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Is Weiner a Winner?Follow

#1 Jul 24 2013 at 8:11 AM Rating: Good
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You've all heard the stories of Anthony Weiner, the Congress-critter(D) from NY who texted his hard-on to an internet gf, was thrown out of congress for lewdness and is now running for Mayor of NYC.

The latest batch of iSex photos hit the interwaves this week. He warned the world they were coming. Yet he still seems to think he's a viable candidate to replace Bloomberg.

What's his deal?
Are NYer's just not terribly concerned with their leaders personal lives (although seemingly lacking scruples, the guy is reportedly a pretty effective politician)?:7 (36.8%)
Are the denizens of the Big Apple that forgiving?:0 (0.0%)
Or is Weiner just nuts?:9 (47.4%)
choice 4 -Pick Your Own:3 (15.8%)
Total:19


Should he continue on the campaign trail or step-aside?

If you were/are a voting citizen of NYC, would/will you vote for him?
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#2 Jul 24 2013 at 8:18 AM Rating: Good
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I'll vote for him if only to get the news of him sending pictures to other mayors.
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#3 Jul 24 2013 at 8:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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Weiner believes he's the Boa Hancock of politicians.

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#4 Jul 24 2013 at 8:51 AM Rating: Good
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Or Clinton light.
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#5 Jul 24 2013 at 2:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Honestly, IMO, IDGAF what my politician does in their personal time, as long as they pretend to represent me and my neighbors while taking kickbacks from corporate lobbyists and embarking on numerous vacations at my taxpaying expense.
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You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#6 Jul 24 2013 at 3:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Spitzer/Weiner '16!
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#7 Jul 24 2013 at 7:37 PM Rating: Good
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Usually I'm a "Politician's Private Lives Should Be Private, It's Their Official Lives That Should Matter To Us" kind of person. But in this case sending pics around while he's in the public spotlight shows a worrying lack of control and level of stupidity. If he owned it, citing an open marriage and a streak of exhibitionism, then that would be all fine by me. But noooo, he's all sorry for having being caught, having made it all but certain he'd be caught.
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#8 Jul 25 2013 at 7:43 AM Rating: Good
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The pictures aren't even the most amusing part of the story. It's so ridiculous that it's difficult to even take serious. Almost like it's intentional just to get some free publicity.
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#9 Jul 25 2013 at 8:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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He was running a healthy lead in several polls before this latest batch of news. So I don't blame him for trying to stay in and hope that time helps him recover. I still think he's a goof though.
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#10 Jul 25 2013 at 9:28 AM Rating: Good
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His willingness to be honest (albeit after the fact) is kind of refreshing in a modern-family sort of way.

I mean come one, *** is a driving force in our species, our societies and surely our leaders (they be virile!). It's rather disingenuous to pretend it's not.
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#11 Jul 25 2013 at 9:29 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I still think he's a goof though.
With a set of low-hanging ears he'd even looks a bit like Goofy.
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#12 Jul 25 2013 at 10:18 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
His willingness to be honest (albeit after the fact) is kind of refreshing in a modern-family sort of way.

I mean come one, *** is a driving force in our species, our societies and surely our leaders (they be virile!). It's rather disingenuous to pretend it's not.


Is that what everyone's doing?
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#13 Jul 25 2013 at 10:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
I mean come one, *** is a driving force in our species, our societies and surely our leaders (they be virile!). It's rather disingenuous to pretend it's not.


I think the general issue (certainly not mine, IDGAF) is his lack of discretion, a quality valued in leadership.
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You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#15 Jul 25 2013 at 1:30 PM Rating: Good
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earthwindfirepoop wrote:
BrownDuck wrote:
Elinda wrote:
I mean come one, *** is a driving force in our species, our societies and surely our leaders (they be virile!). It's rather disingenuous to pretend it's not.


I think the general issue (certainly not mine, IDGAF) is his lack of discretion, a quality valued in leadership.


The general issue is whether or not Nyers care about electing a known pervert.



Edited, Jul 25th 2013 3:27pm by earthwindfirepoop
Why did you leave out the pee?

