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#202 Jul 15 2014 at 6:18 AM Rating: Default
Almalieque
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Not to pick on you, but I'm catching up and it's easier to reply to one person.

Gbaji wrote:
AA is just an extreme example of this. It's done to win over black votes.


That's a very shallow thought. Ever thought that maybe, just maybe, Democrats actually believe in what they propose? I know politicians tend to do exactly what you are implying, but to believe that any support for AA is false is shallow.

Gbaji wrote:
Obama's "help" of illegal minors via DACA had everything to do with winning Latino votes. The long term effects (often negative) on those being "helped" is secondary to those immediate political benefits.


Likewise with the Republicans. There is no incentive to fight for the immigrants as Republicans fear of losing their base. You're trying to pretend that Republicans are some special type of politician that don't do the same things that you accuse Democrats for doing.
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#203 Jul 15 2014 at 10:09 AM Rating: Good
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Affirmative action treats a symptom, not the disease.
If the disease doesn't affect someone then doing anything else is just an overpriced expenditure. Smiley: schooled
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#204 Jul 15 2014 at 11:09 AM Rating: Good
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It's a tough call

No it isn't. Or did you mean in The Land of Make Believe where institutional racism isn't still a crippling dynamic in US life? There it might be a tough call, I guess. In the shared reality we all actually exist in, it's a miserable compensation for the oppressed victims of racism who manage to rise up in spite of it. A miniscule advantage only post hoc overcoming racism that it's almost embarrassing in it's inadequacy.

Poor white people are disadvantaged, but nothing even vaguely comparable to poor black people, or really, middle class black people in most cases. Yeah, Sasha Obama might be eligible for AA and that's sh*tty, but there's not a fairer way to do it at present. Life is like that.

Edited, Jul 15th 2014 1:10pm by Smasharoo
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#205 Jul 15 2014 at 11:24 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah, Sasha Obama might be eligible for AA and that's sh*tty, but there's not a fairer way to do it at present. Life is like that.


What if you had separate jobs and university spaces set aside just for black people?
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#206 Jul 15 2014 at 11:27 AM Rating: Decent
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What if you had separate jobs and university spaces set aside just for black people?

Yeah...and water fountains.
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#207 Jul 15 2014 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
What if you had separate jobs and university spaces set aside just for black people?

Yeah...and water fountains.
The solution to Detroit's problems!
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#208 Jul 15 2014 at 11:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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If it wasn't for civil rights we wouldn't have water problems in Detroit. Seriously people, the 50's were awesome, do you need more proof?
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#209 Jul 15 2014 at 1:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Senator McCarthy certainly seemed to enjoy them, at least the first few years.
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#210 Jul 15 2014 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good
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Really? I heard he found them quite trying.
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#211 Jul 15 2014 at 3:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Timelordwho wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
Helpful image for gbaji:


That's cute, as long as one doesn't realize that the picture labeled as "justice" isn't justice. Justice offsets injustice. Meaning that it only exists within the context of unjust actions. If I take something from you, justice would require (at a minimum) that it be taken from me and returned to you. Justice does not act to offset natural conditions. The tall person did not take height from the short person. Thus, no system of justice would require that his box be taken from him and given to the short person in order to balance out their respective heights.

This, in a nutshell, is where most people go wrong with the concept of rights, liberty, justice, etc. They fail to understand the difference between naturally occurring conditions and those imposed on one by someone else. Government can and should act to adjust for the latter, but while it *may* act to adjust for the former, it is not required, and it's absolutely not "unfair" or "unjust" for it not to.


The image is helpful at illustrating how people apply incorrect labels to things though. So thanks, I guess.


Well, if it wasn't so taboo, almost all of us could be tall, and allocate boxes for the few who weren't. Unfortunately, we live in a society where the only solutions are moving around of the boxes or leaving them where random chance allows them to end up.


Or, and maybe this highlights yet another difference between liberal and conservative thought: Lower/eliminate the fence. Then, it doesn't matter who is taller or who has a box. Shocking solution. I know.
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#212 Jul 15 2014 at 3:45 PM Rating: Good
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Or, and maybe this highlights yet another difference between liberal and conservative thought: Lower/eliminate the fence. Then, it doesn't matter who is taller or who has a box. Shocking solution. I know.

