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#202 Dec 12 2013 at 9:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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So once every decade you find a legitimate example? Smiley: laugh
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#203 Dec 12 2013 at 9:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Was I wrong in this thread to point out that Git's assumption about the information in the article in question was wrong?


I don't know, I'm not going to litigate a 10 year old thread. Let's assume you were correct. That's 1 correct example in 10 years of posting. How many times would you estimate you've made similar claims?
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#204 Dec 12 2013 at 9:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
This was an incredibly clear case of an article written specifically to make people believe one thing, even when all the facts said the exact opposite.
I didn't know you were published.
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#205 Dec 13 2013 at 12:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think the more interestIng question is "Did he just comb through 10yrs of post to find an example or did he save that example 10 years ago as proof?"
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#206 Dec 13 2013 at 12:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm hoping this means the forum search function is fixed.

Sure, I could do a search and check but this way I get to retain hopeful optimism rather than risk crushing reality.
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#207 Feb 03 2014 at 12:54 AM Rating: Decent
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/02/us-usa-georgezimmerman-boxing-idUSBREA1101520140202

So, the man who claimed "self-defense" against a teenager is now open for celebrity boxing and apparently has a history in boxing.
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#208 Feb 03 2014 at 6:54 AM Rating: Good
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The resurrection of this thread was timely.

Florida is trying it's Stand Your Ground law again as the trial begins for Micheal Dunn.

Dunn, a 47 year old white guy with a concealed gun got into an argument with a some black teens in an SUV over the music volume when their two vehicles were parked side-by-side at a convenience store. Dunn, 'feeling threatened' shoot into the SUV multiple times killing one and wounding another kid.

Dunn claims he was verbally threatened and that Davis, the deceased kid, was waving a gun around. There were no guns found in the SUV or on any of the teens.

STORY.

It will interesting to see how this goes.
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#209 Feb 03 2014 at 7:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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Florida is one **** up place...
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#210 Feb 03 2014 at 7:44 AM Rating: Good
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I find most amusing similarity about this most recent case and the Trayvon Martin case is that the 'entitled responsible gun toting white adult' instigated the encounter.

Bunch of weanies.
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#211 Feb 03 2014 at 8:47 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
It will be interesting to see how this goes.
Not really.
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#212 Feb 03 2014 at 9:15 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
It will be interesting to see how this goes.
Not really.

Well sure not if cartoons are your main thing.

I think Dunn will end up in jail. There are some similarities with the Martin-Zimmerman case, but in this instance there were lots of eye witnesses, no physical confrontations and Dunn left the scene of the crime. He'll be found guilty of some sort of murder, but still his defense is going to be Florida's rather unique law that grants someone the right to 'murder' based simply on feeling threatened.



Edited, Feb 3rd 2014 4:16pm by Elinda
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#213 Feb 03 2014 at 5:37 PM Rating: Default
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Elinda wrote:
I think Dunn will end up in jail. There are some similarities with the Martin-Zimmerman case, but in this instance there were lots of eye witnesses, no physical confrontations and Dunn left the scene of the crime. He'll be found guilty of some sort of murder, but still his defense is going to be Florida's rather unique law that grants someone the right to 'murder' based simply on feeling threatened.


Other than a gun being involved, there's no other similarities at all. Well, no other relevant similarities. They did both occur on planet Earth, so there's that.
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#214 Feb 03 2014 at 6:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Other than a gun being involved, there's no other similarities at all. Well, no other relevant similarities.

Well, both in the same jurisdiction, that's relevant.
Both claiming the same defense, that's relevant
Both men shooting men, that's relevant.
Both involve defendants who are monumentally racist terrified cowards who felt empowered by handguns because they live in a culture of fear and entitlement. That's REALLY relevant.

Edited, Feb 3rd 2014 7:08pm by Smasharoo
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#215 Feb 03 2014 at 6:51 PM Rating: Default
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Smasharoo wrote:
Other than a gun being involved, there's no other similarities at all. Well, no other relevant similarities.

Well, both in the same jurisdiction, that's relevant.


Not in terms of the cases "being similar". Hundreds of cases occurred in the same jurisdiction, yet we don't say they are similar because of that.

Quote:
Both claiming the same defense, that's relevant


Given we're talking about the similarities or differences between stand your ground cases, that's kinda circular, isn't it?

