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#52 Feb 28 2014 at 3:01 PM Rating: Default
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Smasharoo wrote:
Let's not forget that it's called the "Affordable Care Act". The claimed objective was to lower costs. I'd say that they failed quite miserably at that.

Really? Still shows massive cost savings in every model. Including the Heritage Foundation's "model". I'd say you failed quite miserably at knowing a @#%^ing thing about it. Shocking.


Source? I call BS.
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#53 Feb 28 2014 at 3:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Or they're a fatty.
It's America so probably this.
Or the server just defaults to entering 1 on every bill, because they're lazy, which still fits America.
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#54 Feb 28 2014 at 3:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
My point here is that it's not about people's purchasing choices at all, but about raising awareness of the cost of Obamacare.

Twenty pennies apparently. Dun-Dun-DUNNNNN!!!!
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#55 Feb 28 2014 at 3:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
I keep saying this, and people keep responding with stuff like "But will this increase or decrease business at the restaurant chain?". I don't know, and honestly don't think that's much of a factor.
It's like you're going out of your way to give away how little you understand without flat out saying it.
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#56 Feb 28 2014 at 3:31 PM Rating: Default
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cynyck wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Let's not forget that it's called the "Affordable Care Act". The claimed objective was to lower costs. I'd say that they failed quite miserably at that.

Serious question and not meant to be contrary (meaning, I'm not going to get into a senseless debate), but wasn't the "affordable" part supposed to refer to the uninsured who were uninsured because insurance was unaffordable? Of course, I could be just another uninformed American. But at least I'm not an uninsured uninformed American.


No. Obama repeatedly made claims about how the cost to the typical American family would be reduced under his plan:

Here, he's clearly addressing total health care costs rising over time and the need to address that. He's not just talking about poor people.

Obama wrote:
The problem is not that folks are trying to avoid getting health care; the problem is they can’t afford it. My plan emphasizes lowering costs, not only setting up a government plan so that people who don’t have health insurance can buy into it and will get subsidized, but also making sure that those who have health insurance but are struggling with rising co-payments, deductibles, premiums. Under Bush, families are paying 78% more on health care than they were previously. We put in a catastrophic re-insurance plan that will help reduce those premiums for families by an average of about $2,500 per year. Every expert that’s looked at this has said there is not a single person out there who’s going to want health care who will not get it under my plan. My plan also says children will be able to stay on the parents’ plan up until the age of 25. Both Edwards and Hillary have a hardship exemption, where, if people can’t afford to buy health care, you exempt them, so that you don’t count them.


This one's really ironic given that he's criticizing Romney's health care plan for the whole "mandate and fine" bit that is precisely what his own health care plan ended out doing (only on a much larger scale). Again though, he clearly sold his health care reform plan on the idea that it would actually reduce costs, so much so that people wouldn't just choose to pay the fine rather than buy the insurance.

That's clearly not what happened though.

Quote:
If, in fact, we are not making healthcare affordable enough, which is what’s happening right now, and you mandate on families to buy health insurance that they can’t afford and if they don’t buy it you fine them or in some other way take money for them. What is happening in Massachusetts right now, which is that folks are having to pay fines and they don’t have health care. They’d rather go ahead and take the fine because they can’t afford the coverage. My core belief is that people desperately want coverage, and my plan provides those same subsidies. If they are provided those subsidies and they have good, quality care that’s available, then they will purchase it. That is my belief. I never said that we should try to go ahead and get single payer. What I said was that if I were starting from scratch, if we didn’t have a system in which employers had typically provided health care, I would probably go with a single-payer system.


And there's this:

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“I’ll be a president who finally makes health care affordable to every single American by bringing Democrats and Republicans together. I’ll be a president who ends the tax break for companies that ship our jobs overseas and put a middle class tax cut into the pockets of working Americans. And I’ll be a president who ends this war in Iraq and finally brings our troops home. We are one nation and our time for change has come.”


Affordable to "every single American". Oh. And the other stuff is amusing too.


