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#52 Aug 21 2013 at 10:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
When they all have state-funded PhD's will we stop profiling black men in the street and shuffling them off to prison.
Getting everyone a college education worked out well. Now you have people with 4 year degrees working at Target, while paying off tens of thousands of dollars in student loans. What we really need is for everyone to get a PhD, so they can work at Target while paying off hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans.

For 99.9% of people I'll stick with the once trailer trash, always trailer trash thing. Black population is there in higher proportion because firstly there are people who stereotype and stack the deck against them, and secondly because there were 100s of years of selection for people who could survive our wonderful slave institution. Those traits don't help in modern society.

Educate people, help people, feed them, whatever poison you prefer. You'll still end up with a percentage of the population in the same boat. You can't make someone less fit for society any better, you can only hope to pick a few diamonds out of the rough.

Was that controversial enough? If not I can go back and sprinkle more in. Smiley: lol
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#53 Aug 21 2013 at 10:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Well, I'm only 23. I still have about 2 friends from when I was 14.
Give it another 10 years, they'll be all but gone. Smiley: wink
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#54 Aug 21 2013 at 10:14 AM Rating: Decent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Now you have people with 4 year degrees working at Target, while paying off tens of thousands of dollars in student loans.
Sure, but how many of them took Dead Languages or something equally as useless as a major?
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#55 Aug 21 2013 at 10:27 AM Rating: Good
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#56 Aug 21 2013 at 10:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Now you have people with 4 year degrees working at Target, while paying off tens of thousands of dollars in student loans.
Sure, but how many of them took Dead Languages or something equally as useless as a major?
Way way too many, poor souls... Smiley: disappointed

Of course putting along and getting your C-average isn't going to land you a job in your field either. In that case you might as well take what you'd like that way you at least have the degree, and you can get the Target job over someone who only weaseled their way through 2 years of college. Smiley: rolleyes
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#57 Aug 21 2013 at 10:31 AM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Now you have people with 4 year degrees working at Target, while paying off tens of thousands of dollars in student loans.
Sure, but how many of them took Dead Languages or something equally as useless as a major?


To be fair, it's not that easy anymore. The degrees that actually have market demand are getting inundated with applicants, to the point where some of them have far WORSE employment rates than the degrees not much in demand at all.

For instance, business majors have unemployment rates just .1% better than the national average, which is over 1.5% higher than the average for people with degrees.

Comp Sci, in demand, is at 8.7%. But History, not in demand, is at a 9.5%.

General engineering is 7%, but Early Childhood Educations is 5%. And agriculture is at 6.1%.

All based on this Huffington Post article, though.

Honestly, with rare exceptions, having a degree is the deciding factor nowadays. EVERYONE starts at entry level. Once upon a time, college was a way to zoom past entry level. Nowadays, it's a way to get your foot in the door. That's easier with an <insert degree>. But short of specific jobs like Engineering positions, most companies don't really care what your degree is in. You're still probably not getting an interview unless you know someone in the company.
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#58 Aug 21 2013 at 10:38 AM Rating: Decent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
To be fair, it's not that easy anymore.
While I agree, I also don't feel people who took Underwater Basketweaving should be allowed to ***** about paying back their loans. At least not without it being allowed for everyone within hearing distance to kidney punch them.
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#59 Aug 21 2013 at 10:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
To be fair, it's not that easy anymore.
While I agree, I also don't feel people who took Underwater Basketweaving should be allowed to ***** about paying back their loans.
It's a good start to a lifetime of quality decision making. Smiley: rolleyes

Really if 15% of the people in your major get a job in the field when they graduate, and you aren't in the top 15% (or so) of your class you'd think a light bulb would go off or something.

Edited, Aug 21st 2013 9:57am by someproteinguy
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#60 Aug 21 2013 at 11:12 AM Rating: Good
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Underwater basket weaving doesn't really exist. At least I couldn't find it at any of the colleges I checked.

I took an intro to art class though where I learned basket weaving. It was quite a handy skill for a poor college student. My relatives all got cheesy hand-made baskets that x-mas.
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#61 Aug 21 2013 at 11:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
Underwater basket weaving doesn't really exist.
Reed College in Portland, Oregon, though it's a non-credit course. University of Arizona offers Submerged Snorkeling Basket Weaving once.
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#62 Aug 21 2013 at 11:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Reed College in Portland, Oregon, though it's a non-credit course.
Ironically a degree from Reed is probably enough to offset any negative from a basket weaving course.

