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#102 Jul 09 2014 at 11:52 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
So what exactly did to spend the extra 20 dollars a month on?

Crack cocaine, iPhones, Air Jordans and those color televisions that I've been hearing poor people have. Also, a 150lb sack of lentils so they can make a 55 gal drum of soup and feed a family of six for 12¢ a day.
Sorry to bring up a post from a week ago, but - this is a perfect example of why I am so against having default "Excellent" posting. How can I let you know that this [emphasized part] made me laugh if I upvote you and it doesn't register?

Now, in contrast, here are a couple of considerate people who are much more cooperative and allow for my upvote to register [emphasized part]:

Smasharoo wrote:
While Joph may joke about people being poor because of dumb financial decisions, um... people do actually make really really dumb financial decisions. All the time

So you'd say they act irrationally and need to be protected via regulation because people can't be relied upon to make good decisions and allow market forces to provide the best outcomes?

WELCOME ABOARD, COMRADE!


Glad to see you come around. Or did you forget in your "I'm smarter than idiots!" glory post that your ENTIRE political philosophy relies on the opposite of what you just stated? That people will make good decisions and the market will drive bad options out and enrich everyone efficiently?

Just kidding, you never understood that, huh?

Kavekk wrote:
Triremelordwho wrote:
Exactly. It's not the market's job to do those things. It's some other entities job, some entity which can cause the markets to adjust their behavior.

Oh, fine. But don't say I never do anything for you.

I think I've made my point.

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#103 Jul 09 2014 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
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cynyck wrote:

I think I've made my point.


Before I go into a tangent about Me and My Arrow, what was your point?
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#104 Jul 09 2014 at 4:35 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
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I think it's clear the conversation had turned more general, but way to dodge the point.
I tried to explain conversation progression once. It went about as well as you'd expect.


I think there's a fair amount of difference between "conversation progression" and "changing the subject" though.

Kelvyquayo wrote:
Whether you call it God-given right.. or you call it Natural Law.. Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of happiness..
I think that the "Life" part of that kinda MUST include water.. so to say that access to water isn't a right is just absurd and barbaric.


No one's denying anyone "access to water". So problem solved. Yay!

Quote:
The entire issue just sheds light on the conflict of interest between people trying to make money and doing what is humane.


What people? It's the city of Detroit charging people money for the privilege of having water delivered right into their homes. At quite reasonable rates. What exactly is the problem here?

Quote:
It certainly would be nice if everyone was on an equal playing field of financial responsibility but that simply isn't the reality.. and we can continue pretending that situations like these are just an anomaly but it isn't. It's the way it actually is.


So because someone is less responsible than someone else, they should just get stuff for free? That makes no sense at all.

Quote:
It's the same argument that I have had countless times with conservatives ******** about entitlements.. ***** ***** *****.. hand-outs, welfare, disincentives... and I say "Well what is your answer, then? Let people rot and die in the street?" <crickets>



Except instead of crickets you get a response like "No one's saying to let people rot and die in the street". Same deal here. No one's being denied access to water. Water is freely available to everyone. This isn't some third world country where you have to walk 10 miles along a dirt trail to the closest muddy pond with insect infested water. You can get clean fresh water from public taps within a short walking distance from just about anywhere. I already argued this at length when this thread first started, so it's strange for you to re-hash the exact same arguments that have already been debunked.
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#105 Jul 09 2014 at 4:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Romans had it right, public fountains and baths, doesn't get any better than that.
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#106 Jul 09 2014 at 4:48 PM Rating: Decent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Romans had it right, public fountains and baths, doesn't get any better than that.


Plus... free lead poisoning!
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#107 Jul 09 2014 at 9:54 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
I already argued this at length when this thread first started, so it's strange for you to re-hash the exact same arguments that have already been debunked.


yeah, I've followed. You said somewhere above that access to drinking water is NOT a right.
But in your idea of OK apparently is potentially 1000s of people lined up at a public facility to get the necessities of life. Охуенно!! Smiley: wink

Like I said. That's absurd and barbaric.
I guess it's just an ideological difference in opinion.