Here's one where he's very directly claiming to save money for everyone, including folks who already can "afford" health insurance.

Quote:
My emphasis is on driving down the costs, taking on the insurance companies, making sure that they are limited in the ability to extract profits and deny coverage, and the drug companies have to do what’s right by their patients instead of simply hoarding their profits. We’ve got very conservative, credible estimates that say we can save families that do have health insurance about a thousand dollars a year, and we provide coverage for everybody else. We provide mandatory health care for children



I suppose I could keep going on, but hopefully that's sufficient to make the point. These are all quotes from Obama's 2008 campaign btw. So this is what he intended to do. What he actually ended out doing (well, his party technically) was to simply take the existing system, with its flaws, and make it bigger and more costly, while not actually fixing any of the problems.

Imagine if we decided that cars were too expensive and many people couldn't afford them, and those who could were spending far too much on them. Enter the government. Now imagine if the proposed solution to this problem was to mandate that every single American must purchase a new car once every 5 years, and that every car sold in the US had to have 11+ air bags, heated/cooled leather seats, a navigation system, run flat tires, voice activated systems, bluetooth connectivity, multi-zone air conditioning, automatic locks, windows, etc, and the full range of "bells and whistles". Any sane person would realize that this wouldn't decrease the cost of cars, but would dramatically increase it, right? Before, I could buy an old beater for a few grand if I wanted. Now, I can't.


That's more or less what Obamcare does for health care. It proposes to make health care more affordable by mandating that everyone must purchase health insurance, and further mandates the minimum coverage that health insurance must provide (which basically means paying for a bunch of stuff whether you want/need it or not). And it's also insane to even suggest that this would reduce costs. How? It can't do so. It will increase costs. Not a little bit. But dramatically.
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#57 Feb 28 2014 at 3:34 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
My point here is that it's not about people's purchasing choices at all, but about raising awareness of the cost of Obamacare.

Twenty pennies apparently. Dun-Dun-DUNNNNN!!!!


Let's let the customer decide then. If it's not a big deal to them, then it's not a big deal. But then one must wonder why liberals are all in a tizzy over this. If you really honestly believe that the cost printed on the bills are so small that most people will react with a "that's it?", then shouldn't you be happy about this? Hell. You should be arguing that every restaurant and business do this, just to show everyone how cheap Obamcare is.

If you really believed that, of course.

Edited, Feb 28th 2014 1:34pm by gbaji
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#58 Feb 28 2014 at 3:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
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“I’ll be a president who finally makes health care affordable to every single American by bringing Democrats and Republicans together.”
Affordable to "every single American". Oh. And the other stuff is amusing too.
You'll never get why it is amusing, though. Smiley: frown
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#59 Feb 28 2014 at 3:51 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
My point here is that it's not about people's purchasing choices at all, but about raising awareness of the cost of Obamacare.

Twenty pennies apparently. Dun-Dun-DUNNNNN!!!!


Let's let the customer decide then. If it's not a big deal to them, then it's not a big deal. But then one must wonder why liberals are all in a tizzy over this. If you really honestly believe that the cost printed on the bills are so small that most people will react with a "that's it?", then shouldn't you be happy about this? Hell. You should be arguing that every restaurant and business do this, just to show everyone how cheap Obamcare is.

If you really believed that, of course.


I am happy about it. It was my suggestion! It shows how petty and vindictive certain small business owners are, and how little the ACA is actually costing the business since they're passing the cost along to the customer! Smiley: schooled
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#60 Feb 28 2014 at 3:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Hell. You should be arguing that every restaurant and business do this.
Yeah okay.

I kind of like the more transparency thing. It's so hard to get data about these issues anyway, especially once they become political, then you feel you can't trust anyone's numbers. Lots of big studies with odd extrapolations and questionable surveys, very little hard feedback about what goes where and what costs what.

