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#1 Jan 13 2014 at 3:46 AM Rating: Decent
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What are your Governor Christie predictions?

My predictions are as follows:

1. No evidence of his participation, but proof of his knowledge
2. No one says nuttin....Christie gets by with little damage and moves on to run for 2016
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#2 Jan 13 2014 at 6:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Same thing that always seems to happen in these cases: some underling will throw himself on the grenade and be summarily dismissed. Christie will live down the stink.
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#3 Jan 13 2014 at 7:30 AM Rating: Good
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I don't think he'll suffer much. If the proceeding investigations are kept low-key and don't find anything terribly damning, the public will have forgotten all about it by spring.
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#4 Jan 13 2014 at 7:57 AM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
Same thing that always seems to happen in these cases: some underling will throw himself on the grenade and be summarily dismissed. Christie will live down the stink.


That's already pretty much what happened. Problem is, the other underlings getting caught up in this have little loyalty to him. The one who pled the fifth, Wildstein I think it was, has been offered immunity to squeal like a pig. He's still in talks with lawyers.

What gets me is the stupidity of coordinating this by email. All it took was perfectly legal requests by citizens for the emails to uncover the whole rat's nest.

Edited, Jan 13th 2014 9:04am by Catwho
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#5 Jan 13 2014 at 8:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho wrote:
What gets me is the stupidity of coordinating this by email. All it took was perfectly legal requests by citizens for the emails to uncover the whole rat's nest.


Doesn't surprise me a bit. People are generally ignorant about how very permanent an email trail can be.

If you have any experience with electronic forensics or discovery, you quickly learn that people will say anything in email, and be absolutely confident that they've covered their own tracks by deleting it. After it's been sent, forwarded, archived, etc. etc. etc.
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#6 Jan 13 2014 at 10:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Samira wrote:
Doesn't surprise me a bit. People are generally ignorant about how very permanent an email trail can be.

If you have any experience with electronic forensics or discovery, you quickly learn that people will say anything in email, and be absolutely confident that they've covered their own tracks by deleting it. After it's been sent, forwarded, archived, etc. etc. etc.


This is actually why I prefer email. At my old job, I would save every email I got, even the ones that just said "thank you" after I sent someone something. A co-worker asked me about that once, and I said, "They can't deny that I sent it to them or that it got lost somehow this way."
#7 Jan 13 2014 at 11:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho wrote:
What gets me is the stupidity of coordinating this by email. All it took was perfectly legal requests by citizens for the emails to uncover the whole rat's nest.
This is what happens when people sit around inside all day. GO OUTDOORS AND TALK TO OTHERS IN PERSON YOU FREAKS!

Kids these days... Smiley: disappointed

It'll be interesting to see how far up it went and how many people have to take a hit to blunt the charge. It'll erode his support structure at the very least, less loyal minions around to sacrifice next time something blows up. Now seeing we're moving on to a Sandy money scandal it makes me wonder who's been sitting on what for how long, and how much of it there is.

Should be some good dramas.

Smiley: popcorn
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#8 Jan 13 2014 at 11:08 AM Rating: Good
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I heard about that too. Something about the winning bid of the marketing firm for the revitalized Jersey Shore costing 2.2 million more than the next lowest bidder. The firm that was chosen featured Chris Christie in the advertisements - during his re-election campaign. The losing bid did not. Smiley: tinfoilhat
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Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

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#9 Jan 13 2014 at 11:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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What it does, at least short term, is undermine the "Straight talking guy who might be brash but gets things done" persona he's created for himself. People don't mind (or maybe even respect) an in-your-face attitude that gets results but they mind political vendettas that affect them personally.

Whether any of this will matter in 2016, who knows. We spent 2004 talking about some medals Kerry earned in the 1960s/70s and 2008 dissecting a sermon from a guy from 2001. So who knows trivial stuff will pop back up in 2016.
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#10 Jan 13 2014 at 11:24 AM Rating: Good
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At least it went out to bid. My guess is, if they had a bidding process, that there is something on record to justify the award of the contract - even if it is cheesy reasoning.