Prospects are even better if you drop out altogether, so I hear... Smiley: rolleyes
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#63 Aug 21 2013 at 11:43 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:

Educate people, help people, feed them, whatever poison you prefer. You'll still end up with a percentage of the population in the same boat. You can't make someone less fit for society any better, you can only hope to pick a few diamonds out of the rough.

Was that controversial enough? If not I can go back and sprinkle more in. Smiley: lol
Are we assuming then that black people are, via genetics or something, more than twice as likely to be unfit for our society?


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#64 Aug 21 2013 at 11:57 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Although, I'd wager you're the exception, not the rule. How many of your friends from when you were 13-14 are in the same position as you now?
How many of us have kept in touch with precisely nobody we were friends with at 13-14?
If we're using personal experience as the baseline, then I'm free to ask this question, as I'm up to speed on about 70% of them.
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#65 Aug 21 2013 at 12:00 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Are we assuming then that black people are, via genetics or something, more than twice as likely to be unfit for our society?
Not quite, the idea that there's a degree of racism (or at minimum passive intolerance and stereotyping) certainly factors in as well. Also not unfit in way that's unique to a race or anything but unfit the same way as the stereotypical man is fairly unfit for today's society. There was a point in our history where brawn was a great trait to have. Work was mostly manual. Strength was an exceptional trait, fearlessness and intimidation could help keep your family safe. The world was a different place back then.

Nowadays there aren't any wolves at the door, we killed them off and sent the remaining few to National parks. A 14 year old girl can be just as deadly with a gun as a 240lb muscular adult male (or at least a lot closer than it used to be). Robots do most of the heavy lifting. Brains and social skills are more likely to lead to success than the ability to scare off people and lift heavy objects.

Should we be surprised that a subset of the population put through an artificial bottleneck where the ability to do physical labor was a necessity would have a greater proportion of people who are good at physical labor. Also, now they are not as well off in a society that doesn't reward that labor as heavily as it used to? I'm suspect even if we remove any semblance of racism you'd still have a greater number of blacks unemployed for that reason. The same reason you see those football players from high school all doing menial jobs, while those smart nerdy kids they bullied back in the day are making money in excess.
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#66 Aug 21 2013 at 12:34 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:

Should we be surprised that a subset of the population put through an artificial bottleneck where the ability to do physical labor was a necessity would have a greater proportion of people who are good at physical labor.
The chart in the op doesn't support that the decline in manual labor jobs has had any impact on the ratio of unemployed blacks to whites.
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I'm suspect even if we remove any semblance of racism you'd still have a greater number of blacks unemployed for that reason. The same reason you see those football players from high school all doing menial jobs, while those smart nerdy kids they bullied back in the day are making money in excess.
Wow.

Are there statistics that support school athletes going on to have higher unemployment than non-athletes?






Edited, Aug 21st 2013 8:34pm by Elinda
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#67 Aug 21 2013 at 12:37 PM Rating: Good
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Statistics? Wtf?!?! I thought we already established that personal experience and extrapolating that as the norm was enough in this thread.
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#68 Aug 21 2013 at 12:40 PM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Statistics? Wtf?!?! I thought we already established that personal experience and extrapolating that as the norm was enough in this thread.

Spg is a guru. He must be held to higher standards. Smiley: wink

Lol @ nerd fantasies.

Edited, Aug 21st 2013 8:42pm by Elinda
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#69 Aug 21 2013 at 12:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:

Should we be surprised that a subset of the population put through an artificial bottleneck where the ability to do physical labor was a necessity would have a greater proportion of people who are good at physical labor.
The chart in the op doesn't support that the decline in manual labor jobs has had any impact on the ratio of unemployed blacks to whites.
It's doesn't preclude it either if we want to get picky. Maybe it was offset by a decrease in racism over time? People today still have a long way to go, but are largely more tolerant than they were 100 years ago.

Elinda wrote:
Quote:
I'm suspect even if we remove any semblance of racism you'd still have a greater number of blacks unemployed for that reason. The same reason you see those football players from high school all doing menial jobs, while those smart nerdy kids they bullied back in the day are making money in excess.
Wow.

