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#1 Oct 09 2013 at 9:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Kochs specifically are saying straight out, they do not think the default is cool

"However, Koch has not taken a position on the legislative tactic of tying the continuing resolution to defunding Obamacare nor have we lobbied on legislative provisions defunding Obamacare."

Kochs are not exactly shy about their positions, but even they seem to see the insanity of our beloved speaker ( and the recently polled %5 congress approval rating ) and they probably don't want to see the pitchforks,

I find it all bemusing, because I thought I had it all figured out, but I guess no one controls the all powerful B ( 'cept minority of a minority ).

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#2 Oct 09 2013 at 11:51 PM Rating: Good
The Koch's paid for all these House Republicans to get into office & now that they're doing what they were paid to do they're upset - and you believe it?

I thought you were the local conspiracy nut!
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#3 Oct 10 2013 at 6:19 AM Rating: Default
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Omegavegeta wrote:
The Koch's paid for all these House Republicans to get into office & now that they're doing what they were paid to do they're upset - and you believe it?

I thought you were the local conspiracy nut!


Heh, short answer is yes; Kochs are mild ****** but it is not a secret what their opinion on anything is. You may be surprised, but most business owners tend to be more pragmatic than professional politicians.

Anyone here knows who is funding Cruz?
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#4 Oct 10 2013 at 6:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Omegavegeta wrote:
The Koch's paid for all these House Republicans to get into office & now that they're doing what they were paid to do they're upset - and you believe it?

Business leaders care more about the government running, not defaulting and the economy not imploding than they do about the ins-and-outs of Obamacare. They can live with the latter, less so a global economic collapse.
NYT wrote:
As the government shutdown grinds toward a potential debt default, some of the country’s most influential business executives have come to a conclusion all but unthinkable a few years ago: Their voices are carrying little weight with the House majority that their millions of dollars in campaign contributions helped build and sustain.
[...]
“We are looking at ways to counter the rise of an ideological brand of conservatism that, for lack of a better word, is more anti-establishment than it has been in the past,” said David French, the top lobbyist at the National Retail Federation. “We have come to the conclusion that sitting on the sidelines is not good enough.”

Some warned that a default could spur a shift in the relationship between the corporate world and the Republican Party. Long intertwined by mutual self-interest on deregulation and lower taxes, the business lobby and Republicans are diverging not only over the fiscal crisis, but on other major issues like immigration reform, which was favored by business groups and party leaders but stymied in the House by many of the same lawmakers now leading the debt fight.
[...]
“There clearly are people in the Republican Party at the moment for whom the business community and the interests of the business community — the jobs and members they represent — don’t seem to be their top priority,” said Dan Danner, the head of the National Federation of Independent Businesses, which spearheaded opposition to President Obama’s health care law among small businesses. “They don’t really care what the N.F.I.B. thinks, and don’t care what the Chamber thinks, and probably don’t care what the Business Roundtable thinks.”
[...]
[W]ith shutdown a reality, and the clock ticking toward default, some of those same executives now place the blame squarely on conservative Republicans in the House.

“It’s clearly this faction within the Republican Party that’s causing the issue right now,” said David M. Cote, the chief executive of Honeywell and a steering board member of Fix the Debt.
[...]
A spokeswoman for the National Association of Manufacturers, Erin Streeter, said the group had decided to sponsor a fund-raising event for Representative Mike Simpson, Republican of Idaho, who is among the 20 House Republicans who have said they will support a budget bill — or at least a temporary measure to reopen the government — without removing funds from the health care program. Mr. Simpson is facing a primary challenge from a more conservative, Tea Party-backed Republican.
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#5 Oct 10 2013 at 7:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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So the Republican party has lost its "pro-business" edge.

Part of me wonders if the Libertarians would like to take that title, but they're also too heavily intertwined with the Tea Party and far too focused on their self interests to care what happens to anyone else, business or government.
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#6 Oct 10 2013 at 7:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well, the business leaders have lost their edge with these Republicans. It's not as though they'd all go elsewhere any more than the environmental groups will become Republicans over the Keystone pipeline. The business groups will just be more selective and try to oust the Tea Party extremists during the primaries by supporting Republicans with a more pro-business bent.
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#7 Oct 10 2013 at 8:32 AM Rating: Decent
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They can live with the latter, less so a global economic collapse.

I'm not sure who started selling default as that, but it's probably a bad idea. I would harm the economy, it almost certainly wouldn't be an event like Lehman disintegrating. If we get there and the sky doesn't fall (it wouldn't) there's going to be a lot of lost credibility.
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#8 Oct 10 2013 at 8:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:
I'm not sure who started selling default as that, but it's probably a bad idea.

Well, the financial sector is saying it. I'll be the first to admit that I'm completely out of my depth to debate it and will leave it to the economic policy wonks to argue but it seems to be the conventional wisdom from everyone except some branches of the GOP.
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#9 Oct 10 2013 at 9:20 AM Rating: Good
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I think the issue is that US Treasury bonds were always considered the "safe haven" for funds in an era of fiscal uncertainty. Stock markets all wibbly? Call your 401(k) dude and tell him to shift you over to T-Bonds. You'll make less money, but you won't lose anything either.

A default would make the save havens of T-Bonds suddenly seem a lot less safe.
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Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest on Lamia - Member of The Swarm and leader of Grammarian Tea House chat LS
#10 Oct 10 2013 at 4:37 PM Rating: Default
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Smasharoo wrote:
They can live with the latter, less so a global economic collapse.

I'm not sure who started selling default as that, but it's probably a bad idea. I would harm the economy, it almost certainly wouldn't be an event like Lehman disintegrating. If we get there and the sky doesn't fall (it wouldn't) there's going to be a lot of lost credibility.


You are right in the sense that the issue overblown and a sky will not fall, but making it smaller than Lehman is a little much. For one, the money that may or may not be lost due to the music stopping could easily top it.


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#11 Oct 11 2013 at 7:48 PM Rating: Default
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Let's also not forget that failing to raise the debt ceiling doesn't actually mean we default. It means we can't borrow additional money. The IRS takes in something like 15 times more money each month than the government must pay in interest on our existing debt. So if we default, it's because someone chose to spend money on other things instead of paying that interest.

The real danger from failing to raise the debt ceiling is the sudden and complete requirement to spend only what is taken in. If you think a government shut down is bad, this would be much worse. In the current shutdown, it's more or less an arbitrary distinction in terms of what is necessary and what isn't. If we hit the debt limit, it's a hard number of dollars that can be spent, and there's no wiggle room.
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#12 Oct 11 2013 at 8:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
So if we default, it's because someone chose to spend money on other things instead of paying that interest.

Thank God the only monetary obligation the government has is interest payments, huh?
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
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