I think the dems are probably on a bit of a Christie-witch hunt right now.

Visual of the lane closure.
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#11 Jan 13 2014 at 11:27 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
At least it went out to bid. My guess is, if they had a bidding process, that there is something on record to justify the award of the contract - even if it is cheesy reasoning.

I think the dems are probably on a bit of a Christie-witch hunt right now.

Visual of the lane closure.


That cheesy reasoning cost US taxpayers 2.2 million dollars of money that was designated for Superstorm Sandy relief efforts. I don't think the feds care what NJ does with NJ's money, but that cheesy reason had better be rock solid to be worth two million bucks.
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Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

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#12 Jan 13 2014 at 11:32 AM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
Elinda wrote:
At least it went out to bid. My guess is, if they had a bidding process, that there is something on record to justify the award of the contract - even if it is cheesy reasoning.

I think the dems are probably on a bit of a Christie-witch hunt right now.

Visual of the lane closure.


That cheesy reasoning cost US taxpayers 2.2 million dollars of money that was designated for Superstorm Sandy relief efforts. I don't think the feds care what NJ does with NJ's money, but that cheesy reason had better be rock solid to be worth two million bucks.

The cheesy reasoning I thought was to give one company the contract over another. The ads themselves were supposedly approved by the feds - I'm assuming before it even went out to bid.

Honestly, I don't know anything about the situation, only that if there is a bid process then there is likely some justification for giving the contract out.






Edited, Jan 13th 2014 6:35pm by Elinda
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#13 Jan 13 2014 at 12:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
What are your Governor Christie predictions?



Diabetus.
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#14 Jan 13 2014 at 6:03 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
People are generally ignorant about how very permanent an email trail can be.
Most people are pretty ignorant about how forum posting works, too. They seem to believe it's the same as regular conversation, and that given enough time what they say will be forgotten.
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#15 Jan 13 2014 at 6:05 PM Rating: Default
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Kuwoobie wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
What are your Governor Christie predictions?



Diabetus.


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#16 Jan 13 2014 at 6:06 PM Rating: Default
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lolgaxe wrote:
Samira wrote:
People are generally ignorant about how very permanent an email trail can be.
Most people are pretty ignorant about how forum posting works, too. They seem to believe it's the same as regular conversation, and that given enough time what they say will be forgotten.


Wait, it doesn't automagically disappear like that instagram thingy?
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#17angrymnk, Posted: Jan 13 2014 at 6:10 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Not impossible, unless mR. wEinsStein turns.
#18 Jan 13 2014 at 10:30 PM Rating: Decent
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I predict that, once the public gets over the shock of discovering high-level corruption in New Jersey, they will soon pay more attention to another breaking story: new mayor Di Blasio's treasonous act of eating a slice of pizza...with a fork!
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#19 Jan 14 2014 at 12:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well, I wouldn't eat real pizza with a fork but I guess eating the New York stuff with a fork is okay.
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#20 Jan 14 2014 at 7:36 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Well, I wouldn't eat real pizza with a fork but I guess eating the New York stuff with a fork is okay.
You should realize that while those are English words, in that combination its just nonsensical gibberish that no one can decipher.
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#21 Jan 14 2014 at 7:38 AM Rating: Good
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It's Chicago style you eat with a knife and fork. Duh.
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I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

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#22 Jan 14 2014 at 7:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Christie was only ever a viable '16 candidate in the minds of the chattering classes. There was and is 0 chance he could make it through that primary process. This is better for everyone concerned, really. The "if only we could elect a moderate" pundits have a new McCain to pine over without the complications of the idiot in question making it to the national stage and being exposed as a petty hack. The narrative of the '16 GOP loss writes itself really.
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#23 Jan 14 2014 at 10:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Debalic wrote:
I predict that, once the public gets over the shock of discovering high-level corruption in New Jersey
Smiley: dubious

Smiley: rolleyes

Smasharoo wrote:
Christie was only ever a viable '16 candidate in the minds of the chattering classes. There was and is 0 chance he could make it through that primary process. This is better for everyone concerned, really. The "if only we could elect a moderate" pundits have a new McCain to pine over without the complications of the idiot in question making it to the national stage and being exposed as a petty hack. The narrative of the '16 GOP loss writes itself really.
Not only that but the "tough-talking" thing doesn't fly as well elsewhere in the country. It's nice he's moderate and all, but the whole persona comes off as being an ill-mannered jerk who you'd rather not have as president. They need more of a George Bush personality to appeal to the ignorant masses.