Are there statistics that support school athletes going on to have higher unemployment than non-athletes?
I'd actually be interested if there was a correlation between say which sport you did, and what your future income was. For example the cross-country teams tended year-in and year-out to have the highest GPA of any sports teams in my school, and football was consistently among the worst performers. So far google has found nothing Smiley: frown (though I haven't tried much yet admittedly... ).
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#70 Aug 21 2013 at 12:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Statistics? Wtf?!?! I thought we already established that personal experience and extrapolating that as the norm was enough in this thread.
I know right? What's this world coming to when we can't just pull numbers out of our *** and pretend their God's word.

Heathens. Smiley: disappointed
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#71 Aug 21 2013 at 12:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
For example the cross-country teams tended year-in and year-out to have the highest GPA of any sports teams in my school, and football was consistently among the worst performers.
That's because most of the cross-country teams were the nerds being chased in school by the football team.
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#72 Aug 21 2013 at 12:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
For example the cross-country teams tended year-in and year-out to have the highest GPA of any sports teams in my school, and football was consistently among the worst performers.
That's because most of the cross-country teams were the nerds being chased in school by the football team.
Well with all that practice what did you expect us to do? That's like free college money there by doing something we were already doing. Smiley: wink
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#73 Aug 21 2013 at 1:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
Underwater basket weaving doesn't really exist. At least I couldn't find it at any of the colleges I checked.

I took an intro to art class though where I learned basket weaving. It was quite a handy skill for a poor college student. My relatives all got cheesy hand-made baskets that x-mas.


Rutgers did. Smiley: lol
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#74 Aug 21 2013 at 2:22 PM Rating: Decent
Elinda wrote:
Are blacks not allowed to bus on into town and work at the whitey factory?
As long as the bus goes to Mexico, or wherever the factory went, yes.

Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
We moved off the rez when I was in the 5th grade.
Wait, what? What rez was that?

someproteinguy wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Well, I'm only 23. I still have about 2 friends from when I was 14.
Give it another 10 years, they'll be all but gone. Smiley: wink
I'm 47 and still see 2 friends from when I was 13. But then, I still live in the same town.
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#75 Aug 21 2013 at 2:23 PM Rating: Good
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Friar Bijou wrote:
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
We moved off the rez when I was in the 5th grade.
Wait, what? What rez was that?


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#76 Aug 21 2013 at 6:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:
Do you honestly disagree that children raised in households dependent on welfare are more likely to end out on welfare themselves when they grow up?

Of course they are. There is virtually no class mobility in the US.


There is plenty of class mobility in the US. Just very little of it occurs within the poorest neighborhoods. If you're born in a working class neighborhood with not a lot of wealth around, but most people having jobs that provide a modest living, your odds of improving your situation is significantly higher than if you're born in a poor neighborhood with a high percentage of unemployed people living on government assistance.

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The idea that welfare is the cause of that is absolutely moronic.


No. It's not. Welfare creates a virtual class wall around the areas where it it most applied. Once a community reaches a critical mass of welfare recipients within it, the odds of the community recovering are more or less zero, and the odds of anyone born into that community escaping it aren't much better.

Meanwhile, everyone else lives in a sea of opportunity where you absolutely can change your life (for better or worse) based on your own actions and abilities.

Quote:
What's the cause of wealthy children ending up wealthy? Hard work and talent, right?


They are more likely to work hard and become talented, if for no other reason that they see all around them the fruits of hard work and talent. When you live in a ghetto where everyone is out of work, everyone subsists on government assistance, and no one is a success story, it's kinda hard to develop a "I can accomplish whatever I want" attitude.

Being born to a wealthy family by no means guarantees success either btw. Just as being born to a poor family does not guarantee poverty later in life. But there are marked outcome differences between them, and I think that what's moronic is the assumption that the children of wealthy families succeed purely because of the money they possess. It's vastly more likely to be about the environment their kids grow up in than the number of dollars in the bank account.

Quote:
Black unemployment and poverty can really only be caused by one of two things: Institutional racism on a national scale or a genetic predisposition towards criminality and laziness.


I disagree that those are the only two possibilities. I think that some have tried really really hard to frame the problem in this way so as to avoid examining the negative effects of their own pet social projects, but at what point do we stop casting about for some mysterious "institutionalized racism" and start looking at what's right in front of us.


