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#1 Feb 27 2014 at 4:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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So how much does Obamacare cost you? Linky.

Quote:
Several restaurants in a Florida chain are asking customers to help foot the bill for Obamacare.

Diners at eight Gator's Dockside casual eateries are finding a 1% Affordable Care Act surcharge on their tabs, which comes to 15 cents on a typical $15 lunch tab. Signs on the door and at tables alert diners to the fee, which is also listed separately on the bill.


Quote:
Clark (edit: their director of operations) is not sure how much the company is spending on compliance, but estimates that it will cost $500,000 a year to extend insurance to its full-time hourly restaurant workers. The surcharge may bring in about $160,000 a year, she hopes.


So there, in a nutshell, is how much Obamacare is increasing costs for this particular business. A little over a 3% surcharge on your meal would over their health care costs, or somewhere around fifty cents on your $15 tab.

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Something about big corporations being weasels.:6 (35.3%)
Something about hidden costs and the tip of the iceberg.:2 (11.8%)
Something about how you knew this all along and everyone else is stupid.:1 (5.9%)
Something about beer and boobs.:8 (47.1%)
Total:17


Edited, Feb 27th 2014 2:19pm by someproteinguy
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#2 Feb 27 2014 at 4:33 PM Rating: Good
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Beer and boobs are always on my thoughts, I also know too little about this to make a sensible comment as I have no idea just how the American insurance/health care system functions (or in how far it functions at all).
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#3 Feb 27 2014 at 4:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Beer and boobs are always on my thoughts, I also know too little about this to make a sensible comment as I have no idea just how the American insurance/health care system functions (or in how far it functions at all).
From what I can tell it's mostly big hospital bills for cheap items and large donations by rich people.
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#4 Feb 27 2014 at 5:02 PM Rating: Good
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Still less underhanded than the various extra costs that come with cellphones.
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#5 Feb 27 2014 at 5:07 PM Rating: Good
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comment below the article wrote:
Cute attempt to get some publicity but on a different level - what's next? Medicare surcharge, energy compliance surcharge, health inspection surcharge, etc. Time to dine elsewhere.


Oh, Florida, etc.
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#6 Feb 27 2014 at 6:39 PM Rating: Good
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Why go somewhere with an additional surcharge? I'm sure there are plenty of equally horrid chain restaurants in the area without it.
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#7 Feb 27 2014 at 7:11 PM Rating: Good
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Checked yelp.com, and ignoring the last two or three reviews the place sounds mediocre at best.
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#8 Feb 27 2014 at 7:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Why add a surcharge to offset costs you haven't even analyzed yet?
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#9 Feb 27 2014 at 7:40 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Why go somewhere with an additional surcharge? I'm sure there are plenty of equally horrid chain restaurants in the area without it.


The point is that you're paying the surcharge whether they tell you about it or not. Every dollar of increased costs related to Obamacare will ultimately be passed on to the customer. The point (in addition to publicity) is to make their customers aware of the extra cost rather than just quietly raising their prices. It's a clever bit of political protest IMO.
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#10 Feb 27 2014 at 7:40 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
Why add a surcharge to offset costs you haven't even analyzed yet?

'Cause Obama.
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#11 Feb 27 2014 at 7:46 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Why go somewhere with an additional surcharge? I'm sure there are plenty of equally horrid chain restaurants in the area without it.


The point is that you're paying the surcharge whether they tell you about it or not. Every dollar of increased costs related to Obamacare will ultimately be passed on to the customer. The point (in addition to publicity) is to make their customers aware of the extra cost rather than just quietly raising their prices. It's a clever bit of political protest IMO.

That's right, we all pay one way or another for being fortunate enough to live in a society where we're free and able to go out to a restaurant and have someone else prepare our food, all fat and happy like. This restaurant chain is trying to make some sort of gimmicky statement. I hope it backfires on them.

If two restaurants are equal except one 'advertises' an extra surcharge, which are you gonna go to?
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#12 Feb 27 2014 at 7:52 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
If two restaurants are equal except one 'advertises' an extra surcharge, which are you gonna go to?


