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We aren't the greatest country anymore...Follow

#1 Feb 12 2014 at 2:09 PM Rating: Good
This video gave me chills. Just thought I'd share it.
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#2 Feb 12 2014 at 2:20 PM Rating: Good
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#3 Feb 12 2014 at 2:27 PM Rating: Decent
The truth is hard to swallow, for a lot of people.

But really its not a new thing, America has been receding compared to other nations for going on 30 years now. It had a little kick of life in the late 90's but 9/11 shat on that and has made the recession of America that much quicker. Terrorism has won so to speak.

The American dream is dead, and you can thank Reagan period for putting it on the death bed.

Like the clip said. Most of the nations in the world have freedom, and many nations lead it every aspect of society. America is #1 in Criminals, #1 in Guns, and #1 in Blind leading the Blank (the last one is my opinion).

Republicans and Democrats it makes no difference, same dudes different color ties. America is dead because the people have given up on it.

But history has shown, all great Empires collapse, and in the immortal words of Robert Frost. "Nothing gold can stay."



Edited, Feb 12th 2014 3:29pm by rdmcandie
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#4 Feb 12 2014 at 3:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't usually watch youtube at work. Smiley: frown

But guessing at the topic from rdm's post... Dumbest idea ever?

The only reason we were ever the greatest at anything is because we managed to be the only major industrial power not to get carpet bombed during the 40s. It's easy to be the best when your competition is sitting on the sidelines injured.

Now that the evil empire has been vanquished to history there's no real threat pushing us to come together as a nation anymore. So we get to spend our time fighting amongst ourselves while the rest of the world catches up and surpasses us.

In lieu of China doing something stupid that inspires some kind of unity over here, I give us 50-100 years before we agree to go our separate ways.

Edited, Feb 12th 2014 1:05pm by someproteinguy
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#5 Feb 12 2014 at 3:59 PM Rating: Good
Obviously we need Putin to just come out into the open with this whole Soviet Union 2.0 thing he has going on.
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#6 Feb 12 2014 at 4:21 PM Rating: Good
IDrownFish of the Seven Seas wrote:
Obviously we need Putin to just come out into the open with this whole Soviet Union 2.0 thing he has going on.

Its kinda to bad that the evil mastermind Putin has managed to make Gays the most talked about topic of 2014. Your media might be bashing him because of the law, but in hindsight he will be remembered as the world leader who brought homophobia to the world stage.

#Putin the Great *** Liberator.

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#7 Feb 12 2014 at 5:21 PM Rating: Good
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This video gave me chills. Just thought I'd share it.

Did it? It made me laugh at how idiotic and ham handed it was. Oh the magical nation that lost it's way but was just divine during the lifetime of boomers, what became of those halcyon days?

The US is the greatest nation on Earth judging by the only metric that matters: Power. Economic power, military power, psychological power. The largest economy, the strongest military, the driver of taste and status for the entire world by a wild margin.

Arron Sorkin and by extension, his thinly veiled avatar here are spoiled children from a spoiled generation. They are shocked, shocked, I tell you, that the consequence of them selling out their ideals in exchange for cash in the 1970s amd 80s led to the stagnation of a progressive movement, and who better to blame than 20 year olds. Children raised by self obsessed ******** to have high self esteem who think everything is fine because they are the children of boomer children who were ignored by the "me generation" their parents became. Guess what, caring a real lot around bong hits at Syracuse didn't meet your obligation for social justice, douchebag. If someone's going to patronize me, let it at least be someone who has DONE something.

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#8 Feb 12 2014 at 6:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
The truth is hard to swallow, for a lot of people.

But really its not a new thing, America has been receding compared to other nations for going on 30 years now. It had a little kick of life in the late 90's but 9/11 shat on that and has made the recession of America that much quicker. Terrorism has won so to speak.

The American dream is dead, and you can thank Reagan period for putting it on the death bed.

Like the clip said. Most of the nations in the world have freedom, and many nations lead it every aspect of society. America is #1 in Criminals, #1 in Guns, and #1 in Blind leading the Blank (the last one is my opinion).

Republicans and Democrats it makes no difference, same dudes different color ties. America is dead because the people have given up on it.

But history has shown, all great Empires collapse, and in the immortal words of Robert Frost. "Nothing gold can stay."

Edited, Feb 12th 2014 3:29pm by rdmcandie


*shrug* People have been saying America is dead when Japan was rising. They have been voicing similar sentiments since the country was created.

Granted, the current set of circumstances is rather unique, but where there is will, there is a way.

I would go on, but I actually have some **** to do. It does happen.

ps. yeah. old clip, still awesome, people need a swift kick in a **** sometimes
ps2. obviously it is kinda working, even warmart realized you can make a buck from 'made in americuh'
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#9 Feb 12 2014 at 6:57 PM Rating: Good
angrymnk wrote:
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
The truth is hard to swallow, for a lot of people.

But really its not a new thing, America has been receding compared to other nations for going on 30 years now. It had a little kick of life in the late 90's but 9/11 shat on that and has made the recession of America that much quicker. Terrorism has won so to speak.

The American dream is dead, and you can thank Reagan period for putting it on the death bed.

Like the clip said. Most of the nations in the world have freedom, and many nations lead it every aspect of society. America is #1 in Criminals, #1 in Guns, and #1 in Blind leading the Blank (the last one is my opinion).

Republicans and Democrats it makes no difference, same dudes different color ties. America is dead because the people have given up on it.

But history has shown, all great Empires collapse, and in the immortal words of Robert Frost. "Nothing gold can stay."

