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#127 Mar 04 2014 at 5:20 PM Rating: Default
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Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
Heck even Russia is a Democracy...



It is quotes like that make it difficult for me to take you seriously. Russia and its current form of government can be classified in a lot of ways, but no sane person would call it a democracy.

I prefer the term "zamordyzm"...
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#128 Mar 04 2014 at 6:52 PM Rating: Default
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someproteinguy wrote:
Call it crazy but from what bing tells me that's a pretty equivalent number. 6,000 protestors / 2 million Crimeans is 0.3% of the population. Most of the numbers I see for the Kiev protest put numbers in the tens of thousands, with one source saying hundreds of thousands, another says 100,000, etc. The equivalent 0.3% of Ukraine's 45.7 million people is 137,100 people. The protests were on the same relative scale.


Sure. Point being is that any protest is always going to be a smallish percentage of the total population. The question is always about the degree to which that small percentage actually represents a larger number of people within the population. I mean, the occupy folks claimed to represent 99% of the US population, and we all know that was a bit inflated, right? But at the end of the day, all protests operate on the assumption that "we represent a larger group, but we're the portion of that group willing to stand up".

The big (and IMO significant) difference is that in Kiev, the protesters were opposed by those in power, and were being shot and killed by military and police. They continued to protest in spite of this. Which is usually a hallmark of a true popular uprising (again though, I'm not saying that's a good thing, just saying what it is). In Crimea, Russian soldiers took to the streets, surrounded key government buildings and forced the parliament to appoint a PM of their choosing. 6,000 people rallying in support of Russia isn't as significant because they're on the same side as the guys with the guns. Everything else being equal, it's always easier to support the guys with the guns than to stand up against them. That's why you can't just look at the numbers by themselves.
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#129 Mar 04 2014 at 7:18 PM Rating: Default
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Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
Also communism in and of itself doesn't need to be a dictatorship, just as capitalism doesn't need be a democracy.


The second part is true, but the first part is more or less playing with definitions. Sure. Technically, a dictatorship is rule by a single dictator, so you're right. But that's also not the point at hand. The USSR was never a dictatorship by literal definition.

The broader question is the degree to which a government is "authoritarian". How much power does it wield directly over the people. And in that way, communism must always be authoritarian. The degree to which the government controls industry (command economy) must also correspond to a degree of authoritarianism. While capitalism is no guarantee of a less-authoritarian government, it at least allows for it, where communism does not.


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Obviously it is easier to corrupt a government in a Communism, and it is easier for capitalism to thrive in a democracy.


Again, I don't think it's just about corruption. Depending on how we define corrupt, both can be corrupt. Obviously, the more power there is in government, the more potential for corruption (in government), but that's more a function of people who like to abuse power going to where the most power is.


Quote:
But these are economic ideologies, not inherently Government archetypes. You can just as easily be a Communist Democracy, as you can be a Capitalist Dictatorship. Or you could be some type of Hybrid Socialist Democracy (Canada) or Socialist Dictatorship (China).


I think sometimes we can get too caught up in labels and fail to step back and look at the broader picture.
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#130 Mar 04 2014 at 10:06 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
he broader question is the degree to which a government is "authoritarian". How much power does it wield directly over the people. And in that way, communism must always be authoritarian. The degree to which the government controls industry (command economy) must also correspond to a degree of authoritarianism. While capitalism is no guarantee of a less-authoritarian government, it at least allows for it, where communism does not.


No, the syndie breeds are not really authoritarian.
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#131 Mar 05 2014 at 11:59 AM Rating: Decent
How it all got started

Part 1: http://imgur.com/gallery/0CjVCM6
Part:2: http://imgur.com/gallery/KZQhLp8
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#132 Mar 05 2014 at 12:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Likely summary of the Russian take on the situation. There's a lot of a gap there to find common ground or whatever you want to call it.
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#133 Mar 05 2014 at 12:42 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Likely summary of the Russian take on the situation. There's a lot of a gap there to find common ground or whatever you want to call it.
Boy I hope that is not indicative of the intelligence level or sentiments of the average decision-making Russian.