Well, being that it's an "Anti-Obama" statement, then those people will flock to the restaurant in show of support of how Anti-Obama they are.
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#13 Feb 27 2014 at 7:55 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
Elinda wrote:
If two restaurants are equal except one 'advertises' an extra surcharge, which are you gonna go to?


Well, being that it's an "Anti-Obama" statement, then those people will flock to the restaurant in show of support of how Anti-Obama they are.

I doubt it. For most the mighty dollar has much more impact than politics.

Sure, the regulars will support them and they may even generate some anti-Obama business but it they probably won't spend squat and will be short-lived.
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#14 Feb 27 2014 at 8:00 PM Rating: Good
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Which one of these crappy restaurant serves the best nachos? That's where I'm going.
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#15 Feb 27 2014 at 8:05 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
Elinda wrote:
If two restaurants are equal except one 'advertises' an extra surcharge, which are you gonna go to?


Well, being that it's an "Anti-Obama" statement, then those people will flock to the restaurant in show of support of how Anti-Obama they are.

I doubt it. For most the mighty dollar has much more impact than politics.

Sure, the regulars will support them and they may even generate some anti-Obama business but it they probably won't spend squat and will be short-lived.


Well, look at that Chicken place.
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#16 Feb 27 2014 at 8:19 PM Rating: Default
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Elinda wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
Elinda wrote:
If two restaurants are equal except one 'advertises' an extra surcharge, which are you gonna go to?


Well, being that it's an "Anti-Obama" statement, then those people will flock to the restaurant in show of support of how Anti-Obama they are.

I doubt it. For most the mighty dollar has much more impact than politics.


You just said that their prices are the same though (at least I assumed that's what you meant by "equal"). There's no dollar to consider. One just tells you the portion of your bill that went to pay for Obamacare and the other doesn't. It's not a bad way to both explain why you had to raise your prices *and* make a political statement at the same time.
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#17 Feb 27 2014 at 8:30 PM Rating: Default
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gbaji wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Why go somewhere with an additional surcharge? I'm sure there are plenty of equally horrid chain restaurants in the area without it.


The point is that you're paying the surcharge whether they tell you about it or not. Every dollar of increased costs related to Obamacare will ultimately be passed on to the customer. The point (in addition to publicity) is to make their customers aware of the extra cost rather than just quietly raising their prices. It's a clever bit of political protest IMO.


Given that every restaurant increases their prices for one reason or another without notification, it seems quite political to point out the "Obama-fee".

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#18 Feb 27 2014 at 8:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Almalieque wrote:
Given that every restaurant increases their prices for one reason or another without notification, it seems quite political to point out the "Obama-fee".


Thank you for pointing that out to us, Captain Obvious.
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#19 Feb 27 2014 at 9:01 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
Given that every restaurant increases their prices for one reason or another without notification, it seems quite political to point out the "Obama-fee".


Thank you for pointing that out to us, Captain Obvious.


Err.....of course, but you presented it in such a way as if they were doing something good for letting the customers know as opposed to "quietly raising their prices". It wouldn't be "quiet", it would simply be raising a price, just like every other raise. I was pointing out that there is no difference.
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#20 Feb 27 2014 at 9:21 PM Rating: Default
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Almalieque wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
Given that every restaurant increases their prices for one reason or another without notification, it seems quite political to point out the "Obama-fee".


Thank you for pointing that out to us, Captain Obvious.


Err.....of course, but you presented it in such a way as if they were doing something good for letting the customers know as opposed to "quietly raising their prices". It wouldn't be "quiet", it would simply be raising a price, just like every other raise. I was pointing out that there is no difference.


Except that you're raising awareness of the cost of Obamacare. That's the whole point. If your objective is to increase opposition to Obamcare by raising awareness of its cost, showing that cost on your customer's bills isn't a terrible way to do that. It's probably more effective than paying for political ads, and the great thing is that it doesn't cost you anything. You just program in one additional line on your PoS system and off you go. And if you then show other like minded businessmen this idea, they might pick it up and do the same.