I really don't think the fed has any right to give people lessons in how to live their lives. If people are retarded at finances then it may be considered a disability like if someone couldn't see or walk... but that isn't really my issue here.
If certain people were doing their jobs properly instead of using politics as a power grab then we wouldn't have to worry about people bilking the system, would we? In case you were unaware there are plenty of systems in place that are SUPPOSED to ensure that people that can't work or really cannot get their head above water get help and people that are bilking the system get found out...
But the entire system is so stinkingly festered and corrupted that nothing works as it should.
Instead we KEEP people poor with systems that say if you make more than $300 a month than you get no assistance.. This is true because it is the case of my mother. She is not of sound mind to hold any substantial work... and any work that she could ever get to get her off the government tit would mean that she would be unable to pay any bills and would be out on the street. She is truly trapped. If this is the case for a white woman in Maryland then I would imagine that this situation is even worse in places like Detroit.

gbaji wrote:
Water is freely available to everyone. This isn't some third world country where you have to walk 10 miles along a dirt trail to the closest muddy pond with insect infested water.


Then why do water bills exist? It's not "free". Plain and simple.
Yes.. we can drink out of gutters and toilets.. Right. Not a third world country.
gbaji wrote:

So because someone is less responsible than someone else, they should just get stuff for free? That makes no sense at all.


No not stuff, Slippery Slope.. Water. Yes. Water should be free access regardless of the pipes, processing, and filtration. Free. No bill. Take it out of taxes just like for roads, bridges, and other infrastructure. It should be that way for health care to. Let the government do its ******* job and sort out the fiscal details and stop bothering the unwashed masses with it.
gbaji wrote:

What people? It's the city of Detroit charging people money for the privilege of having water delivered right into their homes. At quite reasonable rates. What exactly is the problem here?


Because it's the 21st century. Again, access to water isn't a **** "privilege". It's a right.
If you live in a city then access to water is inevitably going to be limited. So because of this unfortunate fact of life you are OK with the exploitation of that fact with your hands in the pockets of the people that have the ****** fate to live in such a place.
What's the problem? Reasonable rates?? So if people were gasping for air like in Total Recall (the good one) you'd be like "but we gave them reasonable rates!!"
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#108 Jul 10 2014 at 4:39 AM Rating: Good
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Kelvyquayo wrote:
Water should be free access regardless of the pipes, processing, and filtration. Free. No bill. Take it out of taxes just like for roads, bridges, and other infrastructure.


Ya, instead of the local governments charging people for the water processing, the local governments should charge people for the water processing!

(Taxes aren't free money, you know).
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#109 Jul 10 2014 at 6:30 AM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
[quote=Kelvyquayo]Water should be free access regardless of the pipes, processing, and filtration. Free. No bill. Take it out of taxes just like for roads, bridges, and other infrastructure.

Roads and bridges aren't consumables. What if I want to take my water, put it in bottles and sell it?

What if I like to change the water out in my olympic-sized swimming pool daily?

Because of my god-given right to free water piped to my home and back out again, can I just let the dirty chemical laden daily pool water go down the drain at no additional cost to myself?

What if I want to take my water and sprinkle it on my hundreds of acres of farm crops or sell it to BP for frakking?

Water is not limitless, nor equally accessible. It's not only a resource, it's a commodity. Distribution costs are dependent on quantity, quality and distance...not to mention disposal. It has to be regulated, monitored and doled out justly.

Should peoples water be cut off because they can't pay the bill? No of course not, but is allowing all US peoples free and unhindered access to all the water they want, sanitized and piped to the location of their choice, really the answer? Public works fees for water and sewer are not the problem. The problem is poverty.



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#110 Jul 10 2014 at 7:32 AM Rating: Good
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Kelvyquayo wrote:
Free. No bill. Take it out of taxes just like for roads, bridges, and other infrastructure.
You seem to be confused over how that process works.
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#111 Jul 10 2014 at 2:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Kelvyquayo wrote:
gbaji wrote:
I already argued this at length when this thread first started, so it's strange for you to re-hash the exact same arguments that have already been debunked.


yeah, I've followed. You said somewhere above that access to drinking water is NOT a right.


