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#27 Aug 29 2013 at 3:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Learning cursive is mandatory? I never really learned it until high school when my german teacher wrote in it exclusively. It was "taught" for about 10 minutes in third grade or whatever, but i never learned it. Fortunately most letters are basically the same, so reading it is manageable without any previous knowledge, but it takes me much much longer to read than regular print. I have never been able to write cursive.
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#28 Aug 29 2013 at 3:26 PM Rating: Good
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My cursive was better than my print for many years.

Now that I type primarily, they're both rotten.

I'm in the 'teach people to read it but not necessarily to write it any more' camp. That's easy enough to do with some fancy fonts in Word.

Edited, Aug 29th 2013 5:26pm by Catwho
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#29 Aug 29 2013 at 3:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Cursive is one of those things that probably should have been eliminated decades ago, but continued to be taught, more or less out of the assumption that each generation should know how to read/write it because the last generation was. It hasn't actually served a purpose since the invention of the ball point pen. I don't think it was as big a deal until computers came along and everyone started communicating with type rather than by hand. But yeah, now's a great opportunity to put the whole thing to bed IMO.
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#30 Aug 29 2013 at 6:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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It probably has some benefits. I have no idea if it has enough to justify the cost.

I used to write in a fine, even script. Now I can barely decipher my own scratchings. Ah, well.
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#31 Aug 29 2013 at 6:46 PM Rating: Good
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I say split the difference and make them learn Fraktur.
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#32 Aug 29 2013 at 7:06 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm all for learning cursive. When I write by hand, I use a combination of print and cursive and I think it's much faster than simply writing in print and less intensive than cursive writing. I'm less concerned about cursive writing and more concerned about the fact that we don't fully use the metric system. At least cursive writing is used in other countries.
#33 Aug 29 2013 at 7:11 PM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
When I write by hand, I use a combination of print and cursive write sloppy because it's faster.
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#34 Aug 29 2013 at 7:15 PM Rating: Default
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TirithRR wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
When I write by hand, I use a combination of print and cursive write sloppy because it's faster.


? I guarantee if you look at your own hand writing, you will see elements of both. (if you were taught both). People naturally loop their p's, q's, etc. out of habit.
#35 Aug 29 2013 at 7:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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That's not what makes cursive cursive though. The point of cursive is to write with a minimum amount of lifting the pen tip from the page. It developed out of the necessity of dealing with ink quills back before we had things like ball point pens. The quill was dipped in ink, with the surface tension of the ink drawn into the narrow quill tip holding it in place until you touched it to the paper. But once touched down, you had to keep it on the page as much as possible until the ink was expended or you'd get drops all over the place. In cursive each letter should flow into the next letter allowing you to minimize the number of times you might have to lift the quill from the paper between dipping for more ink. Simply putting a bit more curve or loop into letters while still separating them from each other has nothing to do with writing in cursive.

Obviously, since no one has used quills and ink pots to write for the better part of a century, it's long past time we got rid of cursive. It was not developed to be easier to read (cause it's not), nor to be faster to write (cause it's not). We continued to use it even after modern pens were invented more out of inertia than anything else. As long as we were still writing by hand, why not continue to teach people to write in the same style? There wasn't a super need to change. But now that nearly all correspondence is done by typing, I don't think we need to teach kids how to write anything other than print characters.

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#36 Aug 29 2013 at 8:24 PM Rating: Default
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Gbaji wrote:
That's not what makes cursive cursive though. The point of cursive is to write with a minimum amount of lifting the pen tip from the page.

...

In cursive each letter should flow into the next letter allowing you to minimize the number of times you might have to lift the quill from the paper between dipping for more ink.


Exactly. I made the assumption that you would connect the two together. Take the word "together". If I were to write it, I would continue the loop from the "g" to the letter "e"; likewise with the letters "h" and "e". If you look at your handwriting, I'm sure that you probably do the same thing. It's no different than your signature. People don't always use the cursive letter for every letter in their name (if it's even a letter).