Edited, Feb 27th 2014 7:25pm by gbaji
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#21 Feb 27 2014 at 9:39 PM Rating: Good
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It won't drum up new business, nor will they really lose what regular clients they have so it's at best an exercise in futility. Or I guess the owner can feel really good for himself. That has to count for something.
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#22 Feb 27 2014 at 9:41 PM Rating: Decent
Pretty reasonable "tax" to be quite honest. It will get cheaper as the private industry losses control over medical care costs as well. Once the government standardizes costs, the overall effective cost to the tax payer will drop closer to other G8 nations. Assuming of course your congress doesn't go full ****** and pretend they can have a nationwide medical plan, coexist with private medical pricing...in that case the private market will continue to rape the people of the US blind. Then charge them to double to test their eye sight.
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#23 Feb 27 2014 at 9:47 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
It won't drum up new business, nor will they really lose what regular clients they have so it's at best an exercise in futility.


Unless the point is to raise awareness of the cost of Obamacare, in which case doing so while not costing yourself a dime is far from an "exercise in futility", right? Please tell me that you understand that the message is the point? I've only repeated this like 3 times now.

Quote:
Or I guess the owner can feel really good for himself. That has to count for something.


Sure. Just like when Starbucks or Ben and Jerry's promotes some cause by naming a flavor for it, right? It's funny how hard some of you seem to be trying to insist that this is just a pointless waste of time. This chain isn't doing anything different than a zillion other folks out there finding novel ways to get a social or political message out. Is the reluctance to acknowledge that this is a reasonably effective way of getting that message out really about the method, or because it's about Obamcare?

I suspect the latter.
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#24 Feb 27 2014 at 9:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
Pretty reasonable "tax" to be quite honest. It will get cheaper as the private industry losses control over medical care costs as well. Once the government standardizes costs, the overall effective cost to the tax payer will drop closer to other G8 nations. Assuming of course your congress doesn't go full ****** and pretend they can have a nationwide medical plan, coexist with private medical pricing...in that case the private market will continue to rape the people of the US blind. Then charge them to double to test their eye sight.


/shrug Some people will think it's reasonable, some wont. But letting people know lets them make their own decision about that. I think a 3% increase in the price of everything is an incredibly high price to pay for a change in health care that doesn't actually improve anything except for maybe a tiny percentage of people.

Let's not forget that it's called the "Affordable Care Act". The claimed objective was to lower costs. I'd say that they failed quite miserably at that.
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#25 Feb 27 2014 at 9:54 PM Rating: Decent
gbaji wrote:
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
Pretty reasonable "tax" to be quite honest. It will get cheaper as the private industry losses control over medical care costs as well. Once the government standardizes costs, the overall effective cost to the tax payer will drop closer to other G8 nations. Assuming of course your congress doesn't go full ****** and pretend they can have a nationwide medical plan, coexist with private medical pricing...in that case the private market will continue to rape the people of the US blind. Then charge them to double to test their eye sight.


/shrug Some people will think it's reasonable, some wont. But letting people know lets them make their own decision about that. I think a 3% increase in the price of everything is an incredibly high price to pay for a change in health care that doesn't actually improve anything except for maybe a tiny percentage of people.

Let's not forget that it's called the "Affordable Care Act". The claimed objective was to lower costs. I'd say that they failed quite miserably at that.


You know what isn't reasonable.

The tax burden on the US citizen is over twice as much as any other nation in the world for health care, and you have a private system. If costs are so insane with universal health coverage, why is my portion of Health Cost in Canada 3200 bucks, while your portion of Health Cost in US is 7200 bucks (this is 2010 numbers) . Your arguments of cost inflation make no sense when every other G8 nation shows that universal publically controlled health care service keeps overall costs down when compared to a private industry controlled health service.