You didn't follow then because I never said that. I said that having water pumped into the taps of your home is not a right. I have spent quite a bit of time and effort making the distinction between delivery of water to people's homes versus basic "access to water", yet you've apparently chosen to ignore it.

Quote:
Like I said. That's absurd and barbaric.


That's not what you said though. You said that Conservatives never have responses for questions like yours, which is not true. We do have responses. You may choose to disagree, but by pretending we don't provide responses at all, you allow yourself to ignore the response (ie: not have to respond to *me*). Which is complete BS. If you disagree, then disagree. But don't pretend that I didn't present a position and an argument in support of that position.


Quote:
I really don't think the fed has any right to give people lessons in how to live their lives.


What fed? This is the city of Detroit. They're shutting off people's water because they haven't paid their bills. Why is this even a thing? If you don't pay for a service, you should not receive that service. Kinda straight forward, right? If we continue to provide water service for these people, then why should anyone pay then? And if no one pays, the city will be in even worse financial shape than it already is and wont be able to provide water for *anyone*. Even in public fountains and whatnot. Because part of that cost subsidizes the "free" water that is available for everyone.

At some point, people have to pay their bills, or the whole system collapses. Where do you suppose the dividing line for "free stuff" should be?


Quote:
gbaji wrote:
Water is freely available to everyone. This isn't some third world country where you have to walk 10 miles along a dirt trail to the closest muddy pond with insect infested water.


Then why do water bills exist? It's not "free". Plain and simple.


Sigh. I've already explained this. Multiple times. The water bill is a charge for the service of having water pumped into your house. If you choose not to pay that bill, then water isn't pumped to your house. It's still available for free in public restrooms, drinking fountains, etc.

What did you think the water bill charged you for? Seriously?

Quote:
Yes.. we can drink out of gutters and toilets.. Right. Not a third world country.


The water that comes out of a public drinking fountain or sink in a public restroom is exactly the same water that comes out of your tap. You're perpetuating this myth as though if you don't have water coming out of the taps in your home, you have no choice but to drink water out of gutters. That's... ridiculous.

Quote:
No not stuff, Slippery Slope.. Water. Yes. Water should be free access regardless of the pipes, processing, and filtration. Free. No bill. Take it out of taxes just like for roads, bridges, and other infrastructure. It should be that way for health care to. Let the government do its @#%^ing job and sort out the fiscal details and stop bothering the unwashed masses with it.


It is sorting out the fiscal details. And that means that it needs to charge people for all those miles of water pipes it's maintaining. You do get that nothing is actually "free", right?

You want free water? Then walk to a public fountain and get it. WTF? You want it "free", but don't even want to expend the effort to walk a block or so to get to it? How freaking lazy can you get?


Quote:
Because it's the 21st century. Again, access to water isn't a **** "privilege". It's a right.


This whole thing is a first world problem though.

Quote:
If you live in a city then access to water is inevitably going to be limited.


WTF!? Have you ever lived in a rural area? Clean drinking water is vastly more available in a city than in the country. Your statement doesn't make any sense at all. If you were talking about some impoverished hicks living in the mountains somewhere, you might have a point to make. But in an urban setting? There's abundant clean water. This is such a contrived issue.
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#112 Jul 10 2014 at 3:10 PM Rating: Good
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Aren't the poor the ones not drinking water for hydration (in other words, not drinking it to live)? I'm sure I read that the poor are drinking nearly twice as much soda as higher income people. Cheap stuff that tastes good and is full of empty calories.
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#113 Jul 10 2014 at 4:33 PM Rating: Good
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Now, in contrast, here are a couple of considerate people who are much more cooperative and allow for my upvote to register

Is it in yet? I don't feel anything.
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#114 Jul 10 2014 at 4:37 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
Now, in contrast, here are a couple of considerate people who are much more cooperative and allow for my upvote to register

Is it in yet? I don't feel anything.


