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Santiago De Compostella train crash.Follow

#1 Jul 25 2013 at 9:06 AM Rating: Good
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CNN article.




tl;dr on the article:
  • 78 dead, 187 injured and 95 people still in the hospital of which 36 are in critical condition with more bodies expected to be found.
  • Supposedly the driver was going 190km/h on a piece of track where the maximum speed is 80km/h.
  • The train had undergone a routine inspection on the morning of the crash.
  • The driver (who survived but is hospitalized) is being questioned by the police.


Edited, Jul 25th 2013 5:07pm by Aethien
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#2 Jul 25 2013 at 9:08 AM Rating: Good
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Was there a Delorean in front of the train?
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#3 Jul 25 2013 at 9:19 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Was there a Delorean in front of the train?


More likely under it.
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#4 Jul 25 2013 at 9:24 AM Rating: Good
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Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Was there a Delorean in front of the train?


More likely under it.

Same place, different time.

That video is gruesome. Such a tragedy. Smiley: frown
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#5 Jul 25 2013 at 9:27 AM Rating: Good
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It shows how ridiculously fast that train was going though. And this is not a good time for trains with the exploding train in Canada and the train crash in Paris in the last month.
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#6 Jul 25 2013 at 10:57 AM Rating: Good
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How the driver/engineer survived that is... wow.
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#7 Jul 25 2013 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
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IF only there was a way to cap the top speed of trains based on where on the track they are. There is? Oh, it costs a nickel more per train? **** it then.
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#8 Jul 25 2013 at 12:07 PM Rating: Good
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Speed cap? **** that, I got places to be.
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#9 Jul 25 2013 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
How the driver/engineer survived that is... wow.


By the looks of the initial crash in that video, the front of the train was the safest place. It moved away from the wall and was traveling down the tracks, everything else was crashing into the wall and grinding down it.
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#10 Jul 25 2013 at 12:29 PM Rating: Good
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It was the second or third car that derailed first as well, I guess that the front just has a lower center of gravity than the rest of the train.
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#11 Jul 25 2013 at 3:54 PM Rating: Decent
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So who's still up for a bullet train from DC to Boston?
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#12 Jul 25 2013 at 7:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Next up: the last tweet from the engineer. "Whoo hoo! Hold mah beer and watch this."
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#13 Jul 26 2013 at 7:35 AM Rating: Good
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Maybe someone put a penny on the track?
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#14 Jul 26 2013 at 10:44 AM Rating: Good
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The driver has been detained for questioning now that they've determined he wasn't seriously injured.

The train was inspected that morning, but that doesn't rule out the possibility of a mechanical failure in the braking system.

Or the old "bush grew over the speed limit sign" excuse.
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#15 Jul 26 2013 at 10:55 AM Rating: Good
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They also uncovered a bunch of posts on his facebook page (since removed) that bragged about how fast he was going with his trains.
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#16 Jul 26 2013 at 11:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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If that's true, it only reaffirms my position that social media is for people who are mentally handicapped, but sadly, undiagnosed.
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#17 Jul 26 2013 at 3:35 PM Rating: Decent
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So who's still up for a bullet train from DC to Boston?

Oh, certainly almost no one. I mean a bad thing happened to something vaguely similar, so let's abandon all and any inclinations about implementing this sort of thing. What they need in Spain are more cars, the very safe mode of transportation we primarily use here in God's Chosen Land. Why I have never heard of an 80 person fatality from a car accident!
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#18 Jul 26 2013 at 4:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:
So who's still up for a bullet train from DC to Boston?

Oh, certainly almost no one. I mean a bad thing happened to something vaguely similar, so let's abandon all and any inclinations about implementing this sort of thing.


Seems like the usual way of doing things though.

Quote:
What they need in Spain are more cars, the very safe mode of transportation we primarily use here in God's Chosen Land. Why I have never heard of an 80 person fatality from a car accident!


/shrug. When the argument for mass transit is that it'll be safer/cheaper, anything that calls those into question is going to be applicable.
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#19 Jul 26 2013 at 5:11 PM Rating: Good
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How there were ONLY that many people killed is insane, given the speed.
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#20 Jul 26 2013 at 5:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well, given that that represents a 30% mortality rate on the scene, that's pretty horrendous.
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#21 Jul 26 2013 at 5:56 PM Rating: Good
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Well, given that that represents a 30% mortality rate on the scene, that's pretty horrendous.

