Ukraine has issuesFollow

Russia can't make a move with Palin defending our border.

i do not know if there is a person in the US who would not watch that show.

...said the guy who just said "Democracy counts everywhere or it counts nowhere oe else you're a big meanie-head hypocrite!!" Smiley: laugh

I think what his poorly phrased argument was attempting to reference was the right of self determination, which is generally a fairly universally acknowledged right among first world nations. Scotland my break away from the UK via a democratic process, Quebec might have broken away from Canada, etc. If Crimea's citizens decide they want to be part of Russia and express that through democratic processes, are you arguing they should be made to remain part of Ukraine through threat of military force?

This is what I was referencing.

Calm down there Gbaji junior. Its ok when something shoots over your head. I hope you understand how incredibly weak hypocrisy makes a country look. Especially one that attempts to be the beacon of freedom and democracy across the globe.

I didn't say anything about sanctions. I said denouncing the referendum the people of Crimea are holding on March 16th is hypocritical. But reach for whatever you need to Joph.



English mother@#%^er, do you speak it?





Edited, Mar 8th 2014 2:55pm by rdmcandie

My outlook on this is that the people of Ukraine are getting @#%^ed around AGAIN by this East West divide. I hold, I suppose a Bias against American intervention because Russia, EU, Pro West, and Pro East Ukraine sat down in mid Februray and reached a deal that all parties agreed was the best way to put this whole scenario in the rear view mirror. Then the US State Department got their friend Yats in power ("Friend" is Re: Victoria Nulands phone call with Geoffry Pyatt) have been in his ear since before he assumed office and since then the deal that Pro West elements agreed to not only a week prior is suddenly off the table and not an acceptable outcome anymore.

Edit: I suppose one of the big indicators of a "flip flop" and Americans driving this "crisis" is in December Obama said he would consider sanctions on the Ukraine Government. In Early February Kerry echoed this. Then Yats took power and suddenly in place of Sanctions Ukraine is getting Billion dollar aid packages.


I don't really have anything against the EU other then them slipping in an Ultimatum which they did for no reason really that I can tell and I think triggered the whole thing, When they said take the EU Trade Deal, or the Russian Bailout out package You can't have both its pretty easy to see which one Ukraine would have to take.. EU deals a lot with Russia, I don't see why it would be a bad thing for Ukraine to get an Energy deal from Russia and a trade deal with the EU, but someone at some point decided this would be bad for whatever reason that hasn't been made public.

As for Russia, they have done nothing wrong "law wise" morally sure they probably shouldn't be scuttling ships, blocking ports camping in Ukrainian soldiers or holding wargames on the boarder I think those send the wrong message. However Crimea doesn't acknowledge Kiev as its government anymore so really they are doing what they perceive as necessary to keep the peace they were asked to keep by the people of Crimea. Western Media and US State Dept is trying their hardest to spin the Big bad Russian narrative but they are allowed 25000 troops in Crimea under terms of the treaty, they are allowed to answer a distress call from a sovereign states request for help. For Contrast the people of North Mali requested France support them when Mali national Government was overthrown...no one said anything poor about that decision. Just because Ukranian Troops aren't marching on Crimea doesn't mean that the people of Crimea have perceived a threat to the point they felt they needed the assistance of another nation to provide security and that is perfectly within their right, as it is within Russias right to answer that call.

To me it seems like the US is just swinging wildly into the air and hoping they catch Putin with a right hook, heck even Europe is dragging its feet on following Washingtons lead and the whole One Voice from the west is weaker the longer this goes on. If it looks @#%^y, sounds @#%^y and reads @#%^y. Its probably @#%^y.




Edited, Mar 8th 2014 3:30pm by rdmcandie

"I disagree with what you said so Im going to call you a kid"

No wonder your children beat you in a vote on what to have for dinner. I don't like your position! LALALALALA I can't hear you.



Edited, Mar 8th 2014 3:28pm by rdmcandie

Oh look another reach. Working out this afternoon pretty hard Joph maybe you should take a breather.

You got me. Posting about a relevant international political topic in a forum section dedicated for discussion of political stuff. :rimshot:



Edited, Mar 8th 2014 3:47pm by rdmcandie

Thats nice, I am invested in the politics of my Country, I don't agree that my government should on one hand attempt to promote democracy, while on the other hand say it only counts if its the outcome we support. Personally I don't care where Crimea ends up, I don't care if Ukraine gets split in half. I do care that my government has already made it clear that "we" will not respect the democratic decision of the people of Crimea. It makes my Country look incredibly weak as a proponent of Democracy in the world.



Edited, Mar 8th 2014 4:23pm by rdmcandie

Nope I am arguing against this particular incident because I don't agree with it. I think we have done some really good things throughout the world. We have done some really ****** things. If anyone is to blame for Crimea wishing to leave Ukraine...it is most likely Western Diplomacy in action.