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#1 Aug 01 2013 at 1:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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A lawyer for embattled San Diego Mayor Bob Filner argues the city should fund his defence as it failed to give him anti-sexual harassment training.


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"This is not an excuse for any inappropriate behavior which may have occurred," the lawyer wrote, "but having conducted sexual harassment training many times over the years, I have learned that many - if not most - people do not know what is and what is not illegal sexual harassment under California law."


What the heck was up with that?
This was his last desperate chance to fund his defense.:9 (26.5%)
He's pissed off he got caught and this is just him throwing a tantrum.:6 (17.6%)
He's dumb as rocks.:5 (14.7%)
Politics; this is the best way his team could come up with to put a little doubt in the public's mind.:3 (8.8%)
Boobies.:11 (32.4%)
Total:34


Really? I'm not sure what to say. As in, do you really want us to believe you had no idea what you were doing was wrong? Or were you seriously interested in pushing things as far as you could, and aren't happy you didn't know where the line in the sand was? And that's somehow the city's fault? Why do something immoral even if it isn't technically illegal?

Smiley: motz

Looks like he's fighting this thing a little while longer at least. Politicians... Smiley: oyvey

Edited, Aug 1st 2013 12:08pm by someproteinguy
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#2 Aug 01 2013 at 1:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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But he's got such an honest face.
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#3 Aug 01 2013 at 1:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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He looks so happy too.
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#4 Aug 01 2013 at 1:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Even if we accepted that the state failed to give him appropriate training for what is appropriate in the workplace, that defense still ends at the limits of "not illegal in general."

Groping someone without their consent is illegal. Last I checked the "I didn't know it was illegal" defense has never been accepted.
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#5 Aug 01 2013 at 1:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Makes me wonder though, since he brought this to light, if the women could now sue the city for not providing the training. That might take some of the publicity off of him, and deflect it to the city. Since that's another issue in itself and all.

You know, politics. Smiley: rolleyes
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#6 Aug 01 2013 at 1:55 PM Rating: Good
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The real problem there becomes how you could possibly enforce it without making it law. I'm sure there were harassment seminars available, and that he's supposed to go to them via policy, but he's the mayor. It's not like anyone can make him go, or punish him for not going.

Unless they want to pass a law that says a mayor can only take office if they complete anti-harassment training, there's not much you can do there. I'm not opposed to that kind of legislation, but I doubt it's in place right now.
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#7 Aug 01 2013 at 1:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Do they have photos of the groped women? They may be whores. If I saw some photos, I could make a judgement on how much they deserved it and we could change the focus accordingly.
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#8 Aug 01 2013 at 2:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Unless they want to pass a law that says a mayor can only take office if they complete anti-harassment training, there's not much you can do there. I'm not opposed to that kind of legislation, but I doubt it's in place right now.
I have no idea. I would assume it'd be something on the books like "all public employees must take harassment training or else something, something, bad consequences." I suppose that would mean showing the city was negligent somehow in allowing this all to happen, which may well be a stretch.

Just a thought that leaped to mind.
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#9 Aug 01 2013 at 2:20 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
The real problem there becomes how you could possibly enforce it without making it law. I'm sure there were harassment seminars available, and that he's supposed to go to them via policy, but he's the mayor. It's not like anyone can make him go, or punish him for not going.


He's only been Mayor for a short time (was elected last November). Prior to that, he served in the US House of Representatives (for 20 years). So the excuse that it was somehow the city's fault that he never in all his professional life received any form of sexual harassment training is weak at best. Do we sue the US government then (Or is it the state? Or the district?)?

What's stunning about this case is that he's been refusing to resign, forcing his accusers to come forward publicly, thus making him look much worse (and increasing the odds of civil or even criminal penalties in addition to his inevitable loss of position). What's even more stunning is that despite a continuously growing number of women coming forward about his behavior, some people are still standing by him and his decision not to resign. I get the whole due process argument, but at this point he can't possibly govern effectively at all. No one wants to be within 50 feet of the guy publicly. He can't do his job while this is going on.
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#10 Aug 01 2013 at 2:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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#11 Aug 01 2013 at 2:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Prior to that, he served in the US House of Representatives (for 20 years).

