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#1 Jul 22 2014 at 9:45 AM Rating: Good
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Today a Federal Appeals court panel ruled that participants in health exchanges run by the federal government in 34 states are not eligible for tax subsidies.

This attempt to do away with the ACA, seems to have some legs.
USA Today wrote:
Michael Cannon, a Cato Institute health economist who helped devise the legal challenge, said the refusal by so many states to create health exchanges led to the court ruling. "This is popular resistance to the law," he said.

STORY

I am sort of over-whelmed at the resistance of our society to move forward on health care, immigration, or, anything really.

YES, YES, I've seen all good people turn their heads each day....





Edited, Jul 22nd 2014 5:46pm by Elinda
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#2 Jul 22 2014 at 9:54 AM Rating: Good
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Willingly sabotage plan, then pretend it was inevitable.
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#3 Jul 22 2014 at 9:59 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Willingly sabotage plan, then pretend it was inevitable.

...and then what. We're back to square one, with an unjust, ineffective, exorbitantly priced health care system.

I listened to Rubio on the radio this morning decrying the 60,000 immigrants wanting a piece of his pie. He claims we can't absorb them, and other countries should take them, and whine whine whine....

Wtf are people thinking?

Oh wait, I know....about their own momentary fame, good fortune and of course, getting laid.
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#4 Jul 22 2014 at 10:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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We created our own exchange, and it's been nothing but a debacle. I mean debacle to the point it makes the federal government's roll out look like it went smoothly. Incorrect coding, out of date information, losing people's enrollment data, large cost overruns, and it goes on and on. To the point there's a fairly strong movement here to abandon the state exchange for the federal one. Given all that in a state that's largely is left leaning and willing to give this Obamacare thing a try, I can hardly blame other states for not wanting to set up their own exchanges.

I'm not sure I'd call that "popular resistance to the law" though, as much as "this is a big complicated thing to put together, and the federal government is already making their own system, so why do we want to throw time and money down this rabbit hole on something that's more or less redundant anyway?" kind of thing.

Elinda wrote:
I am sort of over-whelmed at the resistance of our society to move forward on health care, immigration, or, anything really.

YES, YES, I've seen all good people turn their heads each day....
Those aren't the kind of issues that win you elections. Smiley: disappointed
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#5 Jul 22 2014 at 11:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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A couple hours later, a federal appeals court in another district ruled 3-0 that they were legal.

The administration can ask the entire appeals court (rather than just the three judge panel) to review the case or just bump it to the SCotUS. Much like the broader ACA case, it's hard to invest much into it until the final word.
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#6 Jul 22 2014 at 12:42 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
A couple hours later, a federal appeals court in another district ruled 3-0 that they were legal.

The administration can ask the entire appeals court (rather than just the three judge panel) to review the case or just bump it to the SCotUS. Much like the broader ACA case, it's hard to invest much into it until the final word.

Smiley: thumbsup

Oh but wait...

**FOX NEWS ALERT**FOX NEWS ALERT**FOX NEWS ALERT**

ObamaCare in Death Spiral..............
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#7 Jul 22 2014 at 12:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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My favorite is the "Trending in Opinion" articles:

1) ObamaCare in death spiral after federal appeals court strikes down some subsidies. (though they seem to acknologed the other ruling and changed to "Obamacare confusion" now Smiley: rolleyes)
2) Border patrol: 'This is the dream of every terrorist in the world'
3) Obama's LGBT Executive Order endangers religious liberty
4) Ukraine, Gaza, Iraq: Obama dithers, hesitates and then goes golfing
5) VA reform: Sen. Sanders' socialist agenda holding up help for America's veterans

Yet another fascinating glimpse into an alternate reality. Smiley: oyvey
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#8 Jul 22 2014 at 12:52 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
My favorite is the "Trending in Opinion" articles:

1) ObamaCare in death spiral after federal appeals court strikes down some subsidies. (though they seem to acknologed the other ruling and changed to "Obamacare confusion" now Smiley: rolleyes)
2) Border patrol: 'This is the dream of every terrorist in the world'
3) Obama's LGBT Executive Order endangers religious liberty
4) Ukraine, Gaza, Iraq: Obama dithers, hesitates and then goes golfing
5) VA reform: Sen. Sanders' socialist agenda holding up help for America's veterans

Yet another fascinating glimpse into an alternate reality. Smiley: oyvey
The author of the Death Spiral article:
Quote:
Betsy McCaughey, Ph.D. is former Lt. Governor of New York. She is author of Beating Obamacare;


And I thought Barry seemed like a pretty likable guy. Smiley: confused
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#9 Jul 22 2014 at 1:08 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Oh but wait...
Two, maybe three hours.
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#10 Jul 22 2014 at 1:18 PM Rating: Decent
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The administration can ask the entire appeals court (rather than just the three judge panel) to review the case or just bump it to the SCotUS. Much like the broader ACA case, it's hard to invest much into it until the final word.


