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Race cars are generally stock, anyway.
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
Smasharoo wrote:
Eh, it's just different skill sets. [...] Decks are just the vehicles for the rider, it doesn't make the rider less skilled if he doesn't build the vehicle.
Well, less overall skilled since he lacks a skill set. And less impressive to me than someone with more overall skill especially since I view the game with a wider lens.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Sure. I'll still be more impressed by a guy who made/tuned his own RC car from a basic kit that does a pretty kick-*** job than someone who opened a box right before the race and pulled a $1,500 car out of it
Why? So strange and arbitrary. "I'd be a lot more impressed if Micheal Jordan went out and slaughtered a cow and then carefully tanned it's hide until he was able to make a perfectly spherical ball and then inflate a sheep's bladder within with air to produce a basketball."
There are deck-building formats to compete at deck-building. You aren't playing one of those.
Why? So strange and arbitrary. "I'd be a lot more impressed if Micheal Jordan went out and slaughtered a cow and then carefully tanned it's hide until he was able to make a perfectly spherical ball and then inflate a sheep's bladder within with air to produce a basketball."
There are deck-building formats to compete at deck-building. You aren't playing one of those.
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
Well, less overall skilled since he lacks a skill set.
Or doesn't, but didn't build his deck. I'm not sure one implies the other. I could fashion a hammer from wood and iron stock. I've done this. It was interesting. It's definitely a skill. The fact that I drive nails with a framing hammer I bought from a store doesn't mean I can't create a hammer, it just means I don't always want to be bothered fabricating a tool I can obtain with far less effort that will be the same or better quality.
Edited, Jun 16th 2014 2:03pm by Smasharoo
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
Jophiel wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Compare it to racing if you will, I like to race but I don't care much for tuning the engine of the car I'm driving.
Sure. I'll still be more impressed by a guy who made/tuned his own RC car from a basic kit that does a pretty kick-*** job than someone who opened a box right before the race and pulled a $1,500 car out of it. But if you win with the $1,500 car what do you care what I think?
Basketball never came with instructions saying to kill a pig. M:tG never told you to cut down trees and harvest wood pulp for cards stock. It did, however, say to make a deck out of the cards. I respect personal ability in that but not everyone does.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
I think every single magic player has immense respect for the people who are skilled at building decks.
What it comes down to, sort of, is that for you Magic is racing soap box karts down a hill and seeing how well your own hand made kart does and for me Magic is a Formula 1 race where it's using the best of the best tools to see who is the better driver/player. And showing up with a hand made car to a Formula 1 race is a disaster as much as showing up with a perfected machine tested for countless hours in a windtunnel by hundreds of people to a soapbox race.
What it comes down to, sort of, is that for you Magic is racing soap box karts down a hill and seeing how well your own hand made kart does and for me Magic is a Formula 1 race where it's using the best of the best tools to see who is the better driver/player. And showing up with a hand made car to a Formula 1 race is a disaster as much as showing up with a perfected machine tested for countless hours in a windtunnel by hundreds of people to a soapbox race.
Well, not really because someone is originating those decks that you're copying. I don't think of those people as handcrafting Formula One race cars, I just think of them as people who have mastered the entire game and not just the "Google & a Credit Card" part.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
It's really bizarre to see someone insisting that magic isn't about building the deck.
I mean I get that there will be optimal decks, and given the internet it's easy to find out what they are, so you're forced into using them if you want to compete, but honestly that's just the internet and easy communication breaking what should be and was an integral part of the game from what I've seen.
I mean I get that there will be optimal decks, and given the internet it's easy to find out what they are, so you're forced into using them if you want to compete, but honestly that's just the internet and easy communication breaking what should be and was an integral part of the game from what I've seen.
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Smasharoo wrote:
Well, less overall skilled since he lacks a skill set.
Or doesn't, but didn't build his deck. I'm not sure one implies the other.
Or doesn't, but didn't build his deck. I'm not sure one implies the other.
No, since someone is creating those decks for the first time. So obviously some sharp cats out there are doing so and I assume they're doing well with them (since people are copying them as winning deck designs). But Aethien admitted that deck construction isn't his strength and -- again, local/limited experience -- but the top players I see in the standard games tend to perform at a rather mediocre level in drafts.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
No, since someone is creating those decks for the first time. So obviously some sharp cats out there are doing so and I assume they're doing well with them
They really probably aren't is the thing. The best deck builders generally aren't the best tacticians anymore.
They really probably aren't is the thing. The best deck builders generally aren't the best tacticians anymore.
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
The creation of those top decks aren't the works of single people, they're the result of people having ideas because of other people having ideas because of cards they saw and streamlining the resulting deck over thousands of hours of playtesting and tinkering with the deck.
There is no single person the Black Devotion deck can be led back to, they are thousands of people seeing the cards and making the connections and all adding their knowledge of the game to the idea of the deck. Some cards in the deck can probably be traced back to the players who first added them but the idea of the deck doesn't have a single origin.
Hell, Pack Rat is a staple in the deck but it wasn't for months and months because people didn't realize the true potential of the card in the MBD shell.
There is no single person the Black Devotion deck can be led back to, they are thousands of people seeing the cards and making the connections and all adding their knowledge of the game to the idea of the deck. Some cards in the deck can probably be traced back to the players who first added them but the idea of the deck doesn't have a single origin.
Hell, Pack Rat is a staple in the deck but it wasn't for months and months because people didn't realize the true potential of the card in the MBD shell.
Smasharoo wrote:
They really probably aren't is the thing. The best deck builders generally aren't the best tacticians anymore.
