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#227 Feb 24 2014 at 2:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Origins...

Some zircon crystals found in Western Australia were dated at 4.4 billion years old. They were dated by measuring uranium decay to lead.

Quote:
But some scientists pointed out a potential problem: Atoms of lead might move around inside the crystal. "And if that happens, in the places where it's concentrated, you will measure an older age than the true age," Valley explains.

So Valley's team recently tackled this issue with a powerful new instrument that can pluck out and identify individual atoms, to create a kind of map of their distribution inside the crystal. They found that lead atoms do move around, but only a tiny bit — not enough to affect their age calculations. This particular crystal that they analyzed, they say, is 4.374 billion years old, plus or minus 6 million years.

Sam Bowring, a geologist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, says it's pretty hard to argue with this new study, which appears this week in the journal Nature Geoscience.
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#228 Feb 26 2014 at 11:36 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Origins...


The universe is the epitome of awe and mystery. Recognizing that fact and understanding the science that seeks to explore it does in no way contradict my faith in God. Science seeks to explore the creation and not the creator; when science tries to seek the Creator then I no longer be consider it to be science.

Ridiculing the biblical text for not being scientific is like ridiculing a dinner menu for not having the recipes on it.
Science is a human construct; not some cosmic force as many seem to want it to be. It is the tool by which we measure and observe the universe yet it is limited in scope because humans were designed to operate beyond mere observation and reaction. We do think and reason and imagine things that are greater than we have ever experienced and we have the capacity for faith; which is the hope of things unseen. It is what makes us unique from any other thing in our known universe.

Even though I AM a "fundie moran" and I have the capacity to choose to take every word of the Bible literally.. I do not try to deny the possibility of the cosmos being billions of years old. I also have the capacity to say "I don't know" to some things rather than arbitrarily choosing one side or the other simply for comfort or convenience. (but I will posit that my belief in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob does come from the Holy Spirit..[which provides proof after the faith] but that's another matter). There does seem to be (Biblical) 'evidence' that there were things that had happened prior to the 6 day creation. It says that "God created the heavens and the earth" and "the earth was without form and void" yet later on in the Bible it states quite clearly that God does not create things "without form and void". (I'd provide verses if I thought anyone cared lol) Not to mention: Since I do believe in extra-dimensional beings such as demons and angels then there must be a time when they were created. It does seem to me that they were created prior to the 6-day creation of earth (earth as we know it) which implies that things were already happening long before the 6-day creation.

There is nothing in The Bible that contradicts science anymore than cars contradict cabbage. It is a document that purports to be the only reliable hard communication from The Creator, a catalog of humanity, and a message containing the ultimate meaning of our existence.. It doesn't seek to lay out the blueprints of the universe just to satisfy our egocentric curiosity.

I am not ashamed of being a "fundamentalist" (if that's what I am).
It seems that when things like eternity and the Creator of Creation are concerned.. then those concerns should indeed be fundamental.
If you can believe just 2 words from the Bible.. "God created" then there should be no logical reason why you cannot believe the rest of it.

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#229 Feb 26 2014 at 11:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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The universe is the epitome of awe and mystery. Recognizing that fact and understanding the science that seeks to explore it does in no way contradict my faith in God. Science seeks to explore the creation and not the creator; when science tries to seek the Creator then I no longer be consider it to be science.

There's no reason to believe there is a "creator" other than mindless staggering arrogance. Surely, EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS must have come into being via a process that's an analog to a human one. Because, you know, it's all about us.
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#230 Feb 26 2014 at 12:43 PM Rating: Good
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Kelvy wrote:
The universe is the epitome of awe and mystery. Recognizing that fact and understanding the science that seeks to explore it does in no way contradict my faith in God. Science seeks to explore the creation and not the creator; when science tries to seek the Creator then I no longer be consider it to be science.
Why? From a scientific standpoint what's the difference between the former and the latter?

Quote:
There's no reason to believe there is a "creator" other than mindless staggering arrogance. Surely, EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS must have come into being via a process that's an analog to a human one. Because, you know, it's all about us.

It is all about us. That's kind of the point.

Humanity - what's the deal with it. Why are we so extraordinary in the animal kingdom and, as far as we know, the cosmos?


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#231 Feb 26 2014 at 1:25 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
It is all about us.
Mostly about me.
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#232 Feb 26 2014 at 1:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:

There's no reason to believe there is a "creator" other than mindless staggering arrogance. Surely, EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS must have come into being via a process that's an analog to a human one. Because, you know, it's all about us.


Yes and in my view there is no reason to believe that existence is meaningless other than arrogant staggering ignorance. Surely that fact that our minds have the capacity to contain and entertain the notion of meaning outside of standard observation and basic stimulatory reactions (i.e. metacognition) tells me that there is a logical basis for the reality of a higher form of sentient consciousness in existence. If the electrochemical processes in our brains can produce such things then it is not beyond reason that there are processes existent in the universe that can produce a similar state of awareness.
If such is the case then it makes more sense that the lesser has its source in the greater.
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#233 Feb 26 2014 at 1:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
Kelvy wrote:
The universe is the epitome of awe and mystery. Recognizing that fact and understanding the science that seeks to explore it does in no way contradict my faith in God. Science seeks to explore the creation and not the creator; when science tries to seek the Creator then I no longer be consider it to be science.
Why? From a scientific standpoint what's the difference between the former and the latter?