We're all perverted in our own little perverted ways.
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#17 Jul 25 2013 at 1:52 PM Rating: Good
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earthwindfirepoop wrote:
Elinda wrote:
earthwindfirepoop wrote:
BrownDuck wrote:
Elinda wrote:
I mean come one, *** is a driving force in our species, our societies and surely our leaders (they be virile!). It's rather disingenuous to pretend it's not.


I think the general issue (certainly not mine, IDGAF) is his lack of discretion, a quality valued in leadership.


The general issue is whether or not Nyers care about electing a known pervert.



Edited, Jul 25th 2013 3:27pm by earthwindfirepoop
Why did you leave out the pee?

We're all perverted in our own little perverted ways.


No we're not. If there is no way to measure how can you expect to distinguish between what is and isn't normal?
Earthwindfireandpoop shall be the standard upon which we measure normal.

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#20 Jul 25 2013 at 2:25 PM Rating: Good
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earthwindfirepoop wrote:
Weener pulls out....now that's a headline Democrats can latch on to.


Really. A pull-out joke. That's the best you can do?

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#22 Jul 25 2013 at 2:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Really. A pull-out joke. That's the best you can do?

He could write headlines for the NY Post.
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#23 Jul 25 2013 at 4:42 PM Rating: Decent
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BrownDuck wrote:
Elinda wrote:
I mean come one, *** is a driving force in our species, our societies and surely our leaders (they be virile!). It's rather disingenuous to pretend it's not.


I think the general issue (certainly not mine, IDGAF) is his lack of discretion, a quality valued in leadership.


Well, that and what he's doing is so moronic, one wonders why he's continuing to do so even after suffering negative consequences the first time. I mean, I get someone having an affair. It happens. I get people with drinking or drug problems. But what the **** kind of compulsion must someone have to continue to send pictures and sexually explicit text messages to people? The first time, you could even possibly chalk it up to him being stupid and not realizing that he was using quite possibly the most likely to become public medium in existence to do things that most people might not approve of, while working in an industry where you want people to approve of what you do. Ok. Could just be dumb as a rock. But to continue to do so after losing his job for it the first time?

All he has to do is *not* send sexually explicit pictures and texts. If he's got such a lack of self control that he can't manage that, maybe he's not such a great choice for Mayor (or any position of authority).
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#24 Jul 25 2013 at 4:45 PM Rating: Good
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He's an exhibitionist. He's probably at home getting off right now about the idea that the national media is so interested in his *****.

Not really any different than those girls on Reddit/GW, or the guys on Chat Roulette. Other than he's a politician.
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#25 Jul 25 2013 at 5:10 PM Rating: Decent
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TirithRR wrote:
He's an exhibitionist. He's probably at home getting off right now about the idea that the national media is so interested in his *****.

Not really any different than those girls on Reddit/GW, or the guys on Chat Roulette. Other than he's a politician.


Which is kinda the point.
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#26 Jul 25 2013 at 7:20 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
BrownDuck wrote:
Elinda wrote:
I mean come one, *** is a driving force in our species, our societies and surely our leaders (they be virile!). It's rather disingenuous to pretend it's not.


I think the general issue (certainly not mine, IDGAF) is his lack of discretion, a quality valued in leadership.


Well, that and what he's doing is so moronic, one wonders why he's continuing to do so even after suffering negative consequences the first time. I mean, I get someone having an affair. It happens. I get people with drinking or drug problems. But what the **** kind of compulsion must someone have to continue to send pictures and sexually explicit text messages to people? The first time, you could even possibly chalk it up to him being stupid and not realizing that he was using quite possibly the most likely to become public medium in existence to do things that most people might not approve of, while working in an industry where you want people to approve of what you do. Ok. Could just be dumb as a rock. But to continue to do so after losing his job for it the first time?

All he has to do is *not* send sexually explicit pictures and texts. If he's got such a lack of self control that he can't manage that, maybe he's not such a great choice for Mayor (or any position of authority).