Magic beans! Plant magic beans and the short people can climb the magic beanstalk. You don't have any magic beans? Don't worry, we've developed a policy of putting higher and higher fences up which will give the tall people incentive to drop beans on the ground! Why hasn't it ever worked in the history of humanity, this waiting for the advantaged to help the disadvantaged? WE DON'T KNOW!!! We all agree how nice and generous everyone is, it's just one of God's mysteries.
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#213 Jul 15 2014 at 3:45 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
Or, and maybe this highlights yet another difference between liberal and conservative thought: Lower/eliminate the fence. Then, it doesn't matter who is taller or who has a box. Shocking solution. I know.

How, exactly, would that apply to the issue we're discussing? Eliminating the hurdles and barriers present? Great idea, let's just eradicate all prejudices and biases in our culture and society. Presto! Equality for all.


Edited, Jul 15th 2014 5:46pm by Debalic
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#214 Jul 15 2014 at 3:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Debalic wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Or, and maybe this highlights yet another difference between liberal and conservative thought: Lower/eliminate the fence. Then, it doesn't matter who is taller or who has a box. Shocking solution. I know.

How, exactly, would that apply to the issue we're discussing? Eliminating the hurdles and barriers present? Great idea, let's just eradicate all prejudices and biases in our culture and society. Presto! Equality for all.


Edited, Jul 15th 2014 5:46pm by Debalic
The point would be to lower the effort to succeed to the point where any yahoo with a couple of brain cells could make a decent living, and the incentives for making more than is necessary are minimal. Basically success would be such a guarantee that it wouldn't matter what shortcomings you had, and those that were better off wouldn't really get a better view of the game.

Failing that we throw a big party and give everyone a trophy. Smiley: nod

Edit: For the record I have no idea how we get there, or what this has to do with conservative ideals. So obviously we should give all our money to the scientists so they can invent awesome fence-lowering devices.

Edited, Jul 15th 2014 2:58pm by someproteinguy
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#215 Jul 15 2014 at 3:51 PM Rating: Good
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Or, and maybe this highlights yet another difference between liberal and conservative thought: Lower/eliminate the fence. Then, it doesn't matter who is taller or who has a box. Shocking solution. I know.


I didn't know eecummings was a conservative forum troll.
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#216 Jul 15 2014 at 3:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
The point would be to lower the effort to succeed to the point where any yahoo with a couple of brain cells could make a decent living, and the incentives for making more than is necessary are minimal. Basically success would be such a guarantee that it wouldn't matter what shortcomings you had, and those that were better off wouldn't really get a better view of the game.


So, bring back manufacturing jobs. Great! Get on that.
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#217 Jul 15 2014 at 4:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Samira wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
The point would be to lower the effort to succeed to the point where any yahoo with a couple of brain cells could make a decent living, and the incentives for making more than is necessary are minimal. Basically success would be such a guarantee that it wouldn't matter what shortcomings you had, and those that were better off wouldn't really get a better view of the game.


So, bring back manufacturing jobs. Great! Get on that.
Naw that wouldn't even scratch the surface. Besides to do that we'd have to bomb an awful lot of people first, and the liberals would have a hissy fit about it. Smiley: disappointed

What we really need is some way to get free food, water, shelter, health care, security, transportation and entertainment (am I missing anything?) to everyone. Then the fence will be gone. Whoever made this world didn't do a very good job of documenting the cheat codes.

Edited, Jul 15th 2014 3:28pm by someproteinguy
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#218 Jul 15 2014 at 4:19 PM Rating: Default
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Tirith wrote:
I don't think that the policies to help those races should be targeting them by race though.


Again, in an ideal scenario. You can't create laws that target races negatively, then say "oh, we can't create laws that target races positively to undo wrong doing, because that's wrong". Should have thought of that BEFORE enslaving a group of people.

Tirith wrote:
The legitimate concern is that what happens to these laws as things do get better?


They change.

Tirith wrote:
You would have benefits coded into law for specific races, when do they disappear?

When the situation changes.

Tirith wrote:
And then what happens when there are people stuck in a similar location, possibly even neighbors, who aren't the right race to get the benefits?

We change the law. Besides, no one is in the same scenario. Every struggle is unique.

Tirith wrote:
The focus should be on the economic position the people are in. The issue being that the past racist policies have left the a disproportionate number of minorities in these poor conditions. Truly help the poor, you help the minorities, but in a way that could evolve to help anyone stuck in those positions rather than just specific races.


The racial policies haven't left though, that's the problem. you think Shaniqua Thompson or Muhammad Thompson are getting a phone call over Sarah or Mike Thompson?


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#219 Jul 15 2014 at 4:29 PM Rating: Good
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What we really need is someway to get free food, water, shelter, health care, security, transportation and entertainment (am I missing anything?) to everyone.

