Ukraine has issuesFollow

What does this have to do with insisting that armed Russian guards are not going to intimidate native Ukrains whose desires might be to get to the polls and vote for the anti-Russian position?

On the other hand, you've basically admitted that the 'vote' is just a little democratic decoration and the referendums outcome already determined.




Edited, Mar 12th 2014 3:52pm by Elinda

Um ya they do. If/When Ukraine joins NATO Crimea just has another referendum. Do you think that the Eastern States of Ukraine want to be in NATO? sh*t they don't even want to be involved with the EU. I think you seriously underestimate the division in Ukraine. Which is preyed upon by both sides. Its why the EU told Ukraine pick the Trade Deal OR Energy Deal, its why the US said in November Pick one or the other. Its why Russia calls the West anti Russian (granted Yats helped his case huge with the change to Russian language laws).

If Ukraine Joins NATO it won't just be Crimea jumping ship.



Yes and no, the US and EU were never going to actually do anything. Hell even the sanctions are softball. Even if Russia rolled right into Kiev you would be hard pressed any foreign entity willing to go to War with Russia (and likely China). You could put sanctions on them, and they would just cut of energy supply to Europe. German Economy would fall to pieces, and with it the EU would crumble beside it.

Ultimately if it is a big charade, then the West was stupid for even dancing to Putins tune. Its a lose lose, because ultimately nothing changes. Russia will still have more influence in the East than anyone else. Such is life.

Edited, Mar 12th 2014 9:55am by rdmcandie

If Ukraine wants to join Russian, I'm fine with that, but stop already with the holier than though Russian defense for democracy. Haven't you already been whipped for that here?

Elections are part of a democratic process. Invading a territory and putting your armed guards at their polls is not part of the democratic process.

Your over-defense of Russia is skewing your arguments.

What do Iran and Afghanistan have to do with anything? For that matter what does the US have to do with this discussion?

My only claim was that the vote in Crimea would be influenced by the presence of a Russian military force. You claim it won't be. I think you're wrong.

They were lost.

China would not join with Russia in a war for Ukraine. Are you retarded?

The German economy is not entirely contingent upon oil from Russia. Are you retarded?

I didn't say China would go to war over Ukraine. I said they would go to war likely on the opposite side as us. Japan didn't go to war in Europe did it?

No but 50% of its Energy is dependant upon Russia, and you need Energy to run an economy so...

I don't think that is a war anyone would walk away from in any position to do any annexing.

That's exactly what they have done; they are currently occupying it with their armed forces. The referendum is a way of legitimising the annexation of the territory, one that has little cost and much to recommend it.

We're not allowed unless big brother and Pops say it is all right first.

Edited, Mar 12th 2014 5:28pm by rdmcandie

We owe them money, and we're not paying them back fast enough. So they send some goons to rough us up a bit and speed things along.

It would also severely jack up both our economies. It would likely lead to the death of the current CCP faction, and something new taking their place. Maybe in 20-30 years it would be an option.