I suppose I wouldn't be in favor of mandating crazy amounts of detail on receipts really, or anything like that, but it sure is nice to see something like this from time to time. I don't think the average person knows who's really paying what in taxes, or how much different programs are costing people. I mean a hotel will add a "tourism tax" to the bill as a separate line, your airline ticket will usually have the details, but for the most part it all gets hidden away and rolled into the price of the item.
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#61 Feb 28 2014 at 4:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Careful now people. If we start adding on every add-on on the taxes lines, soon the restaurants will be blowing through more receipt paper and they'll have to start charging you extra for that.
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#62 Feb 28 2014 at 4:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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This is timber country; supports local economy, renewable resource, etc. We could word it as a "jobs bill" and no one would notice.
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#63 Feb 28 2014 at 4:24 PM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Careful now people. If we start adding on every add-on on the taxes lines, soon the restaurants will be blowing through more receipt paper and they'll have to start charging you extra for that.


Can you actually just go ahead and staple a copy of your accounts to every receipt?
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#64 Feb 28 2014 at 5:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
But then one must wonder why liberals are all in a tizzy over this.

For certain definitions of "tizzy", I guess. Or certain definitions of "liberals". I'm sure you can find someone out there or maybe even multiple someones worked up about this but the reaction in this thread has been pretty lackluster. I can't answer for why random people from the internet are in a tizzy. I'd suggest that they probably shouldn't be.

Quote:
You should be arguing that every restaurant and business do this, just to show everyone how cheap Obamcare is.

Well, I don't for the same reason I don't expect them to itemize any other overhead expense -- I don't really see the point and don't really care beyond the bottom line. That said, if anyone else wants to do this, bully for them.
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#65 Feb 28 2014 at 5:21 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
I don't think alma is comparing the surcharge to a tip. I think Gbaji made an argument in another thread about how an extra buck on your tab might be the breaking point between being able to afford to go out and eat or not. The response there being that if a buck was going to topple your household finances, you probably shouldn't be trying to toe the brink of fiscal ruin by budgeting out your final discretionary pennies anyway.

This. Contrary to some, having knowledge and experience in "business, people and politics", don't weigh heavily in knowing how to budget your own money.

Gbaji wrote:
Yeah. That's what Alma keeps insisting I was saying. Complete with all sorts of the same "if one dollar breaks you, you shouldn't be eating out at all anyway" logic. The actual point I was making is that every penny of a bill affects the decision to pay it versus spending that money on something else.
Which is exactly what I'm "insisting" that you are incorrectly saying. Every penny does not affect your decision. The average person understands that unless something is on sale or devalued, prices tend to rise over time. The average person also takes the overall value of a product in consideration before deciding NOT to purchase something because of a raise. A .20 raise on a steak dinner is not weighed the same for .20 for a can of soda, piece of candy or any relatively cheap item.

Gbaji wrote:
Most people make spending choices well before the point at which they physically can't afford something. Alma doesn't seem to grasp that though. He seems to think that everyone just looks at the money they have and the cost of something and if the former is more than the latter, they buy it. I suppose maybe some really stupid people manage their money that way, but most people don't.
Lie. What I've explicitly said several times is that a person budgets before they go. If you go to Chilli's, you might budget to spend $9.99- $15.00. If your favorite meal has been appropriately priced at $14.99 and for whatever reason it became $15.50, you would still pay for it even though it exceeded your budget.

Gbaji wrote:
Having said that, this has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. My point here is that it's not about people's purchasing choices at all, but about raising awareness of the cost of Obamacare. I keep saying this, and people keep responding with stuff like "But will this increase or decrease business at the restaurant chain?". I don't know, and honestly don't think that's much of a factor. IMO, the bigger point to the "gimmic" is to get people to realize that Obamcare affects the costs of things other than just the bill they pay for health insurance.


Which is perfectly fine until you start accusing people of being secretive and hiding charges.

Edited, Mar 1st 2014 2:37am by Almalieque
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#66 Feb 28 2014 at 6:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Most people make spending choices well before the point at which they physically can't afford something.