What it's like when trying to rate up Joph.

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#115 Jul 10 2014 at 8:36 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Where do you suppose the dividing line for "free stuff" should be?


That this is ultimately what it boils down to isn't it?

I understand I'm being ultra-utopian in my thinking..(derp!) but, Yes. The dividing line isn't that difficult. Water, Food, Shelter.. to begin with.. I could go on about the right to protect ones self but that is getting off the track. It is clear that there are always going to be social dividing lines. The only way to avoid that is either a population so controlled by drugs, religion, or fear (or some variation).. that social classes and personal wealth are meaningless (except the top of the pyramid).

Pretending like it's such a huge difficulty to make a distinction between privilege and rights is just an excuse to maintain the failed status quo. I'm not suggesting that we feed all of the poor and hungry with gourmet cuisines.. But people don't have to pay bills to get a box of cheese delivered to their houses.

If we have the means to do it then every moment that we are not trying to do it is just a further step into futility.



lolgaxe wrote:
Kelvyquayo wrote:
Free. No bill. Take it out of taxes just like for roads, bridges, and other infrastructure.
You seem to be confused over how that process works.


Where Ever they get their money from, the government pays to build and maintain infrastructure for public use. People certainly don't decide to randomly build highways and bridges wherever they feel like it, do they? Is there a distinction in Taxes between those that drive and do not drive on those roads? I am simply suggesting that certain utilities be payed for the same way. Perhaps there is a good reason that we do not do it that way? I mean, I'm not talking about government repair-men coming to your house like in the movie Brazil. Private companies still get to work and get paid but they get paid via gov. contract and not by billing individual citizens.
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#116 Jul 10 2014 at 8:50 PM Rating: Good
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Kelvyquayo wrote:
Is there a distinction in Taxes between those that drive and do not drive on those roads?


In way, yes. While I cannot speak for all States, in Michigan at least, taxes on gasoline are used to generate funds for the Department of Transportation. When you purchase diesel for off road or equipment vehicles you can fill out paperwork to remove the tax from the purchase, because you won't be using a road with that fuel. If you do not drive, or drive very little, you pay little to no taxes toward this.

I would hazard a guess that it is not unheard of elsewhere in the United States.

Kelvyquayo wrote:
I mean, I'm not talking about government repair-men coming to your house like in the movie Brazil. Private companies still get to work and get paid but they get paid via gov. contract and not by billing individual citizens.


You are still missing the point here. Tax money comes from somewhere. That somewhere being tax payers, the "individual citizens". If they didn't have to pay a water bill, they'd pay more in taxes to cover it anyway. They'd have to find a way to generate revenue to cover that 20 dollars per month the person is no longer paying them.

Never saw the movie Brazil, so I have no idea what the reference you are trying to make is.

Edited, Jul 10th 2014 10:52pm by TirithRR
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#117 Jul 10 2014 at 8:59 PM Rating: Good
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Well then gas tax is a step in the right direction. Bravo.
But everybody does drink water.

Quote:
You are still missing the point here. Tax money comes from somewhere. That somewhere being tax payers, the "individual citizens". If they didn't have to pay a water bill, they'd pay more in taxes to cover it anyway. They'd have to find a way to generate revenue to cover that 20 dollars per month the person is no longer paying them.


I'm aware of this and I'm OK with it. I would imagine that people that aren't paying their water bills aren't paying many other taxes either. It's a matter of how you deal with those people. If other tax payers have to foot the bill for poor people that don't pay any taxes then SO BE IT. That is the price of living in a society that provides for it's citizens.

I'm pretty sure this is how places like UK actually have their ACTUAL "free" healthcare.


Quote:
Never saw the movie Brazil


If you see it, make sure it's the Directors Cut.

