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very old school approach to PRFollow

#27 Oct 29 2013 at 8:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kavekk, you've been trying very hard lately and I've been just sort of ignoring it to be polite. But this whole thing you're trying to do isn't going to work. It's not "sticking" with me and I'm not feeling it. I'm just not that interested in having you be an internet sparring partner. I know, I'm around a lot so I guess you got interested but maybe someone else here would work for you. I don't know why it's there for some people and not there for others. I'm sorry, man. I hope we can still be friends.
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#28 Oct 29 2013 at 10:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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angrymnk wrote:
stuff
You can take some solace in the fact that despite the amount of time and effort they put into spying on everyone they don't seem to be very good it.
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#29 Oct 29 2013 at 10:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Kavekk, you've been trying very hard lately and I've been just sort of ignoring it to be polite. But this whole thing you're trying to do isn't going to work. It's not "sticking" with me and I'm not feeling it. I'm just not that interested in having you be an internet sparring partner. I know, I'm around a lot so I guess you got interested but maybe someone else here would work for you. I don't know why it's there for some people and not there for others. I'm sorry, man. I hope we can still be friends.


Are, are you seeing other Kavekkks? Kkavek is gone, he's not coming backk. But Kavekk is here, so maybe, just maybe you should workk on your relationship. Live in the present, ya know?
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#30 Oct 29 2013 at 10:59 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Kavekk, you've been trying very hard lately and I've been just sort of ignoring it to be polite. But this whole thing you're trying to do isn't going to work. It's not "sticking" with me and I'm not feeling it. I'm just not that interested in having you be an internet sparring partner. I know, I'm around a lot so I guess you got interested but maybe someone else here would work for you. I don't know why it's there for some people and not there for others. I'm sorry, man. I hope we can still be friends.


I'm just glad we can be so open with our feelings, Jophiel. For example, I feel that Catholicism is a towering edifice of idiot superstition.
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#31 Oct 29 2013 at 11:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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Oh, Kavekk. That wasn't an invitation. Smiley: frown
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#32 Oct 29 2013 at 11:18 AM Rating: Decent
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My argument is, and always has been really simple, if you let one organization that, apparently, can barely tell the truth by the body that is supposed to control it, gather information on everything, then that information will be used. It is just a question of time. What it will be used for, is another question altogether.

Yes, the only question, really. The question in Athens, in Babylon, in Byzantium, in Eden presumably. When people start disappearing, then be worried. The present circumstance has been the status quo for thousands of years. That is in no way an exaggeration.

But if there is anything I have learned in this life, it is that a) people don't listen b) it mildly satisfying to do "i told you so".

Jesus, who didn't listen? The only thing you should be saying is "you should see a neurologist" if you know people who thought the NSA was quietly observing laws and self limiting it's power.
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#33 Oct 29 2013 at 12:01 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Oh, Kavekk.


Woah, back up there, buddy. I'm not ready for that kind of commitment.

Speaking of commitment, all Catholics should be put in insane asylums, because they are all crazy.

Wow what a segue, seamless.
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#34 Oct 29 2013 at 4:47 PM Rating: Default
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Smasharoo wrote:
My argument is, and always has been really simple, if you let one organization that, apparently, can barely tell the truth by the body that is supposed to control it, gather information on everything, then that information will be used. It is just a question of time. What it will be used for, is another question altogether.

Yes, the only question, really. The question in Athens, in Babylon, in Byzantium, in Eden presumably. When people start disappearing, then be worried. The present circumstance has been the status quo for thousands of years. That is in no way an exaggeration.

But if there is anything I have learned in this life, it is that a) people don't listen b) it mildly satisfying to do "i told you so".

Jesus, who didn't listen? The only thing you should be saying is "you should see a neurologist" if you know people who thought the NSA was quietly observing laws and self limiting it's power.


I like how you moved the 'you should be worried' post from "when they use the information for non-NSL things" to "when people vanish". Can we just move the post to "Caligula level tyrant" enters the US political scene?

Btw. the sane response is: how about we don't?

And yes, only function of those in power is to gather more power. I don't think it is news to anyone. I am just annoyed this truism is routinely ignored in spite of thousands of years of history.

I thought of Stalin first, but for some reason it did not seem right.
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#35 Oct 29 2013 at 4:49 PM Rating: Default
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
Out of curiosity, what is your native language?


Creole?
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#36 Oct 30 2013 at 6:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Btw. the sane response is: how about we don't?