Nope. Most people don't notice incremental change until it reaches certain trigger points. Well understood. Hence $19.99 rather than $20. They also pretty much completely ignore external fees added to "prices" up to about 20% of the "price". Hence $299 plane tickets with added security fees that cost $340, random small charges on utility bills, etc. People aren't rational. They ABSOLUTELY don't make rational choices about spending on things like eating at a restaurant far in advance. That's almost all impulse spending. If they decide to curtail such spending it's almost always driven by them feeling like money is tight, price is meaningless.
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#67 Feb 28 2014 at 6:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Source? I call BS.

On yourself? How novel. I agree, though, the idea that ACA is driving up healthcare costs is universally acknowledged to be complete bullsh*t. Glad you came around. Or wait, were you asking me to find YOUR source? I'm not actually a psychic. I realize that's confusing to you, as our difference in raw intelligence must make many of the things I explain to you seem like magic, but I can't provide a source for your incorrect assumption. Or did you mean I should provide a source for every model of the spending impact of ACA? Because that would be even stupider, and while you're very stupid, that seems like a stretch even for you.
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#68 Feb 28 2014 at 6:16 PM Rating: Good
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The affordable care act is a liberal, big givernment policy so it costs everybody lots of money. How much more proof could you possibly need?
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#69 Feb 28 2014 at 7:08 PM Rating: Default
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Sigh. Putting the original statement back in, so you don't try to weasel out of it:

Smasharoo wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Let's not forget that it's called the "Affordable Care Act". The claimed objective was to lower costs. I'd say that they failed quite miserably at that.
Really? Still shows massive cost savings in every model. Including the Heritage Foundation's "model". I'd say you failed quite miserably at knowing a @#%^ing thing about it. Shocking.


Source? I call BS.

On yourself? How novel. I agree, though, the idea that ACA is driving up healthcare costs is universally acknowledged to be complete bullsh*t.


Where are the sources for your claim that the ACA has produced "massive costs savings". That's what I'm calling BS on Smash. Stop trying to move the goalposts.

Edited, Feb 28th 2014 5:08pm by gbaji
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#70 Feb 28 2014 at 7:17 PM Rating: Default
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someproteinguy wrote:
I suppose I wouldn't be in favor of mandating crazy amounts of detail on receipts really, or anything like that, but it sure is nice to see something like this from time to time. I don't think the average person knows who's really paying what in taxes, or how much different programs are costing people. I mean a hotel will add a "tourism tax" to the bill as a separate line, your airline ticket will usually have the details, but for the most part it all gets hidden away and rolled into the price of the item.


Why do people continually exclude the middle between "oppose this" and "mandate this" (or, I suppose in this case, equate "support this" with "mandate this")?

I'm simply responding to all the people in this thread who seem to think that the restaurant is doing something horrible/wrong/whatever by doing this. It's not about mandating anything. The restaurant is free to itemize their bills however the hell they want. It just seems like some people don't like the idea of focusing on the cost of Obamacare on the receipt. And all the insistence in the world that "when people see that line, they'll realize just how cheap Obamacare is" doesn't really fly IMO. Seems almost more like those saying it know it's wishful thinking.
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#71 Feb 28 2014 at 7:31 PM Rating: Default
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gbaji wrote:
Quote:
“I’ll be a president who finally makes health care affordable to every single American by bringing Democrats and Republicans together.”
Affordable to "every single American". Oh. And the other stuff is amusing too.
You'll never get why it is amusing, though. Smiley: frown


It's amusing because he failed to achieve and/or did the exact opposite of each of those things listed:

1. bringing Democrats and Republicans together. More or less did the exact opposite. Obama has been the most polarizing president we've ever had.

2. ends the tax break for companies that ship our jobs overseas. Hasn't done anything on this front at all, although he has engaged in policies which will increase the number of jobs shipped overseas (Obamcare for one).