Edited, Jul 10th 2014 11:02pm by Kelvyquayo
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#118 Jul 10 2014 at 9:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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TirithRR wrote:
In way, yes. While I cannot speak for all States, in Michigan at least, taxes on gasoline are used to generate funds for the Department of Transportation. When you purchase diesel for off road or equipment vehicles you can fill out paperwork to remove the tax from the purchase, because you won't be using a road with that fuel. If you do not drive, or drive very little, you pay little to no taxes toward this.

In addition to gasoline taxes, vehicle fees (registration, plate fees, title transfers, etc) may go towards the road fund. YMMV state by state.

And, of course, road tolls are a direct tax on using that bit of asphalt.

Edited, Jul 10th 2014 10:11pm by Jophiel
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#119 Jul 10 2014 at 9:10 PM Rating: Good
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Kelvyquayo wrote:
Well then gas tax is a step in the right direction. Bravo.
But everybody does drink water.


But not everyone drinks water supplied by the city water works system, or uses the city sewage system to process all that used water.

My water comes from a well in my front yard that I paid to have installed 20 years ago. (Well, more accurately, father paid, I was only 11 or so at the time). And it's been maintained by myself (or, my father, when I was younger) ever since.

Same with my septic tank, concrete, buried in the back yard. Have to get it cleaned out periodically (Not often, probably twice in the 20 years. Due for a cleaning here soon).

It's also worth noting that, in many locales at least, if you are on city water, and you have things like irrigation, you can get a second meter to measure that water usage, which the sewage rate is dropped from, because that water does not end up in the city's sewage treatment. Because, as shown, they are charging for the usage of the system, to keep it operational.

Quote:
I would imagine that people that aren't paying their water bills aren't paying many other taxes either.


I would imagine they are. There are many more taxes beyond that number people see on their returns once a year.

I'd also imagine any tax implemented to replace charging for using the city water system would have to be implemented on the local level, like an income tax on people residing within the city water/sewage service zone, else a State or Federal level tax would end up lost in the bureaucracy and some cities would be neglected, as per the usual.

Edited, Jul 10th 2014 11:13pm by TirithRR
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#120 Jul 10 2014 at 9:16 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
And, of course, road tolls are a direct tax on using that bit of asphalt.

I was under the impression that toll roads were private, not government/DoT things.
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#121 Jul 10 2014 at 9:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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I imagine that (in the eastern US anyway) it's largely the opposite. Given that a cooperative of various state agencies runs the EZ-Pass system.

In Illinois it's certainly state administered with the notable exception of the Chicago Skyway which was leased to a private firm during a stint where the city had a contest with itself to see what was the shittiest leasing deal it could get for privatizing parts of the city infrastructure.
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#122 Jul 11 2014 at 7:15 AM Rating: Good
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PeachPass in GA is run by the GDT.

It's not as popular as they had hoped because its sole purpose is to make the sh*tty commute in Atlanta slightly less sh*tty.

Edited, Jul 11th 2014 9:16am by Catwho
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#123 Jul 11 2014 at 7:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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The EZ-Pass system is nice. A few states (IL included) have their own systems but tie into it as well. I can drive from Chicago to Washington DC and have all the tolls taken out of the one account via the one transponder.
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#124 Jul 11 2014 at 7:37 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I can drive from Chicago to Washington DC and have all the tolls taken out of the one account via the one transponder.
I think the range is from Illinois to Maine. I believe there is five or six different systems throughout the country, but they're only state wide.
Catwho wrote:
PeachPass in GA is run by the GDT.
EZ Pass is a bad enough name but really?
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#125 Jul 11 2014 at 8:14 AM Rating: Good
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I know very little about the toll roads. Extent of my experience is the few times a year I have to get from I-94 W to I-57 S and pay $1.10 to use I-80 for about 4 miles. I didn't notice any EZ Pass on the exit I was using. Seemed to be a relatively low tech toll booth.

