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#1 Jul 22 2014 at 9:45 AM Rating: Good
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Today a Federal Appeals court panel ruled that participants in health exchanges run by the federal government in 34 states are not eligible for tax subsidies.

This attempt to do away with the ACA, seems to have some legs.
USA Today wrote:
Michael Cannon, a Cato Institute health economist who helped devise the legal challenge, said the refusal by so many states to create health exchanges led to the court ruling. "This is popular resistance to the law," he said.

STORY

I am sort of over-whelmed at the resistance of our society to move forward on health care, immigration, or, anything really.

YES, YES, I've seen all good people turn their heads each day....





Edited, Jul 22nd 2014 5:46pm by Elinda
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#2 Jul 22 2014 at 9:54 AM Rating: Good
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Willingly sabotage plan, then pretend it was inevitable.
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#3 Jul 22 2014 at 9:59 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Willingly sabotage plan, then pretend it was inevitable.

...and then what. We're back to square one, with an unjust, ineffective, exorbitantly priced health care system.

I listened to Rubio on the radio this morning decrying the 60,000 immigrants wanting a piece of his pie. He claims we can't absorb them, and other countries should take them, and whine whine whine....

Wtf are people thinking?

Oh wait, I know....about their own momentary fame, good fortune and of course, getting laid.
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#4 Jul 22 2014 at 10:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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We created our own exchange, and it's been nothing but a debacle. I mean debacle to the point it makes the federal government's roll out look like it went smoothly. Incorrect coding, out of date information, losing people's enrollment data, large cost overruns, and it goes on and on. To the point there's a fairly strong movement here to abandon the state exchange for the federal one. Given all that in a state that's largely is left leaning and willing to give this Obamacare thing a try, I can hardly blame other states for not wanting to set up their own exchanges.

I'm not sure I'd call that "popular resistance to the law" though, as much as "this is a big complicated thing to put together, and the federal government is already making their own system, so why do we want to throw time and money down this rabbit hole on something that's more or less redundant anyway?" kind of thing.

Elinda wrote:
I am sort of over-whelmed at the resistance of our society to move forward on health care, immigration, or, anything really.

YES, YES, I've seen all good people turn their heads each day....
Those aren't the kind of issues that win you elections. Smiley: disappointed
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#5 Jul 22 2014 at 11:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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A couple hours later, a federal appeals court in another district ruled 3-0 that they were legal.

The administration can ask the entire appeals court (rather than just the three judge panel) to review the case or just bump it to the SCotUS. Much like the broader ACA case, it's hard to invest much into it until the final word.
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#6 Jul 22 2014 at 12:42 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
A couple hours later, a federal appeals court in another district ruled 3-0 that they were legal.

The administration can ask the entire appeals court (rather than just the three judge panel) to review the case or just bump it to the SCotUS. Much like the broader ACA case, it's hard to invest much into it until the final word.

Smiley: thumbsup

Oh but wait...

**FOX NEWS ALERT**FOX NEWS ALERT**FOX NEWS ALERT**

ObamaCare in Death Spiral..............
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#7 Jul 22 2014 at 12:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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My favorite is the "Trending in Opinion" articles:

1) ObamaCare in death spiral after federal appeals court strikes down some subsidies. (though they seem to acknologed the other ruling and changed to "Obamacare confusion" now Smiley: rolleyes)
2) Border patrol: 'This is the dream of every terrorist in the world'
3) Obama's LGBT Executive Order endangers religious liberty
4) Ukraine, Gaza, Iraq: Obama dithers, hesitates and then goes golfing
5) VA reform: Sen. Sanders' socialist agenda holding up help for America's veterans

Yet another fascinating glimpse into an alternate reality. Smiley: oyvey
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#8 Jul 22 2014 at 12:52 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
My favorite is the "Trending in Opinion" articles:

1) ObamaCare in death spiral after federal appeals court strikes down some subsidies. (though they seem to acknologed the other ruling and changed to "Obamacare confusion" now Smiley: rolleyes)
2) Border patrol: 'This is the dream of every terrorist in the world'
3) Obama's LGBT Executive Order endangers religious liberty
4) Ukraine, Gaza, Iraq: Obama dithers, hesitates and then goes golfing
5) VA reform: Sen. Sanders' socialist agenda holding up help for America's veterans

Yet another fascinating glimpse into an alternate reality. Smiley: oyvey
The author of the Death Spiral article:
Quote:
Betsy McCaughey, Ph.D. is former Lt. Governor of New York. She is author of Beating Obamacare;


And I thought Barry seemed like a pretty likable guy. Smiley: confused
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#9 Jul 22 2014 at 1:08 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Oh but wait...
Two, maybe three hours.
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#10 Jul 22 2014 at 1:18 PM Rating: Decent
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The administration can ask the entire appeals court (rather than just the three judge panel) to review the case or just bump it to the SCotUS. Much like the broader ACA case, it's hard to invest much into it until the final word.


Given the wording of the original decision there is absolutely no chance the tax piece is ruled out by SCOTUS. I haven't read the decision here, but it must be extremely novel given the discussion on taxes in the majority decisions Federation v Sebelius.
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#11 Jul 22 2014 at 3:12 PM Rating: Default
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Elinda wrote:
I am sort of over-whelmed at the resistance of our society to move forward on health care, immigration, or, anything really.


Because "forward" and "better" (or even "good") are not synonymous terms. Going forward towards a cliff isn't a good idea. Similarly, going forward with a law that many feel is a terrible imposition on personal liberties and a massive overreach of federal power isn't a good idea (for them at least), and it's completely rational and reasonable for them to oppose said law.

Whether this particular challenge survives SCOTUS review is debatable, but the point is that the law was clearly pushed through with a lack of public support and shows it. How one can be surprised at public opposition for a law that has consistently polled in the 55-65% opposed range is itself surprising.
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#12 Jul 22 2014 at 3:14 PM Rating: Good
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Two hours four minutes.
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#13 Jul 22 2014 at 3:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Two hours four minutes.
Nicely done. Smiley: thumbsup

Smiley: cookie
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#14 Jul 22 2014 at 5:27 PM Rating: Default
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Elinda wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Willingly sabotage plan, then pretend it was inevitable.

...and then what. We're back to square one, with an unjust, ineffective, exorbitantly priced health care system.

I listened to Rubio on the radio this morning decrying the 60,000 immigrants wanting a piece of his pie. He claims we can't absorb them, and other countries should take them, and whine whine whine....

Wtf are people thinking?

Oh wait, I know....about their own momentary fame, good fortune and of course, getting laid.


They learned their lesson from Microsoft. Fire ton of people. Beg for H1b visas.

You are wondering how it is related? They are doing it because it works.
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#15 Jul 22 2014 at 5:49 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Elinda wrote:
I am sort of over-whelmed at the resistance of our society to move forward on health care, immigration, or, anything really.


Because "forward" and "better" (or even "good") are not synonymous terms. Going forward towards a cliff isn't a good idea. Similarly, going forward with a law that many feel is a terrible imposition on personal liberties and a massive overreach of federal power isn't a good idea (for them at least), and it's completely rational and reasonable for them to oppose said law.


The only reason they feel that way is because they are unwilling to move forward, or change anything. If America were a person, it'd be a 13 year old boy who still wears diapers-- they're tried and true and there's just no need at all to grow the **** up.
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#16 Jul 22 2014 at 6:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Whether this particular challenge survives SCOTUS review is debatable

Is it? What odds would you take to bet that it does.
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#17 Jul 22 2014 at 6:43 PM Rating: Decent
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The only reason they feel that way is because they are unwilling to move forward, or change anything. If America were a person, it'd be a 13 year old boy who still wears diapers-- they're tried and true and there's just no need at all to grow the @#%^ up.