3. put a middle class tax cut into the pockets of working Americans. Yeah... right. Minor adjustments to payroll taxes aren't what most middle class people would count s a "tax cut". The loss of revenue and jobs by the middle class (arguably a direct result of his failed "spend our way out of a recession" policy) more than outweighs any positive he did. I'd rather pay a higher payroll tax on higher pay, and I suspect so would everyone else.

4. ends this war in Iraq and finally brings our troops home. Yeah. He made no changes from the Iraq timetable set by the Bush administration. So either he didn't do what he promised, or it was an empty promise to begin with.
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#72 Feb 28 2014 at 7:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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So your goal in that post was to agree with me? Thanks, I guess.
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#73 Feb 28 2014 at 8:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
I'm simply responding to all the people in this thread who seem to think that the restaurant is doing something horrible/wrong/whatever by doing this.

Have you actually read the thread? I think the most ire raised has been along the lines of "sort of pouty". Who are "all the people"?

Edit: For accuracy, the worst it's been called was "gimmicky" by Elinda. Whoa, Nelly! Slow down with all that horrible tizzy-ness! Smiley: laugh

Edited, Feb 28th 2014 8:37pm by Jophiel
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#74 Feb 28 2014 at 8:35 PM Rating: Default
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Why do people continually exclude the middle between "oppose this" and "mandate this" (or, I suppose in this case, equate "support this" with "mandate this")?

I'm simply responding to all the people in this thread who seem to think that the restaurant is doing something horrible/wrong/whatever by doing this. It's not about mandating anything. The restaurant is free to itemize their bills however the hell they want. It just seems like some people don't like the idea of focusing on the cost of Obamacare on the receipt. And all the insistence in the world that "when people see that line, they'll realize just how cheap Obamacare is" doesn't really fly IMO. Seems almost more like those saying it know it's wishful thinking.


Not at all. All of the people who favor the ACA will point out that it was only a minimal charge and no one got fired, reduced hours, less pay/etc. Opponents of ACA will point out how their prices increased. Finally, you will continually ignore the fact that phrased your post as if other businesses were being deceptive and this business was "leading the way" in doing the "right thing".
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#75 Feb 28 2014 at 8:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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And my argument wasn't that people would see it and say "Wow! The ACA is really cheap! What a great deal!" so much as that it's so small as to be a nonevent. No one who wasn't already against it is going to say "Holy Christ! Twenty cents!? This is an outrage!" either. It looks sort of silly sitting there on the receipt but that's mainly because the owner is going through the extra effort of essentially pointing out a speck of dust. Hard to get excited about it either way.
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#76 Feb 28 2014 at 9:02 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
I'm simply responding to all the people in this thread who seem to think that the restaurant is doing something horrible/wrong/whatever by doing this.

Have you actually read the thread? I think the most ire raised has been along the lines of "sort of pouty". Who are "all the people"?


Hmmm... Let's see. It could be the almost immediate need to identify the restaurant chain in question as "horrid" and search yelp for reviews (that's two people right off the bat). A couple people also did the "why add a surcharge" question (so kinda again going with the "these guys are evil business types" angle). Next it was dismissing what was being done as "gimmicky". Then a back and forth questioning whether conservatives would go there because it's "anti-obama" or would not because they're being charged more (even though they aren't). Then it was Captain Obvious' "it's political!" bit.

Need I go on? It's usually a good bet that when the forum liberals ignore the issue at hand (in this case, costs attributed to Obamacare) and go right to deriding the restaurant itself (and "greedy conservatives" as well), that they don't want to talk about the potential costs of Obama care, whether the claimed costs are accurate, or even if those costs are worth it. Nope. They just want to dismiss anyone who brings up the subject at all.


Whether you all are aware of this, or you're just parroting the behavior of other liberals you've seen, but you're doing things right out of Alinsky's rules for radicals. And that's not about how to engage in honest debate, but how to manipulate and twist facts and opinions to get what you want even when you know most people don't agree. It's about how to "win" even when you're actually wrong by not even trying to prove you are right, and not trying to prove the other guy is wrong, but just calling the other guy stupid and wrong over and over.