Edited, Jan 14th 2014 8:59am by someproteinguy
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#24 Jan 14 2014 at 3:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:
What gets me is the stupidity of coordinating this by email. All it took was perfectly legal requests by citizens for the emails to uncover the whole rat's nest.


Person A: "Yea, did you uh take care of that thing?"

Person B: "I took care of that thing"

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#27 Jan 14 2014 at 3:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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jimbrown45 wrote:
Like Obama.
Exactly, he had a much more appealing persona. I can see Christie as capable, but he seems to be lacking a broad appeal. Who knows though, he still has time to reinvent himself.

Bush: Straight-talking cowboy ruggedness.
Obama: Overcoming adversity, historic moment.
Christie: Angry fat guy. <--- Need something better here.

Edited, Jan 14th 2014 1:45pm by someproteinguy
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#28 Jan 14 2014 at 5:46 PM Rating: Default
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someproteinguy wrote:
jimbrown45 wrote:
Like Obama.
Exactly, he had a much more appealing persona. I can see Christie as capable, but he seems to be lacking a broad appeal. Who knows though, he still has time to reinvent himself.

Bush: Straight-talking cowboy ruggedness.
Obama: Overcoming adversity, historic moment.
Christie: Angry fat guy. <--- Need something better here.

Edited, Jan 14th 2014 1:45pm by someproteinguy


I wouldn't underestimate the angry fat guys; as a demographic they are clearly gaining majority. It is very relatable in a 'guy like me kind of stupidity'.
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#29 Jan 15 2014 at 6:16 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Christie: Angry fat guy. <--- Need something better here.
Don't know, kind of worked in Teddy's favor. Bully.
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#30 Jan 15 2014 at 7:38 AM Rating: Good
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Like Obama. No Republican will win a national election for a very long time, if ever. Numbers don't support the GOP. Over half the nation is dependent on government in some capacity. And the Dems have all these people locked up and Obama's increasing their numbers at an exponential rate. By the time Obama's done 60% of this national will be receiving some sort of government aid.


Well it's closer to 100%, really. I mean the home mortgage interest tax deduction is a massive welfare program, not to mention underwriting of said same mortgages. When you add in gurantees for student loans you end up with about 19 or 20 ultra rich douche-bags who haven't collected welfare.
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#31 Jan 15 2014 at 8:01 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Christie: Angry fat guy. <--- Need something better here.
Don't know, kind of worked in Teddy's favor. Bully.

I've always viewed Christie as more of a jovial chubby guy.

Bush -> rugged. Really?


Edited, Jan 15th 2014 3:01pm by Elinda
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#32 Jan 15 2014 at 8:06 AM Rating: Good
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Don't know, kind of worked in Teddy's favor. Bully.

Angry is fine. Christie is really fat though. REALLY fat. "loses every televised debate immediately" fat. William Howard Taft fat. That's not going to work in 2016. He needs to Huckabee that **** really soon to not be laughed off the stage in 2016. Again, no chance, regardless, but definitely way too fat to even consider at the moment.
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#33 Jan 15 2014 at 8:16 AM Rating: Good
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Unfortunately we still tend to view obesity as a sign of poor character rather than as a disease that needs treatment.

But Smash is correct in this.
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#34 Jan 15 2014 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
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#36 Jan 15 2014 at 12:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hey just keep adding whatever you like. I mean clearly you think getting a welfare check is the same as taking an interest tax deduction on a house you've already paid taxes on to begin with.

But I suppose it helps you sleep at night living the lie that everyone is on the take rather than primarily just the people you associate with politically.