Quote:
Both men shooting men, that's relevant.


But not "similar" though. One involved a shooter firing at one person. The other involved the shooter firing at multiple people. In one, the shooter was in a car, in the other he was not. In one the victim was in a car. In the other he was not. In one, the shooter was lying on his back on the ground. In the other, he was not. In one, the victim was in the process of physically assaulting the shooter. In the other he was not. In one the shooter called the police before the shooting occurred and then waited for them to arrive afterwards. In the other, the shooter never called the police, and fled the scene afterwards.

There are vast differences between the two shootings. Far far more differences than similarities.
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#216 Feb 04 2014 at 12:49 AM Rating: Good
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Either way, I'm interested. But then I listened to Allegory and Timelordwho discuss statistics for two hours the other night.
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#217 Feb 04 2014 at 1:53 AM Rating: Good
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Seems to me having the white guy initiate the confrontation with the black guy, then white guy killing black guy while claiming stand your ground is all the similarity you need,
#218 Feb 04 2014 at 3:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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I take back what I said slightly. There is a mild amusement in watching people play Defend The White Guy, but only very mild. Like salsas made in the Midwest mild.
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#219 Feb 04 2014 at 5:49 AM Rating: Default
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Gbaji wrote:

Other than a gun being involved, there's no other similarities at all. Well, no other relevant similarities. They did both occur on planet Earth, so there's that.


I'll bite...Both are "Stand your ground" cases that involve a dead unarmed person in the same state.
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#220 Feb 04 2014 at 7:44 AM Rating: Decent
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There are similarities, but there's also some notable differences.

1: Zimmerman ain't white.
2: Zimmerman isn't racist. ( according to the FBI and everyone that ever knew him).
3: Zimmerman got his **** whooped before **** his pants and pulling a gun.

Zimmerman may be a piece of **** but this comparison just lessens what a monumental fugazz this Dunn guy is.
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#221 Feb 04 2014 at 7:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Not in terms of the cases "being similar". Hundreds of cases occurred in the same jurisdiction, yet we don't say they are similar because of that.

We, speakers of the English language, do, actually. Fortunately for us all, you aren't the arbiter of what words mean. :( Sorry. I guess that similar to quail. Right?
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#222 Feb 04 2014 at 7:49 AM Rating: Good
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Gbaji wrote:

Other than a gun being involved, there's no other similarities at all. Well, no other relevant similarities. They did both occur on planet Earth, so there's that.

Not only planet earth - but Florida. Both the dead victims are young black men. Both escalated because a person with a gun felt compelled to stick his nose in another's business putting himself in a situation where he felt 'threatened'. Both were senseless and stupid.

Yeah, Zimmerman isn't a true white guy - but he had enough people fooled.
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#223 Feb 04 2014 at 7:49 AM Rating: Decent
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But not "similar" though. One involved a shooter firing at one person. The other involved the shooter firing at multiple people. In one, the shooter was in a car, in the other he was not. In one the victim was in a car. In the other he was not. In one, the shooter was lying on his back on the ground. In the other, he was not. In one, the victim was in the process of physically assaulting the shooter. In the other he was not. In one the shooter called the police before the shooting occurred and then waited for them to arrive afterwards. In the other, the shooter never called the police, and fled the scene afterwards.


Yes, there are also differences, good work. Did you mean "they aren't identical"? Because that would be true. They're similar. Vastly more so than almost every other two murder cases will be. So, on balance: similar.

The important part, however, is when you're told to either defend or not defend white shooting guy here. Have you not hear yet? I'm eager for you to receive your opinion about this case and let us know.
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#224 Feb 04 2014 at 7:58 AM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
I take back what I said slightly. There is a mild amusement in watching people play Defend The White Guy, but only very mild. Like salsas made in the Midwest mild.

Still, it's better than the stuff that's made in New York City.
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#225 Feb 04 2014 at 9:17 AM Rating: Good
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Debalic wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
I take back what I said slightly. There is a mild amusement in watching people play Defend The White Guy, but only very mild. Like salsas made in the Midwest mild.
Still, it's better than the stuff that's made in New York City.
NEW YORK CITY!?