It would be if that 13 year old boy was also a manipulative sociopath who ruthlessly exploited everyone else in the world, bending them to his will and laughing.

While wearing the diapers. The whole "America is an unsophisticated nation of rubes" thing would work better if we didn't run the world. The reality is that America's elite has been wildly more successful in manipulating it's proletariat than other nations. That's what you feel as disgust at ignorance, where what you should be feeling is envy. If you're part of the ruling class, obviously. If you're not then, well, your self awareness of your own insignificance is cold comfort at best, isn't it?
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#18 Jul 23 2014 at 6:55 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
[b]

It would be if that 13 year old boy was also a manipulative sociopath who ruthlessly exploited everyone else in the world, bending them to his will and laughing.


This is why there should be a woman in charge. Hahaha....
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#19 Jul 23 2014 at 7:39 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
This is why there should be a woman in charge. Hahaha....
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#20 Jul 23 2014 at 8:45 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:

The only reason they feel that way is because they are unwilling to move forward, or change anything. If America were a person, it'd be a 13 year old boy who still wears diapers-- they're tried and true and there's just no need at all to grow the @#%^ up.


It would be if that 13 year old boy was also a manipulative sociopath who ruthlessly exploited everyone else in the world, bending them to his will and laughing.

While wearing the diapers. The whole "America is an unsophisticated nation of rubes" thing would work better if we didn't run the world. The reality is that America's elite has been wildly more successful in manipulating it's proletariat than other nations. That's what you feel as disgust at ignorance, where what you should be feeling is envy. If you're part of the ruling class, obviously. If you're not then, well, your self awareness of your own insignificance is cold comfort at best, isn't it?


Perhaps America is a family of persons-- whereas the 13 year old in diapers is the average citizen, with the father being the elite ruling class. Just for fun we'll assume the average citizen in freedom diapers has two daddies, instead of a mother. Daddy #2 is portion of Americans who disagree with daddy #1's parenting methods, but is submissive, frequently trying to appease and compromise regardless of how insane Daddy #1's ideas are because he's the one bringing home all the money.
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#21 Jul 23 2014 at 8:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kuwoobie wrote:
Just for fun we'll assume the average citizen in freedom diapers has two daddies, instead of a mother.
Those kind of wacky ideas ideas would never fly here in Jesusland. Smiley: disappointed
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#22 Jul 23 2014 at 12:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:

Because "forward" and "better" (or even "good") are not synonymous terms. Going forward towards a cliff isn't a good idea.
...and what was your sides idea for health care?

Oh they didn't have one. Let the market take care of it. Let big pharma get richer. Let the poor go to the emergency room for their wellness needs.

Healthcare is not a market commodity. We've had this argument. It's essential for a healthy, productive society to be, uh, healthy and productive.

The ACA is far from perfect, but government oversight of health care distribution is essential. FINALLY, we take that first baby step towards these provisions and the GOP, STILL reeling from non-white guy, community organizer becoming their president refuses to think or act outside of their vindictive ****-hurt ego.

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#23 Jul 23 2014 at 2:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
How one can be surprised at public opposition for a law that has consistently polled in the 55-65% opposed range is itself surprising.

(A) "Opposed" includes both "goes too far" and "doesn't go far enough" numbers. "Not far enough" makes up 10-15% of that "55-65%" (really 50-60% but who's counting).
(B) Most people support tweaking or mildly reforming the law (~55%) versus doing away with it (~35%) with about 10% happy as is.
(C) Soundbite statistics are fun!
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#24 Jul 23 2014 at 2:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
gbaji wrote:

Because "forward" and "better" (or even "good") are not synonymous terms. Going forward towards a cliff isn't a good idea.
...and what was your sides idea for health care?


Well, since 20 seconds on google gets you an answer, you aren't really asking this question seriously, but just repeating it so that it appears as though "my side" has no answer.

Quote:
Oh they didn't have one.


