Except that there is actually an outbreak going on, and it is actually the worst outbreak of ebola we've yet seen.
No it isn't. The worst we've seen was the 90% strain, this one is 54%. What happened in the last 24 hours that you've changed your mind from saying we should be using facts to completely ignoring those very facts? What could have possibly changed in that short amount of time to change your opinion so much? Better question, since you no longer feel facts are relevant, why not just say it is 100% fatal? I mean "Because that's not true" can't really be a valid argument since, derp, neither is 90% but here we are. I mean, 100% is clearly more concerning than 90% after all, and the difference between 90% and 100% is less than 54% and 90%.
Oh, and I'm using 54% total because that's the number the CDC released today. Not quite as reliable as the Holiday Inn Express bellboy, but I don't need to deal with a Jackson Pollock painting either.
Edited, Aug 13th 2014 6:51pm by lolgaxe
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George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
I just think that blasting people who raise concerns about this because their fatality rate numbers may not be completely accurate is totally missing the point. It's like you're looking for a reason to discredit *them*
No, no, they discredit themselves with silly panic mongering.
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Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
And the one in Congo had a 90%, and Zaire had 88%, and Congo again had 83%. Point being that of those with listed fatality rate, the top 7 are all of the Zaire variety. The one Zaire strain outbreak with a 45% fatality rate is a clear outlier.
Oh certainly, it's clearly a bad idea to concentrate too heavily on a data point that lies on the outer edge of the distribution. That's the whole point of this discussion. Is it that hard to report a range, or an average value even?
gbaji wrote:
Except that there is actually an outbreak going on, and it is actually the worst outbreak of ebola we've yet seen. So I'm not sure how healthy caution isn't called for here.
And the best way to get there is with inaccurate information!
gbaji wrote:
The worst that happens if we exaggerate the fatality rate (and to be honest, does it really matter from a public health perspective whether the rate is 65% or 90%?) is that people take the disease more seriously. How the **** is that not exactly what is needed?
I'd argue it does, but I'm guessing we'll just have to disagree on that. People do react different to a 45% survival rate and a 10% survival rate. It's amazing how some people give up fighting when they think they have almost no chance of beating something. Knowing your chance of recovery is 4x higher can be quite a motivator for them.
gbaji wrote:
The issue was about the wisdom of transporting infected patients into the US for treatment.
Um okay. I'm not quite sure why you thought I was talking about that, but go on.
gbaji wrote:
I just think that blasting people who raise concerns about this because their fatality rate numbers may not be completely accurate is totally missing the point. It's like you're looking for a reason to discredit *them*, and not really looking at or responding to the concerns they're raising. And that seems like a totally moronic way to do things.
Who's being complacent? I'm at a hospital here, along with people who have been to the area in the last couple of months. I assure you I'm not walking around in a hazmat suit or anything. My daily routine is exactly the same as any other day. They haven't even sent out anything via e-mail or newsletter here, much less any alert. If we're not on alert, why should your average Joe be? Well, you know, excluding those who might be traveling there and such of course.
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That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
No it isn't. The worst we've seen was the 90% strain, this one is 54%. What happened in the last 24 hours that you've changed your mind from saying we should be using facts to completely ignoring those very facts?
Far be it from me to be a gbaji apologist, but I think you're off the mark, a little bit. This is the worst outbreak we've seen in terms of numbers infected and dead, even though the mortality rate is lower. So, apples and oranges.
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In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
Okay, I can go with that. However it still doesn't justify spreading false information about the situation for no other reason than to incite panic. It only makes things worse.
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George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
It's amazing how some people give up fighting when they think they have almost no chance of beating something.
Yeah, people don't die from "giving up fighting" That myth has to die. People die because their bodies are overwhelmed, not from a lack of determination.
____________________________
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
It's fairly common to build entire hospitals that are designed to help out with the mental health side of treatment. A person's mental health does an affect on their chances for survival, and the quality of their eventual recovery. The last thing you need to do is get someone depressed by giving them misinformation and add that extra fatigue to an already difficult struggle. Saying "Wow you're almost certainly going to die" does nothing to help the patient, especially if it isn't true.
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That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
A person's mental health does an affect on their chances for survival, and the quality of their eventual recovery
Nope. Barring actual psychosis or intentional self sabotage, thinking you'll probably die has no adverse effect compared to thinking you'll probably not die. Been studied fairly completely as it would be a great feel good story if positive thinking helped people better survive terminal conditions. It doesn't. I bet it was fun guessing though, huh?
Telling people to "think positively" or "keep fighting" some horrible illness is basically the polite way of saying "shut up about your suffering".
:) The smiley is there to make you healthier.
____________________________
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
A person's mental health does an affect on their chances for survival, and the quality of their eventual recovery
Nope. Barring actual psychosis or intentional self sabotage, thinking you'll probably die has no adverse effect compared to thinking you'll probably not die. Been studied fairly completely as it would be a great feel good story if positive thinking helped people better survive terminal conditions. It doesn't. I bet it was fun guessing though, huh?
