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#52 Jul 02 2014 at 7:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
So what exactly did to spend the extra 20 dollars a month on?

Crack cocaine, iPhones, Air Jordans and those color televisions that I've been hearing poor people have. Also, a 150lb sack of lentils so they can make a 55 gal drum of soup and feed a family of six for 12¢ a day.



Joke's on them. They won't be makin' much soup without water. Stoopid poors.
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#53 Jul 02 2014 at 7:29 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
So what exactly did to spend the extra 20 dollars a month on?

Crack cocaine, iPhones, Air Jordans and those color televisions that I've been hearing poor people have. Also, a 150lb sack of lentils so they can make a 55 gal drum of soup and feed a family of six for 12¢ a day.



Joke's on them. They won't be makin' much soup without water. Stoopid poors.


In that case they'd just have to put a barrel under the gutter. Problem solved.

Just keep it out in the sun long enough to heat it up and sterilize it. I'm sure that works.
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#54 Jul 02 2014 at 8:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well the **** is going on here? Smiley: confused

TirithRR wrote:
Is it made worse because guy #2 gets to pretend he's better off than guy #1 for 2 months out of the quarter, until it catches up with him and he realizes he's just as @#%^ed as guy #1?
Basically. He's living the high life squandering away the money on expensive indulgences, you know like snickers bars and stuff, then when the time comes to pay the tab he's screwed because he didn't plan properly and is less likely to scrounge up the money he needs in time.
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#55 Jul 02 2014 at 9:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Samira wrote:
Joke's on them. They won't be makin' much soup without water. Stoopid poors.

Just gotta bring your lentils down to the public park, yo.
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#56 Jul 02 2014 at 9:58 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Well the **** is going on here? Smiley: confused

TirithRR wrote:
Is it made worse because guy #2 gets to pretend he's better off than guy #1 for 2 months out of the quarter, until it catches up with him and he realizes he's just as @#%^ed as guy #1?
Basically. He's living the high life squandering away the money on expensive indulgences, you know like snickers bars and stuff, then when the time comes to pay the tab he's screwed because he didn't plan properly and is less likely to scrounge up the money he needs in time.


All joking and exaggeration aside, it is pretty much the only difference between him and guy #1. The difference between the two is just what they decide to do with that 20 dollars per month that each of them has to pay. One is forced to pay it every month (well, not forced, he could chose not to pay it as well and spend the money elsewhere). The other is given the choice to spend it elsewhere instead and only "forced" to pay it after 3 months. Both of them may have needs for that money elsewhere, but the difference between the two options is only in their minds.
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#57 Jul 03 2014 at 12:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well yeah, of course it it's in their minds, that was the whole point. Smiley: motz

Edited, Jul 2nd 2014 11:56pm by someproteinguy
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#58 Jul 03 2014 at 1:33 AM Rating: Good
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Yes, some "people" believe that budgeting and finances are magic, so they just spend all the money they have on hand.

Whenever they get an "unexpected" expense, they can't pay for it, and have to solve the problem in a jacked up way.
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#59 Jul 03 2014 at 7:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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Timelordwho wrote:
Yes, some "people" believe that budgeting and finances are magic, so they just spend all the money they have on hand.

Budgeting and money management are skills that poor people often lack. This isn't why they're poor but rather when every expenditure is an emergency, you learn to just spend the money as soon as you get it because it's going to immediately disappear anyway.

A lot of better off people lack the same skills, of course. They just run up big credit card bills and debt or else make enough to absorb their paycheck to paycheck spending.
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#60 Jul 03 2014 at 8:18 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
Yes, some "people" believe that budgeting and finances are magic, so they just spend all the money they have on hand.

Budgeting and money management are skills that poor people often lack. This isn't why they're poor but rather when every expenditure is an emergency, you learn to just spend the money as soon as you get it because it's going to immediately disappear anyway.

A lot of better off people lack the same skills, of course. They just run up big credit card bills and debt or else make enough to absorb their paycheck to paycheck spending.