Coworker if mine tried to bypass the toll route one trip and ended up in some shady looking section of Chicago, kind of lost trying to get back to the freeway.
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#126 Jul 11 2014 at 9:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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TirithRR wrote:
It's also worth noting that, in many locales at least, if you are on city water, and you have things like irrigation, you can get a second meter to measure that water usage, which the sewage rate is dropped from, because that water does not end up in the city's sewage treatment. Because, as shown, they are charging for the usage of the system, to keep it operational.
Along this line if we voted to have some other way to cover the first $20/person of water or what not at a residence and only have people pay out of pocket for overages I wouldn't be heart broken. Though it would probably be a needless complicated compromise.

Also you people and your silly toll roads. Smiley: oyvey
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#127 Jul 11 2014 at 9:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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TirithRR wrote:
I know very little about the toll roads. Extent of my experience is the few times a year I have to get from I-94 W to I-57 S and pay $1.10 to use I-80 for about 4 miles. I didn't notice any EZ Pass on the exit I was using. Seemed to be a relatively low tech toll booth.

All the Illinois tolls are rigged for I-Pass (the IL version of EZ Pass). In fact, if you're not using an I-Pass transponder and pay cash, you have to pay double the normal amount.
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#128 Jul 11 2014 at 10:12 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
I can drive from Chicago to Washington DC and have all the tolls taken out of the one account via the one transponder.
I think the range is from Illinois to Maine. I believe there is five or six different systems throughout the country, but they're only state wide.
Catwho wrote:
PeachPass in GA is run by the GDT.
EZ Pass is a bad enough name but really?


Really.
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#129 Jul 11 2014 at 10:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well that's just peachy.
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#130 Jul 11 2014 at 10:19 AM Rating: Good
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Obligatory: Kinda puts you in the mood for peaches, don't it?
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#131 Jul 11 2014 at 10:21 AM Rating: Good
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#132 Jul 11 2014 at 10:26 AM Rating: Good
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cynyck wrote:

I think I've made my point.


Before I go into a tangent about Me and My Arrow, what was your point?
What point? One of my posts had a point? Those damned kitchen spammers are hacking accounts now too?!?!??

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#133 Jul 11 2014 at 11:52 AM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Obligatory: Kinda puts you in the mood for peaches, don't it?

Puts me in the mood for some Allman Brothers Band.
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Kelvyquayo wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Where do you suppose the dividing line for "free stuff" should be?


That this is ultimately what it boils down to isn't it?


Always does.

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I understand I'm being ultra-utopian in my thinking..(derp!) but, Yes. The dividing line isn't that difficult. Water, Food, Shelter.. to begin with.


Ok. What how much water? What kind of food and shelter? What quality of those things? How should it be delivered? How much convenience should come with it? It's easy to say "let's just provide basic necessities", but we always seem to experience a creep of what these "rights" entail and need to be at least aware of that fact.


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Pretending like it's such a huge difficulty to make a distinction between privilege and rights is just an excuse to maintain the failed status quo.


Except that people do have a problem making that distinction. Else we would not be talking about having water run to the taps in your home as a "right".

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I'm not suggesting that we feed all of the poor and hungry with gourmet cuisines.


Aren't you though (the equivalent anyway)? A large portion of the worlds population would consider water run directly to their homes as a massive privilege/extravagance and are struggling just to have water that wont make them sick somewhere within a hour or so walk from their homes. As I mentioned earlier, this is entirely a first world problem.


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If we have the means to do it then every moment that we are not trying to do it is just a further step into futility.


I'm not even sure what this means. So because we *can* do something, we must? There are a nearly infinite number of things we *can* do. But if we attempt do all of them, we'll find that we run out of means quite quickly. We don't have infinite resources and have to prioritize our funds. As a couple people have already mentioned, what are you not going to spend public money on in order to do this subsidy? Let's assume we do decide to provide the first $20/month of basic service "free" to everyone. Great, right? Now expand that to a city of say a million people. Now we're talking about $20 million dollars a month we're pulling from the tax base to provide free tap water to everyone's homes, that isn't paying for say roads, or schools, or fire and police services, or parks, or any of a number of other things that our tax dollars pay for. Who decides which of those things we don't fund because we've decided that having basic water/sewage service run to your home is a "right"?