Did he grab Pelosi's boobs?
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#12 Aug 01 2013 at 2:22 PM Rating: Good
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But he's got such an honest face.
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And a forehead that hides nothing from you.
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#13 Aug 01 2013 at 2:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Prior to that, he served in the US House of Representatives (for 20 years).

Did he grab Pelosi's boobs?


/vomit
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#14 Aug 01 2013 at 2:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hey, she might have had some sweet knockers 20 years ago.
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#15 Aug 01 2013 at 2:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Hey, she might have had some sweet knockers 20 years ago.


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Well they are JFK approved.
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#16 Aug 01 2013 at 2:51 PM Rating: Good
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I think he said 20 years ago, not when she was 20 years old.
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#17 Aug 01 2013 at 2:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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TirithRR wrote:
I think he said 20 years ago, not when she was 20 years old.


But if you pull apart the wrinkles now you can probably find his stamp of quality.
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#18 Aug 01 2013 at 2:56 PM Rating: Decent
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What's stunning about this case is that he's been refusing to resign, forcing his accusers to come forward publicly, thus making him look much worse (and increasing the odds of civil or even criminal penalties in addition to his inevitable loss of position). What's even more stunning is that despite a continuously growing number of women coming forward about his behavior, some people are still standing by him and his decision not to resign. I get the whole due process argument, but at this point he can't possibly govern effectively at all.

Govern what, he's the Mayor of San Diego. What does that actually involve? Blowing sailors down at the navy base and throwing out the first pitch at Padres games in front of a crowd of dozens?
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#19 Aug 01 2013 at 3:23 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
What's stunning about this case is that he's been refusing to resign, forcing his accusers to come forward publicly, thus making him look much worse (and increasing the odds of civil or even criminal penalties in addition to his inevitable loss of position). What's even more stunning is that despite a continuously growing number of women coming forward about his behavior, some people are still standing by him and his decision not to resign. I get the whole due process argument, but at this point he can't possibly govern effectively at all.

Govern what, he's the Mayor of San Diego. What does that actually involve? Blowing sailors down at the navy base and throwing out the first pitch at Padres games in front of a crowd of dozens?


And even the gay sailors don't want anything to do with him. You see the problem?

7 out of the 9 members of the city council want him gone, and don't want him within 100 feet of a council meeting. No one in any public office (aside from maybe those other two council members, although I suspect even their support stops at not calling for his resignation), or any private business dealing with the city wants to be on a phone call with him, let alone in any meeting with him. No state officials want to work with him on anything, nor do any Mayors of other cities (although if Weiner were elected, maybe they'd have something to talk about?). No one wants him involved in any sort of ceremonial duties that a mayor normally is involved in.

Him remaining Mayor is a problem in another way as well: There is the potential of criminal charges being filed against him for sexual assault. But he has the authority to fire the chief of police (and is himself charged with enforcing the laws). Kind of a pickle, even if it may just create the perception of a conflict of interest. I guess the main point is that he's not doing himself any favors with this. He's being given the opportunity to bow out semi-gracefully, but has chosen to go into full denial mode instead. This is forcing other parties to pursue actual legal action against him, where he likely would have gotten off if he'd just stepped down.

If he doesn't resign, then there are only two avenues: A recall election (which would take quite a bit of time), or criminal charges being filed against him. To make matters worse, a pro-Filner group jumped right into the recall process early, so as to make it nearly impossible to get the number of signatures required to have a recall election by the deadline. His own "help" and his own refusal to resign is making criminal charges against him almost a foregone conclusion. He's practically putting the rope around his own neck here.

