Ukraine has issuesFollow

He would be wouldn't he. I am not sure he can afford not to.

Sigh, it may surprise you, you condescending prick, but most Pollacks were following it fairly closely. It is part of the national sport to watch others and complain about badly we did in comparison.

You mistake cause and effect if you think that the ultimatum was what brought this on. It was merely a trigger.

It is not your fault. You are not an idiot. Lenin would call a useful idiot. Subtle difference.

Edited, Mar 3rd 2014 8:37pm by angrymnk

It is a weird feeling not having (completely) to disagree with you. I feel like balance of powers is shifting...

The EU deal wasn't bad until Brussels said that if Ukraine wanted a deal they couldn't take the Russian Energy deal. In fact it was a solid deal for the EU, Ukraine and Russia. So it really doesn't make sense why it was changed last minute. The impression is gravely mistaken though, most Ukrainian people want to go with Ukraine, whether they are on the East or West side. The support for joining the EU proper is actually pretty low, not as low as joining NATO though, just as the support for joining Russia is very low. The breaking point came down entirely to the EU essentially torpedoing a deal that had been in the works for over a year, for no real reason. (at least none that I have been able to track down.)



Of course its a military action, but it was an action called for by Crimea. The PM of Crimea was elected just the same as Yats up in Kiev. Regardless of whose "side" they are on, Russia didn't waltz into Ukraine, they were asked to come. This was done because Kievs illegitimate government now controlled the military, and the illegitimate government in Crimea didn't have the capacity to defend itself if Kiev came knocking. So really the whole military thing is a moot point except in Western Media and CNN TV ratings. The EU deal had nothing to do with instating Ukraine into the EU. It was a trade deal and and agreement in principle of future membership discussion (kind of like where Turkey is sitting.) and as such Russia had very little to fear of losing Ukraine to the EU...and really doesn't because contrary to popular American Media opinion, EU and Russia get along pretty decently, especially Germany and Russia.

Pretty much the entirety of the "heightened" situation is based on the US media running roughshod into it without really fact checking anything. I blame the 10 months of AntiGay and Syria is in bed with Moscow coverage ignoring the whole 2013 year between Ukraine, EU and Russia. To be honest up until middle of last year things were looking really good for Ukraine, they had a solid EU trade deal on the table, They had advanced talks with Russia on future Energy cooperation and debt consolidation. Then it all went to rat **** when Brussels said pick one or the other.

Hell even a few weeks ago Russia, Ukraine, and the EU were back at the table hammering out a deal to fix the current situation and they had reached one, but that is over with now since the US got involved with Kiev and the government. Now its an old Cold War style who blinks first stand off at high noon.

Unless the people of Crimea don't want to be part of the Ukraine anymore. So really whomever is in Kiev is irrelevant. It would be just like the Republic of Texas going back to being its own thing, or any of the states in the US. They can leave whenever they want. If people in Crimea didn't like it, they wouldn't be out in the streets waving the ole tribar and flying it from their windows, and off their businesses, and on their state buildings.

http://pressall.wordpress.com/2014/03/01/thousands-rally-against-illegitimate-govt-raise-russian-flags-in-eastern-ukraine/



Spin it however you want though. People of Crimea elected their officials, they elected the new PM, they are very happy with the choice. Or at least as happy with it as the couple thousand who spoke on behalf of all Ukrainians when they torched Kiev last month.


Edited, Mar 3rd 2014 10:25pm by rdmcandie

If you need to quote 6 times for 1 liners you are trying to hard. Want a discussion then lets have one but I ain't playing @#%^ing quote tag.

Ill start:
EU Torpedoed a deal:
People protesting Ukraine Government in Kiev, its good because they like the EU!
US pushed in some pro west dudes into government with only 380 something votes in a country of ~25M and It counts!
People protesting Ukraine Government in Sevastopol is bad because they like the RUS! Elect own leader doesn't count!
Russia asked to come defend the Crimea Region, by Crimeans.
US loses its sh*t.
EU not saying much.
Putin has a giant erection.

Your turn.



Edited, Mar 3rd 2014 10:57pm by rdmcandie

e: please stick to the format above.

Edited, Mar 3rd 2014 10:57pm by rdmcandie

Wait, what?

I'm pretty sure we fought a war over this.

We really need to reevaluate the results of that one.

I am sure if the ones in the West wanted Russian protection he would give it to them too. Putin will protect all behind his curtain.

Really though, I find the event to be excellent at display the hypocrisy of the west. To think 2 weeks ago EU, Ukraine, and Russia had a deal reached that would have defused the situation. Then US of A had to push it off the cliff. Typical though really.

Go Putin!

Also lol at the US offering 1B aid package. 2 Weeks ago Ukraine still had 15B from Russia on the table, and a deal that would save them upwards of 20B in energy costs....And John McCain saying "Russia doesn't want a democracy on his doorstep" when Russia is surrounded by democracies hell some are EU and Some are even NATO. Heck even Russia is a Democracy...well at least its seated government, Putin and Medvedev have a cool thing going on...but Russians haven't stormed the Kremlin so they must not care to much.

Edited, Mar 4th 2014 10:56am by rdmcandie

Probably because opposing Putin means you're likely to be sent to prison or a camp of some sort. Russia is as much a democracy as China is.

I'm pretty sure you're still allowed to dislike him, you just can't do anything about it.

Is that so wrong?

Nope I do not affiliate with any political parties. I make my choice based on the climate of my country (or province) and whomever seems to have the best plan moving forward from that point. If you surround yourself with all like thinkers it stunts personal growth, similarly if you surround your country with all like thinkers it stunts national growth, and of course this applies on the international level as well. There are aspects of communism that are really good and aspects that are really poor, there are aspects of capitalism that are really good and aspects that are really poor. In the current world climate there is just a lot more Capitalism to hate on than Communism.


Edited, Mar 4th 2014 11:53am by rdmcandie

Also communism in and of itself doesn't need to be a dictatorship, just as capitalism doesn't need be a democracy. Obviously it is easier to corrupt a government in a Communism, and it is easier for capitalism to thrive in a democracy. But these are economic ideologies, not inherently Government archetypes. You can just as easily be a Communist Democracy, as you can be a Capitalist Dictatorship. Or you could be some type of Hybrid Socialist Democracy (Canada) or Socialist Dictatorship (China).

Edited, Mar 4th 2014 11:59am by rdmcandie