I know you hate facts and numbers, but you have to be pretty ignorant to argue this. Its not even remotely debatable man.





Edited, Feb 27th 2014 10:56pm by rdmcandie
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#26 Feb 27 2014 at 10:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
I think a 3% increase in the price of everything is an incredibly high price to pay for a change in health care that doesn't actually improve anything except for maybe a tiny percentage of people.
If it helps your health care bill was already covering the cost of my medical plan, so you don't have to pay any extra for that now.
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#27 Feb 27 2014 at 10:07 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
I've only repeated this like 3 times now.
Great, two more times and you get a sandwich. Still doesn't make 1+1=3, though.
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#28 Feb 28 2014 at 12:00 AM Rating: Good
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#29 Feb 28 2014 at 12:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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If I can afford $15 to eat out, I can afford $15.15 or $15.50. So the cost of it isn't really an issue. I'd probably roll my eyes at seeing it itemized and it might stop me from patronizing a place I'm ambivalent about. Probably wouldn't stop me from going if they were the only game in town or had something I really wanted though.
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#30 Feb 28 2014 at 3:58 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Elinda wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
Elinda wrote:
If two restaurants are equal except one 'advertises' an extra surcharge, which are you gonna go to?


Well, being that it's an "Anti-Obama" statement, then those people will flock to the restaurant in show of support of how Anti-Obama they are.

I doubt it. For most the mighty dollar has much more impact than politics.


You just said that their prices are the same though (at least I assumed that's what you meant by "equal"). There's no dollar to consider. One just tells you the portion of your bill that went to pay for Obamacare and the other doesn't. It's not a bad way to both explain why you had to raise your prices *and* make a political statement at the same time.
You give people too much credit. While the total price might end up the same, one has hidden its added cost and people will whine about the extra fee they can actually see on their bill, because that's what they do.
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#31 Feb 28 2014 at 5:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Gbaji wrote:

Except that you're raising awareness of the cost of Obamacare. That's the whole point. If your objective is to increase opposition to Obamcare by raising awareness of its cost, showing that cost on your customer's bills isn't a terrible way to do that. It's probably more effective than paying for political ads, and the great thing is that it doesn't cost you anything. You just program in one additional line on your PoS system and off you go. And if you then show other like minded businessmen this idea, they might pick it up and do the same.


Which is all fine and dandy, but they are still not providing any benefit to the customer as you made it seem by your "quiet" statement.

Jophiel wrote:
If I can afford $15 to eat out, I can afford $15.15 or $15.50. So the cost of it isn't really an issue. I'd probably roll my eyes at seeing it itemized and it might stop me from patronizing a place I'm ambivalent about. Probably wouldn't stop me from going if they were the only game in town or had something I really wanted though


This goes back to the tipping thread. He doesn't understand how to budget. If a slight increase of price breaks your budget, then you're probably spending too much to begin with. In any case, that increase could be budgeted.
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#32 Feb 28 2014 at 6:49 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Elinda wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
Elinda wrote:
If two restaurants are equal except one 'advertises' an extra surcharge, which are you gonna go to?


Well, being that it's an "Anti-Obama" statement, then those people will flock to the restaurant in show of support of how Anti-Obama they are.

I doubt it. For most the mighty dollar has much more impact than politics.


You just said that their prices are the same though (at least I assumed that's what you meant by "equal"). There's no dollar to consider. One just tells you the portion of your bill that went to pay for Obamacare and the other doesn't. It's not a bad way to both explain why you had to raise your prices *and* make a political statement at the same time.
You give people too much credit. While the total price might end up the same, one has hidden its added cost and people will whine about the extra fee they can actually see on their bill, because that's what they do.

It's not hidden. Restaurants and other retailers don't break down their billing by their expenses.

If and when they do, it's a gimmick. That's it. One establishment is 'advertising' ie spreading the good word that they're charging an extra surtax because....obama.