I've seen arrogant politicians, but this guy really takes the cake. And I've seen strident partisan groups, but the folks standing by and supporting him are so clearly putting politics ahead of morality it's almost nauseating. The good news is that this will put a black eye on the Democratic party around here for a good long time to come. They're taking the suspicion many have in this mostly conservative town that Democrats care about power more than anything else and turning it into demonstrable fact. So, good going guys!
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#20 Aug 01 2013 at 3:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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I have absolutely no idea what this is about so I voted for boobies. so can we get boobies now? Or at least a tl;dr about who this guy is and what happened.
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#21 Aug 01 2013 at 3:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Politician sexually harassed lots of women, refuses to resign, and now tried to get the city to cover his legal bills by saying he never received anti-harassment training.

Smiley: popcorn
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#22 Aug 01 2013 at 3:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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The only thing shocking about this case is that someone actually finds "politician clinging to power for dear life" shocking.
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#23 Aug 01 2013 at 3:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
The good news is that this will put a black eye on the Democratic party around here for a good long time to come. They're taking the suspicion many have in this mostly conservative town that Democrats care about power more than anything else and turning it into demonstrable fact. So, good going guys!

Words can't express how concerned I am about the fate of the local Democratic party in San Diego.
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#24 Aug 01 2013 at 3:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
The only thing shocking about this case is that someone actually finds "politician clinging to power for dear life" shocking.
He can't hold a candle to Berlusconi though. He is still claiming he's innocent after having been sentenced to 4 years in jail for tax evasion (because this time, he couldn't get the law changed to make him innocent).
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#25 Aug 01 2013 at 5:49 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
The good news is that this will put a black eye on the Democratic party around here for a good long time to come. They're taking the suspicion many have in this mostly conservative town that Democrats care about power more than anything else and turning it into demonstrable fact. So, good going guys!

Words can't express how concerned I am about the fate of the local Democratic party in San Diego.


The Dems have actually made some inroads in the area in the last couple decades. Last round of redistricting helped them out quite a bit as well. Without getting into a long drawn out examination of why, this will absolutely set them back a bit.
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#26 Aug 01 2013 at 6:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
But he's got such an honest face.
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He broke the EWWWWWWWWWWWWWW-o-meter!
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#27 Aug 01 2013 at 6:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Without getting into a long drawn out examination of why, this will absolutely set them back a bit.

I'll just assume that's true but, again, it's San Diego. Obviously it'd be nice to have whatever elected seats in Democratic hands (all things being equal) but ultimately it matters to people in the immediate area and no one else. A brief look shows that Democrats won the Congressional seat there by over 20 points so the only national aspect of it isn't anything to worry about. Who gets to be mayor, no one cares about except the people who live there.
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#28 Aug 01 2013 at 6:09 PM Rating: Excellent
Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Prior to that, he served in the US House of Representatives (for 20 years).
Did he grab Pelosi's boobs?
Was she a whore?

gbaji wrote:
They're taking the suspicion many have in this mostly conservative town that Democrats care about power more than anything else and turning it into demonstrable fact. So, good going guys!

It's cute that you think this is an "Democratic" issue.

Did I say "cute"? I meant "child-like".

ALSO: "delusional".
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Debalic wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
But he's got such an honest face.
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He broke the EWWWWWWWWWWWWWW-o-meter!

Screenshot

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#30 Aug 01 2013 at 6:24 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Debalic wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
But he's got such an honest face.
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He broke the EWWWWWWWWWWWWWW-o-meter!

Screenshot



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#31 Aug 01 2013 at 8:18 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Without getting into a long drawn out examination of why, this will absolutely set them back a bit.

I'll just assume that's true but, again, it's San Diego. Obviously it'd be nice to have whatever elected seats in Democratic hands (all things being equal) but ultimately it matters to people in the immediate area and no one else.


Which is precisely what I was talking about.


Quote:
A brief look shows that Democrats won the Congressional seat there by over 20 points so the only national aspect of it isn't anything to worry about. Who gets to be mayor, no one cares about except the people who live there.