I guess I just don't get why some people have such a knee jerk and emotional response to the idea that by providing assistance to people we ****** their ability to provide for themselves. And when we do that on a large enough scale in concentrated areas (or even intentionally concentrate the recipients of that assistance in those areas), we create a massive generational poverty problem. And guess what? If the color of the skin of the people we've done that to just happen to be black more often than white, why are we surprised that this shows up in social statistics comparing black versus white outcomes?
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#77 Aug 21 2013 at 6:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Cause I just can't pass this one up:

Elinda wrote:
Are blacks not allowed to bus on into town and work at the whitey factory?



Interesting that in one thread, the need to maybe have to travel 3 miles once in your lifetime to get an ID is an insurmountable obstacle to voting, but in this thread the need to travel possibly quite a bit farther every day to go to work isn't a problem at all. Hmmmm...

Edited, Aug 21st 2013 5:31pm by gbaji
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#78 Aug 21 2013 at 7:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, not all areas are equally served by mass transit.

What a corker, huh? Hmmmm....
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#79 Aug 21 2013 at 7:46 PM Rating: Good
Sounds like Gbaji is calling for the black/brown people to all move to the suburbs. Good idea!
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#80 Aug 21 2013 at 8:07 PM Rating: Default
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Gbaji wrote:
Interesting that in one thread, the need to maybe have to travel 3 miles once in your lifetime to get an ID is an insurmountable obstacle to voting, but in this thread the need to travel possibly quite a bit farther every day to go to work isn't a problem at all. Hmmmm...


Your concept of contradiction is one way.

The fact that one would have to take a bus to another city to work contributes to unemployment.
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#81 Aug 21 2013 at 8:46 PM Rating: Default
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Gbaji is on the right track.

Welfare systems have concentrated blacks into specific communities within urban areas thanks wholly to section 8 housing. This program has created whole ghettos where the population of said neighborhood is almost if not completely Black. Combine this with rampant drug smuggling (also caused by government), crime, the lack of jobs in the area, and you've got what we see today: generational poverty.

That and I think there's something going on in the Black community and it is caused by a mostly outside force. Some postulate that force is society at large and others propose that government is the problem (I'm in that camp). Almost every single statistic is absolutely dismal compared to any other racial group: single parents, divorce rates, unemployment rates, incarceration rates, crime rates, etc.

I'll cede that there is no easy solution and any solution would likely take generations to effectively measure. Unfortunately for the Black Community government has a 4 - 8 year attention span; not nearly long enough to study generational effects of a given action.

-NW
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#82 Aug 21 2013 at 8:57 PM Rating: Decent
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I disagree that those are the only two possibilities. I think that some have tried really really hard to frame the problem in this way so as to avoid examining the negative effects of their own pet social projects, but at what point do we stop casting about for some mysterious "institutionalized racism" and start looking at what's right in front of us.

What's "right in front of us" is that CONTROLLED FOR SOCIOECONOMIC STATUS black unemployment is dramatically higher than white unemployment, or of any other race the government keeps statistics for. Many many sigmas outside of statistical variance. So, it's not the welfare system that's the problem in this case. Let me repeat that, it is not the welfare system that is the problem. This one subgroup has a harder time finding work than any other. So, what could be the cause of that? It could be a cultural issue, but "black" isn't a culturally heterogeneous group any more than "white" is. Neither is "black on welfare". Nothing else correlates as strongly as race for employment prospects in the US. Nothing. If you know nothing about the research, I'm sure it feels better to assume "sure, but blacks also have a lower median income so that's the problem" or "blacks have a lower highest education point so that's the problem" or "black role models infer status from criminal activity instead of work ethic" etc etc ad infinitum. You can statistically control for these factors. There's been a mountainous amount of research done on this. I'm not making a false choice for you flippantly, those really are, overwhelmingly, the two most likely possibilities for this anomaly.

It's not impossible, or frankly, even that unlikely that there is a genetic factor involved if it's actually the case that racism isn't the driving force. Distasteful as fuck, yes, but it's idiotic to just rule out something because we don't want it to be the case. People who have Down's Syndrome probably don't make great physicists, generally. I don't think it's particularly stigmatizing to note that they also share appearance cues. Personally, I find it pretty obvious that it's racism, but if one were making the case that racism was a minor factor for black people in American life, then there's really only one alternative. When one segment of a population is as underemployed, is imprisoned dramatically more, and has such a massive wealth disparity either there's systemic bias against that segment or that segment is failing due to some inadequacy. When the segment's identifying characteristic is genetic, the cause almost certainly is as well.