Certainly horrendous, I'm just glad it's not higher. At that speed, I wouldn't have been surprised if the mortality rate was 60%+.
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#22 Jul 26 2013 at 6:31 PM Rating: Good
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Since this was a high speed train that means that you have to reserve a ticket in advance and get a chair assigned to you, almost everyone being seated and relatively secure probably mitigated the damage for a lot of people. At least for those not in the first few cars to go off the rails.
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#23 Jul 26 2013 at 10:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:
So who's still up for a bullet train from DC to Boston?

Oh, certainly almost no one. I mean a bad thing happened to something vaguely similar, so let's abandon all and any inclinations about implementing this sort of thing. What they need in Spain are more cars, the very safe mode of transportation we primarily use here in God's Chosen Land. Why I have never heard of an 80 person fatality from a car accident!

Hey, if a reactor meltdown in Japan that killed no one can prompt a Euro nation to abandon nuke power, I think it's perfectly cromulent for a psychotic train conuctor crashing a train to cause a similar knee-jerk reaction elsewhere. [thatsthejoke.jpg]
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#24 Jul 27 2013 at 9:00 AM Rating: Good
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When the argument for mass transit is that it'll be safer/cheaper, anything that calls those into question is going to be applicable.

Let me know when that happens, because it hasn't yet. Driving in a car is still, by a wild margin, the most dangerous thing the average person does. I'm not really sure what the arguments *against* mass transit are, to be honest. Legitimately. I'm trying to think of some POV that makes sense to oppose it, but I can't. I mean aside from the "never spend money on anything!!!" argument that would also apply against having law enforcement, roads, fire services, etc.
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#25 Jul 27 2013 at 10:10 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
When the argument for mass transit is that it'll be safer/cheaper, anything that calls those into question is going to be applicable.

Let me know when that happens, because it hasn't yet. Driving in a car is still, by a wild margin, the most dangerous thing the average person does. I'm not really sure what the arguments *against* mass transit are, to be honest. Legitimately. I'm trying to think of some POV that makes sense to oppose it, but I can't. I mean aside from the "never spend money on anything!!!" argument that would also apply against having law enforcement, roads, fire services, etc.
It's also important to keep in mind that this is by far the largest train related disaster in all of Europe in the last decade.


As far as legitimate reasons against mass transit/trains: It's a very bad mode of transportation if your point of departure or your destination is not close to a train station. It takes me 2 hours and 45 minutes to get from my house to my dad's house by public transport, 1h15m of that is train, the other 90 minutes are almost all bus. For comparison it takes about 1 hour to 1h15m to do it by car and when you're traveling with 2 or more the car is also cheaper.
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#26 Jul 27 2013 at 11:09 AM Rating: Good
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I only generally use mass transit when heading to NYC

If I'm going from my house, it's a short drive to the train station, then $40 in fares. It would take $40 in gas, too. So it's always cheaper to take the bus when going alone. But with a friend? If we'll be there for a while, figure it'll be about even, with a general edge to driving. 3 or more, driving is cheaper.
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#27 Jul 27 2013 at 12:19 PM Rating: Decent
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I guess splitting all-day parking among 3-4 people works out.
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#28 Jul 27 2013 at 12:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:
When the argument for mass transit is that it'll be safer/cheaper, anything that calls those into question is going to be applicable.

Let me know when that happens, because it hasn't yet. Driving in a car is still, by a wild margin, the most dangerous thing the average person does. I'm not really sure what the arguments *against* mass transit are, to be honest. Legitimately. I'm trying to think of some POV that makes sense to oppose it, but I can't. I mean aside from the "never spend money on anything!!!" argument that would also apply against having law enforcement, roads, fire services, etc.
It's also important to keep in mind that this is by far the largest train related disaster in all of Europe in the last decade.


As far as legitimate reasons against mass transit/trains: It's a very bad mode of transportation if your point of departure or your destination is not close to a train station. It takes me 2 hours and 45 minutes to get from my house to my dad's house by public transport, 1h15m of that is train, the other 90 minutes are almost all bus. For comparison it takes about 1 hour to 1h15m to do it by car and when you're traveling with 2 or more the car is also cheaper.