Gbaji wrote:
I don't think we need to teach kids how to write anything other than print characters.


You wouldn't be embarrassed if you, or your child, weren't able to read cursive in a group of people that could? I would rather focus on the Metric system rather than cursive writing.
#37 Aug 29 2013 at 8:44 PM Rating: Good
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The only time my letters blend together is when I'm using one of those stupid gel pens and it leaks. I may double over on a letter P, d, b, etc and end up making the upright portion look like a loop, but my letters are still separate. And my signature is pretty just just a bunch of scribbles these days. Occasionally it looks like the cursive leters, but most of the time it's just "up down up down up down up down slash"
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#38 Aug 29 2013 at 9:50 PM Rating: Decent
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I say split the difference and make them learn Fraktur.

I did calligraphy as a hobby when I was younger, for about three days.
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#39 Aug 29 2013 at 9:51 PM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
When I write by hand, I use a combination of print and cursive write sloppy because it's faster.


? I guarantee if you look at your own hand writing, you will see elements of both. (if you were taught both). People naturally loop their p's, q's, etc. out of habit.

Nope.
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#40 Aug 29 2013 at 11:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Debalic wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
When I write by hand, I use a combination of print and cursive write sloppy because it's faster.


? I guarantee if you look at your own hand writing, you will see elements of both. (if you were taught both). People naturally loop their p's, q's, etc. out of habit.

Nope.


Maybe not you, but there is a noticeable number of people. I used to think that I had a "unique handwriting", until I start studying how people write. I noticed that people indeed loop their letters into the following letter because it's easier and more convenient than having to lift up your hand. That isn't true for all letters or all people, but definitely for some, especially signatures.
#41 Aug 29 2013 at 11:37 PM Rating: Decent
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TirithRR wrote:
And my signature is pretty just just a bunch of scribbles these days. Occasionally it looks like the cursive leters, but most of the time it's just "up down up down up down up down slash"
I used to at least start with an R to sign my name. Not anymore though; it's just scribbles.

I do however connect some of my letters when writing, as alma is talking about. Particular with e, l, i, and t. It's pretty silly when i write "little" in cursive but nothing else Smiley: laugh
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#42 Aug 30 2013 at 5:41 AM Rating: Good
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This thread is giving me culture shock.
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#43 Aug 30 2013 at 6:11 AM Rating: Good
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If I do have to write anything beyond a shopping list, I typically use script. It's faster and funner.
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#44 Aug 30 2013 at 7:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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TirithRR wrote:
Occasionally it looks like the cursive leters, but most of the time it's just "up down up down up down up down slash"
Mine has gone full Parkinson's.
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#45 Aug 30 2013 at 8:11 AM Rating: Good
My cursive is bad. I don't remember a handful of letter, or the right way to connect them.
I hate reading cursive, as a "personal" style makes each person's cursive different.
When I was in school it was taught in 3rd grade, and we had to write in it up until I was in the 7th grade. Once in Jr.High and we had to start taking notes for different classes, the teachers didn't care. It was our notes.

I do still sign my name is cursive. My signature, something I hate to look at, looks like that 3rd grader who learned how to write his name Smiley: glare

To the OP poll: Maybe teach it, to learn how to read it, but not force it.

Edited, Aug 30th 2013 9:12am by Sandinmygum
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#46 Aug 30 2013 at 8:22 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah. I had given up on my signature. Then I got a job where my signature would sometimes be on things. I pretty much spent four hours training my hand to make it look presentable, scanned it in, and now digitally attach it wherever possible.

For times where that isn't possible... I just block those out.
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#47 Aug 30 2013 at 6:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Almalieque wrote:
Gbaji wrote:
I don't think we need to teach kids how to write anything other than print characters.


You wouldn't be embarrassed if you, or your child, weren't able to read cursive in a group of people that could?