Like I said, lack of discretion. Really doesn't require so many words to define.
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#27 Jul 25 2013 at 8:11 PM Rating: Decent
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BrownDuck wrote:
gbaji wrote:
If he's got such a lack of self control that he can't manage that, maybe he's not such a great choice for Mayor (or any position of authority).


Like I said, lack of discretion. Really doesn't require so many words to define.


Fine. But what I said isn't the same as what you said.. What's wrong isn't that he isn't good at hiding what he's doing, but that what he's doing is moronic and shows a bizarre lack of basic self control.

Edited, Jul 26th 2013 1:11pm by gbaji
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#28 Jul 26 2013 at 6:28 AM Rating: Good
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BrownDuck wrote:
gbaji wrote:
BrownDuck wrote:
Elinda wrote:
I mean come one, *** is a driving force in our species, our societies and surely our leaders (they be virile!). It's rather disingenuous to pretend it's not.


I think the general issue (certainly not mine, IDGAF) is his lack of discretion, a quality valued in leadership.


Well, that and what he's doing is so moronic, one wonders why he's continuing to do so even after suffering negative consequences the first time. I mean, I get someone having an affair. It happens. I get people with drinking or drug problems. But what the **** kind of compulsion must someone have to continue to send pictures and sexually explicit text messages to people? The first time, you could even possibly chalk it up to him being stupid and not realizing that he was using quite possibly the most likely to become public medium in existence to do things that most people might not approve of, while working in an industry where you want people to approve of what you do. Ok. Could just be dumb as a rock. But to continue to do so after losing his job for it the first time?

All he has to do is *not* send sexually explicit pictures and texts. If he's got such a lack of self control that he can't manage that, maybe he's not such a great choice for Mayor (or any position of authority).


Like I said, lack of discretion. Really doesn't require so many words to define.

There is doing the deed and then there is doing the deed secretly or discretely.

Like in 'discretion is the better part of valor'. ie - making thoughtful choices, is a good quality for a law-maker. But simply being good at hiding, covering up or denying stuff is probably a quality a lot of politicians possess but I wouldn't hang a vote on it.

The question I guess I'd pose to myself: Are Wiener's actions, ie - picturesque promiscuity, illegal, immoral or indicative of a trait or characteristic that would make him a bad Mayor?

Another question one might ask I suppose ...Is the ability to cover ones internet trail, or keep a fictional online persona from being linked to oneself, a skill necessary for being Mayor?



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#29 Jul 26 2013 at 7:32 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
I mean, I get someone having an affair. It happens. I get people with drinking or drug problems. But what the **** kind of compulsion must someone have to continue to send pictures and sexually explicit text messages to people?
So adulterers, alcoholics, and drug addicts are understandable, but exhibitionists are where you draw the line?
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#30 Jul 26 2013 at 7:38 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
I mean, I get someone having an affair. It happens. I get people with drinking or drug problems. But what the **** kind of compulsion must someone have to continue to send pictures and sexually explicit text messages to people?
So adulterers, alcoholics, and drug addicts are understandable, but exhibitionists are where you draw the line?

Yeah, so far the exhibitionism seems pretty harmless. Sure, I suppose some folks might find the idea of their young son or daughter receiving or even just seeing pictures of Weiner's wiener repulsive, but I don't think there have been any charges of him porning himself to minors, nor of passing anything more than pictures (no real physical stuff and nothing illegal).
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#31 Jul 26 2013 at 9:34 AM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
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He's an exhibitionist. He's probably at home getting off right now about the idea that the national media is so interested in his *****.

Not really any different than those girls on Reddit/GW, or the guys on Chat Roulette. Other than he's a politician.


Which is kinda the point.


Indeed it is when you live in a country where people care more about what a politician does in their personal lives than they do about a politician's views and political actions.
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#32 Jul 26 2013 at 9:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Yeah, so far the exhibitionism seems pretty harmless. Sure, I suppose some folks might find the idea of their young son or daughter receiving or even just seeing pictures of Weiner's wiener repulsive, but I don't think there have been any charges of him porning himself to minors, nor of passing anything more than pictures (no real physical stuff and nothing illegal).