It's a tactic which shouldn't work, if we lived in a world of intelligent and educated people. Sadly, we don't, and so such things do work. You'd think folks would start to pick up on it eventually though. I mean, how many times do I have to provide a lengthy logical argument for my position only to be responded to with "everyone knows you're wrong. You're so dumb. Hahahaha!!!" before the lightbulb goes of in some heads around here.
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#77 Feb 28 2014 at 9:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Hmmm... Let's see. It could be the almost immediate need to identify the restaurant chain in question as "horrid" and search yelp for reviews (that's two people right off the bat). A couple people also did the "why add a surcharge" question (so kinda again going with the "these guys are evil business types" angle). Next it was dismissing what was being done as "gimmicky". Then a back and forth questioning whether conservatives would go there because it's "anti-obama" or would not because they're being charged more (even though they aren't). Then it was Captain Obvious' "it's political!" bit.

So no one really called it horrible or acted all that worked up over it. That's all you really needed to say. Funny how everyone is just SO mad but you need to try to string together a bunch of other stuff rather than just quoting someone saying "This is horrible!"

Quote:
It's usually a good bet that when the forum liberals ignore the issue at hand (in this case, costs attributed to Obamacare)

The "issue at hand" was defined in the OP: What were people's opinions on the restaurant adding an ACA surcharge to the receipt. Talking about the restaurant, its ownership, etc all falls right on in there. You're the only one stomping around and pouting that we're not all having the RLY SRS DISCUSSION you demand we all have.

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Whether you all are aware of this, or you're just parroting the behavior of other liberals you've seen, but you're doing things right out of Alinsky's rules for radicals.

That's the Tea Party handbook, right? Smiley: laugh

Edited, Feb 28th 2014 9:11pm by Jophiel
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#78 Feb 28 2014 at 9:12 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
No one who wasn't already against it is going to say "Holy Christ! Twenty cents!? This is an outrage!" either.


I think that's a cop out though. That's like dismissing the whole "if you like your heath care you can keep it" thing because only people who were already against Obamcare cared that this claim wasn't true.

I'll say the same thing I say every single time you (or any of a dozen other's from the peanut gallery) pull the whole "it's not a big cost/deal/whatever" after the fact: If that's true, then why weren't they honest about these things up front when trying to get support? Why not say "Yup. Many of you will lose your current health care, but you'll get something better in return!", or "It'll cost more, but the benefits are worth the cost".

I can respect an honest socialist. What kills me is how many people clearly support socialist ideas, but clearly also realize that most people around them don't, but instead of trying to change their minds, they decide to just lie about what they're doing and the effects it will have. That's dishonest as hell. If you honestly believe that the costs and inconveniences of Obamcare are well worth it for the benefits, then freaking say so. Not on a forum after the fact. But openly, publicly, while the debate is going on.


But you guys on the left never do this, do you? Which, as I say often, speaks volumes about your opinion about your own ideology. How can you believe in an ideology that you have to lie about to trick people into adopting? If it's so great, then win people over. If you can't, then maybe acknowledge that maybe it's not so great.


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It looks sort of silly sitting there on the receipt but that's mainly because the owner is going through the extra effort of essentially pointing out a speck of dust. Hard to get excited about it either way.


And yet, a topic was created, and folks jumped out of the woodwork to deride the business for doing so. Even your whole "speck of dust" comment is clearly designed to be dismissive. If it's no big deal, then why make a big deal out of how you think it's no big deal? Just let him do what he wants and let his customers decide (gee. It's like I've been saying this over and over).
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#79 Feb 28 2014 at 9:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
I think that's a cop out though.

*Shrug*
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And yet, a topic was created, and folks jumped out of the woodwork to deride the business for doing so.

