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It's Friday and All ThatFollow

#202 Jun 17 2014 at 6:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
And let's be honest, neither are you.

Yeah, I'm okay with that. If I gave a shit, I'd go buy the cards I needed for the decks. I mean, I own a credit card and have a job, I just don't see the value in dropping money on $20 cards to win $12 worth of booster packs. Likewise, I'm okay with using the ones I do have to try and make the best of them rather than buying someone else's deck so I can compete on their ideas. On the other hand, when I feel I've done competitively with my less-than-top-grade deck building, I think it's an evening well spent. When I rank high in a draft, I know why I did it. Certainly better than an evening spent using someone else's deck or winning video games by following YouTube walkthroughs or playing games of TF2 loaded with crutch weapons but I get that we have different goals for the night.

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What I'm mostly trying to get across is that netdecking isn't copying a list and grabbing your creditcard, you still have to put in the effort to understand every card in the deck....

Heh, ok. Look, it's cool. Somehow you think that copying someone else's work and making a few tweaks is equivalent to doing it yourself or that no one except the guy who copies decks goes through all the usual decision making processes in the game. It's silly but it's not a big deal to me.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#203 Jun 17 2014 at 6:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Haven't played MTG in a long time. I can't tell if that's for the best or not yet.

They've done a good job with developing the game. Drafts/sealed play particularly have gone from "let's just spin a big wheel" to a really viable test of skill. I like to play draft then complain about people who looked up combos and play styles on the internet. Back in 94, I drafted this card "Channel" and thought "hey, maybe this could be used to augment damage spells" That's the way it should be.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#204 Jun 17 2014 at 6:58 AM Rating: Good
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Heh, ok. Look, it's cool. Somehow you think that copying someone else's work and making a few tweaks is equivalent to doing it yourself or that no one except the guy who copies decks goes through all the usual decision making processes in the game. It's silly but it's not a big deal to me.


Sort of. It's probably sillier that you're playing Standard and emphasizing deck building. The reality is no one cares much about the deckbuilding formats, and play in constructed is pretty much universally accepted as the measure of skill at MtG. As the cards become known there's an exchange of information, it's fairly efficient, as they see play, decks get refined. Making the correct tactical play is something entirely different. Less complete information, it requires more skill. It's a different skill, definitely, but it's also quantitatively *harder*. People who win big tournaments don't just have more money for cards.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#205 Jun 17 2014 at 7:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:
Sort of. It's probably sillier that you're playing Standard and emphasizing deck building.

Yeah, but I'm holding my own and having fun so I'm cool with it. Plus, you know, it's the most common and basic level of tournament play so it's the easiest to find and get into (cheapest too, I guess on an entry fee basis). There's not much point in debating what theoretical "best players" have what skills, it's not as though they comes with GI Joe trading cards loaded with stats ("Smith has a 6 in deck building but a 9 in play!"). As I've repeatedly noted, I'm just speaking from what I've seen.

Aethien just seems really worried that others are judging him for playing someone else's deck. I don't really get why -- I don't care when the 1st place netdeck player thinks my deck was too crappy to win. Plus, you know, it's a fantasy card game. There's better things to take super seriously.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#206 Jun 17 2014 at 7:21 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
They've done a good job with developing the game.
They'd better after twenty years.
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#207 Jun 17 2014 at 7:23 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
On the other hand, when I feel I've done competitively with my less-than-top-grade deck building, I think it's an evening well spent. When I rank high in a draft, I know why I did it. Certainly better than an evening spent using someone else's deck or winning video games by following YouTube walkthroughs or playing games of TF2 loaded with crutch weapons but I get that we have different goals for the night.

Netdecking is nothing like playing a game with a youtube walkthrough, it's more like looking up the talent spec and gear choices others have made in an MMO (except with a million more options), you still have to play the game yourself.

And you could still improve your deck by looking up other white weenie decklists and seeing which choices others have made and maybe changing some cards based on what you have and/or want to spend. Doesn't make it any less "your" deck, for as far as anyone can claim a deck idea to be theirs.

Edited, Jun 17th 2014 3:24pm by Aethien
#208 Jun 17 2014 at 7:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:
They've done a good job with developing the game.
They'd better after twenty years.

I'd say it's better now than it was back in it's original heyday. Certainly better than it was around Ice Age (bleah). Can't speak for the intervening years since I know of them only through cheap bulk card lots for Commander decks.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#209 Jun 17 2014 at 7:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Netdecking is nothing like playing a game with a youtube walkthrough

*Shrug* Sure. Stop worrying about it.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#210 Jun 17 2014 at 7:34 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
Heh, ok. Look, it's cool. Somehow you think that copying someone else's work and making a few tweaks is equivalent to doing it yourself or that no one except the guy who copies decks goes through all the usual decision making processes in the game. It's silly but it's not a big deal to me.