It's not so bad if you go to a real Mexican restaurant, and the mobile lunch trucks. You know, the ones with the Koreans in the kitchen doing the cooking.
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#226 Feb 04 2014 at 7:36 PM Rating: Default
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xantav wrote:
Seems to me having the white guy initiate the confrontation with the black guy, then white guy killing black guy while claiming stand your ground is all the similarity you need,


If you are inordinately obsessed with race, I suppose so (all the more ironic in that a Latino shoots a black kid and you've been told that you're supposed to interpret things in a white vs black context, so you do so without question). But for those of us who look at people's actions and not their skin color, there are vast differences.

Stop obsessing over race. Look at the facts of the cases and you'll see they are nothing alike.
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#227 Feb 04 2014 at 7:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Almalieque wrote:
Gbaji wrote:

Other than a gun being involved, there's no other similarities at all. Well, no other relevant similarities. They did both occur on planet Earth, so there's that.


I'll bite...Both are "Stand your ground" cases that involve a dead unarmed person in the same state.


*cough* No they aren't. While a ton of political folks used the Zimmerman case as an excuse to bring up and attack Stand Your Ground. The law did not actually apply to the case, and Zimmerman did not claim it. Zimmerman's shooting of Martin was justified under normal self defense laws that exist in every freaking state in the Union and had that case been tried in any state almost certainly would have resulted in the same verdict. That Florida is a stand your ground state was utterly irrelevant to the Zimmerman case.

This, btw is why the jurisdiction isn't as relevant as some want to claim. This is an actual attempt to claim stand your ground, so being in a jurisdiction where stand your ground is allowed is relevant. Um... And it'll almost certainly fail. The guy shot someone else from within his own car. Even if you don't have a requirement to flee, you do have to show that you were in direct danger from the person you shot. Given that he was in his car and they were in there's, that's pretty close to impossible to show. If there was some other witness who could corroborate his claim that there was a gun brandished at him from the other car, he *might* have a shot. But in the absence of a gun, or any sign of a gun, he's probably going to lose his syg claim.
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#228 Feb 04 2014 at 9:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Gbaji wrote:
*cough* No they aren't. While a ton of political folks used the Zimmerman case as an excuse to bring up and attack Stand Your Ground. The law did not actually apply to the case, and Zimmerman did not claim it. Zimmerman's shooting of Martin was justified under normal self defense laws that exist in every freaking state in the Union and had that case been tried in any state almost certainly would have resulted in the same verdict. That Florida is a stand your ground state was utterly irrelevant to the Zimmerman case.

This, btw is why the jurisdiction isn't as relevant as some want to claim. This is an actual attempt to claim stand your ground, so being in a jurisdiction where stand your ground is allowed is relevant. Um... And it'll almost certainly fail. The guy shot someone else from within his own car. Even if you don't have a requirement to flee, you do have to show that you were in direct danger from the person you shot. Given that he was in his car and they were in there's, that's pretty close to impossible to show. If there was some other witness who could corroborate his claim that there was a gun brandished at him from the other car, he *might* have a shot. But in the absence of a gun, or any sign of a gun, he's probably going to lose his syg claim.


So you're saying that they were both cases of a man shooting an unarmed teen?
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#229 Feb 04 2014 at 9:47 PM Rating: Default
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Almalieque wrote:
So you're saying that they were both cases of a man shooting an unarmed teen?


Your ability to just bounce right back after being 100% wrong is admirable, I suppose.

Lots of shootings involve one person who is unarmed. Lots of them involve someone who is a teen. What's your point? Zimmerman was 29. Dunn is 45. Different circumstances. Different number of people involved. The differences between the two cases far far outweigh the similarities. I guess I'm just not sure what you think you're arguing here.

I mean I know why you're parroting the "This is just like the Zimmerman case!" bit. But I'm willing to bet that you don't know. I'll give you a hint: It's about establishing racial social assumptions among a target population so as to make certain types of political arguments easier to make in the future. Kinda blatantly so, but there it is.

Edited, Feb 4th 2014 7:47pm by gbaji
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#230 Feb 05 2014 at 3:15 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Your ability to just bounce right back after being 100% wrong is admirable, I suppose.

Lots of shootings involve one person who is unarmed. Lots of them involve someone who is a teen. What's your point? Zimmerman was 29. Dunn is 45. Different circumstances. Different number of people involved. The differences between the two cases far far outweigh the similarities. I guess I'm just not sure what you think you're arguing here.