If you want to say "racism isn't the problem" when blacks have 20% unemployment, then you have to some other rationale for the disparity. I'm telling you what logic dictates that most likely is. What you can't defend as an argument is "racism isn't the problem, the problem is <something unrelated to being black that we can show data for where other groups don't share the same problems>".

Edited, Aug 21st 2013 11:01pm by Smasharoo
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#83 Aug 21 2013 at 9:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Unfortunately for the Black Community government has a 4 - 8 year attention span; not nearly long enough to study generational effects of a given action.

Right. There's been no work done on generational poverty. Sociology and Public Policy don't exist as academic disciplines. It's all a big mystery, but what we're absolutely certain of is that it is in no way related to how those with power view black people because of their skin color. DEFINITELY not that.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#84 Aug 21 2013 at 9:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think thats the first time ever for Smasharoo to use a colored font.

There's a font racists joke in there somewhere, but I'm not going there.
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#85 Aug 21 2013 at 9:09 PM Rating: Default
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Smasharoo wrote:

Right. There's been no work done on generational poverty. Sociology and Public Policy don't exist as academic disciplines. It's all a big mystery, but what we're absolutely certain of is that it is in no way related to how those with power view black people because of their skin color. DEFINITELY not that.


Cut the cake any way you want, for the better part of 50 years government programs have been implemented and in spite of the literally hundreds of leftist programs, billions dumped into it, and countless man hours spent, the poverty situation has not changed for Blacks and only a fool would believe another big government leftist program will fix the situation.

-NW
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#86 Aug 21 2013 at 9:10 PM Rating: Good
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NaughtyWord wrote:
only a fool would believe another big government leftist program will fix the situation.
Hire them to pass out Voter ID Cards.
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#87 Aug 21 2013 at 9:15 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
NaughtyWord wrote:
only a fool would believe another big government leftist program will fix the situation.
Hire them to pass out Voter ID Cards.



An equally terrible idea. The last thing we need is to give the government another list some low-level ******* can put on a geek stick and lose.

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#88 Aug 21 2013 at 9:19 PM Rating: Excellent
gbaji wrote:
Being born to a wealthy family by no means guarantees success either btw.
It does pretty much guarantee being rich, though.

gbaji wrote:
Interesting that in one thread, the need to maybe have to travel 3 miles once in your lifetime to get an ID is an insurmountable obstacle to voting, but in this thread the need to travel possibly quite a bit farther every day to go to work isn't a problem at all. Hmmmm...
Please come to where I live and tell and elderly lady who can't drive she needs to walk three ******* miles out of town to get her ID so she can vote. I'll enjoy watching you trying to remove her knitting needle from your thick skull.

I'll say it again: you are a selfish ******* and a great example of why the rest of the world thinks Americans are douchebags.
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#89 Aug 21 2013 at 9:25 PM Rating: Good
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Cut the cake any way you want, for the better part of 50 years government programs have been implemented and in spite of the literally hundreds of leftist programs, billions dumped into it, and countless man hours spent, the poverty situation has not changed for Blacks and only a fool would believe another big government leftist program will fix the situation.

Wow, good argument, if only there were any data to explore how much of it is ********* Oh wait...

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/data/historical/hstpov2.xls

For "Black Only" as race, all numbers in thousands. Yeah cutting the rate from over 50% to 22.5% at the end of Clinton's second term was clearly a massive failure. Nothing is more amusing that you morons making an assumed argument that there's public data for.