Well, I was talking about what we teach them to write, not what we teach them to read, but honestly if cursive is written clearly, reading it isn't an issue, even for someone who's never been taught it. As pointed out above, the issue with reading cursive is that most people don't write it clearly, so it's hard to read even if you've been taught it and used it all your life. Someone who's never been taught to read or write anything but printed letters, upon being exposed to something typeset in cursive should be able to make it out just fine. It's not like the letters are not still recognizable (with a couple minor exceptions which should be easy to adjust for when reading).
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#48 Aug 30 2013 at 6:42 PM Rating: Default
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gbaji wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
Gbaji wrote:
I don't think we need to teach kids how to write anything other than print characters.


You wouldn't be embarrassed if you, or your child, weren't able to read cursive in a group of people that could?


Well, I was talking about what we teach them to write, not what we teach them to read, but honestly if cursive is written clearly, reading it isn't an issue, even for someone who's never been taught it. As pointed out above, the issue with reading cursive is that most people don't write it clearly, so it's hard to read even if you've been taught it and used it all your life. Someone who's never been taught to read or write anything but printed letters, upon being exposed to something typeset in cursive should be able to make it out just fine. It's not like the letters are not still recognizable (with a couple minor exceptions which should be easy to adjust for when reading).


OP wrote:
The issue sort of grabbed some attention when one of the Trayvon Martin witnesses was unable to read a note written in cursive.


I was in reference to this. As long as stuff is still written in cursive, we should teach students how to write in cursive and give them the option if they want to forget it or not. Given the amount of time we spend in school, I'm sure there is plenty of time that can be devoted to cursive writing with no loss towards anything else.
#49 Aug 30 2013 at 7:15 PM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
OP wrote:
The issue sort of grabbed some attention when one of the Trayvon Martin witnesses was unable to read a note written in cursive.


I was in reference to this. As long as stuff is still written in cursive, we should teach students how to write in cursive and give them the option if they want to forget it or not. Given the amount of time we spend in school, I'm sure there is plenty of time that can be devoted to cursive writing with no loss towards anything else.


Given her age while still in high school, I have a sneaking suspicion that her inability to read the letter wasn't just because it was written in cursive. There was presumably a reason why she dictated it to someone else to write rather than write it herself. And, as a couple of us have pointed out, difficulty in reading cursive has less to do with whether someone has learned to write it, as whether the specific thing you are reading was written in clear cursive. Anyone with a reasonable reading capability should be able to read cursive, even if they've never been taught to write it. The letters just aren't that different.
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#50 Aug 30 2013 at 7:49 PM Rating: Default
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gbaji wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
OP wrote:
The issue sort of grabbed some attention when one of the Trayvon Martin witnesses was unable to read a note written in cursive.


I was in reference to this. As long as stuff is still written in cursive, we should teach students how to write in cursive and give them the option if they want to forget it or not. Given the amount of time we spend in school, I'm sure there is plenty of time that can be devoted to cursive writing with no loss towards anything else.


Given her age while still in high school, I have a sneaking suspicion that her inability to read the letter wasn't just because it was written in cursive. There was presumably a reason why she dictated it to someone else to write rather than write it herself. And, as a couple of us have pointed out, difficulty in reading cursive has less to do with whether someone has learned to write it, as whether the specific thing you are reading was written in clear cursive. Anyone with a reasonable reading capability should be able to read cursive, even if they've never been taught to write it. The letters just aren't that different.


I understand, but that doesn't take away from my point in teaching it in school. It doesn't take that much time to teach it, allow the students to forget it if they choose not to use it.
#51 Aug 30 2013 at 8:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah. I had given up on my signature. Then I got a job where my signature would sometimes be on things. I pretty much spent four hours training my hand to make it look presentable

Type your name underneath is like a normal person? Anyone I know who worked anywhere they had to sign for many things (including me) has a signature that's basically, at most, 2 legible letters and a line.
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