Given the wording of the original decision there is absolutely no chance the tax piece is ruled out by SCOTUS. I haven't read the decision here, but it must be extremely novel given the discussion on taxes in the majority decisions Federation v Sebelius.
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#11 Jul 22 2014 at 3:12 PM Rating: Default
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Elinda wrote:
I am sort of over-whelmed at the resistance of our society to move forward on health care, immigration, or, anything really.


Because "forward" and "better" (or even "good") are not synonymous terms. Going forward towards a cliff isn't a good idea. Similarly, going forward with a law that many feel is a terrible imposition on personal liberties and a massive overreach of federal power isn't a good idea (for them at least), and it's completely rational and reasonable for them to oppose said law.

Whether this particular challenge survives SCOTUS review is debatable, but the point is that the law was clearly pushed through with a lack of public support and shows it. How one can be surprised at public opposition for a law that has consistently polled in the 55-65% opposed range is itself surprising.
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#12 Jul 22 2014 at 3:14 PM Rating: Good
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Two hours four minutes.
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#13 Jul 22 2014 at 3:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Two hours four minutes.
Nicely done. Smiley: thumbsup

Smiley: cookie
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#14 Jul 22 2014 at 5:27 PM Rating: Default
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Elinda wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Willingly sabotage plan, then pretend it was inevitable.

...and then what. We're back to square one, with an unjust, ineffective, exorbitantly priced health care system.

I listened to Rubio on the radio this morning decrying the 60,000 immigrants wanting a piece of his pie. He claims we can't absorb them, and other countries should take them, and whine whine whine....

Wtf are people thinking?

Oh wait, I know....about their own momentary fame, good fortune and of course, getting laid.


They learned their lesson from Microsoft. Fire ton of people. Beg for H1b visas.

You are wondering how it is related? They are doing it because it works.
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#15 Jul 22 2014 at 5:49 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Elinda wrote:
I am sort of over-whelmed at the resistance of our society to move forward on health care, immigration, or, anything really.


Because "forward" and "better" (or even "good") are not synonymous terms. Going forward towards a cliff isn't a good idea. Similarly, going forward with a law that many feel is a terrible imposition on personal liberties and a massive overreach of federal power isn't a good idea (for them at least), and it's completely rational and reasonable for them to oppose said law.


The only reason they feel that way is because they are unwilling to move forward, or change anything. If America were a person, it'd be a 13 year old boy who still wears diapers-- they're tried and true and there's just no need at all to grow the **** up.
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#16 Jul 22 2014 at 6:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Whether this particular challenge survives SCOTUS review is debatable

Is it? What odds would you take to bet that it does.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#17 Jul 22 2014 at 6:43 PM Rating: Decent
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The only reason they feel that way is because they are unwilling to move forward, or change anything. If America were a person, it'd be a 13 year old boy who still wears diapers-- they're tried and true and there's just no need at all to grow the @#%^ up.


It would be if that 13 year old boy was also a manipulative sociopath who ruthlessly exploited everyone else in the world, bending them to his will and laughing.

While wearing the diapers. The whole "America is an unsophisticated nation of rubes" thing would work better if we didn't run the world. The reality is that America's elite has been wildly more successful in manipulating it's proletariat than other nations. That's what you feel as disgust at ignorance, where what you should be feeling is envy. If you're part of the ruling class, obviously. If you're not then, well, your self awareness of your own insignificance is cold comfort at best, isn't it?
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#18 Jul 23 2014 at 6:55 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
[b]

It would be if that 13 year old boy was also a manipulative sociopath who ruthlessly exploited everyone else in the world, bending them to his will and laughing.


This is why there should be a woman in charge. Hahaha....
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#19 Jul 23 2014 at 7:39 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
This is why there should be a woman in charge. Hahaha....
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#20 Jul 23 2014 at 8:45 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:

The only reason they feel that way is because they are unwilling to move forward, or change anything. If America were a person, it'd be a 13 year old boy who still wears diapers-- they're tried and true and there's just no need at all to grow the @#%^ up.


It would be if that 13 year old boy was also a manipulative sociopath who ruthlessly exploited everyone else in the world, bending them to his will and laughing.

While wearing the diapers. The whole "America is an unsophisticated nation of rubes" thing would work better if we didn't run the world. The reality is that America's elite has been wildly more successful in manipulating it's proletariat than other nations. That's what you feel as disgust at ignorance, where what you should be feeling is envy. If you're part of the ruling class, obviously. If you're not then, well, your self awareness of your own insignificance is cold comfort at best, isn't it?


Perhaps America is a family of persons-- whereas the 13 year old in diapers is the average citizen, with the father being the elite ruling class. Just for fun we'll assume the average citizen in freedom diapers has two daddies, instead of a mother. Daddy #2 is portion of Americans who disagree with daddy #1's parenting methods, but is submissive, frequently trying to appease and compromise regardless of how insane Daddy #1's ideas are because he's the one bringing home all the money.
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#21 Jul 23 2014 at 8:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kuwoobie wrote:
Just for fun we'll assume the average citizen in freedom diapers has two daddies, instead of a mother.
Those kind of wacky ideas ideas would never fly here in Jesusland. Smiley: disappointed
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#22 Jul 23 2014 at 12:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:

Because "forward" and "better" (or even "good") are not synonymous terms. Going forward towards a cliff isn't a good idea.
...and what was your sides idea for health care?