Great. How do you propose we convince people with power to intentionally put themselves at risk by avoiding information they have the capability to gather?
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#37 Oct 30 2013 at 6:13 PM Rating: Good
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Set up a protest like the Occupy movement! That always works so swimmingly!
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#38 Oct 30 2013 at 8:25 PM Rating: Default
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Smasharoo wrote:
Btw. the sane response is: how about we don't?

Great. How do you propose we convince people with power to intentionally put themselves at risk by avoiding information they have the capability to gather?


Do you propose we start wearing helmets for everything, including ,but not limited to, jerking off? Last time I checked all that information did not help stopping microwave bomber from Boston.

Come to think of it, the wholesale collection of everyone's data did not stop teh greatest threat of all... lowly sysadmin from just taking what he wanted and showing it to the world.

Maybe, just maybe, whole collection of data is not the answer? Maybe, just maybe, the fact that we can should not mean that we should. Don't believe me? Put your hand into a fire. You won't? Why not? You most certainly can.

On a more semi-serious note, my answer is eugenics. In a life of a politician improving of the gene pool means only one thing. Naturally, that includes engaged and mildly informed populace. Granted, it is not where we are today. Today, all you need is a meme on fb. I wish I was joking.

btw. Anyone knows what happened to Feinstein? I can't seem to find anything that would explain this sudden change of heart.
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#39 Oct 30 2013 at 8:57 PM Rating: Good
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Eugenics is an answer to some problems, but not the problem you are trying to solve.
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#40 Oct 30 2013 at 9:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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angrymnk wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:
Btw. the sane response is: how about we don't?

Great. How do you propose we convince people with power to intentionally put themselves at risk by avoiding information they have the capability to gather?


Do you propose we start wearing helmets for everything, including ,but not limited to, jerking off? Last time I checked all that information did not help stopping microwave bomber from Boston.

Come to think of it, the wholesale collection of everyone's data did not stop teh greatest threat of all... lowly sysadmin from just taking what he wanted and showing it to the world.

Maybe, just maybe, whole collection of data is not the answer? Maybe, just maybe, the fact that we can should not mean that we should. Don't believe me? Put your hand into a fire. You won't? Why not? You most certainly can.

On a more semi-serious note, my answer is eugenics. In a life of a politician improving of the gene pool means only one thing. Naturally, that includes engaged and mildly informed populace. Granted, it is not where we are today. Today, all you need is a meme on fb. I wish I was joking.

btw. Anyone knows what happened to Feinstein? I can't seem to find anything that would explain this sudden change of heart.
Which is all well and good, but it doesn't really answer Smash's question. How do you get the people collecting the data, and benefiting from the data, to stop? We could all agree with you completely and that'd hardly change a thing.
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#41 Oct 31 2013 at 5:20 PM Rating: Default
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someproteinguy wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:
Btw. the sane response is: how about we don't?

Great. How do you propose we convince people with power to intentionally put themselves at risk by avoiding information they have the capability to gather?


Do you propose we start wearing helmets for everything, including ,but not limited to, jerking off? Last time I checked all that information did not help stopping microwave bomber from Boston.

Come to think of it, the wholesale collection of everyone's data did not stop teh greatest threat of all... lowly sysadmin from just taking what he wanted and showing it to the world.

Maybe, just maybe, whole collection of data is not the answer? Maybe, just maybe, the fact that we can should not mean that we should. Don't believe me? Put your hand into a fire. You won't? Why not? You most certainly can.

On a more semi-serious note, my answer is eugenics. In a life of a politician improving of the gene pool means only one thing. Naturally, that includes engaged and mildly informed populace. Granted, it is not where we are today. Today, all you need is a meme on fb. I wish I was joking.

btw. Anyone knows what happened to Feinstein? I can't seem to find anything that would explain this sudden change of heart.
Which is all well and good, but it doesn't really answer Smash's question. How do you get the people collecting the data, and benefiting from the data, to stop? We could all agree with you completely and that'd hardly change a thing.


Hmm, I didn't? I thought I said something about improving the politician's pool as a good starting point. Do you propose we do nothing instead? My answer seems better than nothing.
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#42 Oct 31 2013 at 6:39 PM Rating: Decent
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angrymnk wrote:
And yes, only function of those in power is to gather more power. I don't think it is news to anyone. I am just annoyed this truism is routinely ignored in spite of thousands of years of history.


