fact, they left his body lying in the road for hours.
The EMTs got there between 30-45 minutes. Smiley: dubious
30-45 minutes before anyone approached the body to check it's condition (very dead now). But then the body was left there uncovered for hours according to newspaper accounts. I realize investigations have to be done before anything can be moved, but you don't think the dead body lying there uncovered for all to see didn't provide emotional fodder to those standing around witnessing the whole deal?

You've had CPR class - when do you call 911? If someone is not breathing and/or not responsive. Brown met that criteria, but the cop never called for an ambulance.

That's what makes it feel warlike to me. You don't call for a medic when you blow up the enemy. You call for the medic when one of your guys gets blown up.




Edited, Sep 2nd 2014 10:12pm by Elinda
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#197 Sep 02 2014 at 2:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
In fact, they left his body lying in the road for hours. THAT was stupid. 'Lets let all the townsfolk see what we do to misbehavin' black boys'.
Yeah, like I said, I'm pretty ignorant of details and such, but it's been a pretty big topic of debate in the paramedic community the last few years. Waiting 20-30 minutes Edit: or 30-45 as it seems the case was here. Smiley: rolleyes while people bleed out and die because the police aren't certain things are under control doesn't look good. On the other hand your run-of-the-mill paramedic isn't necessarily trained (or willing, or even allowed) to put themselves into a potentially dangerous situation (which is what it would be considered, irregardless of apparent facts on the ground, until the police say the scene is secure). I know there's a couple of different locations that are playing with sending paramedics into unsecured scenes in situation like that. Like I said though, a bit of a hot-button issue in that profession.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2014 1:21pm by someproteinguy
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#198 Sep 02 2014 at 2:14 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
No, forget it, I'm not being drawn back into this.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2014 4:01pm by lolgaxe
Too late bucko. Smiley: wink
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#199 Sep 02 2014 at 2:41 PM Rating: Decent
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No, this wasn't a battle field. That's the issue. It was one big black kid, who's now lying on the ground. The little threat that there was is lying on the ground with his face blown off - no threat left. It doesn't take a paramedic to see if the guy has a spark of life left in him. The cop can check that. If he did have a pulse, the cop would call the paramedic. Brown wasn't even given that.

In fact, they left his body lying in the road for hours. THAT was stupid. 'Lets let all the townsfolk see what we do to misbehavin' black boys'.


You are reading things into the situation that aren't warranted. Weakens your argument and makes your otherwise righteous outrage appear capricious.
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#200 Sep 02 2014 at 2:56 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, it was a bit capricious.

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#201 Sep 02 2014 at 3:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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I dunno, clearly they weren't that concerned about maintaining the integrity of the crime scene since they didn't file a friggin' incident report for 12 days. Seems like they could have covered him up, at least.
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