You know what's really annoying about this? This is probably the 10th time in the last few years someone has insisted that "conservatives have no plan" for something, to which I respond with an easily found link to exactly the plan they insist doesn't exist. Saying something over and over doesn't make it true. It makes you a freaking puppet.

Quote:
Let the market take care of it.


The portions that the market does the best job taking care of, yes. I'll also point out that just because you don't like an alternative doesn't mean that one doesn't exist.

Quote:
Let big pharma get richer.


As opposed to Obamacare? The ACA creates a "free money" scenario in our health care system. Which will result in every single for profit component of the system gorging themselves. What the **** do you think happens when the government passes a law mandating that everyone must purchase something?

Quote:
Let the poor go to the emergency room for their wellness needs.


The poor will still go to the emergency room for their wellness needs. People need to stop thinking that "the poor" would all be healthy and happy if only they could afford to visit a doctor regularly. You're displaying a complete lack of understanding of the driving issues and problems that "the poor" suffer. I'll give you a hint: It's not actually about lack of money. That's almost always a symptom of the problem, and not a cause.

Quote:
Healthcare is not a market commodity. We've had this argument. It's essential for a healthy, productive society to be, uh, healthy and productive.


It's not that simple though. Trying to hide a full gamut of things from flu shots, to trauma medicine, to cancer treatments, to contraceptives, to anti-depressants under one big umbrella called "health care" is foolish at best. Some of those things we should treat as a human needs issue, others as a commodity. Trying to treat them all the same is a bad idea.

Quote:
The ACA is far from perfect, but government oversight of health care distribution is essential.


The ACA goes far far far beyond oversight.


Quote:
FINALLY, we take that first baby step towards these provisions and the GOP, STILL reeling from non-white guy, community organizer becoming their president refuses to think or act outside of their vindictive ****-hurt ego.


Will you please stop with the freaking racist innuendo? The GOP opposed the same thing when the very white Clintons proposed it back in the 90s. Stop playing the **** race card as a means of defending Obama's agenda. This also gets really freaking tiresome. Can we please just discuss an issue on the merits of the **** issue itself? Just once? What the **** is it with you guys and always countering the conservative position with distractions? "Oh yeah! Well, you're a racist" isn't actually a valid argument.

Edited, Jul 23rd 2014 1:32pm by gbaji
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#25 Jul 23 2014 at 2:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
...and what was your sides idea for health care?
I'm guessing something like this.

Summary article:

Quote:
1. They want to end the tax bias in favor of employer-sponsored health insurance to create full portability (either through a tax credit, deductibility, or another method);

2. They want to reform medical malpractice laws (likely through carrot incentives to the states);

3. They want to allow for insurance purchases across state lines;

4. They want to support state-level pre-existing condition pools;

5. They want to fully block grant Medicaid;

6. They want to shift Medicare to premium support;

7. They want to speed up the FDA device and drug approval process; and

8. They want to maximize the health savings account model, one of the few avenues proven to lower health care spending, making these high deductible + HSA plans more attractive where Obamacare hamstrung them.


I've gotta stop being slow... Smiley: lol

Edited, Jul 23rd 2014 1:29pm by someproteinguy
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#26 Jul 23 2014 at 2:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Every Republican is racist, without exception. Just accept yourself for the racist guy you are, gbaji, you'll be much happier with yourself.
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#27 Jul 23 2014 at 2:39 PM Rating: Decent
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What's so bizarre about the whole "conservatives don't have an alternative plan" is that all of those things were brought up while the ACA was being debated, very loudly and very prominently by conservatives. And were largely ignored or dismissed, whilst the liberal media just basically lied to their viewers saying "the GOP has no plan!!!" over and over (ok, they put Democrats on their broadcasts who said that over and over, which amounts to the same thing). This is why it's so annoying to have people still today repeating that same lie. It's trivially easy to find the information at issue.
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#28 Jul 23 2014 at 2:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Needs a catchy name, like "Jindalcare" or something. No one would forget it then. Smiley: nod
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#29 Jul 23 2014 at 2:56 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Saying something over and over doesn't make it true. It makes you a freaking puppet.
At the risk of repeating myself, pot and kettle.
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#30 Jul 23 2014 at 3:00 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Elinda wrote:
gbaji wrote:

Because "forward" and "better" (or even "good") are not synonymous terms. Going forward towards a cliff isn't a good idea.
...and what was your sides idea for health care?