Without arguing that point, I'll just note again that the person who leapt to the defense of netdecking had admitted to being weak in construction (especially in a random setting as opposed to 'pick 4 of any card') and my observation of other people leads me to conclude that generally they're not skilled builders who just didn't want to spend the time. Maybe my limited observation has failed me there but it won't keep me up at night.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
The creation of those top decks aren't the works of single people, they're the result of people having ideas because of other people having ideas because of cards they saw and streamlining the resulting deck over thousands of hours of playtesting and tinkering with the deck.
Right. Then someone Googles it, buys the cards and takes credit for having changed two cards for the "metagame" so it's essentially identical to building your own
Edited, Jun 16th 2014 2:09pm by Jophiel
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Maybe my limited observation has failed me there but it won't keep me up at night.
Few things seem to :) I admire that certainty.
Few things seem to :) I admire that certainty.
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
Smasharoo wrote:
Few things seem to :) I admire that certainty.
It's the sleep of the just
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Jophiel wrote:
Man, I really hope everyone else is skipping this thread 
Nerds
People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome. ~River Tam
Sedao
Sedao
Kastigir wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Man, I really hope everyone else is skipping this thread
Nerds
I check in on this thread to see if it's veered back towards relevancy, and consider with horror the idea that my son(s) might be interested soon enough and I'd get dragged back in.
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
Jophiel wrote:
I'll just note again that the person who leapt to the defense of netdecking had admitted to being weak in construction (especially in a random setting as opposed to 'pick 4 of any card') and my observation of other people leads me to conclude that generally they're not skilled builders
What I'm mostly trying to get across is that netdecking isn't copying a list and grabbing your creditcard, you still have to put in the effort to understand every card in the deck and why it's a 1 off or a 4 off, why sideboard cards are in the sideboard and when to bring them in, whether cards work in your metagame or not etc.
If you don't build your own decks you're never going to be good at playing Magic because building decks gives you a better understanding of the game but if you never netdeck you've got the same problem.
Jophiel wrote:
Are we relying on the shooter to be blind?
Anyway, I'm taking the elder child to Friday Night Magic for some high stakes fantasy card game playing. I'm bringin' the White Weenie deck back with a force
Last time I ranked comfortably in the middle but one game I lost due to my own misunderstanding of a rule (user error, not deck error) and made some switches and tweaks so I have hopes to do fairly well. I'm not looking to beat the guys who just look up a deck list online and buy all the cards, I just like punching well within my weight class.
Not so sure about the rest of the weekend. No special Father's Day plans but we always go out for breakfast on Sunday morning so I expect we'll do that and then Flea will take over toddler-wrangling so I can spend the day how I please.
Anyway, I'm taking the elder child to Friday Night Magic for some high stakes fantasy card game playing. I'm bringin' the White Weenie deck back with a force
Last time I ranked comfortably in the middle but one game I lost due to my own misunderstanding of a rule (user error, not deck error) and made some switches and tweaks so I have hopes to do fairly well. I'm not looking to beat the guys who just look up a deck list online and buy all the cards, I just like punching well within my weight class. Not so sure about the rest of the weekend. No special Father's Day plans but we always go out for breakfast on Sunday morning so I expect we'll do that and then Flea will take over toddler-wrangling so I can spend the day how I please.
Haven't played MTG in a long time. I can't tell if that's for the best or not yet.
Just as Planned.
Smasharoo wrote:
Anyway, I'm taking the elder child to Friday Night Magic for some high stakes fantasy card game playing
Realizing this is something inherently dependent on the actual location and likely varies wildly, do you think I could bring 9 year old Hannah to FNM? She absolutely can play well enough, but I don't want to bring her to room full of 15 year old boys and bitter neckbeards.
Well, I'd expect that to be at least half the population regardless of location, but if she does well enough you can start training her for the Prix.
Just as Planned.
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Edited, Jun 17th 2014 7:55am by Timelordwho
Edited, Jun 17th 2014 7:55am by Timelordwho
Just as Planned.
TirithRR wrote:
Sliver decks, they were fun, but a deck with all five colors was just too much. (Splinters, right?Slivers, that's right... Those little creatures that gained abilities from each other, and their gold Splinter Queen)
I built one with Alluren...
That was exciting. This is like a really bad AA meeting.
@#%^ you guys for dragging me back in.
Edited, Jun 17th 2014 8:04am by Timelordwho
Just as Planned.
Timelordwho wrote:
This is like a really bad AA meeting.
From experience, I've realized that I cannot go back and make a brand-new start. But through MtG., I can start from now and make a brand-new end
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
If you liked Aluren you'd probably enjoy the Melira Pod deck that's a big player in Modern at the moment.
Not as fast a combo but it has a pretty similar feel, except that instead of going Aluren + Imperial Recruiter fetching Cavern Harpy > return recruiter for 1 life to fetch parasitic strix and win by recasting strix infinite times you use Birthing Pod to cycle into stronger and stronger creatures, there are some with Kiki-Jiki fueled infinite combos as well if that's your thing.
Or just straight up Splinter Twin to make infinite 1/4's or 2/1 fliers with haste.
Not as fast a combo but it has a pretty similar feel, except that instead of going Aluren + Imperial Recruiter fetching Cavern Harpy > return recruiter for 1 life to fetch parasitic strix and win by recasting strix infinite times you use Birthing Pod to cycle into stronger and stronger creatures, there are some with Kiki-Jiki fueled infinite combos as well if that's your thing.
Or just straight up Splinter Twin to make infinite 1/4's or 2/1 fliers with haste.
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