If you're anything like my relatives, you just let the water bill get bad enough to get shut off and then open a new account in one of your kids' names. Sure, if they shut if off every six months you'll run out of kids to use in like four years, but that's okay. That's four years from now's problem.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2014 8:19am by Poldaran
#61 Jul 03 2014 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
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Sounds like they're lovely people.
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#62 Jul 03 2014 at 12:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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#63 Jul 03 2014 at 12:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Pity they couldn't finagle things a bit and stretch that out a couple of more months. A touch more effort and you could put off paying indefinitely.
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#64 Jul 03 2014 at 2:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Tirith, it's basically the same reason why people can manage to pay $49.99/month for 12 months to finance a TV, but can't save up $500 for the same, even though the latter would save the money. While Joph may joke about people being poor because of dumb financial decisions, um... people do actually make really really dumb financial decisions. All the time. And not just the poor. It just hurts the poor more because they have far less buffer to work with.
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#65 Jul 03 2014 at 2:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
While Joph may joke about people being poor because of dumb financial decisions, um... people do actually make really really dumb financial decisions. All the time. And not just the poor. It just hurts the poor more because they have far less buffer to work with.

Post #59 Smiley: thumbsup
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#66 Jul 03 2014 at 2:52 PM Rating: Excellent
That doesn't increase your wordcount joph!
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#67 Jul 03 2014 at 3:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
While Joph may joke about people being poor because of dumb financial decisions, um... people do actually make really really dumb financial decisions. All the time. And not just the poor. It just hurts the poor more because they have far less buffer to work with.

Post #59 Smiley: thumbsup


Yeah yeah yeah. Was still reading the previous page. So gold star for you then!
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#68 Jul 03 2014 at 4:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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While Joph may joke about people being poor because of dumb financial decisions, um... people do actually make really really dumb financial decisions. All the time

So you'd say they act irrationally and need to be protected via regulation because people can't be relied upon to make good decisions and allow market forces to provide the best outcomes?

WELCOME ABOARD, COMRADE!

Glad to see you come around. Or did you forget in your "I'm smarter than idiots!" glory post that your ENTIRE political philosophy relies on the opposite of what you just stated? That people will make good decisions and the market will drive bad options out and enrich everyone efficiently?

Just kidding, you never understood that, huh?
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#69 Jul 03 2014 at 4:35 PM Rating: Good
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Welcome to the losing side, ☭baji.
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#70 Jul 03 2014 at 6:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:
While Joph may joke about people being poor because of dumb financial decisions, um... people do actually make really really dumb financial decisions. All the time

So you'd say they act irrationally and need to be protected via regulation...


Nope. People act irrationally, and it's their right to do so if they want. We can attempt to teach people how to make good rational decisions, but it's not our job to force them to do so. Liberty somewhat requires that people be free to make poor decisions.


Quote:
... because people can't be relied upon to make good decisions and allow market forces to provide the best outcomes?


Market forces will respond to any action people make. It's not about "best outcomes", it's about "correct outcomes". If you allow the market to react to people's decisions, then poor decisions will (usually) result in poor outcomes, which in turn acts as a natural deterrent to making poor decisions. If you attempt to correct for those market outcomes, then you reduce the odds that people will learn from their mistakes. They'll keep making poor decisions and statistically suffer even more over time.

In other words, if people can't pay their water bills because they decide to spend money on other things instead, then that's their choice. We have to let them suffer the consequences. Attempting to protect them from this will hurt them in the long run. Yes. Harsh world. Fair world is more important.


Quote:
Glad to see you come around. Or did you forget in your "I'm smarter than idiots!" glory post that your ENTIRE political philosophy relies on the opposite of what you just stated?


Um... It rests on the opposite of what *you* just stated.

Quote:
That people will make good decisions and the market will drive bad options out and enrich everyone efficiently?


It's not the markets job to drive out bad options or to enrich everyone efficiently. The fact that you think this (or pretend to think this) is your problem, not mine. I'm under no illusions that the market does anything more than respond fairly and correctly to what people do. I happen to *also* believe that if you allow this response, that it gives people the best environment in which to make the best decisions possible and maximizes the odds that they'll experience good outcomes. But by no means does the market guarantee that, nor is it correct to claim that a negative market outcome is some kind of failure of the market itself.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2014 5:19pm by gbaji
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#71 Jul 03 2014 at 6:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Market forces will respond to any action people make. It's not about "best outcomes", it's about "correct outcomes". If you allow the market to react to people's decisions, then poor decisions will result in poor outcomes, which in turn acts as a natural deterrent to making poor decisions


Really?