I mean I know why you're parroting the "This is just like the Zimmerman case!" bit. But I'm willing to bet that you don't know. I'll give you a hint: It's about establishing racial social assumptions among a target population so as to make certain types of political arguments easier to make in the future. Kinda blatantly so, but there it is.


Smiley: lol Quite the contrary. You're using a straw man argument. I'm merely pointing out your failure to acknowledge any similarities than what you previously mentioned. My claim has nothing to do with race, hence why I didn't mention it. Nor was it about claiming that the two cases were exactly the same, hence why I didn't bother to counter your self-defense claim. My point was to show that they are more similar than what you claimed, hence why I mentioned the similarities.

I now understand why you claim that there were no similarities.
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#231 Feb 05 2014 at 3:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
It's about establishing racial social assumptions among a target population so as to make certain types of political arguments easier to make in the future. Kinda blatantly so, but there it is.
You get really defensive when other people try to steal your shtick.
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#232 Feb 05 2014 at 2:31 PM Rating: Good
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It's about establishing racial social assumptions among a target population so as to make certain types of political arguments easier to make in the future.

Welfare queens and furloughed prisoners do it all the time. Illegal immigrants, too.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a whore. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#233 Feb 05 2014 at 4:13 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
It's about establishing racial social assumptions among a target population so as to make certain types of political arguments easier to make in the future.

Welfare queens and furloughed prisoners do it all the time. Illegal immigrants, too.

And Coca-Cola commercials. Smiley: confused

Cross-thread shenanigans!
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#234 Feb 07 2014 at 8:15 PM Rating: Default
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Almalieque wrote:
I'm merely pointing out your failure to acknowledge any similarities than what you previously mentioned.


I'm failing to mistakenly think that the similarities between the two cases are more than minor and insignificant relative to their differences. Which makes me vastly more "right" than the people who keep making a point of saying "this is just like the Zimmerman case" or "here's how this case is similar to the Zimmerman case", when in reality the only reason they think that is because no one's putting the details of the hundreds of other gun related crimes that actually share more with either of those case in front of them.

If the only two meals you've ever eaten are steak and salad, you'll think that those are really similar too.

Quote:
My claim has nothing to do with race, hence why I didn't mention it.


Sure. But it's a good bet that if the victim hadn't been black and the shooter white (or at least labeled white), you would never have heard of Dunn in order to think "this is similar to the Zimmerman shooting". Get it? You only think so because you are ignorant of all of the other crimes which share more things in common with these two cases than these two do with each other.

Quote:
Nor was it about claiming that the two cases were exactly the same, hence why I didn't bother to counter your self-defense claim.


I never once said that anyone was claiming they were identical. I disagree with singling this case out and saying it's similar to the Zimmerman case not because it doesn't have *some* similarities, but because those similarities are incredibly minor and not worth singling out. Monkeys and Zebras share lots of similar features, but you'd never go to the zoo and pick just those two animals out of all of the other animals and make a point of saying they are similar.

I mean, they are in a very broad context. But so are lots of other random pairs of animals we could pick. So one would assume that the person making the statement really isn't commenting on any real significant similarities between Monkeys and Zebras, but that for some reason that person wants me to focus my attention on just the Monkeys and Zebras.

Quote:
My point was to show that they are more similar than what you claimed, hence why I mentioned the similarities.


And my point is that the reasons you think this and not that there are similarities between any of a long list of other cases out there is because someone wants you thinking about these cases, and not those other ones. They don't want you thinking about all the legitimate uses of self defense out there, which closely match the Zimmerman case (but just never got the public attention of that case). And they don't want you thinking about all the cases where it was the car full of black kids in the parking lot who decided to shoot the white couple who made the mistake of parking next to them. Or all the cases where two groups of black kids met up in a parking lot and it ended in gunfire and death.

They want you to not think about those, but instead focus on the rare cases that make it seem like there's some kind of scary trend of crazed white racists running around with guns targeting innocent black teens. Cause that happens all the time and we need to do something about it!

Way to be used though.

Quote:
I now understand why you claim that there were no similarities.