Sure, but I'd worry about someone in a position of power who has such an easy avenue for blackmail or extortion.

Anyway, he's dropped to around 16% in polling for the mayoral race so it's likely a moot point.
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#33 Jul 26 2013 at 10:06 AM Rating: Good
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Sure, but I'd worry about someone in a position of power who has such an easy avenue for blackmail or extortion.
He's a politician, having an easy avenue for blackmail or extortion is part of the job description.
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#34 Jul 26 2013 at 10:10 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Yeah, so far the exhibitionism seems pretty harmless. Sure, I suppose some folks might find the idea of their young son or daughter receiving or even just seeing pictures of Weiner's wiener repulsive, but I don't think there have been any charges of him porning himself to minors, nor of passing anything more than pictures (no real physical stuff and nothing illegal).

Sure, but I'd worry about someone in a position of power who has such an easy avenue for blackmail or extortion.

Anyway, he's dropped to around 16% in polling for the mayoral race so it's likely a moot point.


Comes to the same thing, really. It's only a problem because of public perception that it should be a problem.

As far as I know, Weiner never broke any laws here, and to the best of my knowledge none of the pictures were sent to unwilling recipients. But I never followed the original scandal, so I could be wrong there.
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#35 Jul 26 2013 at 10:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Comes to the same thing, really. It's only a problem because of public perception that it should be a problem.

So what? I mean, once someone gets the magic wand that makes large scale changes to public perception we won't have to worry about it any longer. Until then it's a liability. It's not an immediate question of whether or not it should be an issue, it's the fact that it is an issue in this modern world.
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#36 Jul 26 2013 at 10:20 AM Rating: Good
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I don't think blackmail would work on the guy. He'd out himself before paying someone to keep quiet.

I think Tony should scrap politics and create a line of collectible, tradeable wiener cards. He could add other infamous crotch shots, maybe some well know cleavage. You could even make them into a playable card game if you could hit on a fun theme.

This way he could satisfy his exhibitionism, create something useless but tangible and also insure his wiener is not forgotten after he's gone.
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#37 Jul 26 2013 at 10:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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#38 Jul 26 2013 at 10:27 AM Rating: Good
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#39 Jul 26 2013 at 10:34 AM Rating: Good
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I don't think blackmail is a realistic fear with Weiner. Is anyone surprised that this happened a second time? He didn't even bother denying it. Didn't he say that something would be coming out before it happened?
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#40 Jul 26 2013 at 10:41 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Yeah, so far the exhibitionism seems pretty harmless. Sure, I suppose some folks might find the idea of their young son or daughter receiving or even just seeing pictures of Weiner's wiener repulsive, but I don't think there have been any charges of him porning himself to minors, nor of passing anything more than pictures (no real physical stuff and nothing illegal).

Sure, but I'd worry about someone in a position of power who has such an easy avenue for blackmail or extortion.

Anyway, he's dropped to around 16% in polling for the mayoral race so it's likely a moot point.


Comes to the same thing, really. It's only a problem because of public perception that it should be a problem.

As far as I know, Weiner never broke any laws here, and to the best of my knowledge none of the pictures were sent to unwilling recipients. But I never followed the original scandal, so I could be wrong there.


The original Tweet that took him out of office the first time was not intended for unwilling recipients, but was accidentally posted on his public Twitter feed. So.... anyone who followed him and read Twitter for a few minutes after it was posted (but before it was removed frantically) got a nice crotch shot, and I'm sure a lot of his constituents didn't really want to see that. Smiley: laugh
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#41 Jul 26 2013 at 10:46 AM Rating: Good
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Sure, but that's not really all that different from a wardrobe malfunction. An unfortunate accident, but not particularly blameworthy. At least not above and beyond sending the picture in the first place.
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#42 Jul 26 2013 at 2:25 PM Rating: Default
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
I mean, I get someone having an affair. It happens. I get people with drinking or drug problems. But what the **** kind of compulsion must someone have to continue to send pictures and sexually explicit text messages to people?
So adulterers, alcoholics, and drug addicts are understandable, but exhibitionists are where you draw the line?


