Elinda wrote:
Driftwood wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Driftwood wrote:
Man, the US is really good at alienating its allies, eh? Spying, interfering in internal affairs, @#%^ing up peace talks. I wonder what crazy shenanigans the US will try next. I envy future historians and the fun they'll have debating this period in history.
Yeah cuz Obama invented espionage.
My comment didn't just apply to the current adinistration, it was intended to stretch at least as far back to some questionable decisions by the Clinton administration, and possibly, depending on how one views things, the H.W. Bush and Reagan administrations. I'm willing to let some, but not all of the stuff from earlier pass due to the necessitation of such caused by the Cold War,
So cold war spying was ok, but everything since then not ok?
It's all about the extent of the spying, and the reasons for it. With the Cold War, a lot was at stake, both sides had both legitimate and false beliefs and concerns about what the other side wanted to do and was doing, and most of the direct espionage campaigns they had going against each other were more or less justifiable. Although, even with that in mind, both sides went way too far with their interference in South America(mostly US), Central America(again, mostly US), and Africa(both, to the detriment of several African nations). What's happening these days is too far, and this is a prime example, although not quite espionage, the US military really just ****** up something that could have been a good thing. The spying being done today on leaders and citizens of allied countries and the citizens of their own country, is absolutely, and inarguably unjustifiable, and unethical.
Jophiel wrote:
Driftwood wrote:
Pakistan, who has been, honestly, fairly generous with their aid to that cause.
No they haven't. They've been bought every step of the way and have made massive concessions to the same organizations we're trying to defeat, have aided other terrorist groups they use towards their own ends, gave nuclear technology to Iran, N. Korea and Libya and almost certainly had government elements colluding to keep bin Laden hidden.
Quote:
Not to mention, the US should really try to be on the best of terms with any nuclear armed state
They lack the capacity to lob a weapon over the ocean. I guess they could always spread their nuclear weapons technology to other states if we're not nice enou--- oh, wait.
Great allies, there.
Good point, I'll admit that I don't know as much as I should have before posting about that relationship, and I made some assumptions. Some quick research proves your point, and I retract(in principle, but not actually editing my post) my previous statement.
someproteinguy wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Quote:
Not to mention, the US should really try to be on the best of terms with any nuclear armed state
They lack the capacity to lob a weapon over the ocean. I guess they could always spread their nuclear weapons technology to other states if we're not nice enou--- oh, wait.
Great allies, there.
We're just a pawn in their little regional conflict anyway. They'll juice for as much as they can while staying just important enough that we wouldn't want India to bomb them.
I honestly don't even think that there's much risk of that happening, even if the US didn't have a use for Pakistan, because India's government just doesn't seem crazy or dumb enough to start a war(that it might likely win due to sheer numbers, but I don't know the details of both nations' true military strength, and for all I know, Pakistan could be better armed).
Yeah cuz Obama invented espionage.