Spoken like someone who went to a public university but doesn't realize that was welfare. Oh well, I don't expect takers like you to have self awareness. Noblesse oblige and all that.
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#37 Jan 15 2014 at 4:38 PM Rating: Default
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Smasharoo wrote:

Hey just keep adding whatever you like. I mean clearly you think getting a welfare check is the same as taking an interest tax deduction on a house you've already paid taxes on to begin with.

But I suppose it helps you sleep at night living the lie that everyone is on the take rather than primarily just the people you associate with politically.


Spoken like someone who went to a public university but doesn't realize that was welfare. Oh well, I don't expect takers like you to have self awareness. Noblesse oblige and all that.


Doesn't change the fact that there's a pretty significant difference between paying less in taxes versus receiving a check from the government far in excess of anything paid in. I think it's kinda pointless to argue over labels while ignoring the large facts of the issue. "Takers" are those who receive more from the government than they pay. That's what he was talking about (in an admittedly ham fisted way, but whatever). As the percentage of people who receive more than they pay increases, those people are more likely to be beholden to the political party that is essentially paying them for their votes.


That's a valid argument to make, IMO. The Dems have shifted over time from arguing for their political ideology, to just scaring people about their government benefits (basically holding them over them). It's really hard to not see that Dems are doing exactly what we conservatives have argued for decades is the danger of government funded welfare. It becomes a means to control the population. Once you make people dependent on those benefits, you can control them. And every time a Democrat says something like "Don't vote GOP, or they'll cut your benefits!", they're exercising that control. From a conservative point of view, the correct course of action is to not provide those benefits in the first place, and then the government can't use them as a tool to control people. But heaven forbid we care about people's freedoms.

Edited, Jan 15th 2014 2:38pm by gbaji
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#38 Jan 15 2014 at 6:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
I think it's kinda pointless to argue over labels
Says the guy who uses the word liberal like a comma.
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#39 Jan 15 2014 at 6:16 PM Rating: Default
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
I think it's kinda pointless to argue over labels
Says the guy who uses the word liberal like a comma.


But I'm not ignoring the larger issues when I do, so no problem, right?
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#40 Jan 15 2014 at 6:20 PM Rating: Good
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I learned something today. The maximum time someone can be on TANF (current term for welfare) is five years.

So, even if someone is raising their children at home since they can't afford child care sitting on their duff and collecting government benefits instead of working, the teat gets chopped off.

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#41 Jan 15 2014 at 6:22 PM Rating: Good
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Ignoring issues is your modus operandi.
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#42 Jan 15 2014 at 6:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Christie must not be too tough. I had to listen to Limbaugh go on for far too long today about how mean ole Bruce Springsteen is a big meanie-head and hurt Christie's feelings and made him cry because liberals are big meanie jerkie-jerk-jerk-sauces. Who are mean. To Chris Christie.
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#43 Jan 15 2014 at 6:27 PM Rating: Good
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Doesn't change the fact that there's a pretty significant difference between paying less in taxes versus receiving a check from the government far in excess of anything paid in. I think it's kinda pointless to argue over labels while ignoring the large facts of the issue. "Takers" are those who receive more from the government than they pay.

Right, like people that get 30 year mortgages for ****** San Diego condos. Such instruments don't exist without Fannie Mae. Takers like that?
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#44 Jan 15 2014 at 6:44 PM Rating: Default
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Smasharoo wrote:
Doesn't change the fact that there's a pretty significant difference between paying less in taxes versus receiving a check from the government far in excess of anything paid in. I think it's kinda pointless to argue over labels while ignoring the large facts of the issue. "Takers" are those who receive more from the government than they pay.

Right, like people that get 30 year mortgages for sh*tty San Diego condos. Such instruments don't exist without Fannie Mae. Takers like that?


I'm reasonably certain that 30 year mortgages with 20% down would exist with or without Fannie Mae. Don't confuse the fact that the government has increasingly stepped into regulating the lending market with the assumption that lending would not exist without the government. It would, and would arguably be far less prone to the kinds of disasters we experienced a few years back.