They are understandable compulsions in general. *** is a powerful biological drive. Addictions create similarly powerful compulsions for the substance one is addicted to. These are the kinds of things one might get caught doing, suffer some negative consequences, yet still have a hard time stopping doing afterward. But what he's doing is so specific and so much *not* a broad compulsion one might normally expect, that it does fall into the realm of "bizarre".

And I'm not talking about exhibition in general. If we were, it would actually be worse, since exhibitionism as a fetish usually does involve exposing yourself in some way to strangers and in public places. That's the thrill of it. What he's doing isn't exactly exhibitionism (assuming all the folks he's sending stuff to actually don't mind versus just haven't said anything cause they don't want to rock the political boat), but it is strange as ****. And as I've said a couple times now, it isn't really just about what he was doing, but his apparent inability to stop doing it that is the problem. Poor impulse control is *not* a good quality in any politician. Doubly so those with some sort of executive power.
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#43 Jul 26 2013 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
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I'd call what he is doing exhibitionism. I think visibly exposing yourself in public is only a part of exhibitionism. You have the type who openly expose themselves to people. You have the type that enjoy removing articles of clothing or exposing parts of their body, but remaining undetected while in public. You have the type that enjoys being naked or exposed in an open or public area but no one around to be caught. Now with the internet you have the type that enjoys exposing themselves to usually willing strangers.
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#44 Jul 26 2013 at 3:40 PM Rating: Decent
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TirithRR wrote:
I'd call what he is doing exhibitionism. I think visibly exposing yourself in public is only a part of exhibitionism. You have the type who openly expose themselves to people. You have the type that enjoy removing articles of clothing or exposing parts of their body, but remaining undetected while in public. You have the type that enjoys being naked or exposed in an open or public area but no one around to be caught.


Key point being that the thrill of exhibitionism is the risk of being caught. Which is inherently problematic to a public figure.

Quote:
Now with the internet you have the type that enjoys exposing themselves to usually willing strangers.


If they're actually strangers, how do you know they're willing? Obviously, none of us know exactly what's going through Weiner's mind when he does this, or what his motivation is. It could range anywhere from playful "private" (haha) joking with friends of his, to a semi-destructive need to engage in behavior he knows he'll eventually get caught doing and "punished" for (hey. who knows, right?). It could also be indicative of potentially escalating sexual harassment behavior enabled (even if just in his own mind) by women around him who may not want to report what he's doing for fear of hurting his (or her!) career. When someone in a position of authority over others engages in behavior like this, it can get very very ugly. When it's not reported and/or punished, women are often put in a position of fear that they shouldn't say anything about it. And that sometimes results in the man escalating the behavior beyond the relatively harmless stuff we're seeing.


Of course, part of my perception about this could certainly be influenced by the current issues with our wonderful Mayor here in San Diego. Filner has a long history of being an "in your face" kind of guy. He gets into people's personal space, presumably as a power/intimidation technique. By itself, not too problematic, but it's a behavior that has apparently lead to him thinking that women who don't sufficient pull away when he puts them in his now famous "Filner headlock" are therefor amenable to some escalation of a relationship with him, leading him to where he is now. It's something that probably developed over years and years (decades actually) in public office, and was absolutely enabled because women who he did this too didn't come forward and say anything about it initially, then the behavior just got accepted, and it escalated until it was very far past anything remotely acceptable.

When these kinds of things come to light and everyone stands around wondering how the **** someone in that public a position could have gotten so habitual and open about behavior like that, it's because of people excusing earlier instances of the behavior allowing it to get to that point. The kind of things that Weiner is doing should be a huge flashing warning sign in this regard. Sure we could argue it's harmless today, when he's relatively young and fit and whatnot. After all, what woman wouldn't want to be blessed with receiving a picture of his junk, right? Pretty sexist assumption, but that's basically what we're saying here if we excuse this behavior. It's where it leads down the road that's the problem.