Edited, Feb 12th 2014 3:29pm by rdmcandie


*shrug* People have been saying America is dead when Japan was rising. They have been voicing similar sentiments since the country was created.
Granted, the current set of circumstances is rather unique, but where there is will, there is a way.
I would go on, but I actually have some sh*t to do. It does happen.
ps. yeah. old clip, still awesome, people need a swift kick in a **** sometimes
ps2. obviously it is kinda working, even warmart realized you can make a buck from 'made in americuh'


Well to be fair America was dead then, it was largely dead from the late 70's until the mid to late 90's when the techboom gave it a bit of life. But like I said the failed practices following 9/11 and the past decade have pretty well cemented its place in history. Another dead Empire that had its time in the sun and deteriorated from within under economic and political decay. Just like all the rest.

Edited, Feb 12th 2014 7:59pm by rdmcandie
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#10 Feb 12 2014 at 6:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'd feel worse about America being a "dead empire" except that the vast, vast majority of nations never achieve "live empire" and just wallow in mediocrity for their entire lives.


That and I don't buy the premise but my point still stands
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#11 Feb 12 2014 at 7:02 PM Rating: Decent
Jophiel wrote:
I'd feel worse about America being a "dead empire" except that the vast, vast majority of nations never achieve "live empire" and just wallow in mediocrity for their entire lives.


That and I don't buy the premise but my point still stands


Im just happy you guys let us come along for the ride.
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#12 Feb 12 2014 at 7:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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When the US economy implodes, you can sell all your gold medals to China for precious wheat!
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#13 Feb 12 2014 at 7:09 PM Rating: Good
Jophiel wrote:
When the US economy implodes, you can sell all your gold medals to China for precious wheat!


As long as its not Crack Wheat. We still have Rob Ford he might get the wrong idea.
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#15 Feb 12 2014 at 7:14 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I'd feel worse about America being a "dead empire" except that the vast, vast majority of nations never achieve "live empire" and just wallow in mediocrity for their entire lives.


That and I don't buy the premise but my point still stands
I'm just glad we had our empire when we had the chance. It would be impossible for us now.
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#16 Feb 12 2014 at 7:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
The truth is hard to swallow, for a lot of people.

But really its not a new thing, America has been receding compared to other nations for going on 30 years now. It had a little kick of life in the late 90's but 9/11 shat on that and has made the recession of America that much quicker. Terrorism has won so to speak.

The American dream is dead, and you can thank Reagan period for putting it on the death bed.

Like the clip said. Most of the nations in the world have freedom, and many nations lead it every aspect of society. America is #1 in Criminals, #1 in Guns, and #1 in Blind leading the Blank (the last one is my opinion).

Republicans and Democrats it makes no difference, same dudes different color ties. America is dead because the people have given up on it.

But history has shown, all great Empires collapse, and in the immortal words of Robert Frost. "Nothing gold can stay."

Edited, Feb 12th 2014 3:29pm by rdmcandie


*shrug* People have been saying America is dead when Japan was rising. They have been voicing similar sentiments since the country was created.
Granted, the current set of circumstances is rather unique, but where there is will, there is a way.
I would go on, but I actually have some sh*t to do. It does happen.
ps. yeah. old clip, still awesome, people need a swift kick in a **** sometimes
ps2. obviously it is kinda working, even warmart realized you can make a buck from 'made in americuh'


Well to be fair America was dead then, it was largely dead from the late 70's until the mid to late 90's when the techboom gave it a bit of life. But like I said the failed practices following 9/11 and the past decade have pretty well cemented its place in history. Another dead Empire that had its time in the sun and deteriorated from within under economic and political decay. Just like all the rest.

Edited, Feb 12th 2014 7:59pm by rdmcandie


Any moment now you will compare US to Rome, liken Obama to Gracchi brothers, and the ascension of royal family Clinton to the White Throne to the rule of Caligula.

My point is, it is good to know history. It is also good to gain some insights from studying it so that, and here is the important part, if the bad things have to happen, they happen to other people.

I expect more from you ( kinda ).


Edited, Feb 12th 2014 9:01pm by angrymnk
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#17 Feb 12 2014 at 7:58 PM Rating: Good
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Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
The truth is hard to swallow, for a lot of people.

But really its not a new thing, America has been receding compared to other nations for going on 30 years now. It had a little kick of life in the late 90's but 9/11 shat on that and has made the recession of America that much quicker. Terrorism has won so to speak.

The American dream is dead, and you can thank Reagan period for putting it on the death bed.

Like the clip said. Most of the nations in the world have freedom, and many nations lead it every aspect of society. America is #1 in Criminals, #1 in Guns, and #1 in Blind leading the Blank (the last one is my opinion).

Republicans and Democrats it makes no difference, same dudes different color ties. America is dead because the people have given up on it.

But history has shown, all great Empires collapse, and in the immortal words of Robert Frost. "Nothing gold can stay."

Edited, Feb 12th 2014 3:29pm by rdmcandie


*shrug* People have been saying America is dead when Japan was rising. They have been voicing similar sentiments since the country was created.
Granted, the current set of circumstances is rather unique, but where there is will, there is a way.
I would go on, but I actually have some sh*t to do. It does happen.
ps. yeah. old clip, still awesome, people need a swift kick in a **** sometimes
ps2. obviously it is kinda working, even warmart realized you can make a buck from 'made in americuh'


Well to be fair America was dead then, it was largely dead from the late 70's until the mid to late 90's when the techboom gave it a bit of life. But like I said the failed practices following 9/11 and the past decade have pretty well cemented its place in history. Another dead Empire that had its time in the sun and deteriorated from within under economic and political decay. Just like all the rest.

Edited, Feb 12th 2014 7:59pm by rdmcandie


Dead is having the highest standard of living in the developed world?
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#18 Feb 12 2014 at 8:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Timelordwho wrote:
Dead is having the highest standard of living in the developed world?
It won't last, we can't maintain a high standard of living and retire the baby boomers at the same time.
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#19 Feb 12 2014 at 8:50 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
Dead is having the highest standard of living in the developed world?
It won't last, we can't maintain a high standard of living and retire the baby boomers at the same time.