"Jumped out of the woodwork"? Really? Holy crap, Elinda and Lolgaxe posted in a thread! Call the media! They're comin' out of the woodwork! Smiley: laugh
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If it's no big deal, then why make a big deal out of how you think it's no big deal?

"Make a big deal" how, exactly? By posting in a thread on Forum=4? Really? Are you new here? Do you equivocate posting some flip remarks to protesting, writing a letter, calling your Congressman, rolling over cars and lighting them on fire, etc?

Look, I'm sorry everyone here isn't properly worked up about this for you to point and say "Look how mad you all are" but... well... people just aren't all that worked up. It ain't that big a deal. Even if I did write a post about it.
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#80 Feb 28 2014 at 9:49 PM Rating: Good
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Alinsky was big on humorously discussing a restaurant receipt with an audience of 30 people, I guess. Really firin' up the counterculture in here.
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#81 Feb 28 2014 at 10:00 PM Rating: Default
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Gbaji wrote:
Then it was Captain Obvious' "it's political!" bit.

You mean the "They are not uncovering some secret, simply being political"?
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#82 Feb 28 2014 at 10:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:

"Make a big deal" how, exactly? By posting in a thread on Forum=4?

*sheepish voice*

I just thought it would be something interesting to discuss.

Smiley: um
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#83 Feb 28 2014 at 11:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
How can you believe in an ideology that you have to lie about to trick people into adopting?
Family values? Religion? War? Irony?
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#84 Feb 28 2014 at 11:48 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
And yet, a topic was created, and folks jumped out of the woodwork to deride the business for doing so.
"Jumped out of the woodwork"? Really? Holy crap, Elinda and Lolgaxe posted in a thread! Call the media! They're comin' out of the woodwork! Smiley: laugh
I guess I should post more to work my way out of obscurity. Smiley: frown
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#85 Mar 01 2014 at 10:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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I notice gbaji is completely ignoring the fact that I said this was a good idea. Smiley: rolleyes
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#86 Mar 01 2014 at 10:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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No way. Liberals are REALLY MAD about this and Gbaji has to explain to us why we're wrong. And if you're not REALLY MAD it's because you're pretending not to be and trying to fool others because you really are.
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#87 Mar 01 2014 at 11:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thread needs a Droopy Dog image.
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#88 Mar 01 2014 at 2:48 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
cynyck wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Let's not forget that it's called the "Affordable Care Act". The claimed objective was to lower costs. I'd say that they failed quite miserably at that.

Serious question and not meant to be contrary (meaning, I'm not going to get into a senseless debate), but wasn't the "affordable" part supposed to refer to the uninsured who were uninsured because insurance was unaffordable? Of course, I could be just another uninformed American. But at least I'm not an uninsured uninformed American.


No. Obama repeatedly made claims about how the cost to the typical American family would be reduced under his plan:

Here, he's clearly addressing total health care costs rising over time and the need to address that. He's not just talking about poor people.

Obama wrote:
The problem is not that folks are trying to avoid getting health care; the problem is they can’t afford it. My plan emphasizes lowering costs, not only setting up a government plan so that people who don’t have health insurance can buy into it and will get subsidized, but also making sure that those who have health insurance but are struggling with rising co-payments, deductibles, premiums.

Hold on, you said "no" but then you quoted him saying both what you suggested and what I suggested. So he said both, and we were both correct. But you refused to say "Actually, we're both correct." Now that's kind of senseless.

And I did say I would not get into a senseless debate. So, I'm going to concede that you are absolutely right, and I was completely wrong. There, now isn't that better? I'm letting you be right without being correct.

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#89 Mar 01 2014 at 6:49 PM Rating: Good
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And yet, a topic was created, and folks jumped out of the woodwork to deride the business for doing so.

Sure, it's an obvious source of derision. Some idiot decided to itemize *one* cost "related" to a government program on a receipt. Only one, though. No Social Security Fee, no Medicare Fee, no Military Expenditures Fee, etc. That's the part worth of ridicule, you @#%^ing infant. A portion of the population has so entirely gulped down the endless negative spin that it's allowed some @#%^ing yokel diner to try to make a few extra pennies per bill. If a vegan cafe in Venice did the same thing with a "Corporations as People Fee" or whatever (sorry it's hard to think of something stupid enough) it would be equally ridiculed.