I'm a conservative (shocker). But I'm a Republican, not a Libertarian. I do believe that government should provide certain services to the community it serves. However, those services should be balanced against the basic concept that people should pay as much of the cost of the things that most directly benefit them (or which they use the most) as possible. As others have mentioned, it's why we fund road building mostly from taxes levied on activities which most use those roads. It's why public schools receive most of their funding from property taxes in the area they serve. The broader the service, the broader the taxes you can/should apply to it. So building a water infrastructure that all can use is fine. But it's quite reasonable to charge people for the use of the "last mile" of that infrastructure that runs into their own homes. Because that part of the system is less a right than a privilege IMO. And to be honest, the cost is pretty darn reasonable.


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Is there a distinction in Taxes between those that drive and do not drive on those roads? I am simply suggesting that certain utilities be payed for the same way.


That's exactly how utilities are paid for.

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Perhaps there is a good reason that we do not do it that way?


Except we do do it that way, and there are very good reasons why.


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I mean, I'm not talking about government repair-men coming to your house like in the movie Brazil. Private companies still get to work and get paid but they get paid via gov. contract and not by billing individual citizens.


The money still has to come from somewhere. As I mentioned earlier, nothing is really "free". It costs money to build and maintain water and sewer systems. Who do you suppose should pay for this, if not those using those systems?
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#135 Jul 11 2014 at 6:25 PM Rating: Good
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The money still has to come from somewhere. As I mentioned earlier, nothing is really "free". It costs money to build and maintain water and sewer systems. Who do you suppose should pay for this, if not those using those systems?

Those benefiting the most from the economic system in use. In Communism, everyone equally. In Feudalism, the local lord. In Capitalism, those controlling the most wealth.

Not ******* rocket science. If you want everyone to pay for things on their own, you're a socialist, because that's what socialism is. From each to each.

You moron.

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#136 Jul 11 2014 at 6:43 PM Rating: Decent
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That wasn't even a good attempt at gibberish Smash. Try again!
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#137 Jul 11 2014 at 10:58 PM Rating: Decent
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That wasn't even a good attempt at gibberish Smash. Try again!

Really? Seemed pretty clear to me. I asked several 5 year old children to read it, they all understood. Maybe if you close your eyes and spin around three times you'll just intuitively know what it meant, like the way you sussed out long division in the womb.

Just kidding, I'm amazed you can read to be honest.
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#138 Jul 13 2014 at 6:52 AM Rating: Good
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I got a well. It's a good well. Gubbermints not gonna take my water.
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#139 Jul 13 2014 at 9:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Not only do I have a private well, I'm also a stone's throw from the Hudson River, and...I just threw up in my mouth a little.

But it's *nothing* like city water. City water is so abundant and available that it has to get piped down from mountain lakes a hundred miles away.
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#140 Jul 13 2014 at 9:22 AM Rating: Good
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My well water is very clean, tastes good. All the sand in West Michigan must act like a good filter. The only filter I have in line is the one at the main pump,
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#141 Jul 16 2014 at 6:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:
That wasn't even a good attempt at gibberish Smash. Try again!

Really? Seemed pretty clear to me. I asked several 5 year old children to read it, they all understood.


The words? Sure. But put together, they make no sense. So, according to you, the following is how each type of system determines who pays for the goods they receive:

1. In Communism, a system based on "to each according to his need; from each according to his ability", it's "everyone equally" (No, it's not. It's those who have the ability to pay).

2. In Feudalism, a system based on peasant labor being controlled by a Lord, who takes his share from the people in return for providing them with services and protection, it's "the local Lord" (no, it's not. It's the peasants because that's precisely the contract that defines feudalism).

3. In Capitalism, a system based on each person paying their own way, it's "those with the most wealth" (No, it's not, for freaking obvious reasons).

4. And apparently, in Socialism , a system based on state control of industry, you think that's where everyone pays for themselves (no, it's not cause socialism really doesn't even address that concept, but to the degree it does, it's far more like communism).