Well, since 20 seconds on google gets you an answer, you aren't really asking this question seriously, but just repeating it so that it appears as though "my side" has no answer.

Edited, Jul 23rd 2014 1:32pm by gbaji


gbaji's link wrote:


For a better life, Americans need a health care system that they, not the government, control. Consumers should have the ability to choose how to meet their health insurance needs in a free market for insurance. Taxpayers should benefit from a more efficient and affordable system for helping those who need health care but cannot afford it. Above all, patients, with their doctors, should make their own health care decisions free from government interference.


Oh look. The source thread of every argument "your side" has ever made.

The government is evil and incompetent, and putting the choice into the hands of (insert insurance company, bank, big money conglomerate here) is the same thing as letting the consumer choose. Because before Obamacare, everything was decided by the patients and doctors. Yeaaaah.
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#31 Jul 23 2014 at 3:07 PM Rating: Good
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Above all, patients, with their doctors, should make their own health care decisions free from government interference.


Except women. GOP can't have women making their own health care decisions with their doctors, no sirree. Has to be the company they work for. Or their husbands. Or their Senators. Smiley: rolleyes
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#32 Jul 23 2014 at 3:24 PM Rating: Good
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Above all, patients, with their doctors, should make their own health care decisions free from government interference.


Except women. GOP can't have women making their own health care decisions with their doctors, no sirree. Has to be the company they work for. Or their husbands. Or their Senators. Smiley: rolleyes


The rights of the Hobby Lobby brand are more important than the rights of individual human beings.
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#33 Jul 23 2014 at 3:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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The actual argument is that the GOP doesn't have a healthcare reform plan. Which they don't. Certainly not one that's seen Congressional legislative action (versus some vague mission statements). Now, if we're accepting the voice of the Heritage Foundation as gospel for the GOP as a whole then that's something worth writing down for the next time I have to see some whiny "Well, Heritage isn't the Republicans!" backpedaling in response to their inane policies. Whether or not some dingbats who call themselves conservatives have a "plan" is irrelevant to what the Republican party actually intends to do.

But, you know, blah blah liberal media, blah blah Democratic conspiracy blah blah let me recite what Heritage told me to recite blah blah blah
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#34 Jul 23 2014 at 3:52 PM Rating: Decent
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What's so bizarre about the whole "conservatives don't have an alternative plan" is that all of those things were brought up while the ACA was being debated, very loudly and very prominently by conservatives

Nah. "Death panels" was the only thing brought up loudly by conservatives. Probably why you guys got fucking DESTROYED in the hill fight and now have a law that has zero chance of ever being rolled back. Zero. Hahahhaa, ahh, comrade, get ready for single payer in 15 years. You idiots can't even tell when you've been set up for "this doesn't work, let's try..." Hhahahahahahaha. Sucker.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#35 Jul 23 2014 at 10:05 PM Rating: Good
Wasn't there a single-payer plan called "Romneycare" that worked? Were there not people asking why that couldn't be expanded to a national level? Wasn't the GOP answer "liberty" or something like that?

Wasn't there a plan endorsed by the Heritage Foundation that the Democratic party liked and then the GOP said "Uh, no..because..."liberty".