Sure we can! Just need to adopt the Soylent retirement plan.
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#20 Feb 12 2014 at 10:23 PM Rating: Excellent
angrymnk wrote:
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
The truth is hard to swallow, for a lot of people.

But really its not a new thing, America has been receding compared to other nations for going on 30 years now. It had a little kick of life in the late 90's but 9/11 shat on that and has made the recession of America that much quicker. Terrorism has won so to speak.

The American dream is dead, and you can thank Reagan period for putting it on the death bed.

Like the clip said. Most of the nations in the world have freedom, and many nations lead it every aspect of society. America is #1 in Criminals, #1 in Guns, and #1 in Blind leading the Blank (the last one is my opinion).

Republicans and Democrats it makes no difference, same dudes different color ties. America is dead because the people have given up on it.

But history has shown, all great Empires collapse, and in the immortal words of Robert Frost. "Nothing gold can stay."

Edited, Feb 12th 2014 3:29pm by rdmcandie


*shrug* People have been saying America is dead when Japan was rising. They have been voicing similar sentiments since the country was created.
Granted, the current set of circumstances is rather unique, but where there is will, there is a way.
I would go on, but I actually have some sh*t to do. It does happen.
ps. yeah. old clip, still awesome, people need a swift kick in a **** sometimes
ps2. obviously it is kinda working, even warmart realized you can make a buck from 'made in americuh'


Well to be fair America was dead then, it was largely dead from the late 70's until the mid to late 90's when the techboom gave it a bit of life. But like I said the failed practices following 9/11 and the past decade have pretty well cemented its place in history. Another dead Empire that had its time in the sun and deteriorated from within under economic and political decay. Just like all the rest.

Edited, Feb 12th 2014 7:59pm by rdmcandie


Any moment now you will compare US to Rome, liken Obama to Gracchi brothers, and the ascension of royal family Clinton to the White Throne to the rule of Caligula.

My point is, it is good to know history. It is also good to gain some insights from studying it so that, and here is the important part, if the bad things have to happen, they happen to other people.

I expect more from you ( kinda ).


Edited, Feb 12th 2014 9:01pm by angrymnk


Actually the US is more like the Ottomon Turks Circa 1200-1400. In the sense they weren't really expansionist, but they were rich as @#%^, and they were the central trade hub of the known world. Being the center point of the Silk Road had its advantages. But once the money was gone (mostly pillaged by Europeans who kinda got the shaft for like 500 years) so was the Empire. Sure the made some remote land grabs, propped up some nearby states, and spread their cultural influence throughout the mediteranian. But they were the first real Economic Empire, not an Empire of Conquest, it didn't help that Europe had decided to begin their era of colonization. The Turks kinda fell apart when nations like Spain France and England cranked up their colonization of Africa and the New World.

But hey thats one cool thing about the USA. Despite spending more money on a military than the entire history of the human race combined. They are not conquerors. They just like holding onto money...now no one wants to give them money...and like the Ottomon Turks...its hard to keep an Empire if you don't have the dollar bills to do the job.

History is fun isn't it.

In case you don't know what any of that means. It means America is no longer an Empire, but it is also not going anywhere. Its just not going to be as important moving forward, and it is not going to hold the same influence it once had.





Edited, Feb 12th 2014 11:26pm by rdmcandie
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#21 Feb 12 2014 at 10:36 PM Rating: Decent
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But hey thats one cool think about the USA. Despite spending more money on a military than the entire history of the human race combined. They are not conquerors. They just like holding onto money...now no one wants to give them money...and like the Ottomon Turks...its hard to keep an Empire if you don't have the dollar bills to do the job.

Except the part where people do, desperately, still want to give the US money, the massive store of natural resources, and the ability to *literally destroy the human race* if things go really poorly, it's just like that.

It's idiotic to assume that other nations growth implies the US in decline. It's not, particularly. Wall Street still makes City of London look like a shopping mall money changing booth, etc. China has a growing economy, but not really an internal consumer base significant enough to surpass the US anytime soon. The problem with using US demand as the fuel to grow to a US sized economy is that it's essentially an asymptotic proposition. The closer China gets to "overtaking" the US in terms of raw GDP, the larger it's consumer market becomes, leading to growth of US GDP, etc.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#22 Feb 12 2014 at 10:45 PM Rating: Decent
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665 posts
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
The truth is hard to swallow, for a lot of people.

But really its not a new thing, America has been receding compared to other nations for going on 30 years now. It had a little kick of life in the late 90's but 9/11 shat on that and has made the recession of America that much quicker. Terrorism has won so to speak.

The American dream is dead, and you can thank Reagan period for putting it on the death bed.

Like the clip said. Most of the nations in the world have freedom, and many nations lead it every aspect of society. America is #1 in Criminals, #1 in Guns, and #1 in Blind leading the Blank (the last one is my opinion).

Republicans and Democrats it makes no difference, same dudes different color ties. America is dead because the people have given up on it.

But history has shown, all great Empires collapse, and in the immortal words of Robert Frost. "Nothing gold can stay."

Edited, Feb 12th 2014 3:29pm by rdmcandie


*shrug* People have been saying America is dead when Japan was rising. They have been voicing similar sentiments since the country was created.
Granted, the current set of circumstances is rather unique, but where there is will, there is a way.
I would go on, but I actually have some sh*t to do. It does happen.
ps. yeah. old clip, still awesome, people need a swift kick in a **** sometimes
ps2. obviously it is kinda working, even warmart realized you can make a buck from 'made in americuh'


Well to be fair America was dead then, it was largely dead from the late 70's until the mid to late 90's when the techboom gave it a bit of life. But like I said the failed practices following 9/11 and the past decade have pretty well cemented its place in history. Another dead Empire that had its time in the sun and deteriorated from within under economic and political decay. Just like all the rest.