Maybe it lost much in translation.
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#134 Mar 05 2014 at 12:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Dunno, the BBC writer who posted the link likes the source as a good indicator as to what's going on in the minds of the Kremlin, for what it's worth. Those three demands seem to be in line with the general background rhetoric. Wouldn't be surprised if that's the gist of the pitch their foreign affairs guy is making to the US/EU at the moment.

Edited, Mar 5th 2014 10:54am by someproteinguy
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#135 Mar 05 2014 at 1:31 PM Rating: Decent
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No, the syndie breeds are not really authoritarian.

It's not worth it, trust me. He's literally incapable of understanding syndicalism in any meaningful way.
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#136 Mar 05 2014 at 1:50 PM Rating: Decent
Elinda wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Likely summary of the Russian take on the situation. There's a lot of a gap there to find common ground or whatever you want to call it.
Boy I hope that is not indicative of the intelligence level or sentiments of the average decision-making Russian.

Maybe it lost much in translation.


The demands are pretty much what Russia wants, and arguably they make a good case. Despite the ousted PM being tied to the East, he was elected, and he was removed through shady means, and all signs point that there was a coup and not a democratic change. (like the Orange Revolution). But Russia isn't going to go to war unless the the West pushes that as the only option (by attacking themselves, or supporting Ukraine in an assault in the east).

The language law was in place, and the first act of this interim government was to abolish equal language laws, for whatever reason. when half the country speaks Russian generally you would accept Russian as a national language, but Yats and Co. Changed that for whatever reason.

Ukraine totally needs to overhaul its government, it is way to corrupt, on both sides of the fence, and despite who gets in there they walk away millionaires and the people suffer. Even the little tart Yulia Tymoshenko abused powers of the office and was found guilty of abuse of power...and she was the hero of the Orange Revolution. Moscow is right in the sense Ukraine needs to adopt a stronger Constitution and hold its politicians to be more accountable for the people of the Ukraine and not East or West.

Elections sooner rather than later. This goes without saying. None of the people in power were elected to those positions and as such should no hold them with any longevity. This is probably the most agreeable to both sides, as the US has always been a strong proponent of getting people involved in the democratic process, and Moscow is certainly on point with third parties scrutinizing the result closely...lest you end up with another Egypt or Tunisa where change was desired by the people but never came.

Ultimately the writer is wildly off base on the only option being War. If the US stops talking in Ukraines ear and the EU and Russia can get the deal from 2 weeks ago back on the table (that all parties agreed to) then the problem will likely be resolved with a summer time election. There was no reason other than the US becoming involved that this deal would suddenly be bad, when everyone agreed to it before Washington got involved.

If this goes to war it is pretty much entirely on Obama, and the US state department getting involved in matters that really didn't concern them. But we all know that this was a planned event because a month ago Victoria Nuland and Geoffry Pyatt were discussing the players they wanted in place moving forward...and thats exactly who the EU and Russia, and Ukrainian people are now dealing with.

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#137 Mar 05 2014 at 2:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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There is a surprising* number of **** fakes of Yulia Tymoshenko when you image search her. And many of them are pretty funny since she always has some fairly stoic expression as she's getting railed in the **** or showing you her fake boobs.


*Well, I guess I shouldn't be 'surprised'...
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#138 Mar 05 2014 at 2:15 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
There is a surprising* number of **** fakes of Yulia Tymoshenko when you image search her. And many of them are pretty funny since she always has some fairly stoic expression as she's getting railed in the **** or showing you her fake boobs.


*Well, I guess I shouldn't be 'surprised'...


I must have some filters on that I am unaware of, because I didn't see anything more risque than her showing some bruises on her abdomen.
#139 Mar 05 2014 at 2:16 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
There is a surprising* number of **** fakes of Yulia Tymoshenko when you image search her. And many of them are pretty funny since she always has some fairly stoic expression as she's getting railed in the **** or showing you her fake boobs.