I guess what I find really ironic about these sorts of things, is that in the private field, we're required to take sexual harassment training. Managers take some fairly ridiculously extensive training. It's drilled into you not just not to do stuff like this, but to not ever be in a position or doing something that someone could even interpret as a sexual advance or even just making them uncomfortable. Yet it seems like politicians, many of whom are lobbied to regarding and involved in the creation of these stringent rules that businesses must adhere to, seem to believe they themselves are immune. Those rules apparently apply to "other people" and not to them. I think we should hold our politicians to at least the same standards that we hold managers and executives in the private market to. So no, I don't think we can or should excuse this sort of thing.
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#45 Jul 26 2013 at 3:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Yet it seems like politicians, many of whom are lobbied to regarding and involved in the creation of these stringent rules that businesses must adhere to, seem to believe they themselves are immune. Those rules apparently apply to "other people" and not to them.

Those rules DO apply to "other people" and NOT to them, so it's not like it's a delusion. Also, contrary to the white man blood libel panic du jour, it's STILL fairly difficult to make a successful sexual harassment claim without overwhelming evidence.
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#46 Jul 26 2013 at 4:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:
Yet it seems like politicians, many of whom are lobbied to regarding and involved in the creation of these stringent rules that businesses must adhere to, seem to believe they themselves are immune. Those rules apparently apply to "other people" and not to them.

Those rules DO apply to "other people" and NOT to them, so it's not like it's a delusion. Also, contrary to the white man blood libel panic du jour, it's STILL fairly difficult to make a successful sexual harassment claim without overwhelming evidence.


It's incredibly easy to make a claim. It's hard to prove the claim true sufficiently to result in some kind of actual legal action. My point is that in the private sector this often doesn't matter. The mere presence of a claim does harm, so companies will take action to (at the least) remove those who have claims made against them from positions of authority over other people in the company, so as to prevent future claims. In the public sector the rule seems to be to just look the other way and to threaten any women who mention it that since they can't prove what happened their careers will be ruined if they don't just keep their mouths shut and toe the party line. The point that Filner illustrates is that this perpetuates the problem and it grows worse until there's a veritable avalanche of women who've been mistreated and (finally) come forward. Cause it takes that much before folks will realize that there's something wrong.


I'm suggesting that looking the other way at the early warning signs of this sort of behavior is probably not a good idea. That's not to say that Weiner will escalate to that sort of behavior, but more that it's a bad indicator and perhaps we should look to folks who don't do this sort of things to be put in positions of power.

Edited, Jul 26th 2013 3:01pm by gbaji
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#47 Jul 26 2013 at 4:32 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
I mean, I get someone having an affair. It happens. I get people with drinking or drug problems. But what the **** kind of compulsion must someone have to continue to send pictures and sexually explicit text messages to people?
So adulterers, alcoholics, and drug addicts are understandable, but exhibitionists are where you draw the line?


They are understandable compulsions in general. *** is a powerful biological drive. Addictions create similarly powerful compulsions for the substance one is addicted to. These are the kinds of things one might get caught doing, suffer some negative consequences, yet still have a hard time stopping doing afterward. But what he's doing is so specific and so much *not* a broad compulsion one might normally expect, that it does fall into the realm of "bizarre".

And I'm not talking about exhibition in general. If we were, it would actually be worse, since exhibitionism as a fetish usually does involve exposing yourself in some way to strangers and in public places. That's the thrill of it. What he's doing isn't exactly exhibitionism (assuming all the folks he's sending stuff to actually don't mind versus just haven't said anything cause they don't want to rock the political boat), but it is strange as ****. And as I've said a couple times now, it isn't really just about what he was doing, but his apparent inability to stop doing it that is the problem. Poor impulse control is *not* a good quality in any politician. Doubly so those with some sort of executive power.


Except that's not how compulsive disorders work (assuming that's what Weiner has). And, while compulsive disorders are the most common true diagnoses of "*** addictions," it's very rare that so-called addictions even reach that point.

