It's Friday and All ThatFollow

Dredging this back up because why the hell not (and we won't have a hundred stupid Varus posts to reply to) but I was building a deck last night and thought about this again.

The distinction between using a broad concept and someone else's deck list is that there's 35 white critters in Standard with a CMC of 2 or less. I used 25% of them in my deck. I had to actually look at them and figure which were viable and which weren't, which would have abilities that would support the concept and which didn't, etc. Some WW decks rely heavily on Heroic triggers but I'm thinking about rotating my Phalanx Leaders out because I only have four spells to trigger them and otherwise they're just 1/1 chumps for (WW). I think I might be better off with Sightless Brawler or some other heavier hitter. I rotated out Deicide for Keening Apparition because I made the calculation that a 2/2 who can sacrifice to destroy an enchantment is better than a spell that exiles it (and has a very specific side benefit). There's only so many cards and concepts in the game (especially for Standard) so you'll likely never be first to make a "Regen" deck or "Direct Damage" deck or "Dredge" deck or "Mana Ramp" deck or "Permission" deck or have some unique deck or idea. But if it was as easy as "Oh, just small white creatures" then I'd do just as well with a deck full of Yoked Ox and Caracals.

There's a fairly wide array of low-cost white decks (or any other broad concept deck) but every Desecration Demon/Pack Rat deck I've ever seen is pretty much identical to every other Desecration Demon/Pack Rat deck. The idea that tweaking two cards for the "metagame" is comparable to fitting sixty cards into a viable concept strikes me as fairly ridiculous. Why not just admit that deck building isn't your thing and you'd rather just play with someone else's deck rather than try to equivocate the two? Hell, even WotC sells prebuilt decks for just those sorts of people (though at a lower level of sheer competitiveness).

Edited, Jun 16th 2014 9:17am by Jophiel

Sure, but of those 35 there's probably less than 15 that aren't automatically eliminated because they are not efficiently costed (Capashan Knight, God-Favored General), too defensive for your gameplan (Nyx-Fleece Ram, Yoked Ox, Concordia Pegasus), not doing something that does anything for your deck (Dutiful Thrull, Soulmender) or strictly worse than creatures with the exact same mana cost and stats (Boros Mastiff, Stonewise Fortifier, Traveling Philosopher).

Knowledge of the metagame and card pool in standard then make card choices much simpler for example Loyal Pegasus is terrible in a format where good removal is abundant because it allows your opponents to render the pegasus irrelevant without having to spend mana or a spell to do so. Good removal also means you need a certain number of defensive cards to "counter" removal.
On top of that there's an element of affordability that further limits you (no Brimaz, no Mutavault) so your choice in cards is pretty limited and what you're left with is fine tuning between a certain number of flex spots that you fill depending on your local metagame.


It is literally no different from the black devotion decks you seem to dislike so much as there's the fine tuning for which removal to have in main and side board, using lifebane zombie or nightveil specter, playing whip of erebos or not, staying mono black or splashing white, green or black and if you splash for how much (just Obzedat/Blood Baron or also banishing lights and Elspeth? Just Dreadbore or also Mizzium Mortars, Anger of the gods and Rakdos' Return?) etc.

The idea that you're choosing 60 cards for your white weenie deck is flawed at best.

You want about 12-16 1 drops to guarantee being able to play one on turn 1 so you're automatically priced into playing 4x Soldier Of The Pantheon, 4x Dryad Militant and 4x Boros Elite with a choice to add Favoured Hoplite or Judge's Familiar so that's 12 cards out of ~40 already decided without choice coming into play.
At the 2 drop Daring Skyjek and Precinct Captain are the obvious best creatures with Imposing Sovereign also being great but definitely not a 4 of since you never want more than 1 in play. Aegis Of The Gods (burn) and Spirit Of The Labyrinth (Revelation decks) being obvious considerations for your sideboard. Your choice comes down to whether you think Azorius Arrester is worth it and in what amounts. Virtually every other card is automatically eliminated by being strictly worse than the ones I named or being a bad choice for the format (Sightless Brawler specifically).

There's no more than the illusion of choice involved in picking those, it's not significantly different than netdecking.

There's a difference between working out a deck yourself, and copying a deck and tweaking a couple cards, even if the cards available point you to more or less the same deck as well. Even if you're "forced" by the available cards to build a certain deck, that doesn't mean you didn't go through the options and pick it.

Nah, it pretty much does. Again, at least in my experience from watching drafts. No offense or whatever since I suspect you netdeck a good deal given your voracious defense.

Of course, I'm not saying that I personally am better than any person in the world who uses netdecks. I would rank a skilled builder from scratch above a 'skilled' player who uses other people's decks. But, as noted, WotC sells decks catering exclusively to people who can't/don't/won't build their own so it's not as though there's any real shame or problem with it either. Takes all kinds.


Sure. If Betty Crocker made the most awesome cookie mix ever and you wanted to win a baking competition you might want to use it to have the best odds. Doesn't make you a great baker though so much as great at following the directions on a box and then choosing for yourself which color sprinkles to add to make it "yours".

And then say "Well sure but EVERYONE was going to use flour and chocolate chips so...


Edited, Jun 16th 2014 11:51am by Jophiel

I tried the Fruit Punch Oreos. I didn't immediately vomit, so they're already not as bad as I thought they would be.

Well, duh. The game itself starts once you start playing, or once you start shuffling up your deck or sit down opposite your opponent, everything before that is preparation for the game(s).

I suppose if you just care about win or lose, it doesn't matter how you got your deck. That seems pretty hollow to me but I suppose that's a gulf in mindsets that won't be crossed.

I suppose to me, "playing games of Magic" is "Seeing how well your deck design competes against another person's deck design".

In your case, it's "Seeing how this deck someone gave me competes against some other deck" which isn't really interesting to me or, in my opinion, really deserving of much admiration. But since you're winning with your netdeck you don't need to worry about whether or not us pleebs in 5th admire you for it or not. Enjoy your boosters

But I do all that stuff anyway AND do it to see if my deck concept wins. It's not as though I assume the game ends when I've hit sixty cards. But you cut off half and feel it's a full experience. I don't really get that but I guess it doesn't matter so long as you're having fun.

The good news is Smash will now post a hundred paragraphs on how I'm wrong. Haha for you, sucker... I'm off for lunch and probably won't care much when I get back having reached inner M:tG Nirvana.

Edited, Jun 16th 2014 12:51pm by Jophiel

But I do all that stuff anyway AND do it to see if my deck concept wins. It's not as though I assume the game ends when I've hit sixty cards. But you cut off half and feel it's a full experience. I don't really get that but I guess it doesn't matter so long as you're having fun.

Eh, it's just different skill sets. NASCAR might be more fun if the drivers had to assemble the cars, or horse racing if jockeys had to train the horses, etc. It's not that dissimilar. Decks are just the vehicles for the rider, it doesn't make the rider less skilled if he doesn't build the vehicle.