Could do this tomorrow if the ultra wealthy would accept only having 10000 times more assets than the median instead of 20000. Obviously it will never happen because people are horrible and no amount of suffering or death of other people isn't worth the tiniest advantage for themselves.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

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#220 Jul 15 2014 at 4:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ahh now there's the question, how can we make money meaningless enough that they'd part with it without a second thought? Maybe this whole removing the fence idea is kinda starting to sound more liberal than conservative. Smiley: rolleyes

That's it, gbaji is a closet communist! Where's McCarthy when you need him? Smiley: tinfoilhat

Edit: Speaking of "where's", where's your generic MMO when you need it? You log in, you get your starter gear, the keys to your own house and access to the chat channels, entry areas, and basic events and such. If only life was like that...

Edited, Jul 15th 2014 5:13pm by someproteinguy
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#221 Jul 15 2014 at 4:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:

What we really need is someway to get free food, water, shelter, health care, security, transportation and entertainment (am I missing anything?) to everyone.

Could do this tomorrow if the ultra wealthy would accept only having 10000 times more assets than the median instead of 20000. Obviously it will never happen because people are horrible and no amount of suffering or death of other people isn't worth the tiniest advantage for themselves.

B-b-but Warren Buffet and Bill Gates and the **** Brothers and Steve Jobs are giving away half their billions! To private charities! Surely this will solve all our ills??
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we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
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#222 Jul 15 2014 at 6:18 PM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
Gbaji wrote:

Of course. The party that is *not* passing legislation that directly targets minority groups for benefits will always appear this way. But that's because the GOP is *not* being racist, not because we are. The problem is that we're being judged by a standard that is itself inherently racist.
Two points:
1. You would have a valid point IF there weren't prior mistreatment. You can't enslave a race, prevent them from learning English, strip their heritage/names, prevent them from going to school, prevent them from living in certain housing, prevent them from voting, etc., then say, "oh, well to make laws to address those wrong doings would be 'inherently racist'.
In gbajiland, if those Africans had just pulled themselves up by their bootstraps (sandalstraps?) they wouldn't have been slaves in the first place.

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Really? I heard he found them quite trying.
Kao will shortly be sending you a sternly worded PM for getting all up in his schtick.

Samira wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
The point would be to lower the effort to succeed to the point where any yahoo with a couple of brain cells could make a decent living, and the incentives for making more than is necessary are minimal. Basically success would be such a guarantee that it wouldn't matter what shortcomings you had, and those that were better off wouldn't really get a better view of the game.
So, bring back manufacturing jobs. Great! Get on that.
I mentioned that a while ago and gbaji wept for the shareholders. It was very moving.
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#223 Jul 16 2014 at 7:22 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Or, and maybe this highlights yet another difference between liberal and conservative thought: Lower/eliminate the fence.
That sounded a lot better in your head than it did written down, didn't it?
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#224 Jul 16 2014 at 8:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
Helpful image for gbaji:


That's cute, as long as one doesn't realize that the picture labeled as "justice" isn't justice. Justice offsets injustice. Meaning that it only exists within the context of unjust actions. If I take something from you, justice would require (at a minimum) that it be taken from me and returned to you. Justice does not act to offset natural conditions. The tall person did not take height from the short person. Thus, no system of justice would require that his box be taken from him and given to the short person in order to balance out their respective heights.

This, in a nutshell, is where most people go wrong with the concept of rights, liberty, justice, etc. They fail to understand the difference between naturally occurring conditions and those imposed on one by someone else. Government can and should act to adjust for the latter, but while it *may* act to adjust for the former, it is not required, and it's absolutely not "unfair" or "unjust" for it not to.


The image is helpful at illustrating how people apply incorrect labels to things though. So thanks, I guess.


Well, if it wasn't so taboo, almost all of us could be tall, and allocate boxes for the few who weren't. Unfortunately, we live in a society where the only solutions are moving around of the boxes or leaving them where random chance allows them to end up.


Or, and maybe this highlights yet another difference between liberal and conservative thought: Lower/eliminate the fence. Then, it doesn't matter who is taller or who has a box. Shocking solution. I know.


If the conservative movement did that they would be in competition for my vote. They don't, though. In fact they often erect fences to ensure a competitive advantage or an opportunity for box sales for some.
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#225 Jul 16 2014 at 11:23 AM Rating: Good
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The poors would get the left-over cardboard boxes that wouldn't hold up their weight.

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Justice does not act to offset natural conditions.
You made that up.
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#226 Jul 16 2014 at 5:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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****, I can't be bothered to engage, so I'll instead post this clip that reflects where I am and why I don't care.

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