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#33 Feb 28 2014 at 6:50 AM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
Gbaji wrote:

Except that you're raising awareness of the cost of Obamacare. That's the whole point. If your objective is to increase opposition to Obamcare by raising awareness of its cost, showing that cost on your customer's bills isn't a terrible way to do that. It's probably more effective than paying for political ads, and the great thing is that it doesn't cost you anything. You just program in one additional line on your PoS system and off you go. And if you then show other like minded businessmen this idea, they might pick it up and do the same.


Which is all fine and dandy, but they are still not providing any benefit to the customer as you made it seem by your "quiet" statement.

Jophiel wrote:
If I can afford $15 to eat out, I can afford $15.15 or $15.50. So the cost of it isn't really an issue. I'd probably roll my eyes at seeing it itemized and it might stop me from patronizing a place I'm ambivalent about. Probably wouldn't stop me from going if they were the only game in town or had something I really wanted though


This goes back to the tipping thread. He doesn't understand how to budget. If a slight increase of price breaks your budget, then you're probably spending too much to begin with. In any case, that increase could be budgeted.
This is nothing like tipping.
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#34 Feb 28 2014 at 7:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't think alma is comparing the surcharge to a tip. I think Gbaji made an argument in another thread about how an extra buck on your tab might be the breaking point between being able to afford to go out and eat or not. The response there being that if a buck was going to topple your household finances, you probably shouldn't be trying to toe the brink of fiscal ruin by budgeting out your final discretionary pennies anyway.
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#35 Feb 28 2014 at 7:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'd like to see an itemized list of all fees on my restaurant tab.

Compulsory Smoke Detector Fee.................0.000004%
"Employees Must Wash Hands" Signage Fee..............0.000326%
Increased Labor Costs to Clean the Restaurant the Day Before the Health Inspection Fee..............0.0855%

Also, I'd ask to see the COGS of my food, the profit margin, and the company's balance sheet.


Edited, Feb 28th 2014 7:37am by trickybeck
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#36 Feb 28 2014 at 7:38 AM Rating: Good
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Let's not forget that it's called the "Affordable Care Act". The claimed objective was to lower costs. I'd say that they failed quite miserably at that.

Really? Still shows massive cost savings in every model. Including the Heritage Foundation's "model". I'd say you failed quite miserably at knowing a ******* thing about it. Shocking.
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#37 Feb 28 2014 at 7:42 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I think Gbaji made an argument in another thread about how an extra buck on your tab might be the breaking point between being able to afford to go out and eat or not.
I think it's the two people with the least understanding of business, people, and politics trying to argue all three with each other, which means we should be in for a real treat.
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#38 Feb 28 2014 at 7:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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You know what? I actually suggested Papa John's do this about the time they warned that they'd have to raise pizza prices 14 cents.

Personally, an extra dollar is a fine fee to pay to know that the person who prepared the meal doesn't have typhoid fever. Probably.
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#39 Feb 28 2014 at 10:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
If and when they do, it's a gimmick. That's it. One establishment is 'advertising' ie spreading the good word that they're charging an extra surtax because....obama.
Really the first thing going through my mind was "that's really all it is?" Because that's a lot of wasted time fighting over something that added a few cents to a plate of food.

When I read about the hundreds of millions of dollars spent arguing over the legislation (I'm seeing about 500 million since 2010), I can't help but think we could have covered a lot of people with that money. Smiley: rolleyes
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#40 Feb 28 2014 at 10:55 AM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
Personally, an extra dollar is a fine fee to pay to know that the person who prepared the meal doesn't have typhoid fever. Probably.


You probably don't want to know they likely don't get paid sick time.
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#41 Feb 28 2014 at 11:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Really the first thing going through my mind was "that's really all it is?"
My first thought was "What is the quality of the restaurant?" After reading a few reviews (sans the recent knee-jerk additions), I was wondering why subpar places like this and Papa John's are the ones making a big deal about it. I figure it's a lot easier to blame Obama for their lousy profit margins than it is to provide higher quality service.
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#42 Feb 28 2014 at 12:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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The managing partner of a smallish accounting firm here on Long Island was quoted in an article recently, saying that it took him a frustratingly long period of time (he didn't say how long) but after all his research he was able to find a plan that met the ACA's requirements, with no reduction in coverage, and no cost increase.

gbaji wrote:
Let's not forget that it's called the "Affordable Care Act". The claimed objective was to lower costs. I'd say that they failed quite miserably at that.