Year          Pop          Poor         Rate 
2011......	39,609	10,929	27.6 
2010 17/..	39,283	10,746	27.4 
2009......	38,556	9,944	25.8 
2008......	37,966	9,379	24.7 
2007......	37,665	9,237	24.5 
2006......	37,306	9,048	24.3 
2005......	36,802	9,168	24.9 
2004 14/..	36,426	9,014	24.7 
2003......	35,989	8,781	24.4 
2002......	35,678	8,602	24.1 
2001......	35,871	8,136	22.7 
2000 12/..	35,425	7,982	22.5 
1999 11/..	35,756	8,441	23.6 
1998......	34,877	9,091	26.1 
1997......	34,458	9,116  	26.5 
1996......	34,110	9,694	28.4 
1995......	33,740	9,872	29.3 
1994......	33,353	10,196	30.6 
1993 10/..	32,910	10,877	33.1 
1992 9/...	32,411	10,827	33.4 
1991 8/...	31,313	10,242	32.7 
1990......	30,806	9,837	31.9 
1989......	30,332	9,302	30.7 
1988......	29,849	9,356	31.3 
1987 7/...	29,362	9,520	32.4 
1986......	28,871	8,983	31.1 
1985 .....	28,485	8,926	31.3 
1984......	28,087	9,490	33.8 
1983 6/...	27,678	9,882	35.7 
1982......	27,216	9,697	35.6 
1981 5/...	26,834	9,173	34.2 
1980......	26,408	8,579	32.5 
1979 4/...	25,944	8,050	31.0 
1978......	24,956	7,625	30.6 
1977......	24,710	7,726	31.3 
1976......	24,399	7,595	31.1 
1975......	24,089	7,545	31.3 
1974 3/...	23,699	7,182	30.3 
1973......	23,512	7,388	31.4 
1972......	23,144	7,710	33.3 
1971 2/...	22,784	7,396	32.5 
1970......	22,515	7,548	33.5 
1969......	22,011	7,095	32.2 
1968......	21,944	7,616	34.7 
1967 1/...	21,590	8,486	39.3 
1966......	21,206	8,867	41.8 
1959......	18,013	9,927	55.1 




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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#90 Aug 21 2013 at 9:39 PM Rating: Default
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Smasharoo wrote:

For "Black Only" as race, all numbers in thousands. Yeah cutting the rate from over 50% to 22.5% at the end of Clinton's second term was clearly a massive failure. Nothing is more amusing that you morons making an assumed argument that there's public data for.



So an average probably in the neighborhood of what? ~30% poverty over the last 50 years?


Boy, you sure are making a great argument for your beloved programs Ace. I'm sure the drop from 50% to 22.5% had nothing to do with a shift in society and EVERYTHING to do with your largely ineffective government programs right?

TANF created in 1997, since then poverty for blacks has increased.

WIC created in 1966 had marginal effect on poverty for blacks and in the years following poverty remained in the neighborhood of 30% for decades afterward, you can also add Affirmative Action to this list created in 1965 in the Civil Rights Act (as law rather than executive order).


-NW



Edited, Aug 21st 2013 8:42pm by NaughtyWord
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#91 Aug 21 2013 at 9:39 PM Rating: Good
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I'll say it again: you are a selfish @#%^ and a great example of why the rest of the world thinks Americans are douchebags.

Nah, every American tourist ever are why the rest of the world thinks Americans are douchebags. Gbaji would be recognized categorically as a douchebag in all cultures, no one would assume the American part had much to do with it.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#92 Aug 21 2013 at 9:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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NaughtyWord wrote:
TANF created in 1997, since then poverty for blacks has increased.

TANF was designed to replace the (then) existing welfare system and make it stricter and harder to access.

So... you know... nice point.

Edited, Aug 21st 2013 10:48pm by Jophiel
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#93 Aug 21 2013 at 10:08 PM Rating: Good
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Boy, you sure are making a great argument for your beloved programs Ace. I'm sure the drop from 50% to 22.5% had nothing to do with a shift in society and EVERYTHING to do with your largely ineffective government programs right?

This is also a really good argument. Let me see if I understand it: "Things didn't get better after the Great Society, so clearly it was a failure. Wait? They did? Well, things got better after the Great Society, but not BECAUSE of it. Magic!"

That about sum it up, fuckstick?





TANF created in 1997, since then poverty for blacks has increased.


"Welfare Reform" for the uninitiated. Yes, TANF was a failure. Why? Because welfare works, the "reform" part doesn't.


WIC created in 1966 had marginal effect on poverty for blacks and in the years following poverty remained in the neighborhood of 30% for decades afterward

First of all, 1972, This isn't hard to establish with more than 2 seconds of research. Secondly, it's not an anti poverty program, it's a child hunger program. MOST infants in the US are served by WIC. Isn't that awesome? A family of 4 in most states can have an income greater than $40k (it's right around the Median Household rate) and still be eligible. So the fact that a food program that serves people with median income or lower hasn't had a dramatic effect on poverty is, frankly, not very interesting. Giving people food rarely makes them less poor. You know what makes them less poor? Giving them *money*. The data on measures of child hunger, you know the intent of WIC, shows it's an amazing success and one of the most efficient government programs ever. If you're going to argue WIC has been a failure at alleviating child hunger, you should just stop trying to justify anything and only post "because I want this to be true!" Possibly threaten to hold your breath.