In reality, most people who have a "*** addiction" are likely just poly-amorous individuals attempting to live a monogamous lifestyle. They're seeking an outlet for pent-up sexual stress, and that can mean a huge number of things. If their *** drive is relatively low, **** might be sufficient to keep them from developing undue stress elsewhere in life. But maybe they need to go out and sleep with 10 prostitutes a week.

That's not a compulsive disorder. It's a reaction to not having their needs met due to living a lifestyle that doesn't suit their sexuality. It's little different from a *** man in a straight marriage cheating on his wife. His lifestyle choices didn't meld with his sexuality.

Most sexual manifestations of compulsive disorders stem from childhood abuse (not necessarily sexual), and are most commonly seen co-occurring with substance abuse disorders. Occasionally, you'll see someone with neither of those factors, who just had their compulsive disorder add *** onto its list of triggers due to the dopamine cycle input. But it's extremely rare, and it still tends to be expressed far more intensely than this.

Sexual expression as a result of a compulsive disorder isn't due to sexual relief, it's due to the relief of the compulsion. Because of the relationship of the dopamine cycle and disorder formation, it's highly unlikely *** will become a compulsive act without the additional factors of childhood or substance abuse, which will aid in the creation of emotional, chemical, and environmental triggers to your compulsion.

Weiner is well aware of what he's doing. He doesn't care, because reduced sexual stress by acting this way in the present emotionally pales in comparison to increased stress in all areas of his life by not releasing it. If he had a polygamous lifestyle, it would be a non-issue. I'm guessing, from his trend of actually courting these women (however short), that he'd actually prefer multiple serious partners. Either way, it's not possible for a modern politician.
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#48 Jul 26 2013 at 4:45 PM Rating: Decent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Except that's not how compulsive disorders work (assuming that's what Weiner has). And, while compulsive disorders are the most common true diagnoses of "*** addictions," it's very rare that so-called addictions even reach that point.


Eh? Don't really want to argue definitions and whatnot. I'm using a more common/broad use of the term "addiction", which refers most to a behavior that causes you harm yet you continue doing it even after suffering that harm (like say having to resign from your political position). His behavior absolutely fits that model, and that's what I'm talking about.

Quote:
Sexual expression as a result of a compulsive disorder isn't due to sexual relief, it's due to the relief of the compulsion.


I'm just covering the bases. If this is a compulsion, then it's a compulsion and indicates a lack of self control, as I indicated earlier. And it's problematic for that reason. If the motivation is some kind of escalation of intimacy with those to which he's sending pictures, then it's problematic for the reasons I wrote about in my last post.

In either case, it's a problem for someone seeking a position of power over others to have.

Quote:
Weiner is well aware of what he's doing. He doesn't care, because reduced sexual stress by acting this way in the present emotionally pales in comparison to increased stress in all areas of his life by not releasing it. If he had a polygamous lifestyle, it would be a non-issue. I'm guessing, from his trend of actually courting these women (however short), that he'd actually prefer multiple serious partners. Either way, it's not possible for a modern politician.


Sure. Assuming this is actually a surrogate behavior for a desire to be polygamous. I think that's a stretch though. As I mentioned earlier, there are a whole range of different reasons for why he's doing this. We can't just assume that this is friendly semi-sexual behavior only engaged in with women with whom he'd be involved in openly and directly if only our society wasn't so prudish about such things. Doing so ignores a whole host of other far more problematic possibilities, and I think it's dangerous to do that. Also, the reality is that he does live in a society that values monogamy, and he's seeking to become a political leader within that society. Fair or not, those are the rules he's supposed to comply with. If he wants to pursue a career as say a sexual self help guru, or author, or new age herbalist, or nearly anything other than high profile public figure, he's completely free to explore whatever relationships he wants. If it's that important to him, perhaps he should do that instead of politics?
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#49 Jul 26 2013 at 5:05 PM Rating: Good
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By all means, continue to call a relatively normal behavior an addiction if it means you can overreact and discuss all the dangers of a leader with a compulsive disorder.

The reality is that the vast majority of *** "addictions" are just people with polyamorous sexualities attempting to live monogamous lifestyles. Specifically speaking of people society would typically claim have a *** "addiction."