That's not really an argument against mass transit though, it's more an argument against you in that specific location using it.
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#29 Jul 27 2013 at 1:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:
. I'm not really sure what the arguments *against* mass transit are, to be honest. Legitimately. I'm trying to think of some POV that makes sense to oppose it, but I can't. I mean aside from the "never spend money on anything!!!" argument that would also apply against having law enforcement, roads, fire services, etc.


Oh, there are a bunch of them, some of which are more rediculous than others. I've probably heared most of these at one point or another. Please note that this isn't my particular viewpoint on the subject, but just possible arguments:

1. Ticket cost. With very few exceptions, a mass transit system will never fully pay for itself without external subsidies or initial capital investment by ticket sales alone. The problem gets worse the shorter the particular transit segment is for bus systems, and worse the longer the system is for Rail based systems due to maintenance costs on the rails themselves over time and the need for bridges, etc.

2. inter city mass transit is often seen as a magic crazy homeless person teleporter, which is of course the only method a homeless person could travel from one area to another to wreak property crime and threaten the virtue of unsuspecting children. Put one in, and BAM, instant crime wave.

3. Safety. Not so much that a bus or train crash is going to be more dangerous than the average number of car crashes involving that same number of people, but the fact that the injuries and fatalities all occur at once can overwhelm emergancy responders and medical facilities if it were to happen, which is sometimes an argument against rail transit in smaller cities

4. We already have busses, why do we need light rail too (or trams, or BART rail, etc). This one is one of the more utilized ones, often tied to the cost argument. People see the point to point destination, not the overall network tie and less stops and transfers and notice that busses also go the same places that the train is going to go and argue that the additional speed and lack of 3 hours worth of waiting for transfers and whatnot isn't relevant for most riders except for poor people, and they don't count as real people anyways.

5. I saw that batman movie with the impossible water vaporizer thing and don't realize that human blood also contains water in it. Yeah, people have actually used the mass transit mass destruction weapon delivery platform argument and were serious about it.

so yeah, this is why we don't already have a space elevator.
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#30 Jul 27 2013 at 2:49 PM Rating: Good
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I take the MARTA train from the Ashford-Dunwoody station through Atlanta to the airport for several reasons. 1 Traffic 2. Parking 2. Cost. Timewise, it takes me the same length of time to crawl through the 75-85 slog on bad traffic days as the hour it takes MARTA to slowly lumber through the city and hit twenty stops from one end to the other. And then it drops me off directly in Harsfield Jackson airport, eliminating the need to find parking at $15/day or do a park ride for almost the same (the Dunwoody station ranges from $5 a day to $0 a day if you leave past midnight on Sunday evening) and also eliminating the need to walk a mile across the parking lot with fifty pounds of luggage in tow.

It requires a bit more planning and $5 cash for the ticket for two rides, but it's a **** of a lot cheaper and about equally convenient/inconvenient in the long run - and saves about fifty miles of wear and tear on my car.
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#31 Jul 27 2013 at 4:58 PM Rating: Decent
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It's a very bad mode of transportation if your point of departure or your destination is not close to a train station.

Yes, yes, I see. This argument of "there aren't enough train stations where I want to go to build a train station near where I want to leave from" is extremely compelling.
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#32 Jul 27 2013 at 5:09 PM Rating: Good
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It is because if you live as far as 10 miles from a train station, public transport becomes inefficient. And having a train station every 5 miles clearly isn't going to be doable.
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#33 Jul 27 2013 at 8:49 PM Rating: Good
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And having a train station every 5 miles clearly isn't going to be doable.

I think it depends largely on how much of a barren wasteland you live in. In Iowa, no, not practical. In the Boston/NYC/DC metroplex where all of the people who matter live, it's probably easily doable.
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#34 Jul 28 2013 at 7:03 AM Rating: Good
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I live in a densely crowded country where every student and many other people use public transport as their main way of moving from one place to another. But as soon as you get out of the big city, public transport gets painfully slow.
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#35 Jul 28 2013 at 2:47 PM Rating: Decent
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I live in a densely crowded country where every student and many other people use public transport as their main way of moving from one place to another. But as soon as you get out of the big city, public transport gets painfully slow.

Again, the "not enough train stations where I want to go means we shouldn't build train stations where I want to go" argument isn't very compelling. Building infrastructure around existing population density is useful because of utility. Building infrastructure to areas with low population density is useful because it allows greater freedom of movement to the low density area. Suburbs were wilderness before roads were built, etc.
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#36 Jul 28 2013 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
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I think you're actually arguing a different issue - whether or not we should be laying infrastructure to those areas is independent of the question about whether or not building train service to rural locales is worth it.

