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Seasteading: Sustainable, Viable, Equitable?Follow

#1 Feb 11 2014 at 7:54 AM Rating: Good
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There are a couple different efforts to colonize our oceans.

The Seasteading Institutes goals are to build floating cities to test out various forms of government - it seems a pie in the sky goal.
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The Seasteading Institute is a nonprofit 501(c)(3), working to enable seasteading communities - floating cities - which will allow the next generation of pioneers to test new ideas for government. The most successful can then inspire change in governments around the world.


Not technically sea-steading but still with a goal to avoid governing, Blueseed is a big tech start-up and research vessel (also, not yet a reality) that will live off the coast of Silicon Valley.
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Blueseed is creating the world’s most amazing upcoming startup community for entrepreneurs, on a cruise ship 12 nautical miles from the coast of San Francisco, in international waters. The location allows startup entrepreneurs from anywhere in the world to launch or grow their companies near Silicon Valley, without the need for a U.S. work visa. The ship will be converted into a coworking and co-living space, and will have high-speed Internet access and daily transportation to the mainland via ferry boat. So far, over 1500 entrepreneurs from 500 startups in 70+ countries have expressed interest in living on Blueseed.

The Freedom Ship is an on-again/off-again project of a floating city that will travel the world, but based off the Florida coast. It's just one big vessel. This once seemed the most likely seasteading project to get off the ground (or on the water) at one point but then it died. There may be some resurrection going on. It a really really big cruise ship is all - too big for any international port. With all the recent illnesses that have spread through cruise ships - this whole concept seems overblown.

It seems the missions are all attempting to avoid all governance. I suppose if you have the money to go reside in international waters out from under the long arm of any laws and want to do that, so bit it, but I don't think it's a worthy cause risking the health of our oceans. The sea is not really meant for us to live and colonize on it's surface. On the other hand colonizing or homesteading the oceans could begin to build a worldwide policy foundation that will be necessary when we start to colonize the space. Smiley: clown



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#2 Feb 11 2014 at 7:59 AM Rating: Decent
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"International waters" just means "Area where there is nothing of particular value to be claimed by a nation state". Putting anything of sufficient value there basically guarantees a claim or claims from existing nations. At which point you become part of the US or whichever nation decides you belong to them. Because you don't have enough guns.
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#3 Feb 11 2014 at 8:11 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
"International waters" just means "Area where there is nothing of particular value to be claimed by a nation state". Putting anything of sufficient value there basically guarantees a claim or claims from existing nations. At which point you become part of the US or whichever nation decides you belong to them. Because you don't have enough guns.

Exactly.

The difference from the norm is that these vessels will presumably never hit land - at least the floating cities. currently all the laws governing the open oceans are basically transport laws that vessels become subject to when they want to enter or leave national or state waters. So, if the US is forced to have authority over your spot on the water, even if you never come into state waters, then it also has to take responsibility for it - insuring it's not exploited or used to film dolphin **** movies, etc.
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#4 Feb 11 2014 at 8:34 AM Rating: Decent
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The difference from the norm is that these vessels will presumably never hit land - at least the floating cities. currently all the laws governing the open oceans are basically transport laws that vessels become subject to when they want to enter or leave national or state waters. So, if the US is forced to have authority over your spot on the water, even if you never come into state waters, then it also has to take responsibility for it - insuring it's not exploited or used to film dolphin **** movies, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand

Right, or negotiate your hostage issues when the loonies fight each other. The salient point, of course, is that if Sealand happened to be over a North Sea oil reserve, it would have been rubble in about 1958.


Edited, Feb 11th 2014 9:34am by Smasharoo
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#5 Feb 11 2014 at 8:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Or we'd be entertained by the spectacle of Sealand being forcibly towed. I can smell the headlines from here.
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#6 Feb 11 2014 at 8:52 AM Rating: Good
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Haha, send Dawg the Bounty Hunter to fetch them. Then watch for a repossessed city-sized barge on ebay.


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#7 Feb 11 2014 at 9:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hawaii became claustrophobic in less than three months for me. Can't really imagine that working out any better on an overglorified bath toy. Though I guess it depends on the internet situation.
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#8 Feb 11 2014 at 10:07 AM Rating: Good
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Just what we need, to fill every single void on earth with more people.
#9 Feb 11 2014 at 10:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Overlooking the minor problem that it'll cost more to maintain a floating colony than to say, throw a couple of walls up in the middle of Montana somewhere, it sounds like a really great idea. Smiley: rolleyes
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#10 Feb 11 2014 at 10:40 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
So, if the US is forced to have authority over your spot on the water, even if you never come into state waters, then it also has to take responsibility for it - insuring it's not exploited or used to film dolphin **** movies, etc.
Why would the US take authority over it? Just don't allow the daily ferries to dock in the US.
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#11 Feb 11 2014 at 10:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not sure a glorified HOA counts as a "testbed for government" especially in a situation where you have zero natural resources (well, plenty of seawater I guess). Wasn't there a different proposal floated (heh) for one of these recently? Ocean libertarian wonderland? Insert Bioshock jokes here?
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#12 Feb 11 2014 at 10:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
I'm not sure a glorified HOA counts as a "testbed for government"
Well you need to have someone to complain to when your neighbor is skinning walrus on his front porch at 3am.
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#13 Feb 11 2014 at 11:14 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
I'm not sure a glorified HOA counts as a "testbed for government"
Well you need to have someone to complain to when your neighbor is skinning walrus on his front porch at 3am.