The difference is simply that we cannot expect to find an ultimate proof of God from our own means any more than an infant can find its own proof that its parents are its parenst or a river can flow higher than its source. The only evidence of such things would have to be provided by the higher source and we cannot gain information that is not provided to us. If God chose to provide you with irrefutable evidence of His existence then your LOVE for Him could never be genuine. It is not simply all about us.. it is all about LOVE and love cannot be imposed.. love must be out of free-will and God will not violate the free-will that he has given us to either reject or accept Him.


Quote:

Humanity - what's the deal with it. Why are we so extraordinary in the animal kingdom and, as far as we know, the cosmos?


Animals, vegetables, and minerals have no free-will. A star cannot choose not to shine.. and an animal cannot choose to reject being an animal. These things are all under direct control of their design (and designer) and have no choice but to do what God wants them to do. Humans are given a choice so that they can choose to love God or to reject God. That is what makes us extra-ordinary.
As far as the rest of the cosmos.. I think that is superfluous to the subject. As far as I have have seen the rest of the cosmos cannot do anything other than remain the cosmos.

Love is the answer; and God's Love is the meaning of existence.
Without that then the only meaning is that which we prescribe to it.. relativism which is chaos and the cosmos is clearly the opposite of chaos; therefore a meaningless existence is the real fantasy.

Edited, Feb 26th 2014 2:53pm by Kelvyquayo
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#234 Feb 26 2014 at 2:44 PM Rating: Good
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You didn't differentiate at all between humans an other animals. Other animals have exhibited 'free will', and humans are not any more able to not be humans than panda's are able to be geese.
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#235 Feb 26 2014 at 2:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
humans are not any more able to not be humans than panda's are able to be geese.
We're better at pretending to be.

At least that's what I've gathered from Aethien's BDT links...
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#236 Feb 26 2014 at 2:52 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Elinda wrote:
humans are not any more able to not be humans than panda's are able to be geese.
We're better at pretending to be.

At least that's what I've gathered from Aethien's BDT links...

Free will allows you to make the decision NOT to click on Aeth's links.
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#237 Feb 26 2014 at 2:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Elinda wrote:
humans are not any more able to not be humans than panda's are able to be geese.
We're better at pretending to be.

At least that's what I've gathered from Aethien's BDT links...

Free will allows you to make the decision NOT to click on Aeth's links.
But then you'd miss out on any Google-censored wow, that word made it into firefox's spell checker Smiley: lol fun. Smiley: frown

Granted it's not ideal at the workplace, I'll lend you that, but ignorance serves no one in the end!
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#238 Feb 26 2014 at 4:23 PM Rating: Good
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Smiley: lol
#239 Feb 26 2014 at 7:46 PM Rating: Good
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Kelvyquayo wrote:
- Physics describes 10 dimensions.. implying that time and space dimensions are not all that are in existence and the entirety of the existent universe (as it is understood by science) is a compound of these 10 dimensions.

Might want to trade in those PBS specials for some linear algebra classes.
#240 Feb 26 2014 at 9:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Allegory wrote:
Kelvyquayo wrote:
- Physics describes 10 dimensions.. implying that time and space dimensions are not all that are in existence and the entirety of the existent universe (as it is understood by science) is a compound of these 10 dimensions.

Might want to trade in those PBS specials for some linear algebra classes.


I can tell you right now, no god would allow something like n-dimensional transform matrices to exist.

Edited, Feb 26th 2014 10:29pm by Timelordwho
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#241 Feb 26 2014 at 9:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Another strike against intelligent design.
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#242 Feb 26 2014 at 10:18 PM Rating: Good
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Kelvyquayo wrote:

Science is a human construct;



And religion isn't?
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#243 Feb 26 2014 at 10:18 PM Rating: Default
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Timelordwho wrote:
Allegory wrote:
Kelvyquayo wrote:
- Physics describes 10 dimensions.. implying that time and space dimensions are not all that are in existence and the entirety of the existent universe (as it is understood by science) is a compound of these 10 dimensions.

Might want to trade in those PBS specials for some linear algebra classes.


I can tell you right now, no god would allow something like n-dimensional transform matrices to exist.

Edited, Feb 26th 2014 10:29pm by Timelordwho


That's why Carlin thought God had to be a man.

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#244 Feb 27 2014 at 12:46 PM Rating: Good
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angrymnk wrote:
Kelvyquayo wrote:

Science is a human construct;



And religion isn't?


No. Religion is the word if God. Don't you know anything?

Edited, Feb 27th 2014 1:48pm by TirithRR
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#245 Feb 27 2014 at 12:52 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
Kelvyquayo wrote:

Science is a human construct;



And religion isn't?


No. Religion is the word if God. Don't you know anything?


I suspect the cats.
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#246 Feb 27 2014 at 1:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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There is just as much evidence to the existence of God as there is to Spider-Man.
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#247 Feb 27 2014 at 1:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Absolutely.

There's a reason my minions wear web-resistant suits. Smiley: tinfoilhat
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#248 Feb 27 2014 at 1:47 PM Rating: Good
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Is that what they call onesies these days?


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#249 Feb 27 2014 at 1:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Prior to alteration yes. You can do a lot with some of these synthetic polymers.
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#250 Feb 27 2014 at 7:08 PM Rating: Decent
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angrymnk wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
I can tell you right now, no god would allow something like n-dimensional transform matrices to exist.


That's why Carlin thought God had to be a man.


Carlin was totally wrong though.
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#251 Feb 27 2014 at 10:50 PM Rating: Default
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TirithRR wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
Kelvyquayo wrote:

Science is a human construct;



And religion isn't?


No. Religion is the word if God. Don't you know anything?

Edited, Feb 27th 2014 1:48pm by TirithRR


I am god ( albeit in great disguise); just testing your faith chum.
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