Edited, Feb 12th 2014 7:59pm by rdmcandie


Any moment now you will compare US to Rome, liken Obama to Gracchi brothers, and the ascension of royal family Clinton to the White Throne to the rule of Caligula.

My point is, it is good to know history. It is also good to gain some insights from studying it so that, and here is the important part, if the bad things have to happen, they happen to other people.

I expect more from you ( kinda ).


Edited, Feb 12th 2014 9:01pm by angrymnk


Actually the US is more like the Ottomon Turks Circa 1200-1400. In the sense they weren't really expansionist, but they were rich as @#%^, and they were the central trade hub of the known world. Being the center point of the Silk Road had its advantages. But once the money was gone (mostly pillaged by Europeans who kinda got the shaft for like 500 years) so was the Empire. Sure the made some remote land grabs, propped up some nearby states, and spread their cultural influence throughout the mediteranian. But they were the first real Economic Empire, not an Empire of Conquest, it didn't help that Europe had decided to begin their era of colonization. The Turks kinda fell apart when nations like Spain France and England cranked up their colonization of Africa and the New World.

But hey thats one cool thing about the USA. Despite spending more money on a military than the entire history of the human race combined. They are not conquerors. They just like holding onto money...now no one wants to give them money...and like the Ottomon Turks...its hard to keep an Empire if you don't have the dollar bills to do the job.

History is fun isn't it.

In case you don't know what any of that means. It means America is no longer an Empire, but it is also not going anywhere. Its just not going to be as important moving forward, and it is not going to hold the same influence it once had.

Edited, Feb 12th 2014 11:26pm by rdmcandie


It never ceases to amaze how people can carry all that knowledge and yet manage to draw wrong conclusions. But then you were amusingly wrong about China and Iran so why you would want to break your prediction streak with US ( disclaimer -- we won't know for sure until after about 20 years so for now we will need to agree to disagree ). And in empire building, 20 years is a lot of time in the later stages.

As for first economic empire, Carthage is often described as Carthage Inc by history professors and in their day they certainly were an empire. They were an economic empire of their days.They did have an army; they just didn't like to use it much. Mercenaries cost money you see.

I am not sure whether you noticed, but there is a reason US spends like a drunk sailor on shore leave on guns. Precisely because at one point you will want other nations to do what you will without the promise of money. There will be a promise of a threat.

In case you don't know what any of it means: US may not be seen as an empire, but to just write it off is a mistake. If you do not think that India, China, or UE can crumble, you live in a greater fantasy than many USsians.
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#23 Feb 12 2014 at 11:22 PM Rating: Good
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I am not sure whether you noticed, but there is a reason US spends like a drunk sailor on shore leave on guns. Precisely because at one point you will want other nations to do what you will without the promise of money. There will be a promise of a threat. .


Actually, its mostly cause the US builds the best guns in the largest quantities. ****, sometimes the US government doesn't even use the guns they buy, they just buy them to keep the companies producing them going strong. The US government has a huge interest in keeping the arms industry strong (big % of GDP & all that). Its win-win when your government essentially creates its own economy & profits off of it.
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#24 Feb 13 2014 at 8:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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#25 Feb 13 2014 at 8:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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#26 Feb 13 2014 at 10:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:
It's idiotic to assume that other nations growth implies the US in decline. It's not, particularly.
*shrugs* The title of the thread was "We aren't the greatest country anymore...". We're still growing every year of course, we're just taking up less space on the pie chart. I'm sure America, or whatever is left of it in 100 years, will still be an economic power house on the world stage. Of course, I mean the Democratic Republic of California will still be productive at least. I expect less from Jesusland of the Holy Mississippi.

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I prefer an AK over an AR.
I think the feeling is pretty universal. No one likes Arkansas.
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#27 Feb 13 2014 at 11:53 AM Rating: Decent
angrymnk wrote:

It never ceases to amaze how people can carry all that knowledge and yet manage to draw wrong conclusions. But then you were amusingly wrong about China and Iran so why you would want to break your prediction streak with US ( disclaimer -- we won't know for sure until after about 20 years so for now we will need to agree to disagree ). And in empire building, 20 years is a lot of time in the later stages.


What was I wrong about?
China at the time of my post was the fastest growing economy, they have pulled over 50% of their population out of poverty, their average income is higher than the US, they are buying up Gold from around the world, they plan to have a gold back currency, they desire Iranian and Russian Oil, they are a member of BRICS. Everything I said about China is fact not prediction. I don't make predictions I make statements based on actual events.

Iran at the time of my post was a democracy, every position is elected even the Ayatollah is voted into power. Iran also has twice in the past attempted to make nuke free middle east pacts, the US turned Iran into a dictatorship, the Iranian people turned it back into a democracy, the US has sanctioned Iran for 30 years with no result, Iran is largely a free nation just like everywhere else, they don't actually hate Israel, (no more than the US hates NK at any rate). Again everything I stated is based on actual facts, not predicting or theorizing, but actual researched information.

But hey call me amusingly wrong about predictions...its a good thing I don't often predict.

Quote:
As for first economic empire, Carthage is often described as Carthage Inc by history professors and in their day they certainly were an empire. They were an economic empire of their days.They did have an army; they just didn't like to use it much. Mercenaries cost money you see.


OMG an exception! To be fair however Carthage was a city state their "Empire" consisted of a load of other allies and treaties Across North Africa and into Spain. It wasn't the Empire of Carthage. It was the City of Carthage and Allies. But you are correct Carthage used their economic power to build a sizeable army, and make some powerful friends, and powerful enemies. But Carthage itself was never really an Empire, at least not in the way Ottomons were. Keeping with comparisons. Calling Carthage and Empire is like Calling Texas an Empire, just because its part of the US.