Telling people to "think positively" or "keep fighting" some horrible illness is basically the polite way of saying "shut up about your suffering".
:) The smiley is there to make you healthier.
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Dandruffshampoo wrote:
Curses, beaten by Professor stupidopo-opo.
Annabella, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Stupidmonkey is more organized than a bag of raccoons.
My mom was dying from cancer for about 4 years. I can't believe how many times I heard people say stuff like, "she's a fighter", "she has lots to live for", "she'll beat this", even "god will see her through". Bull.
Because she died from the disease, it means she wasn't a fighter?
She had nothing to live for?
God gave her the sinners cold shoulder?
Why would anyone ever die from disease if a bit of positive thinking is a cure-all?
Why would anyone ever die from disease if a bit of positive thinking is a cure-all?
It's not that positive thinking is a cure-all, it's that depressive thinking and giving up hastens the end (and thus diminishes the chance at recovery). A more optimistic attitude staves off those effects but it's not as though rainbows cure viruses.
So goes the thinking. I couldn't possibly care enough to argue with Smash about it.
Why would anyone ever die from disease if a bit of positive thinking is a cure-all?
It's not that positive thinking is a cure-all, it's that depressive thinking and giving up hastens the end (and thus diminishes the chance at recovery). A more optimistic attitude staves off those effects but it's not as though rainbows cure viruses.
So goes the thinking. I couldn't possibly care enough to argue with Smash about it.
I'm more inclined to think that a depressive thinking may cause someone to not take their prescribed meds, or not eat, sleep or otherwise maintain their body properly - thus hastening the end.
I don't think the average human can internally fight a disease through forceful thought, and while it certainly makes for a good story, I don't think undying 'love' will pull someone through.
01001001 00100000 01001100 01001001 01001011 01000101 00100000 01000011 01000001 01001011 01000101 You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain Forum FAQ
I don't think the average human can internally fight a disease through forceful thought, and while it certainly makes for a good story, I don't think undying 'love' will pull someone through.
Not particularly just in response to you or anything, but it was a particularly good quote to quote. Below is a random scattering of whatever showed up quickly when I searched for stuff:
In addition we found significant and indepedent effects on survival of: number of supportive friends, number of supportive persons, whether the woman worked, whether she was unmarried, the extent of contact with friends and the size of her social network. Thus, the woman's social context, particularly contexts of friendship and work outside the home, are statistically important for survival.
Conclusion. —Major depression in patients hospitalized following an Ml is an independent risk factor for mortality at 6 months. Its impact is at least equivalent to that of left ventricular dysfunction (Killip class) and history of previous Ml. Additional study is needed to determine whether treatment of depression can influence post-MI survival and to assess possible underlying mechanisms.(JAMA. 1993;270:1819-1825)
Weekly attendance was also associated with improving and maintaining good mental health, increased social relationships, and marital stability. Results were stronger for women in improving poor health behaviors and mental health, consistent with known gender differences in associations between religious attendance and survival. Further understanding the mechanisms involved could aid health promotion and intervention efforts.
The self-rating of health was found to be an important psychosocial parameter in the evaluation of health status, in determining the prognosis of an elderly person, and in analyzing survival.
No health without mental health This one is a good one there are links to 270 different papers there detailing the importance of mental health on a bunch of things including: HIV/Aids, Cardiovascular disease, Diabetes, malaria, Tuberculosis, generic injuries, etc. In some cases you're increasing the chances of coming sick, in other cases you're talking about the speed and quality of the recovery, sometimes there's a direct impact on mortality (probably the most relevant to this discussion), and there's plenty of papers showing the opposite as well (i.e. traditional illness -> mental illness -> die).
Estimated 5-year mortality rates among low family support patients were approximately 3 times higher than estimated mortality for high support patients. Differences in patient adherence to the dietary and medication regimens failed to explain the significant effect of family support.
And that's enough of google scholar for the moment. The pump is beeping something about going over-pressure in the other room, and I should probably go take a look at it.
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That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
Speaking of psycho-ologilistic stuff, how long should I play Hide and Seek with a five year old? We started five minutes ago, and I found her feet sticking out from under her bed giggling. When should I reveal I found her?
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George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
You can wait until they're calling for you loud enough that the neighbors can hear, about that point you have to break down and go find them though. No traumatic hide-n-seek games.
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That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
I believe protocol is to stand by her bed saying "I wonder where she could be?" and maybe 'accidentally' nudge her foot with your own. Then leave for a minute and return to say "gotcha".
Sitting on the bed is optional depending on the bed height, your weight and the chance of crushing your child.
Did as instructed. Called out, pretended to leave, and sat on the footboard of her bed and waited for her to get bored and crawl out. Then I caught her. Was fun. Now for some peanut butter and banana sandwiches.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
01001001 00100000 01001100 01001001 01001011 01000101 00100000 01000011 01000001 01001011 01000101 You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain Forum FAQ
Below is a random scattering of whatever showed up quickly when I searched for stuff: 