*Well, I guess I shouldn't be 'surprised'...


I just Googled her and found out that she's 53, she ******* looks like she's in her 20's. How much of the national budget went to her face? Smiley: yikes
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#140 Mar 05 2014 at 2:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
I must have some filters on that I am unaware of, because I didn't see anything more risque than her showing some bruises on her abdomen.

Unfiltered Bing Images, it starts about 15ish lines down (depending on monitor resolution, I guess) and continues from there.

Although it amuses me deeply to know that I got you to look for Yulia Tymoshenko **** Smiley: laugh
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#141 Mar 05 2014 at 2:23 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
I must have some filters on that I am unaware of, because I didn't see anything more risque than her showing some bruises on her abdomen.

Unfiltered Bing Images, it starts about 15ish lines down (depending on monitor resolution, I guess) and continues from there.

Although it amuses me deeply to know that I got you to look for Yulia Tymoshenko **** Smiley: laugh


Yuk it up, chuckles.

And I don't use Bing, so that explains that.
#142 Mar 05 2014 at 2:23 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
*Well, I guess I shouldn't be 'surprised'...
Welcome to Rule 34.
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#143 Mar 05 2014 at 2:25 PM Rating: Decent
I don't even need to see the fake **** to know id probably not think twice about entering into a ukranian camel with her, or the less freaky Ukranian jackhammer.

Edited, Mar 5th 2014 3:26pm by rdmcandie
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#144 Mar 05 2014 at 2:29 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, I'm sure the only reason she exists is to slake your manly sexual desires....
#145 Mar 05 2014 at 2:34 PM Rating: Decent
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Yeah, I'm sure the only reason she exists is to slake your manly sexual desires....

Ive always wanted to bang a convict. (also incase you couldnt tell, I was being facetious)


Edited, Mar 5th 2014 3:36pm by rdmcandie
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#146 Mar 05 2014 at 2:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
And I don't use Bing, so that explains that.

I use them for image searches because Google Images does too much quiet censorship and second-guessing you in the background.
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#147 Mar 05 2014 at 2:35 PM Rating: Decent
Jophiel wrote:
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
And I don't use Bing, so that explains that.

I use them for image searches because Google Images does too much quiet censorship and second-guessing you in the background.

Just like =4 grrrr Google.
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#148 Mar 05 2014 at 3:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quickly making my list of favorite quotes from this forum:

idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I searched "worst search engine to find ****" into both Google and Bing. Google's results were all about managing the hunt for child pornography and how the US rejects the idea of automatic **** filtering.

Bing's results were a whole bunch of **** sites
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#149 Mar 05 2014 at 3:19 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
And I don't use Bing, so that explains that.

I use them for image searches because Google Images does too much quiet censorship and second-guessing you in the background.


They cut out fake-**** of Ukranian leaders, for example.
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#150 Mar 05 2014 at 3:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Precisely. Who is Google to guess what my motivations are for searching for images of international political figures?
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#151 Mar 05 2014 at 3:40 PM Rating: Default
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Timelordwho wrote:
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he broader question is the degree to which a government is "authoritarian". How much power does it wield directly over the people. And in that way, communism must always be authoritarian. The degree to which the government controls industry (command economy) must also correspond to a degree of authoritarianism. While capitalism is no guarantee of a less-authoritarian government, it at least allows for it, where communism does not.


No, the syndie breeds are not really authoritarian.


Sigh. Smash's comment aside, Syndicalism is no less authoritarian, it's just tailored to make it look less so to the uninformed masses. Actually, let me be more clear: In theory it would be less so, just like in theory Communisim would have no government control over industry either. The problem is that, just as with communism, no attempt to actually implement syndicalism has ever existed that didn't involve the government more or less directly controlling and enforcing the syndicates.

It's just like claiming that public sector unions are really about the will of the workers. Yeah. And I've got a bridge to sell ya!
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