Quote:

I am not sure whether you noticed, but there is a reason US spends like a drunk sailor on shore leave on guns. Precisely because at one point you will want other nations to do what you will without the promise of money. There will be a promise of a threat. In case you don't know what any of it means: US may not be seen as an empire, but to just write it off is a mistake. If you do not think that India, China, or UE can crumble, you live in a greater fantasy than many USsians.


Not sure if you have been following the trends but the threat of military has been redundant since the 70's, coincidentally around the same time the US started to collapse as the top dog in the world. Build all the guns you want, and make all the idle threats you want. The threat of War is a relic of the past. The only thing that matters now is economic influence. Something that China has spent 15 years buying from the US. Weapons and Armies are passe and serve no real purpose in the world other than reducing unemployment numbers.

The US isn't an Empire, and I didn't write it off, it will always hold influence, Britain isn't an Empire but it certainly holds sway, so does France, and Germany and Japan. Just because your a "dead" country doesn't mean you do not provide influence still. You kids these days take some words way to literal, sometimes I forget to dumb things down for people. Also I didn't say China or India won't crumble, I also didn't say they would become Empires. Empires are so passe thats why the US is dead...there is a possibility that the US will be the last of the great Empires, simply because the world and society has grown beyond that.



I bet you want to know why the US is no longer the big fish, and why the rest of the world is catching up....Its called Socialism. I don't care if you think it is bad, but the US/Canada and Europe have been spending piles and piles of money developing nations all over the world...now those nations are reaching a point where they are doing the same. China was largely built off the back of the British Laborer, The Middle East on the back of the American, South America is a mix, and Africa was left behind. Now Africa is being cultivated by China. In a sense...Capitalism is paying for Global Socialism. Which is Good, because eventually when we stop being mongs everything will be equal and everyone will have the same fair shake all over the world, because it is the only possible future for our species...other than extinction. In 100 more years the folks will probably laugh at us for having individual flags, and borders, probably be considered tribal and savage too. (That is a prediction so you can laugh at it if you want.)



Edited, Feb 13th 2014 1:01pm by rdmcandie
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#28 Feb 13 2014 at 12:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
they are buying up Gold from around the world, they plan to have a gold back currency
What, how, are is... but... I... Smiley: glare

Just humoring the fantasy for a moment, but why the **** would anyone do that?
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#29 Feb 13 2014 at 12:20 PM Rating: Decent
someproteinguy wrote:
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
they are buying up Gold from around the world, they plan to have a gold back currency
What, how, are is... but... I... Smiley: glare

Just humoring the fantasy for a moment, but why the **** would anyone do that?


Lots of reasons. Mostly because it makes your currency stronger over time and without it, it makes your currency weaker over time, there are a pile of other reasons too such as BRICS desiring the Chinese DollaBill be the standard currency, and major oil producers desiring to swap to Gold from USD (hence why there were all those wars and conflicts over the past decade.)

Ive already discussed it in detail though so you can just go find the thread if you are really interested. Or google it.

Edited, Feb 13th 2014 1:21pm by rdmcandie
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#30 Feb 13 2014 at 12:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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When I google it I find stuff like this: Linky

and wonder why anyone would want all that unpredictability that went on prior to the mid 1930s.

Edit: Not saying I can't find any advantages to it, just it seems like the short-term instability would trump those benefits, entirely on it's own. Especially in an economy that hasn't seen those kind of wild inflation swings in over 80 years.

Edited, Feb 13th 2014 11:39am by someproteinguy
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#31 Feb 13 2014 at 1:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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#32 Feb 13 2014 at 2:37 PM Rating: Decent
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You know who makes AKs? COMMIES!

Fuckin' commie.
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#33 Feb 13 2014 at 8:52 PM Rating: Decent
someproteinguy wrote:
When I google it I find stuff like this: Linky

and wonder why anyone would want all that unpredictability that went on prior to the mid 1930s.

Edit: Not saying I can't find any advantages to it, just it seems like the short-term instability would trump those benefits, entirely on it's own. Especially in an economy that hasn't seen those kind of wild inflation swings in over 80 years.

Edited, Feb 13th 2014 11:39am by someproteinguy


Mostly because Inflation is inherently poor for an economy and leads to massive income disparity over time on a national level and a weaker currency value overall internationally.

Edited, Feb 13th 2014 9:53pm by rdmcandie
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#34 Feb 13 2014 at 9:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
When I google it I find stuff like this: Linky

and wonder why anyone would want all that unpredictability that went on prior to the mid 1930s.

Edit: Not saying I can't find any advantages to it, just it seems like the short-term instability would trump those benefits, entirely on it's own. Especially in an economy that hasn't seen those kind of wild inflation swings in over 80 years.

Edited, Feb 13th 2014 11:39am by someproteinguy


Mostly because Inflation is inherently poor for an economy and leads to massive income disparity over time on a national level and a weaker currency value overall internationally.

Edited, Feb 13th 2014 9:53pm by rdmcandie
So instead we base our economy on a commodity that any other country in the world can easily manipulate?

I mean you get a couple of countries that decide to stick it to us and grab up some gold, or shut down a mine or two and all of a sudden that $40,000 in student loan debt really does become insurmountable. I mean we're suddenly subject to the whims of the South African political system. Miners there go on strike, people here go bankrupt. Someone discovers a rich vein somewhere else, and we get ugly inflation that we can't mitigate so easily.