You got every freaking social/economic system wrong. Not just a little bit wrong, but completely and laughably wrong. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and just assumed you did this intentionally as some kind of weird Smasharoo mental thing (you say something completely absurd and see who will call you on it maybe? Dunno). Hence my response. Now, if that really was just you not understanding the most basic concepts of those various systems, then I apologize. It wasn't "bad gibberish", it was actual ignorance at work. Totally different thing!
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#142 Jul 16 2014 at 6:44 PM Rating: Decent
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In Communism, a system based on "to each according to his need; from each according to his ability", it's "everyone equally" (No, it's not. It's those who have the ability to pay).

You don't understand Communism.

Do you see why? Here's a hint: there's no property in Communism. No taxes. No means of exchange because there is no exchange required, people are freely given what they need.

3. In Capitalism, a system based on each person paying their own way, it's "those with the most wealth" (No, it's not, for freaking obvious reasons).


So just to be clear, you don't think those with the most wealth carry the burden for paying for social services? Fascinating. Good to know, Comrade.

You got every freaking social/economic system wrong. Not just a little bit wrong, but completely and laughably wrong.


Oh yes, one of us did. I can see why you'd assume that would be me, but really....do you *really* think that's likely? Or do you , just perhaps, think that maybe, just maybe, your skimming Wikipedia isn't equivalent to my Ivy League education? Maybe? Might you be missing the point, perhaps? Do you think? Possibly? Eh? Eh......?

Edited, Jul 16th 2014 8:47pm by Smasharoo
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#143 Jul 16 2014 at 7:15 PM Rating: Good
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To be fair, a lot of stupid people have studied at the Ivy League, and they're still stupid ***** when they come out the other end.

Also, my sixth form common room had a Ivy League poster stuck up that someone had defaced to read 'HIvy League', so you might want to get yourself checked.
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#144 Jul 16 2014 at 7:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Also, my sixth form common room had a Ivy League poster stuck up that someone had defaced to read 'HIvy League', so you might want to get yourself checked.


No, no, I understand why someone would cross out the Y and add an H.
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#145 Jul 16 2014 at 7:52 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:

Also, my sixth form common room had a Ivy League poster stuck up that someone had defaced to read 'HIvy League', so you might want to get yourself checked.


No, no, I understand why someone would cross out the Y and add an H.


You reds really don't like the blue team do ya.
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#146 Jul 16 2014 at 7:54 PM Rating: Good
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Kavekk wrote:
To be fair, a lot of stupid people have studied at the Ivy League, and they're still stupid @#%^s when they come out the other end.

Also, my sixth form common room had a Ivy League poster stuck up that someone had defaced to read 'HIvy League', so you might want to get yourself checked.


Ehh, you are always asking for trouble when you equate smart with educated.
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#147 Jul 16 2014 at 8:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Maybe, but I still prefer educated idiots to ignorant idiots. They may not understand the symbolism, but at least they can discuss the plot.

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#148 Jul 16 2014 at 8:31 PM Rating: Decent
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You reds really don't like the blue team do ya.

All in good fun. Someone has to work for CIA and McDonalds. Honestly the Porcellian vs Skull and Bones softball games are the best part.
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#149 Jul 16 2014 at 8:39 PM Rating: Default
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Samira wrote:
Maybe, but I still prefer educated idiots to ignorant idiots. They may not understand the symbolism, but at least they can discuss the plot.



Sure, symbology embiggens the most crumulent amongst us. Still, at least with ignorant idiots, you know what you are dealing with. With the educated ones you keep wondering.. is it a case of Peter Sellers?

Edited, Jul 16th 2014 10:57pm by angrymnk
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#150 Jul 17 2014 at 7:16 AM Rating: Decent
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is it a case of Peter Sellers?

Chauncey Gardner. Unless you're implying that Sellers was some sort of idiot who fooled people into thinking he was a fine actor.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#151 Jul 17 2014 at 7:43 AM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
Maybe, but I still prefer educated idiots to ignorant idiots.
I like ignorant idiots because they're easier to spot.
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