Oh they didn't have one. Let the market take care of it. Let big pharma get richer. Let the poor go to the emergency room for their wellness needs.

Healthcare is not a market commodity. We've had this argument. It's essential for a healthy, productive society to be, uh, healthy and productive.

The ACA is far from perfect, but government oversight of health care distribution is essential. FINALLY, we take that first baby step towards these provisions and the GOP, STILL reeling from non-white guy, community organizer becoming their president refuses to think or act outside of their vindictive ****-hurt ego.

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#23 Jul 23 2014 at 2:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
How one can be surprised at public opposition for a law that has consistently polled in the 55-65% opposed range is itself surprising.

(A) "Opposed" includes both "goes too far" and "doesn't go far enough" numbers. "Not far enough" makes up 10-15% of that "55-65%" (really 50-60% but who's counting).
(B) Most people support tweaking or mildly reforming the law (~55%) versus doing away with it (~35%) with about 10% happy as is.
(C) Soundbite statistics are fun!
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#24 Jul 23 2014 at 2:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
gbaji wrote:

Because "forward" and "better" (or even "good") are not synonymous terms. Going forward towards a cliff isn't a good idea.
...and what was your sides idea for health care?


Well, since 20 seconds on google gets you an answer, you aren't really asking this question seriously, but just repeating it so that it appears as though "my side" has no answer.

Quote:
Oh they didn't have one.


You know what's really annoying about this? This is probably the 10th time in the last few years someone has insisted that "conservatives have no plan" for something, to which I respond with an easily found link to exactly the plan they insist doesn't exist. Saying something over and over doesn't make it true. It makes you a freaking puppet.

Quote:
Let the market take care of it.


The portions that the market does the best job taking care of, yes. I'll also point out that just because you don't like an alternative doesn't mean that one doesn't exist.

Quote:
Let big pharma get richer.


As opposed to Obamacare? The ACA creates a "free money" scenario in our health care system. Which will result in every single for profit component of the system gorging themselves. What the **** do you think happens when the government passes a law mandating that everyone must purchase something?

Quote:
Let the poor go to the emergency room for their wellness needs.


The poor will still go to the emergency room for their wellness needs. People need to stop thinking that "the poor" would all be healthy and happy if only they could afford to visit a doctor regularly. You're displaying a complete lack of understanding of the driving issues and problems that "the poor" suffer. I'll give you a hint: It's not actually about lack of money. That's almost always a symptom of the problem, and not a cause.

Quote:
Healthcare is not a market commodity. We've had this argument. It's essential for a healthy, productive society to be, uh, healthy and productive.


It's not that simple though. Trying to hide a full gamut of things from flu shots, to trauma medicine, to cancer treatments, to contraceptives, to anti-depressants under one big umbrella called "health care" is foolish at best. Some of those things we should treat as a human needs issue, others as a commodity. Trying to treat them all the same is a bad idea.

Quote:
The ACA is far from perfect, but government oversight of health care distribution is essential.


The ACA goes far far far beyond oversight.


Quote:
FINALLY, we take that first baby step towards these provisions and the GOP, STILL reeling from non-white guy, community organizer becoming their president refuses to think or act outside of their vindictive ****-hurt ego.


Will you please stop with the freaking racist innuendo? The GOP opposed the same thing when the very white Clintons proposed it back in the 90s. Stop playing the **** race card as a means of defending Obama's agenda. This also gets really freaking tiresome. Can we please just discuss an issue on the merits of the **** issue itself? Just once? What the **** is it with you guys and always countering the conservative position with distractions? "Oh yeah! Well, you're a racist" isn't actually a valid argument.

Edited, Jul 23rd 2014 1:32pm by gbaji
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#25 Jul 23 2014 at 2:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
...and what was your sides idea for health care?
I'm guessing something like this.

Summary article:

Quote:
1. They want to end the tax bias in favor of employer-sponsored health insurance to create full portability (either through a tax credit, deductibility, or another method);

2. They want to reform medical malpractice laws (likely through carrot incentives to the states);

3. They want to allow for insurance purchases across state lines;

4. They want to support state-level pre-existing condition pools;

5. They want to fully block grant Medicaid;

6. They want to shift Medicare to premium support;

7. They want to speed up the FDA device and drug approval process; and

8. They want to maximize the health savings account model, one of the few avenues proven to lower health care spending, making these high deductible + HSA plans more attractive where Obamacare hamstrung them.


I've gotta stop being slow... Smiley: lol

Edited, Jul 23rd 2014 1:29pm by someproteinguy
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#26 Jul 23 2014 at 2:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Every Republican is racist, without exception. Just accept yourself for the racist guy you are, gbaji, you'll be much happier with yourself.
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