Edited, Feb 13th 2014 7:41pm by someproteinguy
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#35 Feb 13 2014 at 9:51 PM Rating: Default
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Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
angrymnk wrote:

It never ceases to amaze how people can carry all that knowledge and yet manage to draw wrong conclusions. But then you were amusingly wrong about China and Iran so why you would want to break your prediction streak with US ( disclaimer -- we won't know for sure until after about 20 years so for now we will need to agree to disagree ). And in empire building, 20 years is a lot of time in the later stages.


What was I wrong about?
China at the time of my post was the fastest growing economy, they have pulled over 50% of their population out of poverty, their average income is higher than the US, they are buying up Gold from around the world, they plan to have a gold back currency, they desire Iranian and Russian Oil, they are a member of BRICS. Everything I said about China is fact not prediction. I don't make predictions I make statements based on actual events.

Iran at the time of my post was a democracy, every position is elected even the Ayatollah is voted into power. Iran also has twice in the past attempted to make nuke free middle east pacts, the US turned Iran into a dictatorship, the Iranian people turned it back into a democracy, the US has sanctioned Iran for 30 years with no result, Iran is largely a free nation just like everywhere else, they don't actually hate Israel, (no more than the US hates NK at any rate). Again everything I stated is based on actual facts, not predicting or theorizing, but actual researched information.

But hey call me amusingly wrong about predictions...its a good thing I don't often predict.

Quote:
As for first economic empire, Carthage is often described as Carthage Inc by history professors and in their day they certainly were an empire. They were an economic empire of their days.They did have an army; they just didn't like to use it much. Mercenaries cost money you see.


OMG an exception! To be fair however Carthage was a city state their "Empire" consisted of a load of other allies and treaties Across North Africa and into Spain. It wasn't the Empire of Carthage. It was the City of Carthage and Allies. But you are correct Carthage used their economic power to build a sizeable army, and make some powerful friends, and powerful enemies. But Carthage itself was never really an Empire, at least not in the way Ottomons were. Keeping with comparisons. Calling Carthage and Empire is like Calling Texas an Empire, just because its part of the US.

Quote:

I am not sure whether you noticed, but there is a reason US spends like a drunk sailor on shore leave on guns. Precisely because at one point you will want other nations to do what you will without the promise of money. There will be a promise of a threat. In case you don't know what any of it means: US may not be seen as an empire, but to just write it off is a mistake. If you do not think that India, China, or UE can crumble, you live in a greater fantasy than many USsians.


Not sure if you have been following the trends but the threat of military has been redundant since the 70's, coincidentally around the same time the US started to collapse as the top dog in the world. Build all the guns you want, and make all the idle threats you want. The threat of War is a relic of the past. The only thing that matters now is economic influence. Something that China has spent 15 years buying from the US. Weapons and Armies are passe and serve no real purpose in the world other than reducing unemployment numbers.

The US isn't an Empire, and I didn't write it off, it will always hold influence, Britain isn't an Empire but it certainly holds sway, so does France, and Germany and Japan. Just because your a "dead" country doesn't mean you do not provide influence still. You kids these days take some words way to literal, sometimes I forget to dumb things down for people. Also I didn't say China or India won't crumble, I also didn't say they would become Empires. Empires are so passe thats why the US is dead...there is a possibility that the US will be the last of the great Empires, simply because the world and society has grown beyond that.



I bet you want to know why the US is no longer the big fish, and why the rest of the world is catching up....Its called Socialism. I don't care if you think it is bad, but the US/Canada and Europe have been spending piles and piles of money developing nations all over the world...now those nations are reaching a point where they are doing the same. China was largely built off the back of the British Laborer, The Middle East on the back of the American, South America is a mix, and Africa was left behind. Now Africa is being cultivated by China. In a sense...Capitalism is paying for Global Socialism. Which is Good, because eventually when we stop being mongs everything will be equal and everyone will have the same fair shake all over the world, because it is the only possible future for our species...other than extinction. In 100 more years the folks will probably laugh at us for having individual flags, and borders, probably be considered tribal and savage too. (That is a prediction so you can laugh at it if you want.)



Edited, Feb 13th 2014 1:01pm by rdmcandie


Oh sweet merciful Altana, where to begin?

First of all, and you may not have known this, but exception, contrary to popular belief, does not prove the rule; it tests it. Therefore, saying "OMG exception" does not invalidate the exception provided as an argument. This paragraph was for your benefit, I am honestly not sure if you were aware of this.

Second, I guess we will need to define empire otherwise we will keep throwing any examples that can meet the most broad criteria. My point was that Carthage was an empire of its day. Whatever follows the eventual human plague spread across the galaxy will, probably, be an empire too. And that empire will will laugh at the tiny Earth empires of 21st century. They will think something along the lines of: "Well, duh, US was as much an empire as much as Colony 777 is."

Quote:
Not sure if you have been following the trends but the threat of military has been redundant since the 70's, coincidentally around the same time the US started to collapse as the top dog in the world. Build all the guns you want, and make all the idle threats you want. The threat of War is a relic of the past. The only thing that matters now is economic influence. Something that China has spent 15 years buying from the US. Weapons and Armies are passe and serve no real purpose in the world other than reducing unemployment numbers.


This is the part that amuses me the most.

I do get that the westerners have not seen war and violence in quite a while, I do get that some of them have gotten rather fat, complacent and stupid. I truly do.

But calling it a relic of the past? Just wow.. I really hope you will never have to learn esperanto of violence. It is a universal language for a reason.

You had a better idea about currencies than about war.
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#36 Feb 13 2014 at 10:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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angrymnk wrote:
Oh sweet merciful Altana, where to begin?
Lesson 1: You don't really have to quote the entire post.
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#37 Feb 14 2014 at 7:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Mostly because Inflation is inherently poor for an economy and leads to massive income disparity over time on a national level and a weaker currency value overall internationally.