A small subset of those people will have compulsive disorders, and a much smaller subset of them will have compulsive disorders that link to their sexual expression. The vast majority will be poly individuals approaching their normal behavior, which is problematic in the confines of a monogamous relationship.

To just assume Weiner belongs to that group with the amount of information we have is absurd. Even taking the facts we have now - that he has been continuing to send nude pictures of himself to women - into account, the amount of evidence you'd need to make anything approaching a reasonable inductive leap to sexual compulsion is immense.

You obviously don't have to believe me here, but this actually is the field I work in.

He could still be an exhibitionist. But it's not a compulsion. They are not linked. Exhibitionism is a relation to what is seen as a normal expression of sexuality, not to whether or not such an expression is something you MUST do. Even if it's something you must do to receive sexual relief, that's still not grounds for ruling it a compulsion.
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#50 Jul 26 2013 at 5:26 PM Rating: Default
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
By all means, continue to call a relatively normal behavior an addiction if it means you can overreact and discuss all the dangers of a leader with a compulsive disorder.


A. It's not relatively normal behavior. If it was, there wouldn't be any uproar over it.

B. Regardless of what we call it, when someone continues to engage in behavior that has proved harmful to them in the past, it shows that they have some kind of problem stopping doing that behavior. Call it compulsion, addiction, or whatever, it's still indicates a problem with Weiner in that one thing he likes to do (sending sexually explicit pictures and texts) is interfering with his ability to do something else he wants to do (run for and hold public office).


Quote:
To just assume Weiner belongs to that group with the amount of information we have is absurd. Even taking the facts we have now - that he has been continuing to send nude pictures of himself to women - into account, the amount of evidence you'd need to make anything approaching a reasonable inductive leap to sexual compulsion is immense.


Um... Regardless of what we call it, he clearly has a problem stopping engaging in behavior that is harmful to him professionally, even after already being caught and suffering a serious harmful effect (loss of job). We can quibble over the exact terminology, but it doesn't change that basic fact. Changing the label you use doesn't change what something is.

Quote:
You obviously don't have to believe me here, but this actually is the field I work in.


And? What useful course of action should Weiner pursue here then? Because insisting that the rest of the world change itself to suit him isn't likely to work.

Quote:
He could still be an exhibitionist. But it's not a compulsion. They are not linked.


Of course they aren't. I'm also not the one who even mentioned exhibition initially. I called what he's did a compulsion because it appears he's unable to not do it. What the **** definition do you use for compulsion, Mr. "This is the field I work in"? I mean, if we assume his past outcome as a direct result of his behavior is something he wants to avoid, he has two courses of action:

1. Don't pursue a career in a field in which that behavior will result in the negative outcome.

2. Stop the behavior.

He's chosen to pursue the same career, while still engaging in the same behavior the caused negative career effects before. So yeah, I think there's something wrong with someone who can't see that this is a problem. Whatever you want to call it, it's a problem. And it's a problem with *him*, not everyone else.


Quote:
Exhibitionism is a relation to what is seen as a normal expression of sexuality, not to whether or not such an expression is something you MUST do. Even if it's something you must do to receive sexual relief, that's still not grounds for ruling it a compulsion.


I never said that exhibitionism and compulsion are one and the same. ****. I didn't even call what he was doing exhibitionism in the first place. I agree, that there are elements of that to what he's doing, but as I've said before, we have no way of knowing for sure what his motivations are, or what he gets out of this. What we can say for sure is that what he's doing is something that he enjoys doing. So much so that he is continuing to do so even when it's harmful to his chosen career.

That's the angle I'm looking at. Hence, why I said at the very beginning that it indicates a lack of self control on his part. Was that wrong? I don't think so.

Edited, Jul 26th 2013 4:28pm by gbaji
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#51 Jul 26 2013 at 5:32 PM Rating: Default
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Anyone who buys into the whole *** addition stuff should watch the South Park episode on this topic. http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s14e01-sexual-healing

I can't professionally speak on it; however, from personal experiences, we are all people with "animal instincts" that are tamed by our will not act out on those feelings.
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