I never said there were no similarities. Sheesh!
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#235 Feb 07 2014 at 9:37 PM Rating: Excellent
gbaji wrote:
I never said there were no similarities. Sheesh!
earlier, gbaji wrote:
Other than a gun being involved, there's no other similarities at all.
Umm...I assume you have an obsidian razor to cut hairs that friggin' fine.
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#236 Feb 07 2014 at 9:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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But Bijou, they're different ages! Clearly that shows just how different the cases are.
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#237 Feb 07 2014 at 11:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Gbaji wrote:

I'm failing to mistakenly think that the similarities between the two cases are more than minor and insignificant relative to their differences. Which makes me vastly more "right" than the people who keep making a point of saying "this is just like the Zimmerman case" or "here's how this case is similar to the Zimmerman case", when in reality the only reason they think that is because no one's putting the details of the hundreds of other gun related crimes that actually share more with either of those case in front of them.

If the only two meals you've ever eaten are steak and salad, you'll think that those are really similar too.


Gbaji wrote:
Sure. But it's a good bet that if the victim hadn't been black and the shooter white (or at least labeled white), you would never have heard of Dunn in order to think "this is similar to the Zimmerman shooting". Get it? You only think so because you are ignorant of all of the other crimes which share more things in common with these two cases than these two do with each other.

That doesn't deny that there are more similarities than what you presented.

Gbaji wrote:
I never once said that anyone was claiming they were identical. I disagree with singling this case out and saying it's similar to the Zimmerman case not because it doesn't have *some* similarities, but because those similarities are incredibly minor and not worth singling out. Monkeys and Zebras share lots of similar features, but you'd never go to the zoo and pick just those two animals out of all of the other animals and make a point of saying they are similar.

I mean, they are in a very broad context. But so are lots of other random pairs of animals we could pick. So one would assume that the person making the statement really isn't commenting on any real significant similarities between Monkeys and Zebras, but that for some reason that person wants me to focus my attention on just the Monkeys and Zebras.

Gbaji wrote:

I never said there were no similarities. Sheesh!

You said the "Your ability to just bounce right back after being 100% wrong is admirable, I suppose." How am I 100% wrong unless I was arguing that they were 100% accurate?

If you say the only common traits between zebras and monkeys are that they have eyes, people would counter your claim to point out the other similar features.

Gbaji wrote:
And my point is that the reasons you think this and not that there are similarities between any of a long list of other cases out there is because someone wants you thinking about these cases, and not those other ones. They don't want you thinking about all the legitimate uses of self defense out there, which closely match the Zimmerman case (but just never got the public attention of that case). And they don't want you thinking about all the cases where it was the car full of black kids in the parking lot who decided to shoot the white couple who made the mistake of parking next to them. Or all the cases where two groups of black kids met up in a parking lot and it ended in gunfire and death.

They want you to not think about those, but instead focus on the rare cases that make it seem like there's some kind of scary trend of crazed white racists running around with guns targeting innocent black teens. Cause that happens all the time and we need to do something about it!

Way to be used though.
You're assuming that I made that initial comparison to begin with. You projected that unto me. Again, I was merely countering your claim of the only similarities between the two cases.I don't think that all murders of black teens are inherently the same, but I'm smart enough to know that there are more similarities than simply having a gun.





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#238 Feb 09 2014 at 10:28 AM Rating: Good
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Last night, I cut my brother-in-law's hair and ended up making him look like Zimmerman. He (my b-i-l) is half Ecuadorean, and also named George. I told him that at least now he can get away with shooting black kids.
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#239 Feb 10 2014 at 1:42 AM Rating: Good
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#240 Feb 10 2014 at 3:14 AM Rating: Good
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But you should never stick your **** in crazy so what's the point in that.
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Theophany wrote:
YOU'RE AN ELITIST @#%^ AETHIEN, NO WONDER YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS AND PEOPLE HATE YOU.
someproteinguy wrote:
Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
Astarin wrote:
One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
#241 Feb 10 2014 at 5:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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43,404 posts
You should always do that, but use an assumed name and in different places to make it tougher to track.
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George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#242 Feb 10 2014 at 10:08 AM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
11,589 posts
Still wouldn't try it. She'd probably keep the kid so they'd have your DNA, eventually track you down, and make you pay child support for the next 18 years.
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That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
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