Seat? There are 5 US districts with overlap over San Diego County. CA 49, 50, 51, 52, and 53. Currently 2 of those 5 are Republican, and 3 are Democrat. They redistricted in 2010 to basically push the 52nd into Dem hands in 2012, and even then just barely. Also, San Diego elected a Democrat to mayor for the first time in 20 years. So yeah, there was a trend in that direction, and this will affect that trend.
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#32 Aug 01 2013 at 8:39 PM Rating: Default
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Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
They're taking the suspicion many have in this mostly conservative town that Democrats care about power more than anything else and turning it into demonstrable fact. So, good going guys!

It's cute that you think this is an "Democratic" issue.


It's about the perception of how elected officials from each party respond to scandals like this. Both parties have scandals, but it recently it seems like the Dems have become more likely to try to retain their positions despite those scandals (and far more likely that Republicans). Honestly, you almost can't blame them. Democrats get far more of a pass from the media normally (if for no other reason than far fewer people in the media actively look for things to pin on them), so it's natural that they'll tend to think that they can get away with more and more blatant abuses of their power and position.

Just look at this case. It's not like he just started doing this in the last 6 months. We have women coming forward from at least 8 years ago, when he was a US congressman. Why didn't they come forward earlier? In many cases, politics. One of the women (the Dean, IIRC) didn't say anything because she was afraid that her school, which heavily relied on public funding, would suffer if she did. Other women were members of his campaign or regular staff, and presumably jobs and/or elections were on the line.

It's just interesting to me that while both sides occasionally get bad apples, it seems like the ones that end up in the GOP are usually found out pretty quickly and ousted, while it's Democrats who seem to get away with things for long periods of time. I'm just tossing out a theory that the willingness of liberals in general to look the other way in the name of political advantage (the whole "ends justify the means" thing) is a major factor to this, and that this in turn leads those politicians to become increasingly blatant with their behavior until you have what appears to be a clear case of "how the hell did he get away with this for so long?".
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#33 Aug 01 2013 at 9:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Seat? There are 5 US districts with overlap over San Diego County.

My mistake. I only cared enough to make one Google search. For that matter I have no idea if San Diego County shares the same limits of the city proper. Or care about that either, I guess.
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#34 Aug 01 2013 at 11:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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#35 Aug 02 2013 at 7:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
It's just interesting to me that while both sides occasionally get bad apples, it seems like the ones that end up in the GOP are usually found out pretty quickly and ousted, while it's Democrats who seem to get away with things for long periods of time
Being a bad liar doesn't make them more trustworthy.
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#36 Aug 02 2013 at 7:48 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:


It's just interesting to me that while both sides occasionally get bad apples, it seems like the ones that end up in the GOP are usually found out pretty quickly and ousted, while it's Democrats who seem to get away with things for long periods of time. I'm just tossing out a theory that the willingness of liberals in general to look the other way in the name of political advantage (the whole "ends justify the means" thing) is a major factor to this, and that this in turn leads those politicians to become increasingly blatant with their behavior until you have what appears to be a clear case of "how the hell did he get away with this for so long?".

That's cuz Republican scandals often times involve acting on the unforgivable gay-lustiness. Can God just look away?

As usual your opinion is quite obviously slanted and completely oblivious of ,and contrary to, reality in general.
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#37 Aug 02 2013 at 7:53 AM Rating: Good
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Accidentally posted this in the wrong thread.

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#38 Aug 02 2013 at 7:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
Screenshot

Jack Nicholson - The bad years...
He's an early stage of whatever process it is that creates Cenobites.
Screenshot
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#39 Aug 02 2013 at 7:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
Screenshot

Jack Nicholson - The bad years...
He's an early stage of whatever process it is that creates Cenobites.
Screenshot


Groping is just the gateway drug to extreme body modding.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2013 9:59am by Shaowstrike
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#40 Aug 02 2013 at 8:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
To make matters worse, a pro-Filner group jumped right into the recall process early, so as to make it nearly impossible to get the number of signatures required to have a recall election by the deadline.

The city attorney issued an opinion that there can be multiple recall petition efforts happening simultaneously. So this doesn't seem as though it'll be an issue.

gbaji wrote:
It's just interesting to me that while both sides occasionally get bad apples, it seems like the ones that end up in the GOP are usually found out pretty quickly and ousted, while it's Democrats who seem to get away with things for long periods of time.