Or am I just remembering all that wrong?
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#36 Jul 24 2014 at 6:03 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:


Will you please stop with the freaking racist innuendo? The GOP opposed the same thing when the very white Clintons proposed it back in the 90s. Stop playing the **** race card as a means of defending Obama's agenda. This also gets really freaking tiresome. Can we please just discuss an issue on the merits of the **** issue itself? Just once? What the **** is it with you guys and always countering the conservative position with distractions? "Oh yeah! Well, you're a racist" isn't actually a valid argument.

It's racism, it's sexism, it's genderism, it's religionism. It's a ruling class feeling threatened by someone who is not one of their own. It's not rational. The steps that have been taken to defeat, repeal, ignore and curse the ACA have not been taken in an effort to improve our health care. Anyone who says so is a fool.

Oh "hi" gbaji.

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#37 Jul 24 2014 at 6:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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No, when people point to that plan by the Heritage Foundation, it doesn't count because they're not the Republican party.
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#38 Jul 24 2014 at 6:41 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Needs a catchy name, like "Jindalcare" or something. No one would forget it then. Smiley: nod


Romneycare.
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#39 Jul 24 2014 at 6:48 AM Rating: Good
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The thing is the ACA really is a pretty conservative plan. The GOP law-makers were very much responsible for molding it into what it is.

It should have been called the Patriot Health Plan or, AmeriCare.

Letting it get dubbed "Obamacare", while certainly legacy making for the Pres, was off-putting for many minions.



Edited, Jul 24th 2014 2:52pm by Elinda
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Except women.
Don't be ridiculous. Viagra is still covered so women can continue being broodmares.
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#41 Jul 24 2014 at 7:26 AM Rating: Good
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Except women.
Don't be ridiculous. Viagra is still covered so women can continue being broodmares.

How hard can it be to avoid conception?

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#42 Jul 24 2014 at 7:32 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
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TILT
lolgaxe wrote:
women can continue being broodmares.

Don't you fight her in Dragon Age?
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#43 Jul 24 2014 at 7:49 AM Rating: Good
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11,287 posts
Elinda wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Catwho wrote:
Except women.
Don't be ridiculous. Viagra is still covered so women can continue being broodmares.

How hard can it be to avoid conception?



How fast can you dodge?
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#44 Jul 24 2014 at 7:50 AM Rating: Good
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Fuck that game.

Come to think of it, Morrigan is kind of like having a tea party guy in your party. You can't walk five steps without being hit with some unspeakably stupid opinion.
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#45 Jul 24 2014 at 9:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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11,864 posts
Timelordwho wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Needs a catchy name, like "Jindalcare" or something. No one would forget it then. Smiley: nod


Romneycare.
It was all well and good until the Democrats had to go and copy it. Smiley: disappointed
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#46 Jul 24 2014 at 9:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Needs a catchy name, like "Jindalcare" or something. No one would forget it then. Smiley: nod
Romneycare.
It was all well and good until the Democrats had to go and copy it. Smiley: disappointed
Then everything changed when the Democrats attacked. Only the Conservative, master of all knowledge, could stop them. But when the world needed him most, he vanished. A hundred years passed and my brother and I discovered the new Conservative, a Californian named gbaji. And although his contrarian skills are great, he still has a lot to learn before he's ready to save anyone. But I believe gbaji can save the world.
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#47 Jul 24 2014 at 12:59 PM Rating: Good
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Then everything changed when the Democrats attacked. Only the Conservative, master of all knowledge, could stop them. But when the world needed him most, he vanished. A hundred years passed and my brother and I discovered the new Conservative, a Californian named gbaji. And although his contrarian skills are great, he still has a lot to learn before he's ready to save anyone. But I believe gbaji can save the world.

Sad that I totally heard that in Katara's voice when I read it.
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#48 Jul 24 2014 at 4:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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28,254 posts
Kavekk wrote:
Fuck that game.

Come to think of it, Morrigan is kind of like having a tea party guy in your party. You can't walk five steps without being hit with some unspeakably stupid opinion.


You can download a mod that lets you slap Morrigan. It's incredibly satisfying.
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