I think what folks are trying to say is that it's not about ignoring it, but accepting that the truism is true, and working to minimize the harmful effects. You institute the best system possible to minimize the most harmful aspects of authority, but you have to accept that at some point you have to trust someone with power. Blithely insisting that no one should have any power to do anything "bad" can only result in people actually deluding themselves about possible abuses of power. You're seeking an impossible standard, which can only appear to be met by those with power successfully lying to the population on a grand scale. And that's where power becomes really dangerous.

I'd rather we have a bunch of cynics that all know that our government spies on us, accepts this, but puts enough checks in place to ensure that the biggest harmful things aren't done (or aren't easily done), than one in which we're convinced that we're all secure in our freedom from intrusion on our privacy and thus make the mistake of thinking that's actually true. So when people say things like "yeah, of course our government collects data about us, but as long as they cant overtly use that data against us legally, and we're an open enough society that death camps aren't likely to start cropping up, I'm ok with that". In the grand scheme of "evil things our government could be doing", mass collecting meta data and social media is incredibly far down the list of things I worry about.

And I think most people, when they get over the initial outrage and think about the issue rationally, tend to arrive at the same conclusion.
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#43 Oct 31 2013 at 7:44 PM Rating: Good
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The issue is mostly information asymmetry. The NSA can spy on us all it wants but gets pretty touchy when their databases get probed.
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#44 Oct 31 2013 at 8:40 PM Rating: Good
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angrymnk wrote:
I thought I said something about improving the politician's pool as a good starting point.
They asked you for possible solutions, not wishing on magic unicorn rainbow farts.
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#45 Oct 31 2013 at 8:59 PM Rating: Good
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angrymnk wrote:
I thought I said something about improving the politician's pool as a good starting point.
Add bubbles.
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#46 Nov 01 2013 at 9:13 AM Rating: Default
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lolgaxe wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
I thought I said something about improving the politician's pool as a good starting point.
They asked you for possible solutions, not wishing on magic unicorn rainbow farts.


My apologies; I recognize that I am expected to quote aliens here, but...

Let me say this. It is a personal belief of mine that where is will, there is a way. And where is consensus, will can be found. What I am currently lacking is not magical rainbow farts. Those I get every day^^;
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#47 Nov 01 2013 at 9:14 AM Rating: Default
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gbaji wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
And yes, only function of those in power is to gather more power. I don't think it is news to anyone. I am just annoyed this truism is routinely ignored in spite of thousands of years of history.



I'd rather we have a bunch of cynics that all know that our government spies on us, accepts this, but puts enough checks in place to ensure that the biggest harmful things aren't done (or aren't easily done), than one in which we're convinced that we're all secure in our freedom from intrusion on our privacy and thus make the mistake of thinking that's actually true.

.


Are there enough checks? If not, why not?
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#48 Nov 01 2013 at 9:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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angrymnk wrote:
Hmm, I didn't? I thought I said something about improving the politician's pool as a good starting point. Do you propose we do nothing instead? My answer seems better than nothing.
That's debatable.
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#49 Nov 01 2013 at 9:29 AM Rating: Good
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angrymnk wrote:
gbaji wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
And yes, only function of those in power is to gather more power. I don't think it is news to anyone. I am just annoyed this truism is routinely ignored in spite of thousands of years of history.



I'd rather we have a bunch of cynics that all know that our government spies on us, accepts this, but puts enough checks in place to ensure that the biggest harmful things aren't done (or aren't easily done), than one in which we're convinced that we're all secure in our freedom from intrusion on our privacy and thus make the mistake of thinking that's actually true.

.


Are there enough checks? If not, why not?

I think there are not. I think our politicians are being too swayed by special interest. I doubt they'd agree.

My solution is not more checks on the power that is bestowed on our politicians, but reigning in some of that power and giving it back to the ignorant hoards. We can do that now. I want a voting widget.
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#50 Nov 01 2013 at 9:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
My solution is not more checks on the power that is bestowed on our politicians, but reigning in some of that power and giving it back to the ignorant hoards. We can do that now. I want a voting widget.

Giving espionage powers back to the ignorant hordes?
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#51 Nov 01 2013 at 9:43 AM Rating: Good
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The subject matter of this thread wandered into a dead zone and I lost track of it.

We already have espionage powers for the most part I guess. If one should want a megaton of digital tracking data it's there for the taking or buying.
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