Nope, not how that works. At all. Also: China not buying gold, zero chance the RMB becomes a gold backed currency, ever. ZERO. To do so would *literally* make it's very existence meaningless. Do you know what nation states use when they want to buy things with gold? @#%^ing gold. Of course none actually do that much these days, because it's an idiotic arbitrary standard to value things via the weight of a yellow metal. You know what they use to buy things? The dollar. Because it's the world's reserve currency. How did that happen? Because using gold or other actual commodities is laughably inefficient and prone wild volatility.

That's why Bretton Woods happened, that's why currently, in the entire world there are ZERO gold backed currencies. Even as a novelty for tiny nation states to attract investors to their currency and assets is sucks.

HYPER inflation is bad. Deflation of any kind is usually bad. Moderate inflation is an engine of economic growth. Without moderate inflation the entire world credit system collapses.

Edited, Feb 14th 2014 8:42am by Smasharoo
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#38 Feb 14 2014 at 9:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Can we finally open up Fort Knox as a theme park then?
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#39 Feb 14 2014 at 10:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Only if you want something that's destined to become a redneck Disneyland.
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#40 Feb 14 2014 at 10:53 AM Rating: Good
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Sounds like a plan, I can see the Nascar style karting, monster truck ride and a Dukes Of Hazard themed double/racing rollercoaster.
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#41 Feb 14 2014 at 10:55 AM Rating: Decent
someproteinguy wrote:
Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
When I google it I find stuff like this: Linky

and wonder why anyone would want all that unpredictability that went on prior to the mid 1930s.

Edit: Not saying I can't find any advantages to it, just it seems like the short-term instability would trump those benefits, entirely on it's own. Especially in an economy that hasn't seen those kind of wild inflation swings in over 80 years.

Edited, Feb 13th 2014 11:39am by someproteinguy


Mostly because Inflation is inherently poor for an economy and leads to massive income disparity over time on a national level and a weaker currency value overall internationally.

Edited, Feb 13th 2014 9:53pm by rdmcandie
So instead we base our economy on a commodity that any other country in the world can easily manipulate?

I mean you get a couple of countries that decide to stick it to us and grab up some gold, or shut down a mine or two and all of a sudden that $40,000 in student loan debt really does become insurmountable. I mean we're suddenly subject to the whims of the South African political system. Miners there go on strike, people here go bankrupt. Someone discovers a rich vein somewhere else, and we get ugly inflation that we can't mitigate so easily.

Edited, Feb 13th 2014 7:41pm by someproteinguy


It brings stability to China's currency which is probably a good thing considering how fast it has grown, and how undervalue it is kept. If they take the cap off they would have rampant inflation which would undo quite a lot of the work they have done in the last 10 years or so. Especially when it comes to the fact they have pulled so many from poverty. If China wants to have the prime trading currency, then it will need to have an open market currency not one that is being capped. So China is buying up as much gold as it can, so it can have an open market currency, because if it does't have anything backing it then it is going to look like Japan. Sure they might have a great internal economy but Japanese Yen is worthless anywhere else in the world.

Secondly its not really that easy for other countries to manipulate your currency. If you own enough gold to be a dominant currency. Then in order to buy gold those countries must purchase you gold. With their money. So their money becomes a bit stronger...but you have that value added to your reserve because you have their currency in exchange. Then you buy gold back from them, using your currency...or their currency you still hold in reserve. Ideally you dump their currency first, so you don't need to generate more of your own, which is why and how inflation is maintained.

You mentioned the spikes previously during in the early 1900's and around the 1930's. This was because the US was making tons of cash to buy European Gold during WWI and WWII. The US became the dominant currency as a result of this simply because they just bought everyones Gold while they fought each other....then in the 50's they decided to abandon Gold all together. This was done because no other countries in the world were really able to invest in America, so America made a currency thats only true value was people accepting that the number written on it was indeed worth the number written on it.
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#42 Feb 14 2014 at 11:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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A Fort Knox theme park would absolutely have to be a waterpark, just for the golden shower references.
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#43 Feb 14 2014 at 11:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Sounds like a plan, I can see the Nascar style karting, monster truck ride and a Dukes Of Hazard themed double/racing rollercoaster.
Maybe some American flag vendors and freedom fries?

Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
If you own enough gold to be a dominant currency. Then in order to buy gold those countries must purchase you gold. With their money. So their money becomes a bit stronger...but you have that value added to your reserve because you have their currency in exchange. Then you buy gold back from them, using your currency...or their currency you still hold in reserve. Ideally you dump their currency first, so you don't need to generate more of your own, which is why and how inflation is maintained.
Firstly, we don't. Secondly they don't have to buy anything. It's in the ground, you just dig in up.

Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
You mentioned the spikes previously during in the early 1900's and around the 1930's.
More like all the spikes previously on the graph where the currency of our region was based on gold, or gold and silver, etc.


Edited, Feb 14th 2014 9:11am by someproteinguy
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#44 Feb 14 2014 at 11:59 AM Rating: Decent
someproteinguy wrote:

Stalker rdmcandie wrote:
If you own enough gold to be a dominant currency. Then in order to buy gold those countries must purchase you gold. With their money. So their money becomes a bit stronger...but you have that value added to your reserve because you have their currency in exchange. Then you buy gold back from them, using your currency...or their currency you still hold in reserve. Ideally you dump their currency first, so you don't need to generate more of your own, which is why and how inflation is maintained.
Firstly, we don't. Secondly they don't have to buy anything. It's in the ground, you just dig in up.


There is an estimated 117K Tonnes above ground, and an estimated 56K still in the ground (although there is probably more we just havent found it yet. Also approx 12% of Gold is actually removed from "circulation" each year as for the first time in the history of our species we are actively consuming gold, instead of recycling it. It is easier and cheaper to just buy gold other countries have, but yes you can dig it out of the ground too.
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#45 Feb 14 2014 at 12:20 PM Rating: Good
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It brings stability to China's currency

Nope. It would do the opposite. See if you can't riddle out why.
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#46 Feb 14 2014 at 1:49 PM Rating: Default
Smasharoo wrote:
It brings stability to China's currency

Nope. It would do the opposite. See if you can't riddle out why.