Sort of. It's probably sillier that you're playing Standard and emphasizing deck building. The reality is no one cares much about the deckbuilding formats, and play in constructed is pretty much universally accepted as the measure of skill at MtG. As the cards become known there's an exchange of information, it's fairly efficient, as they see play, decks get refined. Making the correct tactical play is something entirely different. Less complete information, it requires more skill. It's a different skill, definitely, but it's also quantitatively *harder*. People who win big tournaments don't just have more money for cards.
The best deckbuilding format is pretty much block constructed anyway, especially at the tournaments right after a new set is released as everyone is starting from scratch at that point and deckbuilders get a serious advantage. It's the best chance for the good deckbuilders to find a way to break the format and find the best deck (and hope others haven't found the same).

Limited is an entirely different skillset, more about judging cards and people than being a good deckbuilder.
#211 Jun 17 2014 at 7:36 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Certainly better than it was around Ice Age (bleah).
All I remember from Ice Age was that was about when they started adding new rules and that boobs started becoming more important to me.
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#212 Jun 17 2014 at 7:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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I had a girlfriend who would bring me pizza when I was playing M:tG then hang around for us to go home together. It's nice when you can blend your interests.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#213 Jun 17 2014 at 7:44 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Certainly better than it was around Ice Age (bleah).
All I remember from Ice Age was that was about when they started adding new rules and that boobs started becoming more important to me.
Ice Age era was a disaster of bad formatting and 3 paragraphs per textbox. It's gotten a lot better since then.
#214 Jun 17 2014 at 10:48 AM Rating: Decent
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The best deckbuilding format is pretty much block constructed anyway, especially at the tournaments right after a new set is released as everyone is starting from scratch at that point and deckbuilders get a serious advantage. It's the best chance for the good deckbuilders to find a way to break the format and find the best deck (and hope others haven't found the same).

That's true. Still lightly played compared to Standard or Modern.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#215 Jun 17 2014 at 10:57 AM Rating: Good
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And a small enough card pool, especially at the start of a block, that there's a chance to break the format if you find the right combination of cards.
#216 Jun 17 2014 at 11:00 AM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Ice Age era was a disaster of bad formatting and 3 paragraphs per textbox.
Was that when they were over-explaining the mechanics of the game or they were adding way too much flavor text? I remember at one point they were spending two or three sentences to explain how Flying worked, just not particularly sure if that was when.
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George Carlin wrote:
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#217 Jun 17 2014 at 11:17 AM Rating: Good
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I could go for a draft. I'd have to read up a bit on the current environment, unless someone has the cliff notes.
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#218 Jun 17 2014 at 11:25 AM Rating: Good
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Sigiled Starfish is awesome, as is Fleetfeather Cockatrice.

lolgaxe wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Ice Age era was a disaster of bad formatting and 3 paragraphs per textbox.
Was that when they were over-explaining the mechanics of the game or they were adding way too much flavor text? I remember at one point they were spending two or three sentences to explain how Flying worked, just not particularly sure if that was when.
Just overly complicated cards, I think half the ice age cards has a full paragraph of text explaining what they do.
#219 Jun 27 2014 at 9:49 PM Rating: Good
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Went 3-0 in a draft. ran 16 land, but that's for 40 cards. W/R, opened and was passed a bomb of matching color.
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#220 Jun 27 2014 at 10:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Timelordwho wrote:
Went 3-0 in a draft. ran 16 land, but that's for 40 cards. W/R, opened and was passed a bomb of matching color.

Congratulations!

The wife is away so I stayed home tonight. Played a hilariously terrible W/U deck against my kid. Bunch of low cost unblockables with low cost defenders and some extra dudes with extort. In the fever dream that made me think this was a good idea, I imagined the unblockables hitting with ciphered cards with extra extort damage off the cipher castings. It has huge weaknesses, too many parts and a big mana imbalance (blue heavy but needs extra plains for extort costs). But the 5% of the time it all comes together, it's a thing of beauty Smiley: laugh


Edited, Jun 27th 2014 11:06pm by Jophiel
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Belkira wrote:
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#221 Jun 27 2014 at 10:24 PM Rating: Good
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That deck has a bizarre amount of walls. Try a vortex elemental.

This is what I drafted.

Edited, Jun 28th 2014 12:38am by Timelordwho
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#222 Jun 27 2014 at 10:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Timelordwho wrote:
That deck has a bizarre amount of walls. Try a vortex elemental.

Don't own one. And I'm certainly not about to try and get one for a deck I built for the lulz. See, I need the walls to stay safe while my unblockables do their measly damage! I made it mainly as joke with my son that I was going to make a W/U deck that wasn't the usual Permission/Denial or whatever.

Nice draft deck and nice snag on the Eidolon of the Great Revel. Smiley: thumbsup
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#223 Jun 28 2014 at 3:55 AM Rating: Good
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The way to go about killing with unblockables is to get one with infect, then Invigorate + Berserk your measly 1/1 unblockable into a 10/1 that kills in a single hit.
#224 Jun 30 2014 at 7:44 AM Rating: Good
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Needs more goblins.
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#225 Jun 30 2014 at 9:18 AM Rating: Good
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I wish goblins were viable in any format right now. Smiley: frown
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