How? How does that mechanism work, exactly. How does someone making a bad decision prevent them from making bad decisions, because I heard that they do it "all the time" so apparently you've contradicted yourself again. It can't be both, sadly :(. Which time were you wrong, would you say? I mean I know you're making it up each post, obviously, there's been no thought put into it all, you aren't capable of that, but explain to me how the deterrent failed with people who make these mistakes "all the time"?

I'm just kidding, don't. I'm just going to laugh about you cornering yourself so deftly with virtually no effort on my part.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#72 Jul 03 2014 at 6:54 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
It's not the markets job to drive out bad options or to enrich everyone efficiently. The fact that you think this (or pretend to think this) is your problem, not mine. I'm under no illusions that the market does anything more than respond fairly and correctly to what people do. I happen to *also* believe that if you allow this response, that it gives people the best environment in which to make the best decisions possible and maximizes the odds that they'll experience good outcomes. But by no means does the market guarantee that, nor is it correct to claim that a negative market outcome is some kind of failure of the market itself.


Exactly. It's not the market's job to do those things. It's some other entities job, some entity which can cause the markets to adjust their behavior.
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#73 Jul 03 2014 at 7:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:

Market forces will respond to any action people make. It's not about "best outcomes", it's about "correct outcomes". If you allow the market to react to people's decisions, then poor decisions will result in poor outcomes, which in turn acts as a natural deterrent to making poor decisions


Really?

How? How does that mechanism work, exactly. How does someone making a bad decision prevent them from making bad decisions...


It doesn't. Nothing "prevents" them from doing anything. What part of "freedom to make poor choices" do you not understand?

It does, as I clearly stated in the portion of my post which you quoted, act as a deterrent to making poor decisions. Which is not the same thing as preventing them from making poor decisions. See. Cause in my world we should allow people to have all the information they need and then grant them the freedom to make their own decisions, and in your world you force them to do what you think is best for them.
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#74 Jul 03 2014 at 7:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Timelordwho wrote:
Quote:
It's not the markets job to drive out bad options or to enrich everyone efficiently. The fact that you think this (or pretend to think this) is your problem, not mine. I'm under no illusions that the market does anything more than respond fairly and correctly to what people do. I happen to *also* believe that if you allow this response, that it gives people the best environment in which to make the best decisions possible and maximizes the odds that they'll experience good outcomes. But by no means does the market guarantee that, nor is it correct to claim that a negative market outcome is some kind of failure of the market itself.


Exactly. It's not the market's job to do those things. It's some other entities job, some entity which can cause the markets to adjust their behavior.


Sure. And if you want to live in an authoritarian regime, then it is absolutely the job of the government to tell you what to do. The question is whether that's what we actually want. And the larger point is to make sure that people are aware that this is the choice they are making. Do we want a government that is empowered to make those choices for us? Because the consequence of having freedom is that some percentage of the population will *always* make bad choices. They'll blow their money on hookers and booze instead of putting food on the table, or they'll waste their money on a "sure thing" and lose, or they'll drop out of school to spend more time with their buddies and end out (hahaha!) in and out of prison for the next ten years.

Does the cost of those failures justify the loss of freedom that would be required to prevent them? I don't think so. Thus, preventing those outcomes is something that we should not do. We have to let people suffer the consequences of their actions because anything else ultimately infringes the freedom of us all. Yes, that can be harsh. But, as I said earlier, it is fair.
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#75 Jul 03 2014 at 8:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Cause in my world we should allow people to have all the information they need and then grant them the freedom to make their own decisions,
ITT: gbaji advocates for free post-secondary education.

gbaji wrote:
Because the consequence of having freedom is that some percentage of the population will *always* make bad choices.
also: Abortion
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#76 Jul 03 2014 at 8:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Cause in my world we should allow people to have all the information they need and then grant them the freedom to make their own decisions,
ITT: gbaji advocates for free post-secondary education.


Allowing and providing are two different things.

Quote:
gbaji wrote:
Because the consequence of having freedom is that some percentage of the population will *always* make bad choices.
also: Abortion


What about abortion?
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