Serious question and not meant to be contrary (meaning, I'm not going to get into a senseless debate), but wasn't the "affordable" part supposed to refer to the uninsured who were uninsured because insurance was unaffordable? Of course, I could be just another uninformed American. But at least I'm not an uninsured uninformed American.

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Looking at a scan of the receipt, it looks so small and petty that it's hard to get upset. "20¢ so your employees can have health insurance? Two dimes? Well, okay I guess." Especially sitting under the state sales tax line item which dwarfs the ACA surcharge.

Screenshot
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#44 Feb 28 2014 at 1:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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I want to know why they didn't want bread on their chili cheese dog, and why that prompted the ticket to encourage someone to see the server.
#45 Feb 28 2014 at 1:39 PM Rating: Good
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Wow, party of 1? What a loser.
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#46 Feb 28 2014 at 1:41 PM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
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It sure looks like they ordered for 2 though: 2 drinks, 2 meals. I smell a conspiracy.

Smiley: tinfoilhat
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#47 Feb 28 2014 at 1:54 PM Rating: Good
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Or they're a fatty.
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#48 Feb 28 2014 at 1:55 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
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TILT
Not too much of a fatty since they skipped the bread. Must be an Atkins thing.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#49 Feb 28 2014 at 2:42 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Or they're a fatty.
It's America so probably this.
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YOU'RE AN ELITIST @#%^ AETHIEN, NO WONDER YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS AND PEOPLE HATE YOU.
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#50 Feb 28 2014 at 3:00 PM Rating: Default
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31,876 posts
Jophiel wrote:
I don't think alma is comparing the surcharge to a tip. I think Gbaji made an argument in another thread about how an extra buck on your tab might be the breaking point between being able to afford to go out and eat or not. The response there being that if a buck was going to topple your household finances, you probably shouldn't be trying to toe the brink of fiscal ruin by budgeting out your final discretionary pennies anyway.


Yeah. That's what Alma keeps insisting I was saying. Complete with all sorts of the same "if one dollar breaks you, you shouldn't be eating out at all anyway" logic. The actual point I was making is that every penny of a bill affects the decision to pay it versus spending that money on something else. It's not about being able to afford it, period, but that as the cost rises for the same product (regardless of what it is) the likelihood you'd rather spend that money on something else instead increases. I could afford to eat out every single day if I wanted to. I don't, because I'd rather save the ten thousand or so dollars I'd spend a year doing that on something more useful and productive.

Most people make spending choices well before the point at which they physically can't afford something. Alma doesn't seem to grasp that though. He seems to think that everyone just looks at the money they have and the cost of something and if the former is more than the latter, they buy it. I suppose maybe some really stupid people manage their money that way, but most people don't.


Having said that, this has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. My point here is that it's not about people's purchasing choices at all, but about raising awareness of the cost of Obamacare. I keep saying this, and people keep responding with stuff like "But will this increase or decrease business at the restaurant chain?". I don't know, and honestly don't think that's much of a factor. IMO, the bigger point to the "gimmic" is to get people to realize that Obamcare affects the costs of things other than just the bill they pay for health insurance.
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#51 Feb 28 2014 at 3:00 PM Rating: Excellent
Soulless Internet Tiger
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34,744 posts
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
I want to know why they didn't want bread on their chili cheese dog, and why that prompted the ticket to encourage someone to see the server.
Usually something like that is a case of the guest wanting something not easily explained in the point of sale system and the point of sale requiring a modification be made before being able to note to not make before server can explain. Could be something as simple as cut in half or make it open face with only one side of the bun. In all likelihood, it was something not all that interesting.
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