Confirmation bias. Republican governor George Ryan was being indicted by the feds and the Republican establishment defended him (and certainly didn't attempt to oust him) and the Republicans got squashed next cycle by Blagojevich. Blagojevich got indicted, the Democrats tried to kick him out ASAP (even petitioning the attorney General to declare him incapacitated for mental issues) and we still have Quinn (D) as governor. I think the party response matters more than the individual failings and from what little I've seen from San Diego, this joker has no allies left in the local government.
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#41 Aug 02 2013 at 8:59 AM Rating: Decent
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I've seen arrogant politicians, but this guy really takes the cake. And I've seen strident partisan groups, but the folks standing by and supporting him are so clearly putting politics ahead of morality it's almost nauseating. The good news is that this will put a black eye on the Democratic party around here for a good long time to come

Probably not. People associate these kinds of failing with individuals not political parties, hence the GOP not being limited to the Nazi boy fucker vote. Obviously he should resign, he's a mayor, not a SCOTUS nominee.

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#42 Aug 02 2013 at 9:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Funny, that the Democratic party which supports gay rights usually ends up in heterosexual scandals...
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#43 Aug 02 2013 at 9:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Debalic wrote:
Funny, that the Democratic party which supports gay rights usually ends up in heterosexual scandals...

And that the Republican party, which supports the rights of white men, usually ends up with white man on man scandals.
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#44 Aug 02 2013 at 9:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Debalic wrote:
Funny, that the Democratic party which supports gay rights usually ends up in heterosexual scandals...
It's always a difficult process when you come out of the closet and admit you're straight. These kinds of things are to be expected.
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#45 Aug 02 2013 at 9:45 AM Rating: Good
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Would it be a closet?
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#46 Aug 02 2013 at 9:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Many times I'd sadly shake my head as some Democrat tried to desperately explain that he couldn't have been at the titty bar because he spent that night cruising a highway rest stop. Smiley: disappointed
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#47 Aug 02 2013 at 9:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Would it be a closet?
Wardrobe perhaps?
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#48 Aug 02 2013 at 9:52 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Would it be a closet?
Wardrobe perhaps?

Sure if your dirty little secret is that you're a faun.

....r thieves around here.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2013 5:53pm by Elinda
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LOOK here.
#49 Aug 02 2013 at 5:33 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Seat? There are 5 US districts with overlap over San Diego County.

My mistake. I only cared enough to make one Google search. For that matter I have no idea if San Diego County shares the same limits of the city proper. Or care about that either, I guess.


Not the same limits, but the city basically is every area in the county that isn't its own city. So the downtown area is the city of San Diego, but so are a dozen or so somewhat patchwork (and non-contiguous) areas throughout the county. Just eyeballing the district map, it looks like there are at least parts of the city within all 5 districts. It's not a huge distinction really, given that it's the broad geographical area and those living in it which might form opinions based on a scandal like this.
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King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#50 Aug 02 2013 at 5:41 PM Rating: Default
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Smasharoo wrote:
Probably not. People associate these kinds of failing with individuals not political parties...


If that were true, no one would worry about things like party "brand", or whether to call themselves liberal or progressive, or any of a dozen factors which political analysts know influence people's opinions because of associative reasoning.
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King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#51 Aug 02 2013 at 5:51 PM Rating: Good
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Yes, but it's not like one scandal is enough to do so. Not unless you're intimately involved with the scandal, at least.

If you have scandals in the numbers where it would be significant enough to seriously influence someone's party affiliations, then it's safe to say there are serious problems with your party's leadership such that people should be worried about affiliating with you.

That goes for both sides. The scandals that have the most impact change relative to the value they put on the issue, but it's largely true.

But it's also true that the scandals need to be significant enough to outweigh the typical jargon. How many anti-gay Republicans have abandoned the party because of a consistently high rate of gay sex scandals? Close to none, because the overall party line on the issue is preferable to the alternatives.
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Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
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