You are wrong, but I think you know why.
Going full ****** today eh Smash...its not healthy to do that bud.



Edited, Feb 14th 2014 2:54pm by rdmcandie
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#47 Feb 14 2014 at 7:06 PM Rating: Default
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First off. We can't turn Fort Knox into a theme park because that's where we're keeping the aliens from Roswell, right?

Smasharoo wrote:
It brings stability to China's currency

Nope. It would do the opposite. See if you can't riddle out why.


Oh oh oh!! Pick me. waves hands around. Me! Me... I know the answer!

Seriously though, one of the rare occasions Smash and I will agree on something, so maybe pay attention. China currently has one of the most manipulated currencies in the world. It does this deliberately in order to create artificial trade advantages for itself (and possibly to conceal just how poorly it's "working class" is really doing relative to the rest of the world). The entire reason people point to China and proclaim it as the new fast growing economy is because of this manipulation. If they were to foolishly tie themselves to a physical commodity like gold? The whole house of cards would collapse (even more so than the negative effects of any other nation foolishly adopting a gold standard).


China's entire economic approach is to take advantage of the inherently manipulation-friendly aspects of a floating currency in a semi-command economy to effectively buy itself into a real thriving economy. As Smash kinda touched on earlier, all modern economies are based on a constant controlled inflation. This allows you flexibility with your currency and economic growth to weather economic events which would otherwise sink you. Also, as with China, it allows you to "fake it until you make it". Going to a gold standard would strand China at the bottom of a very steep economic hole.

Edited, Feb 14th 2014 5:07pm by gbaji
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#48 Feb 14 2014 at 8:48 PM Rating: Default
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gbaji wrote:
First off. We can't turn Fort Knox into a theme park because that's where we're keeping the aliens from Roswell, right?

Smasharoo wrote:
It brings stability to China's currency

Nope. It would do the opposite. See if you can't riddle out why.


Oh oh oh!! Pick me. waves hands around. Me! Me... I know the answer!

Seriously though, one of the rare occasions Smash and I will agree on something, so maybe pay attention. China currently has one of the most manipulated currencies in the world. It does this deliberately in order to create artificial trade advantages for itself (and possibly to conceal just how poorly it's "working class" is really doing relative to the rest of the world). The entire reason people point to China and proclaim it as the new fast growing economy is because of this manipulation. If they were to foolishly tie themselves to a physical commodity like gold? The whole house of cards would collapse (even more so than the negative effects of any other nation foolishly adopting a gold standard).


China's entire economic approach is to take advantage of the inherently manipulation-friendly aspects of a floating currency in a semi-command economy to effectively buy itself into a real thriving economy. As Smash kinda touched on earlier, all modern economies are based on a constant controlled inflation. This allows you flexibility with your currency and economic growth to weather economic events which would otherwise sink you. Also, as with China, it allows you to "fake it until you make it". Going to a gold standard would strand China at the bottom of a very steep economic hole.

Edited, Feb 14th 2014 5:07pm by gbaji


Wow.. it must be full moon. We actually share a similar position( currency-wise).
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#49 Feb 14 2014 at 9:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Oh, I'm sure there are plenty of differences (just as there's a veritable gulf between me and Smash on economic issues in general). But on the basic question of why a gold standard is bad (and in China's case really really bad) it's going to be pretty common among pretty much anyone who hasn't drunk the "gold standard is best!" punch.
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#50 Feb 14 2014 at 9:59 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
Oh, I'm sure there are plenty of differences (just as there's a veritable gulf between me and Smash on economic issues in general). But on the basic question of why a gold standard is bad (and in China's case really really bad) it's going to be pretty common among pretty much anyone who hasn't drunk the "gold standard is best!" punch.


True. I just keep running into people who seem to believe gold standard is the best thing ever. That and everything was better back then.

Let me change the subject a little.

Did anyone notice that banks started to offer home purchase programs like "streamline" where you basically don't have to prove income? Is it a case of how fast we forget?
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#51 Feb 15 2014 at 12:20 AM Rating: Good
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angrymnk wrote:
gbaji wrote:
First off. We can't turn Fort Knox into a theme park because that's where we're keeping the aliens from Roswell, right?

Smasharoo wrote:
It brings stability to China's currency

Nope. It would do the opposite. See if you can't riddle out why.


Oh oh oh!! Pick me. waves hands around. Me! Me... I know the answer!

Seriously though, one of the rare occasions Smash and I will agree on something, so maybe pay attention. China currently has one of the most manipulated currencies in the world. It does this deliberately in order to create artificial trade advantages for itself (and possibly to conceal just how poorly it's "working class" is really doing relative to the rest of the world). The entire reason people point to China and proclaim it as the new fast growing economy is because of this manipulation. If they were to foolishly tie themselves to a physical commodity like gold? The whole house of cards would collapse (even more so than the negative effects of any other nation foolishly adopting a gold standard).


China's entire economic approach is to take advantage of the inherently manipulation-friendly aspects of a floating currency in a semi-command economy to effectively buy itself into a real thriving economy. As Smash kinda touched on earlier, all modern economies are based on a constant controlled inflation. This allows you flexibility with your currency and economic growth to weather economic events which would otherwise sink you. Also, as with China, it allows you to "fake it until you make it". Going to a gold standard would strand China at the bottom of a very steep economic hole.

Edited, Feb 14th 2014 5:07pm by gbaji


Wow.. it must be full moon. We actually share a similar position( currency-wise).


We are in consensus here because the gold standard is fucking moronic.
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