For some of them, sure. Say, if it's a logistically solid location to service rural farming communities. For others, no. Like if the local terrain isn't particularly worth developing from a geologic point, or if the local wilderness is better off preserved.

Yeah, train service might be included in the possible infrastructure options recommended for the development of a territory. But at the end of the day, many (if not most, at least right now) rural communities aren't worth building train access for, from either perspective.
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#37 Jul 28 2013 at 5:09 PM Rating: Decent
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There's quite a difference between outlying communities, and rural areas. New York is well served by having Metro-North all the way up to Dutchess County, and


...okay, ***** you.
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#38 Jul 28 2013 at 6:12 PM Rating: Good
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Who wouldn't want to live in Poughkeepsie? Smiley: lol
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#39 Jul 28 2013 at 7:05 PM Rating: Good
AMTRAK, like Rand McNally, seems to have forgotten something.

Edited, Jul 28th 2013 7:05pm by Bijou
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#40 Jul 28 2013 at 7:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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AMTRAK, like Rand McNally, seems to have forgotten something.

South Dakota?

Check out all the roads leading through Rome Chicago.
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#41 Jul 28 2013 at 7:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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#42 Jul 28 2013 at 7:47 PM Rating: Good
Jophiel wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
AMTRAK, like Rand McNally, seems to have forgotten something.

South Dakota?
YES!! Smiley: mad

You know who else wont traverse South Dakota? Greyhound.

It's almost like, once upon a time, someone actively prevented those or something. Almost.
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#43 Jul 28 2013 at 8:11 PM Rating: Good
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The thing is, a lot of rural communities already have their towns built around the train tracks - just for freight, not necessarily for people. Adding in commuter rail to some of those corridors, especially the less used ones, will be a heck of a lot easier than built tracks fresh right next to them.

In my town, the infrastructure is already there. We even built our fricking bus station next to the CTX line in anticipation of a possible light commuter rail line to Atlanta. (Hasn't happened yet.)
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#44 Jul 28 2013 at 8:15 PM Rating: Good
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At least here in Michigan, a lot of the unused rails have been torn up and turned to hiking, biking, and offroad vehicles.
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#45 Jul 28 2013 at 8:19 PM Rating: Good
The rails are certainly here, just no transport for humans. Lotsa freight (grain, lumber and furniture by a large margin).

OK. Not so much furniture as cabinetry.

Edited, Jul 28th 2013 8:20pm by Bijou
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#46 Jul 29 2013 at 5:56 AM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
The thing is, a lot of rural communities already have their towns built around the train tracks - just for freight, not necessarily for people. Adding in commuter rail to some of those corridors, especially the less used ones, will be a heck of a lot easier than built tracks fresh right next to them.

In my town, the infrastructure is already there. We even built our fricking bus station next to the CTX line in anticipation of a possible light commuter rail line to Atlanta. (Hasn't happened yet.)


I'm inclined to say that those lines are probably zoned differently, and are probably privately owned.

I don't know how it is elsewhere, but in NJ almost all the tracks that NJTransit operates on are owned by NJTransit. Short stretches on some of its lines are owned by companies, but for the most part they are public property. And since Amtrak's majority share holder is the federal government, you could argue that the vast majority of those other tracks are also public property. We also have passenger tracks owned by Conrail (private, thanks to Reagan), Metro North (owned by NY), and Norfolk Southern (private).

But the vast majority of the tracks used for passenger transit are owned by NJTransit or Amtrak. Only very short spans are privately owned.

I doubt it would be economically feasible to pay the fees a freight corp. would demand to use their entire line for passenger transport. Not with all the negative impacts it would have on the freight side of the business.
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#47 Jul 29 2013 at 7:19 AM Rating: Good
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Friar Bijou wrote:
The rails are certainly here, just no transport for humans.
I don't know. I have to take a yearly course on human trafficking so it has to be there somewhere.
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#48 Jul 29 2013 at 7:30 AM Rating: Good
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I have a couple good options for taking public transportation right on outta my region, but few (0) options for commuting to work or getting around the neighborhood. The human population is too lean in these parts for public transit to ever really be efficient beyond a couple buses. Many of the little towns though are making their roadways and pathways much more friendly to bicycle and foot traffic.
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