You can also add Affirmative Action to this list created in 1965 in the Civil Rights Act.


Yeah, again, not intended to address poverty. I mean I can see your problem, all of the programs intended to address poverty fucking went and made people less poor so you have to cast a wide net to try and indict the social safety net as useless. Here's the thing, though: It isn't. It works. It works in the US, it works in Europe. It works EVERYWHERE. Giving poor people money.....drumroll.....makes them less poor. I'll see if you can riddle out what possible mechanism could make that work all on your own.


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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#94 Aug 21 2013 at 10:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I think thats the first time ever for Smasharoo to use a colored font.


I assure you this is not the case. I'd estimate I use one at a rate of about 1 in 854 posts. I say "estimate" because greping the markup tags would probably seem weird.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#95 Aug 21 2013 at 11:49 PM Rating: Good
Smasharoo wrote:
I'll say it again: you are a selfish @#%^ and a great example of why the rest of the world thinks Americans are douchebags. Nah, every American tourist ever are why the rest of the world thinks Americans are douchebags. Gbaji would be recognized categorically as a douchebag in all cultures, no one would assume the American part had much to do with it.
Thanks, Smash. I never saw it that way before.




I'm....I...I just need some quiet time now.*sniff*
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#96 Aug 21 2013 at 11:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:
Quote:
I think thats the first time ever for Smasharoo to use a colored font.


I assure you this is not the case. I'd estimate I use one at a rate of about 1 in 854 posts. I say "estimate" because greping the markup tags would probably seem weird.

No weirder than using "grep" makes anything else sound...
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#97 Aug 22 2013 at 4:06 AM Rating: Decent
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NW wrote:
you can also add Affirmative Action to this list
Are you implying that giving people education and jobs create poverty?
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#98 Aug 22 2013 at 7:29 AM Rating: Good
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The food stamp program was not created as a jobs program. It was created to insure everyone, kids particularly, got properly fed.

NW, would you suggest that a wealthy nation such as the US simply ignore the most basic needs of it's citizens?

TANF was an overhaul of AFDIC. It was largely a success at meeting it's goals (providing a pathway OFF assistance). The recent economic disaster sent the welfare rolls spiraling out of control. More of us fell into poverty. I don't think you can blame the programs.

Medicaid/medicare is the one welfare program that presents a real financial burden to the country. Largely because of this countries exorbitant health care costs. I had greater hopes for Obama-care to start reeling in those expenditures but after all the political wrangling there was little left in the bill to address costs.

I don't think Smash is viewed as the archetypal american. If I didn't know better I'd beg him as a snooty Brit. American's are cowboys to the rest of the world, aren't they?
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#99 Aug 22 2013 at 8:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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NaughtyWord wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
NaughtyWord wrote:
only a fool would believe another big government leftist program will fix the situation.
Hire them to pass out Voter ID Cards.
An equally terrible idea.
But how are we going to prevent all that possible conceivable hypothetical feasible could maybe happening voter fraud that's occurring ALL THE TIME?!

Edited, Aug 22nd 2013 10:27am by lolgaxe
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#100 Aug 22 2013 at 8:39 AM Rating: Good
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My favorite part of this voter fraud bit is just how much fraud there would need to be for it to matter, in any way, ever. Extremely few districts actually decide by a hair who their vote goes to, and they're rarely required as a tie-breaker anyway.

My county votes red, almost always. I think McCain had 54% of the vote. So my vote actually matters in that context. But my county has nearly 600,000 people in it. The sheer number of fake votes it would take to make up the difference between Obama and McCain is well over 100k.

Yeah, voter fraud is a problem.
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#101 Aug 22 2013 at 9:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
My favorite part of this voter fraud bit is just how much fraud there would need to be for it to matter, in any way, ever. Extremely few districts actually decide by a hair who their vote goes to, and they're rarely required as a tie-breaker anyway.

My county votes red, almost always. I think McCain had 54% of the vote. So my vote actually matters in that context. But my county has nearly 600,000 people in it. The sheer number of fake votes it would take to make up the difference between Obama and McCain is well over 100k.

Yeah, voter fraud is a problem.

But they're bring in busloads of blacks from who knows where. You know, bus loads, that's a lot. Smiley: um
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