Deriding something stupid, like charring a "fee" based on a law where ABSOLUTELY @#%^ING NOTHING HAPPENS IF YOU CURRENTLY CHOOSE NOT TO COMPLY UNTIL 2015 is amusing. Really, they should break down the whole business plan on each receipt. $5 for ingredients, $.15 for illegal dishwashers, etc. Why so selective, Gators Dockside? I'm sure your clientele would be delighted to see your net profit on each purchase they make, and how much of their bill goes to each of your 500 employees. See the funny part, yet, moron? I'm just kidding, we're well aware of your sense of humor deficiency.
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#90 Mar 01 2014 at 7:00 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
I'm simply responding to all the people in this thread who seem to think that the restaurant is doing something horrible/wrong/whatever by doing this.

Have you actually read the thread? I think the most ire raised has been along the lines of "sort of pouty". Who are "all the people"?

Edit: For accuracy, the worst it's been called was "gimmicky" by Elinda. Whoa, Nelly! Slow down with all that horrible tizzy-ness! Smiley: laugh

Edited, Feb 28th 2014 8:37pm by Jophiel

It's more than gimmicky, it'bad business. Why alienate a portion of you customer base? Politics and retail don't mix so well.
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#91 Mar 01 2014 at 10:25 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Why alienate a portion of your customer base?
To seem more attractive to the rest of the customer base.
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#92 Mar 02 2014 at 7:22 AM Rating: Default
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lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Why alienate a portion of your customer base?
To seem more attractive to the rest of the customer base.


I realize that I appear to be business ignorant to some/many, but I would argue that the intent should be to expand the base WITHOUT alienating.
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#93 Mar 02 2014 at 8:17 AM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Why alienate a portion of your customer base?
To seem more attractive to the rest of the customer base.


I realize that I appear to be business ignorant to some/many, but I would argue that the intent should be to expand the base WITHOUT alienating.


You forget the political climate we live in.
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#94 Mar 02 2014 at 9:55 AM Rating: Good
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I'm more upset that the customer didn't want a bun on his damn chili dog.
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#95 Mar 02 2014 at 10:35 AM Rating: Good
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
I'm more upset that the customer didn't want a bun on his damn chili dog.
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#96 Mar 02 2014 at 11:42 AM Rating: Default
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TirithRR wrote:

You forget the political climate we live in.


I'm aware of the climate, I was just validating Elinda's question. Just like Arizona's anti-gay law. If I'm a baker, anything short of "cake-bombs", I wouldn't care what you do with the cake. It's silly to alienate a group of people for the sake of politics. If I were a baker in Arizona, I would support the ban just to take their customers.
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#97 Mar 02 2014 at 12:12 PM Rating: Good
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You people are clearly falling right into Gator's Dockside's hands Smiley: oyvey
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#98 Mar 02 2014 at 12:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Blah, blah "any publicity" blah, blah.

Since the chance of me (or any of us) eating there is approximately nil, there isn't much benefit -- or cost -- to us discussing it.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#99 Mar 02 2014 at 12:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Thread needs a Droopy Dog image.


I was thinking Marvin the Martian, on behalf of all the SO ANGRY liberals here.


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#100 Mar 02 2014 at 12:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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#101 Mar 02 2014 at 1:18 PM Rating: Good
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::comes out of the woodwork to say::


the whole point of the thread is "That People are stupid and who cares." I don't care if someone who get all his news from Fox decides he has to add a surcharge to patrons bills.

Though I do wonder if the State Tax collectors will go after him for adding it in after taxes.

Darn, they come after me if I forget to report that I didn't make any money the last 3 months, so don't have any taxes to pay. I'm actually good about paying taxes on sales, when I have any.
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