And having said that, "takers" in this context means getting more from the government than you pay. Regardless of the governments involvement in creating/regulating the loan instrument itself, the person taking out the loan still pays more in taxes than he gets back in deduction. It's a deduction. By definition, it can't pay more money than the person paid in taxes. The best it can do is make you pay zero taxes (income taxes anyway). This is completely different than receiving a welfare check of some kind. That's money paid to you, period. Not a reduction in the amount you pay.

I'm sure that this is the point where you argue that the value of what government does for the people as a whole is so incredibly vast that everyone is a "taker", so let me respond ahead of time with "that's not what we're talking about". It's about direct dollars paid versus taken. Whether we collectively gain more benefits from our public education or transportation or whatever dollars than it costs us is a completely different question. We're talking about an individual, and how much money he pays to the government versus how much money the government directly pays to him. No amount of tax deductions makes someone a taker. A person who pays zero dollars in taxes while receiving tens of thousands of dollars in direct benefits is.

Edited, Jan 15th 2014 4:46pm by gbaji
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#45 Jan 15 2014 at 6:46 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Christie must not be too tough. I had to listen to Limbaugh go on for far too long today about how mean ole Bruce Springsteen is a big meanie-head and hurt Christie's feelings and made him cry because liberals are big meanie jerkie-jerk-jerk-sauces. Who are mean. To Chris Christie.


Rush comes in strong down here. The station up north that plays his shows barely comes in. I try listening to him... but I can't tell when he's ranting about current issues, or when he's trying to sell gold/silver, home security, or identity protection, to people afraid of Liberals. Or maybe the two categories aren't mutually exclusive.
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#46 Jan 15 2014 at 6:51 PM Rating: Good
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I'm reasonably certain that 30 year mortgages with 20% down would exist with or without Fannie Mae.

You are dead fucking wrong. I know you operate from blissful ignorance, but look into the history of the 30 year mortgage sometime. Not really a partisan issue, there's no reason to take on the aggregate risk involved without Fannie and Freddie and banks wouldn't. To own a house you'd have to basically be able to pay cash or close to it. A good argument could be made that having to do that would have avoided home price bubbles funneled money to places other than real estate speculation and be better generally for the economy, but that's a separate issue. There is zero chance, ZERO that banks could make 30 year loans without broad guarantees. Certainly not against 80% LTV at prime +2 or whatever.

Edited, Jan 15th 2014 7:56pm by Smasharoo
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TirithRR wrote:
when he's trying to sell gold/silver, home security, or identity protection, to people afraid of Liberals.

The commercials are fascinating. My favorite is the dog vitamins where the testimonials are always "Them fancy science vet types gave me all sorts of terrible advice and done near killed my dog. Then I tried these here simple vitamins made by common folk and my dog is better than ever!" It's custom made for the conservative anti-science mindset.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#48 Jan 15 2014 at 7:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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The commercials are fascinating. My favorite is the dog vitamins where the testimonials are always "Them fancy science vet types gave me all sorts of terrible advice and done near killed my dog. Then I tried these here simple vitamins made by common folk and my dog is better than ever!" It's custom made for the conservative anti-science mindset.

No idea if it's market specific but all of the conservative talk commercial breaks here are basically:

Limp ****? Owe taxes? Buy gold! Buy newsletter! Getting divorced? Going bald? On an endless loop. Leads one to conclude that the demographic is basically impotent men who are bad at paying taxes. Who are getting divorced.
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#49 Jan 15 2014 at 7:25 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
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The "owe taxes?" one is always good for a chuckle out of me. What can I say, they know their demo.

I liked the silver ones after the market tumbled: "Now you can buy silver on sale! For less than the cost of production!" Makin' lemonade and all that.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#50 Jan 15 2014 at 7:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Leads one to conclude that the demographic is basically impotent men who are bad at paying taxes. Who are getting divorced.


Cause, meet effect.
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#51 Jan 15 2014 at 7:45 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
Quote:
Leads one to conclude that the demographic is basically impotent men who are bad at paying taxes. Who are getting divorced.


Cause, meet effect.


Women hate men who are bad at paying taxes.
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