Unless it's your stolen walrus the neighbor is skinning, what's to complain about?

I got a kick out of this.....

The Freedom Ship wrote:
The FSI architectural committee must approve the appearance of all storefronts.
Freedom is all relative I suppose, but the 'committee' having final say on something as trivial, yet personal as a store front appearance seems big brotherly, no?

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#14 Feb 11 2014 at 11:15 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
I'm not sure a glorified HOA counts as a "testbed for government"
Well you need to have someone to complain to when your neighbor is skinning walrus on his front porch at 3am.


"Skinning Walrus"? Has Google heard of this one yet?
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#15 Feb 11 2014 at 11:23 AM Rating: Good
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This post has been self-censored.

Edited, Feb 11th 2014 6:26pm by Elinda
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#16 Feb 11 2014 at 11:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
The Freedom Ship wrote:
The FSI architectural committee must approve the appearance of all storefronts.
Freedom is all relative I suppose, but the 'committee' having final say on something as trivial, yet personal as a store front appearance seems big brotherly, no?
But on the flip side you can have your composite shingles and front yard garden! Smiley: nod

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someproteinguy wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
I'm not sure a glorified HOA counts as a "testbed for government"
Well you need to have someone to complain to when your neighbor is skinning walrus on his front porch at 3am.


"Skinning Walrus"? Has Google heard of this one yet?
No, and they ain't gonna are they?

*reaches for duct tape*
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#17 Feb 11 2014 at 2:45 PM Rating: Good
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I wonder how that will deal with anti-corrosion and other maintenance, that along with floating structure vibro problems are fairly significant challenges, especially with the personal freedoms angle. Requiring a galvanization tax would be moderately hilarious to me .
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#18 Feb 11 2014 at 3:00 PM Rating: Good
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Not to mention their turds that will inevitably go overboard.
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#19 Feb 11 2014 at 3:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thankfully there are tons of people looking to sell to those who want a natural community rather than only those who want a sanitized environment.
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#20 Feb 11 2014 at 3:36 PM Rating: Good
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As long as you externalize it, it's someone else's problem now.
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#21 Feb 11 2014 at 4:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sounds better than trying to hold it in.
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#22 Feb 11 2014 at 7:20 PM Rating: Good
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Let the free market decide where **** should go ,
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#23 Feb 11 2014 at 7:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Obviously the **** deck.
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#24 Feb 12 2014 at 9:32 AM Rating: Good
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Lolgaxe sticks the landing.

None of these floating communities really discuss self-sufficiency much. I think they'd all rely on supplies from the mainland, though the freedom ship does discuss light manufacturing, but not gardening. If you had gardens presumably you could compost your poo for it.
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#25 Feb 12 2014 at 11:56 AM Rating: Good
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Timelordwho wrote:
Let the free market decide where sh*t should go ,


The free market has spoken, it's in your bedroom.
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#26 Feb 12 2014 at 6:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Kavekk wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
Let the free market decide where sh*t should go ,


The free market has spoken, it's in your bedroom.


The free market, or the poo?
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#27 Feb 12 2014 at 7:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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My bedroom is like a Moroccan bazaar!
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#28 Feb 12 2014 at 7:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
My bedroom is like a Moroccan bazaar!


You haggle for goods and services with sketchy people in your bedroom?

Does Flea know?


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#29 Feb 12 2014 at 8:05 PM Rating: Good
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Timelordwho wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
My bedroom is like a Moroccan bazaar!


You haggle for goods and services with sketchy people in your bedroom?

Does Flea know?
Joph is the sketchy dude she haggles with.
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#30 Feb 12 2014 at 8:18 PM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
My bedroom is like a Moroccan bazaar!


You haggle for goods and services with sketchy people in your bedroom?

Does Flea know?
Joph is the sketchy dude she haggles with.

Those foreigners have odd mating rituals.
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#31 Feb 12 2014 at 8:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Joph is the sketchy dude she haggles with.

You like monkey? You take monkey!
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#32 Feb 12 2014 at 8:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Joph is the sketchy dude she haggles with.

You like monkey? You take monkey!
Definitely an odd mating ritual.
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#33 Feb 12 2014 at 8:48 PM Rating: Good
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So I gather you each trade bizarre props between sessions? Does it end up like a scene from "Who's Line is it Anyway"?

"I want to wear the pontiff's hat tonight!"

"Only if you trade me your harmonic and trained monkey. Ok, I'm I'm a lovable street rat and you're a pope sexula..."
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#34 Feb 13 2014 at 8:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Joph is the sketchy dude she haggles with.
You like monkey? You take monkey!
Definitely an odd mating ritual.
Maybe, but you know what? Free monkey.
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#35 Feb 13 2014 at 11:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Joph is the sketchy dude she haggles with.
You like monkey? You take monkey!
Definitely an odd mating ritual.
Maybe, but you know what? Free monkey.
There's no such thing as a free monkey.
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